Guild Wars 2

This whole system is so flawed. How can a tournament system be taken seriously when a server can actually place 2nd in a match-up and end up placing higher in rank as a result? Garbage scenarios like these are what end up killing a community, something many people play for.

The options SBI faces are, place 2nd this week and have a chance at placing 2nd or 4th at the end of the tournament.

Or place 1st this week and have a chance of placing 4th or 5th at the end of the tournament.

Eh, I don’t know what you talking about… Let’s see the options:

We have HoD (35), FA and YB (23), SBI, IoJ and CD (21), CD and NSP (19) and SoR (7)

Let’s maintain the scenario that HoD gonna win and YB is banging FA to stay in second.

If SBI wins, we’ll have: HoD (40), SBI and YB (26), FA, IoJ and BP (24), CD and NSP (22) and SoR (8).

In HoD/SBI/YB we belive that SBI will lose ending the season with 27 pts. Which mean SBI will be tied with IoJ and CD at 27. (SBI have more rating than both, so for tie breaking, we’ll assume SBI will be 4th)

If SBI end second, we’ll have FA/SBI/BP, which we belive FA will win. Which would end in SBI having 27 pts, ending up in 4th aswell…

I don’t belive SBI can beat YB in a matchup with HoD, and I don’t belive SBI can defeat FA. Your chances of getting second are slim at best and sincerely you have more chance if you go up against YB, since HoD is kinda off-balance now since they already have the season in the bag.

You scenario will only work if HoD continue to lose (which aparently is unlikely, as they already catch up with YB/FA).

No he’s right for numerous matchups.

same goes to for BP and NSP. winner of those two will have tough time getting 27 points next week, while the loser can have a crack at beating CD and take 27 .

choices… choices..choices….

It is very silly and poorly designed….. Tomorrow’s return of 2 popular LS chapters may actually decide the fate for PVX servers…..

The predictions/calculations which indicated SBI could ultimately place higher in the final ranking by intentionally playing for 2nd in round 8 were done several days ago, before FA unexpectedly dropped a tier and changed the possible outcomes. So yes, at least before FA dropped a tier, SBI had a better chance at a higher final ranking by intentionally “losing” week 8 in order to draw an easier matchup in the final week, instead of an extremely tough one. At least that’s my recollection of what the number crunchers said. (I’m too lazy to do the math, and prefer to just play to win.)

YB’s double-teaming of FA with HoD’s help seems to be towards the goal of pushing SBI down to 4th or 5th. Not real sure what’s going on there.

azizul.8469:

same goes to for BP and NSP. winner of those two will have tough time getting 27 points next week, while the loser can have a crack at beating CD and take 27 .

choices… choices..choices….

Exactly. And though no one cares about the sham that’s the actual ranking, it’s going to be a big deal for a lot of casual WvW players:

The loser this week has a chance for the 27 points and a tie for 5th… which means if there are no tie-breakers (by the way, unbelievable that we don’t know whether this is the case), they’ll get enough tickets for a reward weapon. The winner this week will end up being tied for 7th — and won’t get enough tickets.

The sad thing is that a few simple simulations of this tournament format would easily have shown this type of situation to be extremely likely. But Anet, as usual, didn’t bother.

actually 27 points will earn the servers 4th place (assuming no tie breaker) , provided HoD does not come third this week and next week.

This whole format is a joke.

Just like how when a server loses in tier1 they get 1 point, they drop tier2 and win easily and they get 5 points. They are then keeping up with the servers thats constantly in tier1 and getting 2nd place against a super-stacked nr1 monster.

And now we have a hilarious situation where BB and Riverside both want to be holding back so their glicko rating is lower then the other. Whoever has a lower glicko rating will next week, last week, get to stomp tier2 for easy 5 points instead of fight in tier1 and risk getting but 1 point and likely no more then 3.

Then the worst server is being rewarded with a higher rating because they got much easier matchups.

People in BP realized that. There was almost noone playing yesterday night. There’s a genuine chance that we’ll let NSP win this week, even with the large advantage we’ve got. That’s just stupid.

Just before S1 ANET changed the league format (#s for Gold/Silver/Bronze)…Prior to S2 they changed the scoring format and forgot about evaluating how it affects leagues regarding the previous change.

Perhaps the best way would have been eliminating Gold/Silver/Bronze and just made the tourny 9 weeks of swiss style scoring through all servers.

bob.8632:

Just before S1 ANET changed the league format (#s for Gold/Silver/Bronze)…Prior to S2 they changed the scoring format and forgot about evaluating how it affects leagues regarding the previous change.

Perhaps the best way would have been eliminating Gold/Silver/Bronze and just made the tourny 9 weeks of swiss style scoring through all servers.

Except then you have Bronze league going up against JQ and TC. There’s no way the bronze servers would even get close to winning, not because theyre less skilled, but because coverage

yanniell.1236:

People in BP realized that. There was almost noone playing yesterday night. There’s a genuine chance that we’ll let NSP win this week, even with the large advantage we’ve got. That’s just stupid.

Eh… I think the problem for BP right now is that we’ve played this same matchup literally for half of the tournament. It’s not that we’re trying to let NSP win… it’s that we simply don’t really care anymore. Win or lose, we will still finish in a poor overall standing in the tournament. Realize this. If we (BP) win this week, and place third next week, we get 6 points. If we finish second this week, and then second again next week we get… 6… points. Hmmm… No sense in putting in overtime in WvW just to get the same amount of points no matter what in the last 2 weeks. I’ll play for fights and loot bags, not for PPT or for this silly tournament format.

TL;DR: BP isn’t letting NSP win. It simply doesn’t matter if we actually win or not, so we’re playing for fun, not for tournament standing.

bob.8632:

Perhaps the best way would have been eliminating Gold/Silver/Bronze and just made the tourny 9 weeks of swiss style scoring through all servers.

I think a shortened season with win move up lose move down would suffice. This way T6 servers aren’t facing T1 servers and while it have some ambiguity in the results they would be pretty minor by comparison to the current system.

godz raiden.2631:

yanniell.1236:

People in BP realized that. There was almost noone playing yesterday night. There’s a genuine chance that we’ll let NSP win this week, even with the large advantage we’ve got. That’s just stupid.

Eh… I think the problem for BP right now is that we’ve played this same matchup literally for half of the tournament. It’s not that we’re trying to let NSP win… it’s that we simply don’t really care anymore. Win or lose, we will still finish in a poor overall standing in the tournament. Realize this. If we (BP) win this week, and place third next week, we get 6 points. If we finish second this week, and then second again next week we get… 6… points. Hmmm… No sense in putting in overtime in WvW just to get the same amount of points no matter what in the last 2 weeks. I’ll play for fights and loot bags, not for PPT or for this silly tournament format.

TL;DR: BP isn’t letting NSP win. It simply doesn’t matter if we actually win or not, so we’re playing for fun, not for tournament standing.

I don’t think anyone cares about tournament standing. Rewards, however, people do care about….

The loser of this week has a chance of getting enough tickets for a reward weapon (if they beat CD next week) while the winner has practically zero chance.

^^^

15 char and stuff

Well then it would be silly of NSP to push and win this week considering they’re already behind us (BP). That is if they care about reward. So either way, one server ends up “manipulating” the next matchup in their favor. It’s all very silly

yeah but it will be the cheap with a better format

Terrahero.9358:

This whole format is a joke.

And now we have a hilarious situation where BB and Riverside both want to be holding back so their glicko rating is lower then the other. Whoever has a lower glicko rating will next week, last week, get to stomp tier2 for easy 5 points instead of fight in tier1 and risk getting but 1 point and likely no more then 3.

Yea.. such a bad format really, BB is setfor an easier match-up and will probably get 5 points in the final week, while SFR might stop slacking next week so Deso will end up joint 2nd all because of how the Swiss Style system is working.

But still Deso should be proud in many ways no matter what position we end up in, even though Gold League is not the standard like last season.

Carpboy.7145:

bob.8632:

Just before S1 ANET changed the league format (#s for Gold/Silver/Bronze)…Prior to S2 they changed the scoring format and forgot about evaluating how it affects leagues regarding the previous change.

Perhaps the best way would have been eliminating Gold/Silver/Bronze and just made the tourny 9 weeks of swiss style scoring through all servers.

Except then you have Bronze league going up against JQ and TC. There’s no way the bronze servers would even get close to winning, not because theyre less skilled, but because coverage

Straegen.2938:

bob.8632:

Perhaps the best way would have been eliminating Gold/Silver/Bronze and just made the tourny 9 weeks of swiss style scoring through all servers.

I think a shortened season with win move up lose move down would suffice. This way T6 servers aren’t facing T1 servers and while it have some ambiguity in the results they would be pretty minor by comparison to the current system.

Do you understand how this system works?? How in God’s name would Bronze be facing Gold? It is (more or less) winner move up, loser move down….So you are assuming the mighty Bronze servers full of tumble weeds and uplevels are going to move through Bronze, then Silver, then end up at Gold???

Anet screwed up with the rankings. Second place is worth less than half of first place.

A 4-2-1 system would be better. That way, a first place and last place finish beats 2 second place finishes 5-4.

bob.8632:

Carpboy.7145:

bob.8632:

Just before S1 ANET changed the league format (#s for Gold/Silver/Bronze)…Prior to S2 they changed the scoring format and forgot about evaluating how it affects leagues regarding the previous change.

Perhaps the best way would have been eliminating Gold/Silver/Bronze and just made the tourny 9 weeks of swiss style scoring through all servers.

Except then you have Bronze league going up against JQ and TC. There’s no way the bronze servers would even get close to winning, not because theyre less skilled, but because coverage

Straegen.2938:

bob.8632:

Perhaps the best way would have been eliminating Gold/Silver/Bronze and just made the tourny 9 weeks of swiss style scoring through all servers.

I think a shortened season with win move up lose move down would suffice. This way T6 servers aren’t facing T1 servers and while it have some ambiguity in the results they would be pretty minor by comparison to the current system.

Do you understand how this system works?? How in God’s name would Bronze be facing Gold? It is (more or less) winner move up, loser move down….So you are assuming the mighty Bronze servers full of tumble weeds and uplevels are going to move through Bronze, then Silver, then end up at Gold???

So what happens the first few weeks as its sorting itself out?

The only system I can see that would ever see even match-ups across the board (by even I mean coverage) is to have a system that’s entirely based on factions or colors. We have 3 factions in the game and 3 colors, base a system on that create multiple maps of each borderland and EB and the numbers should always be relatively even.

If it’s matched strictly on colors, and colors are given a name (I’ll use factions because we already have those in game, it would probably be the best scenario.

If we are using this week’s current match up, and using Green as an example. Lets call Green: Order of Whispers. All the current green teams are lumped into 1 team:

Tarnished Coast
Sea of Sorrows
Henge of Denravi
Stormbluff Isle
Borlis Pass
Gates of Madness
Sorrows Furnace
Anvil Rock

Some are probably going to ask why having all the green teams on 1 team is fair but it doesn’t matter at this point. We’ll probably have at least 4-5 fully que’d maps at any given time where it’s actually 100vs100vs100. As we know that coverage is king and coverage no longer is an issue at this point.

As long as Anet allows people to que for specific instances of maps as to allow guild runs and friends to play together, it shouldn’t be a problem.

On the same token, as long as they also implement a system where a new instance of a map can’t form unless there is at least 20 on each side, we can also avoid having blow out maps. That way people remain in a que until either a map is free’d up or enough people join each side to form a new map.

Now take what i’ve said above and form that into a tournament. Even under the current Swiss style it should be fine (even though I don’t like the format of it)

And before the powers that be label this a matchup thread, it is not one. We’re not saying who is better or why, we are asking a very basic and important set of questions.

There has to be a better way to put servers together that are not too overpowered but still have huge diversity in server fights. I can think of one , just one, NA/EU/China in the same leagues – rising or falling in their “tier”.

I can’t do the math in my head but having more than 12 servers in each league would make it much more of a competition.

There are only six teams in NA Gold – doesn’t that strike anyone as a bit strange when all others in NA have 9, it doesn’t make sense and it doens’t give the player pool enough to keep it fresh.

Just because it’s gold doens’t mean there aren’t more than just the six that belong in that category. All categories, Gold, Silver and Bronze should have the same number of servers to be an equitible and serviceable season.

The math for the wins and losses bear out that some are losing to win – period – and in doing so make a mockery of a very flawed “matchup system”.

Carpboy.7145:

bob.8632:

Carpboy.7145:

bob.8632:

Just before S1 ANET changed the league format (#s for Gold/Silver/Bronze)…Prior to S2 they changed the scoring format and forgot about evaluating how it affects leagues regarding the previous change.

Perhaps the best way would have been eliminating Gold/Silver/Bronze and just made the tourny 9 weeks of swiss style scoring through all servers.

Except then you have Bronze league going up against JQ and TC. There’s no way the bronze servers would even get close to winning, not because theyre less skilled, but because coverage

Straegen.2938:

bob.8632:

Perhaps the best way would have been eliminating Gold/Silver/Bronze and just made the tourny 9 weeks of swiss style scoring through all servers.

I think a shortened season with win move up lose move down would suffice. This way T6 servers aren’t facing T1 servers and while it have some ambiguity in the results they would be pretty minor by comparison to the current system.

Do you understand how this system works?? How in God’s name would Bronze be facing Gold? It is (more or less) winner move up, loser move down….So you are assuming the mighty Bronze servers full of tumble weeds and uplevels are going to move through Bronze, then Silver, then end up at Gold???

So what happens the first few weeks as its sorting itself out?

I really am shocked I have to explain this….

1-24, matchups are the same as they would normally be. (1-3, 4-6, 7-10, etc). Swiss system kicks in, servers like HoD (with their xfer pop) climb. Servers like SoR (with their evacuated pop) fall…Now instead of HoD being locked in the top of Silver for 6+ weeks, they are able to move into T2. And likewise other servers are able to fall/move up and the matches would likely begin to level around week 2-4ish. But instead of having the same matches every other week, now at least you have the hope of SOME variation along the way. (IE: another server dropping/climbing into the off-week match).

Sorry HoD was not in Bronze. Going to have to answer the bold question with a “it would never happen”.

kRAVen.4195:

Sorry HoD was not in Bronze. Going to have to answer the bold question with a “it would never happen”.

Names of servers do not really matter, the point was and still is, that the scoring system applied in S2 would have been better served with more servers in the pool.