Guild Wars 2

We have been stuck in this same matchup since the middle of July. For more than three months now, the same three servers.

This has become a real game spoiler. We feel like we know all our opponents, what builds they run, their tactics, etc. It is getting quite tiring to play against the same servers for such a long time.

MAG guilds have even tried taking breaks to intentionally lose multiple rounds, hoping that one of the other servers would move out and it doesn’t work. A lot of players are venting about it in team chat. Please fix this.

well, that was what the fight guilds wanted, was not it ? making T3 fight tier ?

LOL this is what the fight guilds want

Saleen Jso.2645:

We have been stuck in this same matchup since the middle of July. For more than three months now, the same three servers.

This has become a real game spoiler. We feel like we know all our opponents, what builds they run, their tactics, etc. It is getting quite tiring to play against the same servers for such a long time.

MAG guilds have even tried taking breaks to intentionally lose multiple rounds, hoping that one of the other servers would move out and it doesn’t work. A lot of players are venting about it in team chat. Please fix this.

Maybe they should talk to (the server overlord) Xushin about their frustrations.

Game the system for long enough and the system ends up gaming you.

This isn’t unique to your tier. It’s part of the overarching problem with how WvW works. There’s relatively little movement within the brackets.

I hate to break to the random Mag OP, but we locked this matchup in on purpose…And it was done well before the fight guilds xferred down to T3. It was done with the help of SBI in the beginning as well, and included sending guilds toward SBI instead of Maguuma at the early stages. This was all done to avoid the kittenshow going on in T2.

For every person saying “stale matchup” there were 30 saying “lock the tier”. TBH no one from Mag is playing right now until HoT, and they really haven’t been for about 3 weeks. It just so happens that SBI’s Korean contingent have decided to pull 12+ hour days playing a (even more than normal) meaningless matchup. That has added to the random pugs frustration I would guess.

Also no guilds (of note) took any time off “hoping that one of the other servers would move out”; they took time off 1st to help lock the tier and prevent anyone from slipping into T2, and 2nd (lately) because WvW really doesn’t matter with HoT right around the corner.

bob.8632:

I hate to break to the random Mag OP, but we locked this matchup in on purpose…And it was done well before the fight guilds xferred down to T3. It was done with the help of SBI in the beginning as well, and included sending guilds toward SBI instead of Maguuma at the early stages. This was all done to avoid the kittenshow going on in T2.

For every person saying “stale matchup” there were 30 saying “lock the tier”. TBH no one from Mag is playing right now until HoT, and they really haven’t been for about 3 weeks. It just so happens that SBI’s Korean contingent have decided to pull 12+ hour days playing a (even more than normal) meaningless matchup. That has added to the random pugs frustration I would guess.

Also no guilds (of note) took any time off “hoping that one of the other servers would move out”; they took time off 1st to help lock the tier and prevent anyone from slipping into T2, and 2nd (lately) because WvW really doesn’t matter with HoT right around the corner.

Well to be fair it isnt just our koreans. In NA prime time Mag is usually the only server in the group without a real group running. I mean when CD is fielding more players then you, then break status achieved! Heck we tried doing a guild run last night with 15 people. On mag bl we took bay 2 towers and citadel. Just hoping some sort of force would show up to defend or fight. How many mag showed up? 2. 1 of which was afk in the citadel. We messed around for another 15 minutes then gave up.

No biggie like you said wvw doesnt matter now (if it ever does) so it is all good. Just a bit boring. Not many guilds are really running so the blob war is in full effect!

Wryscher.1432:

bob.8632:

I hate to break to the random Mag OP, but we locked this matchup in on purpose…And it was done well before the fight guilds xferred down to T3. It was done with the help of SBI in the beginning as well, and included sending guilds toward SBI instead of Maguuma at the early stages. This was all done to avoid the kittenshow going on in T2.

For every person saying “stale matchup” there were 30 saying “lock the tier”. TBH no one from Mag is playing right now until HoT, and they really haven’t been for about 3 weeks. It just so happens that SBI’s Korean contingent have decided to pull 12+ hour days playing a (even more than normal) meaningless matchup. That has added to the random pugs frustration I would guess.

Also no guilds (of note) took any time off “hoping that one of the other servers would move out”; they took time off 1st to help lock the tier and prevent anyone from slipping into T2, and 2nd (lately) because WvW really doesn’t matter with HoT right around the corner.

Well to be fair it isnt just our koreans. In NA prime time Mag is usually the only server in the group without a real group running. I mean when CD is fielding more players then you, then break status achieved! Heck we tried doing a guild run last night with 15 people. On mag bl we took bay 2 towers and citadel. Just hoping some sort of force would show up to defend or fight. How many mag showed up? 2. 1 of which was afk in the citadel. We messed around for another 15 minutes then gave up.

No biggie like you said wvw doesnt matter now (if it ever does) so it is all good. Just a bit boring. Not many guilds are really running so the blob war is in full effect!

Wait…. you took their citadel? Sorry I missed out on that.

Bored of your match?
1000 gems. Problem solved.

Puck.9612:

Wryscher.1432:

bob.8632:

I hate to break to the random Mag OP, but we locked this matchup in on purpose…And it was done well before the fight guilds xferred down to T3. It was done with the help of SBI in the beginning as well, and included sending guilds toward SBI instead of Maguuma at the early stages. This was all done to avoid the kittenshow going on in T2.

For every person saying “stale matchup” there were 30 saying “lock the tier”. TBH no one from Mag is playing right now until HoT, and they really haven’t been for about 3 weeks. It just so happens that SBI’s Korean contingent have decided to pull 12+ hour days playing a (even more than normal) meaningless matchup. That has added to the random pugs frustration I would guess.

Also no guilds (of note) took any time off “hoping that one of the other servers would move out”; they took time off 1st to help lock the tier and prevent anyone from slipping into T2, and 2nd (lately) because WvW really doesn’t matter with HoT right around the corner.

Well to be fair it isnt just our koreans. In NA prime time Mag is usually the only server in the group without a real group running. I mean when CD is fielding more players then you, then break status achieved! Heck we tried doing a guild run last night with 15 people. On mag bl we took bay 2 towers and citadel. Just hoping some sort of force would show up to defend or fight. How many mag showed up? 2. 1 of which was afk in the citadel. We messed around for another 15 minutes then gave up.

No biggie like you said wvw doesnt matter now (if it ever does) so it is all good. Just a bit boring. Not many guilds are really running so the blob war is in full effect!

Wait…. you took their citadel? Sorry I missed out on that.

Garrison or whatevah! :p

Although citadel would have been much cooler. Sadly we arent that good. We did stand in our own citadel for an extanded period of time wondering who designed the messed up houses that just disappear into the mountain. Does that count?

Just goes to show how broke the system is and why it isn’t going to get any better.

Only hope left is that CU will provide a better format of play if it launches in 2016. Right now the glaring flaw in front of us has been, and always will be, the system used to match servers. It is also one reason why the two hundred pound gorilla didn’t do a similar format and locks maps to random people with set numbers (aka WoW/Wintergrasp).

I enjoyed the match up until T2 fell apart and you had a bunch of players move down that screwed up the fights. Roaming really went to crap after that.

Puck.9612:

I enjoyed the match up until T2 fell apart and you had a bunch of players move down that screwed up the fights. Roaming really went to crap after that.

T2 guilds are leaving (most have already left) and headed back so they can “raid against each other”; even though none of them really raid for more than an hour. Like you I am hoping the roaming gets back to what it was, but really the problem now is the guilds that are running 50+ man map blobs while pulling 12+ hr days. Once that kitten starts it is hard to break because pugs start begging for that ktrain on a daily basis.

Oh well, we will see what HoT brings, I have a feeling it will be the end for a lot of old school WvW’ers.

bob.8632:

Puck.9612:

I enjoyed the match up until T2 fell apart and you had a bunch of players move down that screwed up the fights. Roaming really went to crap after that.

T2 guilds are leaving (most have already left) and headed back so they can “raid against each other”; even though none of them really raid for more than an hour. Like you I am hoping the roaming gets back to what it was, but really the problem now is the guilds that are running 50+ man map blobs while pulling 12+ hr days. Once that kitten starts it is hard to break because pugs start begging for that ktrain on a daily basis.

Oh well, we will see what HoT brings, I have a feeling it will be the end for a lot of old school WvW’ers.

Blobs are going to do what blobs are going to do. I was just upset because before the collapse I could often get some great 1v1’s or small group fights without some large group jumping in to ruin the fight. People would stand off to the side watching the fight and then challenge the winners.
That has pretty much disappeared and now you will have 15+ man groups with venom share chasing solo roamers or 2-3 man groups halfway across the map

I don’t think so. SI has won multiple weeks in a row. Why are we still playing against them then?

Saleen Jso.2645:

I don’t think so. SI has won multiple weeks in a row. Why are we still playing against them then?

Well atm any match you get OTHER than the one you are currently in you will either steamroll or get steamrolled.

The populations are so stratified right now that the chances for new, entertaining matches are slim. Hopefully enough players come back with HoT that there will be some shuffling, but I’m not counting on it too much.

Kanebrake.6192:

This isn’t unique to your tier. It’s part of the overarching problem with how WvW works. There’s relatively little movement within the brackets.

Except this isn’t a problem in EU at all. The difference between t1-3 in NA is about the same as t1-6 in EU lol. They have incredible matchup variety in most tiers.

This problem is brought on by NA’s tendancy to bandwagon and create “fites tiers”, nothing more. Mag/CD/SBI all bandwagoned to make fites tier, the consequence of this is the glicko between t3-4 will grow because of the pop disparity created by the ascension of each bandwagon to t3. That’s why t1 first, then t2, and now t3, all have massive glicko gaps. When Dh was in t4 we could RNG into t3 cus the glicko wasn’t that much dif, then bandwagons.

It’s not the system, it’s the players. We screw ourselves over. Blaming the system is just a scape goat.

Edit: Oh and to demonstrate my point, look at EU t1-4 atm:

T1 – Rank 3-5-7 servers
T2 – Rank 9-6-1
T3 – Rank 10-2-8
T4 – Rank 4-13-11

All of these matches are closer than t3 currently is. Lol, the problem isn’t in the system, it’s in NA. We just keep telling ourselves it’s the system…

NA doesn’t have language specific servers – that naturally spread some of the pop out. I have been told that Europe off-hour doesn’t tilt a match like in NA keeping the scores closer…..

Saleen Jso.2645:

I don’t think so. SI has won multiple weeks in a row. Why are we still playing against them then?

You really need to get a better grasp of the glicko/rating system anet uses to understand the situation.

Maguuma and SBI traded off wins for a few weeks to begin to level out their rating, during this time HoD was originally the 3rd server. HoD however was divided with the new transfers they had received on if they wanted to be in T3 or T4. In the end (supposedly) a lot of the people that favored T4 stopped playing and HoD became a ghosttown unless a few of the old DB guilds were running.

Mag and SBI began to focus HoD out (focus may be too strong of a word because HoD was basically ded by then); and CD pushed up for T3. Once CD got up the first week was “GOLEM WEEK” if I remember correctly. CD was able to leech some rating due to the event, and then varying weeks beyond that all 3 servers allowed the matches to remain semi-close which allowed CD to further gain rating toward Mag and SBI. The rating CD gained, was lost by SBI/Mag which further distanced the rating gap between T3 and T2, thus locking in this matchup.

There are a few things that could change the matchup, but based on the rating system it would likely take a few (or even several) weeks to materialize. Things like a server imploding in T1-3 could eventually affect the T3 match. Or a server below T3 getting massive transfers and slowly climbing their way into T3.

Once you understand how the rating system works, it is fairly easy to see why things are “the way they are”. And you begin to understand if you have a few leaders on the other servers in with you, how easy it is to manipulate the ratings to get the desired result.

Liston.9708:

NA doesn’t have language specific servers – that naturally spread some of the pop out. I have been told that Europe off-hour doesn’t tilt a match like in NA keeping the scores closer…..

That doesn’t account for the difference though. In fact, the simple fact that all servers in NA are English means that people have more liberty to spread out and choose where we go. We don’t have restrictions.

The simple fact of the matter is that EU is less prone to bandwagoning, stacking, or fixing tiers than NA is. Some people like stacked/fixed tiers, good for them, but those who are in those tiers have to realize this was done intentionally. It’s not by accident that t3 got so stacked and so fixed, that was the intention.

Arius.7031:

The simple fact of the matter is that EU is less prone to bandwagoning, stacking, or fixing tiers than NA is. Some people like stacked/fixed tiers, good for them, but those who are in those tiers have to realize this was done intentionally. It’s not by accident that t3 got so stacked and so fixed, that was the intention.

Bandwagon… where would someone bandwagon to in the US servers? About the only server worth transferring to that has a reasonable cost is SoS which is being artificially held at High rather than Very High or Full. Nobody can get on the Full servers.

The US servers have more regional variance (larger time zone disparities) and a significantly larger regional pool than the EU servers. That has far more to do with the current tier imbalances than somehow EU players being better in some way.

The tier was locked on purpose by collaboration.

It’s been said a couple times in the topic but for those who don’t read long replies.

Exactly. The NA ladder is more stratified because GW2 has no Oceanic servers and at release had no Asian servers. The players from those regions for the most part played on NA servers, and over time they found themselves moving higher and higher as only a few servers had the off-hours coverage to compete.

Now we’re at a point where outside a guild here and there almost all of the SEA/OCX guilds are clustered in T1-2. If those players spread themselves out, the top four tiers of the NA ladder would be reasonably balanced. But it is not in the interest of the SEA/OCX players to scatter, because there is not enough of them to populate four tiers. And despite the meme that they only want to PVD, that is not true. They want to have people to fight.

It isn’t entirely fair to say the stratification is occurring in NA servers due to OCX and SEA players. Their movement does have an influence, but it would be remiss to deny NA players moving around. One of the reasons for the glicko cliff between T2 and T3 originates in that being the border between Gold and Silver WvW tournament leagues and the free transfers pre-Season 2. That was a lot of NA moving around.

Straegen.2938:

Bandwagon… where would someone bandwagon to in the US servers? About the only server worth transferring to that has a reasonable cost is SoS which is being artificially held at High rather than Very High or Full. Nobody can get on the Full servers.

The US servers have more regional variance (larger time zone disparities) and a significantly larger regional pool than the EU servers. That has far more to do with the current tier imbalances than somehow EU players being better in some way.

It’s not saying they’re better to say they’re different, and they are. Anyone who has played EU knows it’s different from NA in more ways than just having different languages. Different metas, skill levels, culture, etc…

You’re saying bandwagons are due to off hour transfers? Sorry, I don’t agree with that. In the same way that we accomodate OCX/SEA for “variance”, EU accomodates French Canadians, Mexicans, and even a good few NA players. They have the exact same sort of off hour disparity that we do, Baruch’s Bay is their version of Dragonbrand even rofl.

Current tier imbalances are due to many things, chief among them being bandwagons and tier fixing.

Caliburn.1845:

Exactly. The NA ladder is more stratified because GW2 has no Oceanic servers and at release had no Asian servers. The players from those regions for the most part played on NA servers, and over time they found themselves moving higher and higher as only a few servers had the off-hours coverage to compete.

Now we’re at a point where outside a guild here and there almost all of the SEA/OCX guilds are clustered in T1-2. If those players spread themselves out, the top four tiers of the NA ladder would be reasonably balanced. But it is not in the interest of the SEA/OCX players to scatter, because there is not enough of them to populate four tiers. And despite the meme that they only want to PVD, that is not true. They want to have people to fight.

But EU has a similar ‘problem’ with NA players lol? They have loads of French Canadians, Mexicans, and even some normal NA players who cover for their off hours much like SEA/OCX do for ours lol.

People have to take into account that with HoT right around the corner CD went on break about 3 weeks ago with 9 of our 16 main guilds going afk and then mag went on break a week later. SBI is mostly a pug server that does not need its guilds to run like CD and MAG do and with the AoD guild(only one guild doing all the work with a massive pug force to back them up) pulling insane shifts(12 to 24 hours some days) to rally SBI pugs even harder while blobing down the smaller mag and cd pug groups, the score got onesided really quick.

Caliburn.1845:

Exactly. The NA ladder is more stratified because GW2 has no Oceanic servers and at release had no Asian servers. The players from those regions for the most part played on NA servers, and over time they found themselves moving higher and higher as only a few servers had the off-hours coverage to compete.

Now we’re at a point where outside a guild here and there almost all of the SEA/OCX guilds are clustered in T1-2. If those players spread themselves out, the top four tiers of the NA ladder would be reasonably balanced. But it is not in the interest of the SEA/OCX players to scatter, because there is not enough of them to populate four tiers. And despite the meme that they only want to PVD, that is not true. They want to have people to fight.

If those off hours guilds wanna fight people why did a guilds like OG join SBI that already has a stacked ocx/sea? Surely they wanted a challenge.

Arius.7031:

Straegen.2938:

Bandwagon… where would someone bandwagon to in the US servers? About the only server worth transferring to that has a reasonable cost is SoS which is being artificially held at High rather than Very High or Full. Nobody can get on the Full servers.

The US servers have more regional variance (larger time zone disparities) and a significantly larger regional pool than the EU servers. That has far more to do with the current tier imbalances than somehow EU players being better in some way.

It’s not saying they’re better to say they’re different, and they are. Anyone who has played EU knows it’s different from NA in more ways than just having different languages. Different metas, skill levels, culture, etc…

You’re saying bandwagons are due to off hour transfers? Sorry, I don’t agree with that. In the same way that we accomodate OCX/SEA for “variance”, EU accomodates French Canadians, Mexicans, and even a good few NA players. They have the exact same sort of off hour disparity that we do, Baruch’s Bay is their version of Dragonbrand even rofl.

Current tier imbalances are due to many things, chief among them being bandwagons and tier fixing.

The “tier fixing” of this tier was more about CD,SBI and MAG almost never taking anything and just fighting each other outside of keeps and towers for the first 2ish months of the tier. If you remember CD had to fight past the 2 bandwagons of HoD and NSP while only getting 2 guilds, everyone said we would never make it(mag and sbi thought the same at the time) there was never any plans for CD in tier 3 but we outlasted and kept focusing the largest server(hell I remember you posting awhile ago about how you where impressed that CD left DH alone and kept hammering NSP). Anyway to the point when Xushin came into our ts asking if we wanted to work together we said we just wanted to fight and CD would stay tier 3 if we could hold our own. When we got to tier 3 the very first Saturday this happened https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C6mKI1-HDTs&index=6 and we fell in love after fighting ppt servers for so long and never wanted to leave so did what we could to stay and never drop down(and so much offhour ppting was done). Then tier 2 transfers and you know the story but more or less this tier was made this way with alot less working together then you think.(Also CD has to make itself look stable in the tier for the transfers to even happen)

Lapiy.7160:

Arius.7031:

Straegen.2938:

Bandwagon… where would someone bandwagon to in the US servers? About the only server worth transferring to that has a reasonable cost is SoS which is being artificially held at High rather than Very High or Full. Nobody can get on the Full servers.

The US servers have more regional variance (larger time zone disparities) and a significantly larger regional pool than the EU servers. That has far more to do with the current tier imbalances than somehow EU players being better in some way.

It’s not saying they’re better to say they’re different, and they are. Anyone who has played EU knows it’s different from NA in more ways than just having different languages. Different metas, skill levels, culture, etc…

You’re saying bandwagons are due to off hour transfers? Sorry, I don’t agree with that. In the same way that we accomodate OCX/SEA for “variance”, EU accomodates French Canadians, Mexicans, and even a good few NA players. They have the exact same sort of off hour disparity that we do, Baruch’s Bay is their version of Dragonbrand even rofl.

Current tier imbalances are due to many things, chief among them being bandwagons and tier fixing.

The “tier fixing” of this tier was more about CD,SBI and MAG almost never taking anything and just fighting each other outside of keeps and towers for the first 2ish months of the tier. If you remember CD had to fight past the 2 bandwagons of HoD and NSP while only getting 2 guilds, everyone said we would never make it(mag and sbi thought the same at the time) there was never any plans for CD in tier 3 but we outlasted and kept focusing the largest server(hell I remember you posting awhile ago about how you where impressed that CD left DH alone and kept hammering NSP). Anyway to the point when Xushin came into our ts asking if we wanted to work together we said we just wanted to fight and CD would stay tier 3 if we could hold our own. When we got to tier 3 the very first Saturday this happened https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C6mKI1-HDTs&index=6 and we fell in love after fighting ppt servers for so long and never wanted to leave so did what we could to stay and never drop down(and so much offhour ppting was done). Then tier 2 transfers and you know the story but more or less this tier was made this way with alot less working together then you think.(Also CD has to make itself look stable in the tier for the transfers to even happen)

Oh I’ll take your word on it for CD not actively trying to fix the tier, though you guys were definitely bandwagon (as you may or may not remember, you received 3 full NA guilds from Dh alone lol, our fattest/worst ones at that). I mean, just a few months prior we had been facing you and you guys were barely at t6 population lol. You went from that to defeating Hodb and NSP after they received the ET transfers. That’s a pretty big bandwagon all things considered lol.

Arius.7031:

Lapiy.7160:

Arius.7031:

Straegen.2938:

Bandwagon… where would someone bandwagon to in the US servers? About the only server worth transferring to that has a reasonable cost is SoS which is being artificially held at High rather than Very High or Full. Nobody can get on the Full servers.

The US servers have more regional variance (larger time zone disparities) and a significantly larger regional pool than the EU servers. That has far more to do with the current tier imbalances than somehow EU players being better in some way.

It’s not saying they’re better to say they’re different, and they are. Anyone who has played EU knows it’s different from NA in more ways than just having different languages. Different metas, skill levels, culture, etc…

You’re saying bandwagons are due to off hour transfers? Sorry, I don’t agree with that. In the same way that we accomodate OCX/SEA for “variance”, EU accomodates French Canadians, Mexicans, and even a good few NA players. They have the exact same sort of off hour disparity that we do, Baruch’s Bay is their version of Dragonbrand even rofl.

Current tier imbalances are due to many things, chief among them being bandwagons and tier fixing.

The “tier fixing” of this tier was more about CD,SBI and MAG almost never taking anything and just fighting each other outside of keeps and towers for the first 2ish months of the tier. If you remember CD had to fight past the 2 bandwagons of HoD and NSP while only getting 2 guilds, everyone said we would never make it(mag and sbi thought the same at the time) there was never any plans for CD in tier 3 but we outlasted and kept focusing the largest server(hell I remember you posting awhile ago about how you where impressed that CD left DH alone and kept hammering NSP). Anyway to the point when Xushin came into our ts asking if we wanted to work together we said we just wanted to fight and CD would stay tier 3 if we could hold our own. When we got to tier 3 the very first Saturday this happened https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C6mKI1-HDTs&index=6 and we fell in love after fighting ppt servers for so long and never wanted to leave so did what we could to stay and never drop down(and so much offhour ppting was done). Then tier 2 transfers and you know the story but more or less this tier was made this way with alot less working together then you think.(Also CD has to make itself look stable in the tier for the transfers to even happen)

Oh I’ll take your word on it for CD not actively trying to fix the tier, though you guys were definitely bandwagon (as you may or may not remember, you received 3 full NA guilds from Dh alone lol, our fattest/worst ones at that). I mean, just a few months prior we had been facing you and you guys were barely at t6 population lol. You went from that to defeating Hodb and NSP after they received the ET transfers. That’s a pretty big bandwagon all things considered lol.

The only full guild from DH was Riot, SDS and that other guild ran less then 10 when they got to CD and moved to tier 2 pretty quick, the other main transfer was krew(FAIL came after we where already ktraining the tier). As was said back then the main driving force was the summer time when LOZ,VII, and TDS all came back into the game full time, 3 guilds that have been on CD for a very long time and are the driving force behind rallying Late na/ocx(VII) NA prime (TDS) SEA,loz and training the EU players(by rallying I mean getting the other guilds to raid more/showing the scout guilds that we will defend using Commandar coms ect) that stayed following Docdotgame quiting of WvW in tier 5. We did get ALOT of transfers after sitting in tier 3 for a awhile. Edit: Hell if you don’t believe me I could post our TS numbers from that month from our forums if you want to see them lol.

Lapiy.7160:

If you remember CD had to fight past the 2 bandwagons of HoD and NSP while only getting 2 guilds, everyone said we would never make it

Bandwagon of NSP? You have no idea what you’re talking about.

Hi All,

Just a friendly reminder that EU servers are almost always happy to welcome NA guilds onto their servers.

Get your Google on.

Arius.7031:

You’re saying bandwagons are due to off hour transfers? Sorry, I don’t agree with that. In the same way that we accomodate OCX/SEA for “variance”, EU accomodates French Canadians, Mexicans, and even a good few NA players. They have the exact same sort of off hour disparity that we do, Baruch’s Bay is their version of Dragonbrand even rofl.

I am saying few if any players are “bandwagoning” in the US since the Full lock and probably not much since the last tournament. There is no place to bandwagon to in the US. Maybe SoS as the transfer is cheap and puts players in T2. Even in that case much of that was from TC to SoS which isn’t a bandwagon.

Arius.7031:

Caliburn.1845:

Exactly. The NA ladder is more stratified because GW2 has no Oceanic servers and at release had no Asian servers. The players from those regions for the most part played on NA servers, and over time they found themselves moving higher and higher as only a few servers had the off-hours coverage to compete.

Now we’re at a point where outside a guild here and there almost all of the SEA/OCX guilds are clustered in T1-2. If those players spread themselves out, the top four tiers of the NA ladder would be reasonably balanced. But it is not in the interest of the SEA/OCX players to scatter, because there is not enough of them to populate four tiers. And despite the meme that they only want to PVD, that is not true. They want to have people to fight.

But EU has a similar ‘problem’ with NA players lol? They have loads of French Canadians, Mexicans, and even some normal NA players who cover for their off hours much like SEA/OCX do for ours lol.

Just do what the rest of Canada does and pretend the French Canadians don’t exist, that will help with at least part of your problem.

;P

Straegen.2938:

Arius.7031:

You’re saying bandwagons are due to off hour transfers? Sorry, I don’t agree with that. In the same way that we accomodate OCX/SEA for “variance”, EU accomodates French Canadians, Mexicans, and even a good few NA players. They have the exact same sort of off hour disparity that we do, Baruch’s Bay is their version of Dragonbrand even rofl.

I am saying few if any players are “bandwagoning” in the US since the Full lock and probably not much since the last tournament. There is no place to bandwagon to in the US. Maybe SoS as the transfer is cheap and puts players in T2. Even in that case much of that was from TC to SoS which isn’t a bandwagon.

It’s not only high tiers that are/can bandwagon O.o. The largest bandwagons in the history of GW2 come from the depths of bronze, and since the new population mechanic takes time to adjust nothing can stop people from bandwagoning currently. Db is a bandwagon lol, Dh was to a lesser degree though we’ve shed some of our transfers.

Further I’m talking about history, not necessarily what’s happening now. NA has a history of bandwagoning and fixing tiers, that’s what has put us in this position (for better or for worse).

Arius.7031:

Further I’m talking about history, not necessarily what’s happening now. NA has a history of bandwagoning and fixing tiers, that’s what has put us in this position (for better or for worse).

EU has blowouts and static tiers just like NA. The number of real NA bandwagon activities are almost all related to free transfers (gone for years now) and tournaments. There hasn’t been any real bandwagon activity or even significant implosions in NA for a year.

Besides this problem has existed since day one and had little to do with a “bandwagon” problem.

Straegen.2938:

Arius.7031:

Further I’m talking about history, not necessarily what’s happening now. NA has a history of bandwagoning and fixing tiers, that’s what has put us in this position (for better or for worse).

EU has blowouts and static tiers just like NA. The number of real NA bandwagon activities are almost all related to free transfers (gone for years now) and tournaments. There hasn’t been any real bandwagon activity or even significant implosions in NA for a year.

Besides this problem has existed since day one and had little to do with a “bandwagon” problem.

3 months ago, we had a bandwagon in T2 that also lead to two other servers imploding. 10 months ago we had a bandwagon coming from T3 and completely destroyed T2 balance and ended imploding themselves as well.

Exciton.8942:

3 months ago, we had a bandwagon in T2 that also lead to two other servers imploding. 10 months ago we had a bandwagon coming from T3 and completely destroyed T2 balance and ended imploding themselves as well.

At the start of the year TC, JQ, BG, YB, SoS, DB and FA were at the top of the leaderboards. Now we have SBI replacing DB but otherwise same servers.

The “recent” big shifts were Mag when the T2 GvG project bailed which was a year ago and HoD during the last tournament also over a year ago. Everything else has pretty much been low to mid-tier shifting where 10 players moving can actually shift the scores. TC and YB switched places but that is about all the drama going on in the top tiers. The last titanic shift was SoR and that was two years ago.

Sorry just not seeing much “bandwagoning” since the top 4 servers became locked. Now if those become unlocked, that will probably have some big shifts but I am guessing that isn’t going to happen any time soon.

bob.8632:

Saleen Jso.2645:

I don’t think so. SI has won multiple weeks in a row. Why are we still playing against them then?

You really need to get a better grasp of the glicko/rating system anet uses to understand the situation.

Maguuma and SBI traded off wins for a few weeks to begin to level out their rating, during this time HoD was originally the 3rd server. HoD however was divided with the new transfers they had received on if they wanted to be in T3 or T4. In the end (supposedly) a lot of the people that favored T4 stopped playing and HoD became a ghosttown unless a few of the old DB guilds were running.

Mag and SBI began to focus HoD out (focus may be too strong of a word because HoD was basically ded by then); and CD pushed up for T3. Once CD got up the first week was “GOLEM WEEK” if I remember correctly. CD was able to leech some rating due to the event, and then varying weeks beyond that all 3 servers allowed the matches to remain semi-close which allowed CD to further gain rating toward Mag and SBI. The rating CD gained, was lost by SBI/Mag which further distanced the rating gap between T3 and T2, thus locking in this matchup.

There are a few things that could change the matchup, but based on the rating system it would likely take a few (or even several) weeks to materialize. Things like a server imploding in T1-3 could eventually affect the T3 match. Or a server below T3 getting massive transfers and slowly climbing their way into T3.

Once you understand how the rating system works, it is fairly easy to see why things are “the way they are”. And you begin to understand if you have a few leaders on the other servers in with you, how easy it is to manipulate the ratings to get the desired result.

Ok well whatever, I don’t think it should be so easy to fix matches then. I think there should be more variety and diverse interaction between the different servers. Being told in team chat not to defend anything on Mag BL or buy any upgrades so we can make sure we lose, just seems silly to me. What are we supposed to do then? And I think for smaller groups of players especially, it just gets boring roaming and fighting the exact same opponents (other small parties) week after week. It almost encourages or sets a precedent that if you want to meet and fight new players, then you will need to pay and transfer

I guess the bandwagoning can be held partially responsible, but all that would have to happen to fix it is to adjust the RNG multiplier for a few weeks to force different matchups sometimes. Would be worth trying IMO if things don’t shift after HoT.

Straegen.2938:

Exciton.8942:

3 months ago, we had a bandwagon in T2 that also lead to two other servers imploding. 10 months ago we had a bandwagon coming from T3 and completely destroyed T2 balance and ended imploding themselves as well.

At the start of the year TC, JQ, BG, YB, SoS, DB and FA were at the top of the leaderboards. Now we have SBI replacing DB but otherwise same servers.

The “recent” big shifts were Mag when the T2 GvG project bailed which was a year ago and HoD during the last tournament also over a year ago. Everything else has pretty much been low to mid-tier shifting where 10 players moving can actually shift the scores. TC and YB switched places but that is about all the drama going on in the top tiers. The last titanic shift was SoR and that was two years ago.

Sorry just not seeing much “bandwagoning” since the top 4 servers became locked. Now if those become unlocked, that will probably have some big shifts but I am guessing that isn’t going to happen any time soon.

You have to look deeper into the actual situation rather than calling everything stable just because server ranks didn’t shift a lot.

If you look at the actual population change in YB SoS FA and DB, the fluctuation is huge! The only reason SoS and FA didn’t have ranking change if because the artificial glicko wall created by T3 servers.

Saleen Jso.2645:

bob.8632:

Saleen Jso.2645:

I don’t think so. SI has won multiple weeks in a row. Why are we still playing against them then?

You really need to get a better grasp of the glicko/rating system anet uses to understand the situation.

Maguuma and SBI traded off wins for a few weeks to begin to level out their rating, during this time HoD was originally the 3rd server. HoD however was divided with the new transfers they had received on if they wanted to be in T3 or T4. In the end (supposedly) a lot of the people that favored T4 stopped playing and HoD became a ghosttown unless a few of the old DB guilds were running.

Mag and SBI began to focus HoD out (focus may be too strong of a word because HoD was basically ded by then); and CD pushed up for T3. Once CD got up the first week was “GOLEM WEEK” if I remember correctly. CD was able to leech some rating due to the event, and then varying weeks beyond that all 3 servers allowed the matches to remain semi-close which allowed CD to further gain rating toward Mag and SBI. The rating CD gained, was lost by SBI/Mag which further distanced the rating gap between T3 and T2, thus locking in this matchup.

There are a few things that could change the matchup, but based on the rating system it would likely take a few (or even several) weeks to materialize. Things like a server imploding in T1-3 could eventually affect the T3 match. Or a server below T3 getting massive transfers and slowly climbing their way into T3.

Once you understand how the rating system works, it is fairly easy to see why things are “the way they are”. And you begin to understand if you have a few leaders on the other servers in with you, how easy it is to manipulate the ratings to get the desired result.

Ok well whatever, I don’t think it should be so easy to fix matches then. I think there should be more variety and diverse interaction between the different servers. Being told in team chat not to defend anything on Mag BL or buy any upgrades so we can make sure we lose, just seems silly to me. What are we supposed to do then? And I think for smaller groups of players especially, it just gets boring roaming and fighting the exact same opponents (other small parties) week after week. It almost encourages or sets a precedent that if you want to meet and fight new players, then you will need to pay and transfer

Well for larger guilds its the other way around with randomly moving around tiers making is so there is less people to fight and sometimes nothing but pug zergs and ppt focused guilds that avoid fights in favor of boring the stronger guilds untill they log off(NSP is a prime example of this) making it so its in the interest of some servers to want to only face other servers like there own else they don’t get to play the game mode they love so much for weeks at a time.

Caliburn.1845:

But it is not in the interest of the SEA/OCX players to scatter, because there is not enough of them to populate four tiers. And despite the meme that they only want to PVD, that is not true. They want to have people to fight.

But there is enough to populate 3 maybe 4 servers (IE: 1-tier)…So in that sense it is more of a stereotype rather than a meme…And stereotypes often come from at least a half-truth.

Saleen Jso.2645:

And I think for smaller groups of players especially, it just gets boring roaming and fighting the exact same opponents (other small parties) week after week. It almost encourages or sets a precedent that if you want to meet and fight new players, then you will need to pay and transfer

Now you are getting the idea!

I am not sure how long you have been playing WvW, but this is pretty SOP at this point. And Mag along with T1 and T2 have been pretty well known to manipulate these matches as needed. So it is not something that will likely change anytime soon.

The fix IMO, was the “winner moves up, loser moves down” approach. But ANET decided to stick with the glicko system instead.

Exciton.8942:

If you look at the actual population change in YB SoS FA and DB, the fluctuation is huge! The only reason SoS and FA didn’t have ranking change if because the artificial glicko wall created by T3 servers.

Populations have shifted a bit but where is the bandwagoning? Nobody can get to the top 4 servers and they haven’t fallen. SoS and FA are pretty competitive and if either fell into T3 they would likely straight up murder that tier with their current population levels.

Where is this mythical bandwagon that is creating a serious issue? We can point to a few more than a year ago but nothing really recent. Simply put bandwagoning outside of tournaments seems pretty dead with little reason to “bandwagon”.

Just popping in to the latest winner up\loser down thread. Really need to think about putting it in place anet.

Would add some excitement to the matchups. Kinda like a tournament but without all the cheating and spreadsheets.

Elterzzz.4378:

LOL this is what the fight guilds want

i love the concept of fight guilds.
it’s like they somehow forgot defending keeps from 40 invaders requires fighting.

Lightsbane.9012:

Elterzzz.4378:

LOL this is what the fight guilds want

i love the concept of fight guilds.
it’s like they somehow forgot defending keeps from 40 invaders requires fighting.

Most fight guilds will defend, because it means at least getting a fight.