Guild Wars 2

Leave it to the goons to break terrible game design.

Good work goons! You are doing everyone who plays this game a favor.

They are not here to ruin the game, they are here to ruin the developers game :P

This isn’t stacking. Shadowbane was stacking. The only way to prevent it would be to turn on collision detection for all player models. Do that, and you better hope you have a top of the line computer or you will just log out.

It’s a valid tactic, whether you like it or not. Join the party or learn how to beat it. End of story.

I wish MAG would stop losing, I enjoyed fighting them a lot as Tarnished Coast. They are a great bunch of gamers… most didn’t even complain about losing, almost zero q.q posts if any. Either that… or I hope GOON and SFD transfer to a server with more population so we can have our epic brawls.

Shadowbane… where the real men learned to siege. Shout out to all the hardcore old-school shadowbizzle players from all of us at -x-.

Special love if you were ever a part of CS (Crime Syndicate), 187, or R30. (my old stomping grounds.)

Doubt we will ever meet TC again unless you donate us some aussies.

The Shadow Legion also learned a lot of siege warfare from Shadowbane. I see this game being mentioned more and more…

First off, this is a completely legitimate tactic. Rendering issues not included, of course. It is also incredibly effective. So much so that the best recourse is to either set up siege out of range, or bubble yourselves and set up siege within.

Secondly, it is “Bubble Wars” not any of the others!

As for this being some sort of sign of great coordination and tactics; all it takes is a few people to push a button when its no longer dark and for everyone to stay in the bright bubble on screen. Attacking enemies will do the rest.

Either way, this type of gameplay is incredibly boring and certainly taking a lot of the fun away from WvW for me. It just becomes a game of who can get siege up first. There is limited teamwork, limited mobility, limited skills involved and overall is just painfully dull. All anyone has to do is stay in the bubble, and those putting up the bubble need to press their button. Meh.

As was mentioned, an easy way to mitigate this would be to make it like every single other AoE type spell in the game in that its effects only apply to five people.

From a NSP perspective being able to have 30-40 players on any single map at the same time sounds grossly OP. At least after Sunday.

Tuluum, you tried organizing 30-40 people to move in a live-fire environment under a bubble? It’s easier said then done. There are a ton of stack bursting tactics you can use in this game, we used them on SFD when they fought us at TC. Suicide bowling ball guardians backed up by some heavy AoE CC’ers can clear a stack easy enough.

And eCheese, we barely have enough Oceanics to fight most NA primetime servers. Crystal Desert, Blackgate, Sea of Sorrows… any server with an oceanic presence worth some salt wipes the floor with us.

Please take the time to call it what it is, and then do a search in these forums/google for it. This has been posted many times. It’s called a “survival stack”. FYI people post about this stack at least once a week calling it an exploit when there are mechanics in this game to counter it. It’s not an exploit just because you are unaware how to counter it.

I love it every time the enemy does this.. more bags for me.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/wuvwuv/WvW-Exploit-Abuse-of-AOE-Target-limit-of-5/first#post484944

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/wuvwuv/Singularity-Zerg-an-exploit-or-WAI-screenshots-included/first#post309737

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/wuvwuv/Paying-2-gold-for-an-effective-counter/first#post488878

etc. etc.

I think elementalists with mist form and a range of CC’s can also get close enough to help burst a survival stack? Not sure though, not played an ele in awhile.

Firefly.4165:

Please take the time to call it what it is, and then do a search in these forums/google for it. This has been posted many times. It’s called a “survival stack”. FYI people post about this stack at least once a week calling it an exploit when there are mechanics in this game to counter it. It’s not an exploit just because you are unaware how to counter it.

Now you know what Maguuma has been experiencing this entire matchup.

@Scorpio: Like I said, its a completely legitimate tactic. However, I have seen actual advanced tactics from servers that use this and prefer it. You will greatly struggle to convince me that bubbling takes more coordination than say, a multi-prong tiered attack. Its also much more boring. To succeed in a bubble what you will need are two things; A commander icon and people to actually read chat (the latter being much, much harder than the former). Then say “stack on comm! put up bubbles when one isnt up!”

Edit: I will give you that bubbling is more advanced than simply throwing yourselves at the enemy.

I am aware of ways to negate the bubble, I tried to make it clear thats not my issue. Thanks though!

Multi-prong tiered attack… sounds a lot like…. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Echelon_formation

Anyone tried that in WvWvW to any great success? I mean, even when commanding, I see battle lines all the time. However, it’s hard to see how staggered waves are coming in when leading from the front. I know guilds have called out when moving in from a flank or whatever, making it a multi-pronged attack that way… but talking about tactics got me thinking.

How easy/hard is it to actually set up advanced military tactics in WvWvW with teleports, stealths, etc. etc.?

I wasnt speaking of formations at all

Either way, it would be quite difficult, which is what makes them “advanced!” If I see such a thing, I will be impressed. It will also be incredibly effective, if even only by means of superior communication, execution, and tactics.

We need to start a thread for theorycrafting WvWvW tactics that doesn’t have an OP complaining about them.

eCheese.8240:

Shadowbane… where the real men learned to siege. Shout out to all the hardcore old-school shadowbizzle players from all of us at -x-.

Special love if you were ever a part of CS (Crime Syndicate), 187, or R30. (my old stomping grounds.)

Scorpio Shirica.1286:

The Shadow Legion also learned a lot of siege warfare from Shadowbane. I see this game being mentioned more and more…

Shadowbane was were real men went to PVP back in the day. Nothing like a 2 week long war to destroy the Aftermath Beta guild and their Northern Alliance buddies on whatever server I was on. I was co-guild leader of “The Shadow Empire”. I miss those days. Shout outs to anyone that played Shadowbane, and if any of you were from the server with Aftermath, the NA, Mad Cow Mercenaries, House of the Frog, House of Errants (coolest PK’s ever), etc please give me some love. Good times, and that game was kittening broken compared to this game.

Just get over the stacking. For Fooooks sake.

@Scorpio: I think that would be pretty neat. Though, most will probably want to keep them to their server exclusively. I am of the other mind, wanting greater and greater competition, so I would personally readily share my ideas.

Also, its exactly what many servers should be doing, imo (implementing applicable military style tactics). They work for a reason! They also have been tried and tested over.. quite a few years. Adapting, of course, for changes in technology. This adaptation could be transferred to the game pretty easily. It would be execution and participation that would be difficult.

We could also learn quite a bit from strategies in other well-established PvP games. Something like SC2 is fairly similar in that there is “offense, defense, and supply.” Just some ideas

As far as a PvP thread that doesnt have complaining or its inverse, ego stroking.. (just as annoying in my book) good luck with that!

Hold on a second.

These people all stacked inside the radius of a Healing Turret (doesn’t matter if there were more than one, the regen doesn’t stack) and propped up a Rifle Turret and sat there. Defending.

And you’re saying that your (assuming: outnumbered) zerg couldn’t defeat them?

And you’re blaming the turrets?
The turrets.
What?

Am I missing something here? xD

Hurry everyone! Reroll Engineers and plop down 20 turrets at supply camps!

Onward to victory~

Ingenuity is maddening. Just maddening.

i remember when everyone was crying about Mesmer portal exploit until Anet said that is a valid strategies…[im talking about the one where some mesmer would hide inside the keep before it was taken and then portal their ally inside the keep to take it right back]

I don’t get this thread. DH is winning the matchup and they’re complaining about not being able to beat 30 guys at a supply camp.

Scorpio Shirica.1286:

I wish MAG would stop losing, I enjoyed fighting them a lot as Tarnished Coast. They are a great bunch of gamers… most didn’t even complain about losing, almost zero q.q posts if any. Either that… or I hope GOON and SFD transfer to a server with more population so we can have our epic brawls.

Yeah I miss fighting Tarnished Coast. My dream bracket right now would be Toast vs Mag vs Fort Aspergewood but we need to maintain our pop and keep building our new guilds and pubbies up first.

I’m not aware of any plans for GOON or SFD to transfer server. Constantly fighting uphill battles makes us better players I guess and you figure once you lose enough, its not the end of the world. Good times.

High bracket just means you field more players most of the time and/or have better night coverage. I’d like Maguuma to stay around where we are among the low to medium pop servers so that I can WvW anytime without queues.

30 – 40 ppl stacking at one camp. Is better for your team then it is for theirs. Move on to the next camp, tower, or keep. I wish all my enemy servers would do this. Leaves much less defense at towers and keeps.

If you think a stack of 30 guys in 1 spot is OP, you haven’t seen nothin yet.

Old School SB player here, Beta to end…. (ODB, X, R30s….etc) Shadowbane siege wars is what every siege game should aspire to. If you ask me, i’d rather kill the other zerg repeatedly all night then own anything on the map. Currently its worth almost nothing, no long term impact.

If 1 stack makes you come crying to the boards then you better go back to PvE land. As soon as the game is out long enough where guilds can build proper groups, you won’t see these mindless zergs taking anything anymore.

There are things built into this game that allows unorganized zergs to get rolled by lesser numbers. In shadowbane, there wasn’t superior gear, you had to use superior tactics. Once we get more and more organized, you will have to learn to adapt.

You should feel lucky you got a witness some strategy….now back to your zerg!

Correct. The best counter Zerg tactic if you cannot overwhelm them with numbers is to be everywhere the enemy Zerg is not. If it means capping and losing points on the map thats ok. If you execute it properly, you can cap and lose more points on the map simultaneously than any fighting force that is massively concentrated in one place.

We have pretty much everyone arranged into 5 man parties though, so our Zerg can split into any multiple of 5 players and reform at will. We don’t use map marker names like Astralholme and Askelion Hills. We use cardinal directions like North West Supply and East Keep. Rally points and ETA are called in voice comm so a Zerg that has split in 3 or 4 separate teams can rally at one point and Zerg up again if necessary.

I don’t believe any of this is possible without heavy reliance on voice comms and good channel discipline. You may be able to do it in chat relay but after a while you start to realize that speed is incredibly important since the first to react and anticipate creates opportunities to their advantage.

For instance, yesterday I rolled with SFD and we timed a double stealth Keep/Garrison assault timed to the orb reset to deny Northern Shiverpeaks the opportunity to place the orb in a defensible location. We ended up running down the orb after it failed to make East Keep before it flipped and we caught them on the runback to West Keep.

Later on we ended up trading keeps against a much larger Darkhaven force but as fast as we were moving, they could simply split their forces between both keeps. What got us in the end was they could delay us at other map points long enough to siege East Keep. And kitten is East Keep hard to take when its sieged up to the eyeballs. It is literally a maze of chokepoints.

I’m also wondering when the “Guild” part of guild wars is going to actually mean something. So far it should be called “Server Wars”

Guild Wars 2 is carry over from Guild Wars 1. Think there was more “Guilds” war in part 1. Part 2 is an evolution of it into Server Wars.

Any pro pvp player knows always to bring a pocket engineer for the op healing turret.

Hopefully Arenanet wont realise how powerfull it is and nerf it.

There’s also been many comments on there direction and building on the ‘guild’ piece. But nothing firm … like lets say a Guild Keep/Base for GvG or hell I’d be happy with a Guild cape again.

Thanatos.2431:

I’m also wondering when the “Guild” part of guild wars is going to actually mean something. So far it should be called “Server Wars”

Didn’t you hear?! Everyone on Maguma is in the same guild!!!

Our healing turrets are not your…conventional healing turrets.

Xabu.3754:

Our healing turrets are not your…conventional healing turrets.

Hooray for safety pineapple!!!!

Besetment.9187:

Scorpio Shirica.1286:

I wish MAG would stop losing, I enjoyed fighting them a lot as Tarnished Coast. They are a great bunch of gamers… most didn’t even complain about losing, almost zero q.q posts if any. Either that… or I hope GOON and SFD transfer to a server with more population so we can have our epic brawls.

Yeah I miss fighting Tarnished Coast. My dream bracket right now would be Toast vs Mag vs Fort Aspergewood but we need to maintain our pop and keep building our new guilds and pubbies up first.

I’m not aware of any plans for GOON or SFD to transfer server. Constantly fighting uphill battles makes us better players I guess and you figure once you lose enough, its not the end of the world. Good times.

I think FA is suffering the same numbers problem as MAG. I went in there to command the fight against FA Borderlands, somehow they got their garrison and both north towers. We promptly stomped them right off the map as soon as a commander (i.e. me) showed up.

Maybe your two servers should merge? lol

I would agree with the uphill battles thing though. During 24 hours matches, we were stuck fighting RUIN gaming several days in a row due to rotations being broken. It made a lot of Tarnished Coast originals some very scrappy fighters since we learned to fight 1v10. xD

Honestly, losing is more fun then winning most of the time. There’s only so much PvD a person can take before score stops meaning anything and you just want to murder people. I’m sure a lot of Mag players also feel this way.

Eh, I don’t know that I would say it’s more fun, but it’s still a lot of fun. If we’re winning by such a margin that nobody is in WvW in prime time (see tier 2) then of course that’s not fun. I would prefer to have higher participation from morale in a close/winning match.

Well yeah, a close contested score with nothing but competitive fighting at all hours is obviously best… But when does that happen? Generally when you’re in the lead, the opposing factions don’t show up to fight anymore.

A man can dream? Interestingly, the first and last tiers seem to be the closest matchups.

They have the most to prove. First tier are all fighting to be the superior WvW champions of the universe and the last tier is fighting not to be the kittenest server of them all.

Samaul.6073:

So did you lose enthusiasm because you just wanted to run in a zerg and press autoattack to win all day in WvW? Next time try thinking up a counter instead of complaining on the forums.
Edit: /wiki Area of Effect before complaining also. It sounds like you don’t get how it works.
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Area_of_effect

Assumptions:

“you just wanted to run a zerg and press autoattack” – this statement assumes you knew my exact motivation and exactly what i was doing at the time this event occurred, specifically

1. “you wanted” – you knew exactly what I was thinking.
2. “to run a zerg” – you knew that i was leading a zerg at that moment.
3. “press autoattack” – you knew exactly how I was playing the game at that moment, ie. autoattacking and doing nothing else.
4. “you don’t get how (Area of effect) works” – seems to me like I saw exactly how it works.

So what I hear you saying is that you can in fact read my mind and see through my eyes when I am playing GW2 and that AoE tactics are legitimate tactics in GW2 even when they give one side an insurmountable advantage over another in WvWvW.

They do give one side a huge insurmountable advantage, the side that thinks it through and sets up an arrow carts.

threads like this make me love the fact I play on Maguuma. Everyone hates us and yet we have the most fun. We have never won a WvW match up and no one jumps ship because its just to kitten fun here.

Darkhaven…/sigh. You guys really need to adapt instead of running to the forums. As mentioned previously 30-40 people at 1 supply camp is very inefficient…yet I am sure you guys zerged at them over and over as usual. You could of probably taken the rest of the map if you really wanted to. And siege…use siege…my god. Of all the servers that have beaten Maguuma with superior numbers…you guys were my favorite. I will miss playing you guys. May great things happen to you guys in the future.

This thread reminds me of the fun I had playing against Maguuma a few matches back.

I remember them breaking into the FA garrison, creating a feedback bubble, and sitting about 20 – 30 people inside it. We were pretty baffled by this tactic as it looked really weird, and also didn’t seem to help them any (they all wiped).

This thread makes me miss playing against Maguuma and seeing their crazy antics. (Btw, I think it’s awesome that they even thought of trying to stack 40 people on a single healing turret….I mean one healing turret ftw!)

Besetment.9187:

Scorpio Shirica.1286:

I wish MAG would stop losing, I enjoyed fighting them a lot as Tarnished Coast. They are a great bunch of gamers… most didn’t even complain about losing, almost zero q.q posts if any. Either that… or I hope GOON and SFD transfer to a server with more population so we can have our epic brawls.

Yeah I miss fighting Tarnished Coast. My dream bracket right now would be Toast vs Mag vs Fort Aspergewood but we need to maintain our pop and keep building our new guilds and pubbies up first.

I’m not aware of any plans for GOON or SFD to transfer server. Constantly fighting uphill battles makes us better players I guess and you figure once you lose enough, its not the end of the world. Good times.

I’m curious about the tactic where you guys log off and/or alt-f4 when you lose an even fight. Does that make you a better player or just a coward? That’s the part I’m getting stuck on.

Uh set up one siege engine and wipe them all in like 10 seconds?

Hell for that matter all you really need is a couple grenade engis. Last I checked ground target abilities don’t get reflected, and grenade engis have 1500 range on their grenades + the size of the blast.

2000ish dps per engi = everyone is dead or spread out pretty fast.

fellyn.5083:

Besetment.9187:

Scorpio Shirica.1286:

I wish MAG would stop losing, I enjoyed fighting them a lot as Tarnished Coast. They are a great bunch of gamers… most didn’t even complain about losing, almost zero q.q posts if any. Either that… or I hope GOON and SFD transfer to a server with more population so we can have our epic brawls.

Yeah I miss fighting Tarnished Coast. My dream bracket right now would be Toast vs Mag vs Fort Aspergewood but we need to maintain our pop and keep building our new guilds and pubbies up first.

I’m not aware of any plans for GOON or SFD to transfer server. Constantly fighting uphill battles makes us better players I guess and you figure once you lose enough, its not the end of the world. Good times.

I’m curious about the tactic where you guys log off and/or alt-f4 when you lose an even fight. Does that make you a better player or just a coward? That’s the part I’m getting stuck on.

That never happens because Darkhaven doesn’t stick around for even fights.

fellyn.5083:

I’m curious about the tactic where you guys log off and/or alt-f4 when you lose an even fight. Does that make you a better player or just a coward? That’s the part I’m getting stuck on.

Que?

saiyr.3071:

fellyn.5083:

Besetment.9187:

Scorpio Shirica.1286:

I wish MAG would stop losing, I enjoyed fighting them a lot as Tarnished Coast. They are a great bunch of gamers… most didn’t even complain about losing, almost zero q.q posts if any. Either that… or I hope GOON and SFD transfer to a server with more population so we can have our epic brawls.

Yeah I miss fighting Tarnished Coast. My dream bracket right now would be Toast vs Mag vs Fort Aspergewood but we need to maintain our pop and keep building our new guilds and pubbies up first.

I’m not aware of any plans for GOON or SFD to transfer server. Constantly fighting uphill battles makes us better players I guess and you figure once you lose enough, its not the end of the world. Good times.

I’m curious about the tactic where you guys log off and/or alt-f4 when you lose an even fight. Does that make you a better player or just a coward? That’s the part I’m getting stuck on.

That never happens because Darkhaven doesn’t stick around for even fights.

Interesting you say that because it happened at least 3 times to me earlier tonight in back to back fights. They were sporting the lovely [GOON] tag.

But yeah..never happens. I just imagined a guardian disappearing into thin air when his health was about to drop to 0. I wasn’t aware that Anet gave guardians stealth in the patch the other day. My bad.

We can mobilize, break, and regroup our stacks quickly on Mag now. We’re getting really good at moving them around in live environments and countering people back when they try to break us up. If you’ve been trying to find a new server, read this thread and realize that Maguuma is the place to be

Also, when we lose, we fight back instead of whining on the forums like the servers we fight!

fellyn.5083:

Interesting you say that because it happened at least 3 times to me earlier tonight in back to back fights. They were sporting the lovely [GOON] tag.

But yeah..never happens. I just imagined a guardian disappearing into thin air when his health was about to drop to 0. I wasn’t aware that Anet gave guardians stealth in the patch the other day. My bad.

OT whining in a Maguuma tactics thread? Our opponents get this demoralized even when they’re winning!