Make it insanely hard to cap
I foud that running PPT train is not much rewarding at the moment. It will eventually get flipped back. Can you consider making it INSANELY HARD to get the towers/keeps/castles? This will naturally make the WvW more competitive place.
I agree that PPT isn’t rewarding enough, nor is it considered enough by a lot of players that loot for “epic fights” with no other purpose than fighting. Yet I’m not sure making things insanely hard to cap would be a good idea : overcrowded servers will unleash a massive blob that’ll flip an entire map, and so the trap closes, leaving no possibility for the undercrowded server to ever turn tides.
I think a mildly populated group should be able to take more than sentries or camps, but it’s hard to counter the sheer “effect of numbers” that leads to blobs.
Unless you were considering that, objectives not being the main issue, players will fight each other more.
Create a waypoint at towers when fully upraded. Teleporting into the towers is allowed only to those who contributed in claiming/defending/upgrading the towers.
Tower waypoints may be redundant, even if I think it’d help. Teleporting into towers even contested raises the blob issue again.
I’d also like to ask to implement a panel showing how individual players contributed in earning WvW points, like that of sPvP, at the end of every skirmish. The players would like to know who’s on the top list roaming, scouting, killing, and commanding. We can commend those with the highest impact by tipping them badges of honor.
There’s a common issue with your “porting permissions” : how do you keep track of that ? Just take the defend objectives daily. It often fails, even if you’re in an objective, actively fighting, using siege or whatever. The only reliable way I found to get it is repair a wall/door while timer is on.
In the “scouting” case, there isn’t even an event for that ! It’d be really hard to imagine a bot that’d understand that being in a structure, taking camps, and sending specific messages (in specific cases) is a particular task to be tracked.
There’s a strong issue in keeping track of “who does what”, but I acknowledge it’d be nice to keep a track of people contributing, and reward them.
It’s already effectively impossible to take an objective if it’s defended by a critical mass. 50 vs 50 at T3 garri, ya the garri is not falling, at least not for several hours.
Insanely hard to cap objectives favor blobs. When HoT came out, structures automatically upgraded and trying to solo/small group cap anything was a horrific pain. And then there were the barricades….
A few defenders that know what they’re doing can already made an upgraded structure much harder to take.
For once you have tasted flight you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards,
for there you have been and there you will long to return.
for there you have been and there you will long to return.
although it might be fun the big danger with this is a long fight over a structure is prone to pull a big 3 way fight. Most of us have been in a T1 SM fight by now & know what that does to the servers.
it’s tough but WvW in general needs more reasons to run in groups bigger than roaming but <20, maybe favour organisation over just throwing more bodies at a problem.
Trust me its not fun sieging forever.been playing in 2012 – 2013 where gates and walls had way more hp and siege did less dmg.Certain sieges lasted forever,and it just got incredibly boring at a point,especially if the opposing server sits inside on a ton of siege not coming out for the complete duration of the siege on the object.
Whenever Anet has buffed defense, players have needed to bring bigger blobs on offense to counter. Think of it as power creep for siege wars and never wish for it again.
Chaba Tangnu
Founding member of [NERF] Fort Engineer and driver for [TLC] The Legion of Charrs
RIP [SIC] Strident Iconoclast
Founding member of [NERF] Fort Engineer and driver for [TLC] The Legion of Charrs
RIP [SIC] Strident Iconoclast
I always thought, similar to a lord, that a wall or gate hit points should increase based on the enemy zerg calculated to be near by.
A small team or roaming crew should not have to suffer anymore than they already have because of the karma train lovers and HoT introduction.
Dtox
Stat scaling and such doesn’t fix the core problem, a defended wall with lots of siege inside is still easier to hold than to attack when the group sizes are similar. Stats wise, defenders will always have an advantage by turtling, and that is NEVER a healthy design. Except for one thing, gates should always be weaker than walls, as the risk/reward of having ALL the structure siege pointed at it (plus boiling oil) should be better.
Of course, logically you need to greatly outnumber a fortified group in order to take any structure as they would confer huge advantages to the defending force. So to avoid this, we need to make it about who controls the surrounding area (aka a true siege), and therefore the supply.
Supply management should be the key to any of the sieges since we do not have true asymmetric warfare. Repairing walls and gates should be effective, but siege should have a supply upkeep (based on time before despawn). Of course, actively using siege can prevent the costs from being incurred, but no one will camp siege for that long =P.
So now you need supply in all keeps/towers for defense since you gotta maintain siege for defense. 2 camps per keep is too few and is too easily defended (the camp south of alpine bay is super choke pointy and very close to the keep), but once you lose one, it cuts off 50% of your supply (huge reduction for minimal effort). How to fix this? Add more camps to the SIDES of the keeps (example: further west for bay). 4 camps per keep would be good, all within treb range of the structure. Ideally, holding only 50% of the camps would lead to a tie/stalemate during a siege (spend as much as attackers use as well). If an attacking force is able to hold at least 3 camps, they should put a major dent in the defensive forces structure and damage their defensive siege. As a side note, yaks should instead grant 25/50 supply per yak (down from 35/70). With 4 camps there is more supply to go around but only if supply lines are held.
With more camps to hold, we can also change the defender dynamics as well. You all know about the guild aura and how it gives pretty huge stat boosts to defenders right? Well, we can make the stats scale based off of the number of camps held, so the defenders are getting starved out more and more, while the offense gains more and more supply chains to feed their forces. Only camps without RI count, and camp auras still have their full effect (but are extremely localized so they help you hold the camp, but not break into the keep).
Another thing is that camps should have waypoints. Since we are expanding the map, mobility is more valuable, so why not tie it to objectives? Camps should gain a waypoint immediately as long as RI is not up, representing a connected supply chain. So no, you cant just flip a camp then port all your golems to it unless you defend for 5 minutes (you can contest RI camps so even when it runs out, waypoint will be contested). If offense holds a camp, they can acquire superior mobility compared to defenders, representing a good hold on the area. Camps owned by the defenders allow you to respawn and reinforce areas without running from spawn unless contested by proper havoc groups (remember there’s 4 camps per keep in this change) or zergs that are able to split (USE THOSE SUB GROUPS!)
Zerging around to each camp becomes incredibly inefficient since as you hit one, the others are still available for use by the opponent. You should try splitting your forces to suppress the enemy. With more respawn points, you can get back to the action quicker and acquire more bags, but so can your opponent. Additionally, even if greatly outnumbered, there’s more areas for small groups to manuever through and more small scale objectives to flip, which means more loot for everyone!
tl;dr: Supply driven siege warfare that enables more bags, more mobility, and breaks up the omniblobs.
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I always thought, similar to a lord, that a wall or gate hit points should increase based on the enemy zerg calculated to be near by.
A small team or roaming crew should not have to suffer anymore than they already have because of the karma train lovers and HoT introduction.
That would be kind of cool in a way if they did that to gates/walls too but I could see a problem with it that could act as a workaround for zergs – they could just stand out of range from the area and just let a few people set up siege and wait for them to break in so they don’t trigger the scaling (also long range siege).
Trust me its not fun sieging forever.been playing in 2012 – 2013 where gates and walls had way more hp and siege did less dmg.Certain sieges lasted forever,and it just got incredibly boring at a point,especially if the opposing server sits inside on a ton of siege not coming out for the complete duration of the siege on the object.
Anet hadnt boosted the arrowcart damage by ~100% back then though.
“Make it insanely hard to cap” — now this is a really GREAT ideea!
You know, when the capping “circle is up”, how much that lasts? 5 seconds or so? Make it 3 minutes overall (any number, subject to be tweaked until an ideal value is found), but longer if that it is a T3 keep, and keep it as it is, if it’s a sentry for example. Adjust based on the objective value (camp, tower, aso), upgrade level, and most importantly: based on the distance from spawn (give more time on desert bl, test it how much is needed). Also add a 30s loading time that your game needs when porting from another map (this value varies)
This way the defenders will always have time to run there and try to defend. The attackers can still split and attack multiple objectives at once, forcing blobs to form multiple smaller groups, or they will lose multiple objectives while gaining one.
This will help reducing lag too. Will bring in action, since you will have time to fight at each objective that is under attack. No more “karma train”, ever, unless there are no defenders at all… in which case is the same situation like it is now, so won’t be worse.
You could even remove gates and allow constant enemy access into every objective. WvW won’t feel as dead as it is now. Objectives would require defending or at least watching over… but for a start just keep gates, one change at a time.
Increasing capping timers shouldn’t be something you have to work for ages in secret. Instead work on new metrics, to achieve server balancing based on merits and contribution and K/D rating and more, and not on overall sheer numbers.
A wandering ronin, employed by [ENMA]
“make it insanely hard to cap”
They tried that, it was called the desert borderlands, and we all hate it. Learn to defend your points or learn to backcap, the game mode is about coverage not gvgvgvgvgvgvgvgvgvg ex dee.
“make it insanely hard to cap”
They tried that, it was called the desert borderlands, and we all hate it. Learn to defend your points or learn to backcap, the game mode is about coverage not gvgvgvgvgvgvgvgvgvg ex dee.
It is hard to cap anything at desert bordeland? It’s the same as everywhere. Now if the circle would stay up (the one after the lord or NPC’s are gone) for 10minutes… that would be different. Still very boring if nobody will come to defend. Even more boring. Capping is just boring… Has to be a conflict there, a reason to want to cap it and defend it: rewards, realm ranking, and more. This boring dead cap and move to next is more boring than PvE, reasons are needed to do it… given by the game.
Btw it is explained anywhere in wiki or anything, why to do it? For “fun”? For a PPT that is manually fixed and leads to nowhere? For… really, why to cap? Why to defend? Realm pride was removed, realm rewards never existed, the loot always was just junk compared to far easier PvE content… I did it for those rare fights that sometimes happened, but those are scarce now, though still fun.
Give us reasons to “cap” those things. To care about all those objectives. Something. Anything. We are worse than the GvG’s you didn’t like at south camp: they at least enjoyed fighting each other.
A wandering ronin, employed by [ENMA]
I foud that running PPT train is not much rewarding at the moment. It will eventually get flipped back. Can you consider making it INSANELY HARD to get the towers/keeps/castles? This will naturally make the WvW more competitive place.
Create a waypoint at towers when fully upraded. Teleporting into the towers is allowed only to those who contributed in claiming/defending/upgrading the towers.
I’d also like to ask to implement a panel showing how individual players contributed in earning WvW points, like that of sPvP, at the end of every skirmish. The players would like to know who’s on the top list roaming, scouting, killing, and commanding. We can commend those with the highest impact by tipping them badges of honor.
Why don’t you try fighting and defending what you flipped rather than Ktraining? Gasp! Fight other players? God forbid.
Your second idea just sound like a huge can of worms that is ripe for bullying and flaming. If you can’t already tell who’s contributing and who isn’t, then you aren’t a very experienced player. WvW is about a large group pvp environment. We have gotten better reward tracks in the past to help compensate for the massive cost of WvW. This isn’t a game mode to just grind rewards from. It’s about fights, fun, and winning. If you want to just Ktrain and grind stuff, go to EotM or a less populated server where you won’t run into people.
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I foud that running PPT train is not much rewarding at the moment. It will eventually get flipped back. Can you consider making it INSANELY HARD to get the towers/keeps/castles? This will naturally make the WvW more competitive place.
Create a waypoint at towers when fully upraded. Teleporting into the towers is allowed only to those who contributed in claiming/defending/upgrading the towers.
I’d also like to ask to implement a panel showing how individual players contributed in earning WvW points, like that of sPvP, at the end of every skirmish. The players would like to know who’s on the top list roaming, scouting, killing, and commanding. We can commend those with the highest impact by tipping them badges of honor.
Why don’t you try fighting and defending what you flipped rather than Ktraining? Gasp! Fight other players? God forbid.
Your second idea just sound like a huge can of worms that is ripe for bullying and flaming. If you can’t already tell who’s contributing and who isn’t, then you aren’t a very experienced player. WvW is about a large group pvp environment. We have gotten better reward tracks in the past to help compensate for the massive cost of WvW. This isn’t a game mode to just grind rewards from. It’s about fights, fun, and winning. If you want to just Ktrain and grind stuff, go to EotM or a less populated server where you won’t run into people.
Fight other players?! Being on a “fight server” with guilds that dont defend, only want to fight in open field and slap the PPT kitten label on anyone that disagree with them… I will still see 30+ of them AFK on border spawns while we dont even have enough people out to fight off 2 enemies trying to cap our border camp.
Its just the way WvW is. People are weird.