Guild Wars 2

Snowreap’s predictions are in. The matchup stagnation is real, the matchups are locked for T1, and T2. Even T3 is guarranteed to have a DB, MAG matchup, just different probabilities for the 3rd server.

I had hopes that the wall was coming down between T1 and T2 at least, but I guess not.

NA has 3 times the glicko difference between #1 and #9 that EU has.

TC wasn’t pushed hard enough to break the wall this week. Likewise, FA didn’t push SOS/YB hard enough to gain rating. It’s boring, but not much that can be done.

What worries me the most is that through the entire tiers, CD is 48% to get same match-up, And T8 is a pretty even shot which of the 4 servers gets to play with T7. Outside of that, there is 50%++ chance of keeping the SAME match-ups through entire NA.

It is official, WvW players hate change, and wants to meet the same servers day in and day out every week, every month. I can feel the love in the match-up threads already.

*grabs popcorn*

How GvG/ Ranked 20v20 Deathmatch, will work without drawing population out of WvW.

(Details can be sorted and tweaked, just general ideas)

Option 1: Have a league system were guild register and can only play 1 game a day against the side they are matched up against in the current league fixture list.

Option 2: A free forming rank system where guilds are randomly placed, in a best of 5 rounds per day.

Option 3: A Challenge system where guild challenge each other on the leader board with 1 ranked game and 1 unranked per day.

Option 4: Every Night a guild is chosen from your server to be the champions of that server and face the other champions chosen by other servers to face of and win points/score for your wvw server.

A Few Ideas tell me what you think.

I ment….

League System. 3 leagues 9 servers in each with promotion and relegation of bottom and top 2 server each month.
(should be able to get fair match ups with 5 weeks of matchmaking)
3 points for First 2 for second and 1 for third.
Any ideas?/Thoughts?

I like some of these ideas.

I still think there should be sort of manual assistance or player based voting
that can enhance the direction of the movement of the server.

So [Glicko ] x [Player voting/Anet manual input] = Next week fights
*70 from there *30% from players/anet = Next weeks fight

This will create some chance for the tiers that are locked in place.

I like the idea of movement. What I don’t like is the idea of horribly skewed matches week after week.

I kinda get into the idea of winner-up/loser-down. Obviously there is no place for the T1 winner to go, and vice versa the T8 loser, but all through the tiers you would get some movement.

How would FA do against BG and JQ? SoS against SBI and HoD? Mag against YB and TC? These are questions that I think would make the intra-tier and inter-tier participants look forward to with anticipation. And if they result in terrible matches well….questions answered I guess.

It messed too badly with EU, I think, when the glicko was relaxed. Made for some interesting NA matches, though! Of course, I think glicko still needs to be reset and we place everyone according to their current populations. Might be different, might be the same, but maybe the scores would be a bit closer.

This may be radical but they need to do away with the server based system entirely (since servers mean nothing now anyways). Distribute guilds across matchups based on population and performance and have guild based ratings and reward systems.

MaximillianVonSchatten.6278:

This may be radical but they need to do away with the server based system entirely (since servers mean nothing now anyways). Distribute guilds across matchups based on population and performance and have guild based ratings and reward systems.

What about players who are not in guilds?

MaximillianVonSchatten.6278:

This may be radical but they need to do away with the server based system entirely (since servers mean nothing now anyways). Distribute guilds across matchups based on population and performance and have guild based ratings and reward systems.

Your guild “performance” index would need to include a whole lot of information, like:
successful defense, capture, escort, claimed objectives (frequency and duration of active claiming) peaks and troughs for their numbers over time, maybe even the MAPS they play on. Pretty complicated.

Kaiser.9873:

How would FA do against BG and JQ? SoS against SBI and HoD? Mag against YB and TC? These are questions that I think would make the intra-tier and inter-tier participants look forward to with anticipation. And if they result in terrible matches well….questions answered I guess.

They really need to shorten the matches. Weeklong matches are too long.

The matches you mentioned would be great – but only on a shorter timescale. A weeklong match with Sos/SBI/HoD would be horrible. But I could deal with it for a couple of days.

They should shorten the matches to 72 hours (or something). That way you could also have resets in other timezones. Give players around the world the experience of reset.

People always talking about how it “punishes” players if you were to change something in "night"capping threads. Well players in non-prime time timezones are being punished now. They don’t get to experience the awesomeness of reset. Seriously why don’t people complain about that? If I didn’t live in NA Prime I would be upset. Reset is the most awesome time to play.

I agree with what Johje is saying and I suggested this in another thread.. shorten the matches.

Shorten the matches or only count PPT when the numbers are semi-even on the map (within 10 players). If the numbers aren’t even or within 10 players overall, PPT freezes and loot rewards take it’s place based on how many structures your server owns.

Do this and we’ll have solved 3 problems: Stagnation, the loot issue, and the coverage issue. There are some servers that thrive when they outmatch their opponent but are terrible when it’s an even fight; base the PPT on even or semi-even fights. You will find some stacked servers nosediving in the rankings which is a good thing, numbers will even out.

Players themselves should be able to easily organize this; if they want their PPT to count, all form on one map and fight with even numbers. None of this run the empty map with golems or PvD when players aren’t around (unless you want loot).

Shorten the matches? I doubt it, they need to lengthen them. As far as I am concerned, there is little reward deserved for little more then being good out of the gate. If your server cannot compete for the long haul, it doesn’t deserve to win.

Trying to create all of these artificial processes such as jerry mandering reset times and match durations. You are going out of your way to demand artificial efforts as a means to try to hold others back, or give someone else an edge. Why not win on merits of the system alone?

As well, you cannot cry “coverage issue” in the same post that you cry “stagnation”. You can have the most equivalent population match up, or you can have matches against different servers every week. You cannot have both.

Johje Holan.4607:

People always talking about how it “punishes” players if you were to change something in "night"capping threads. Well players in non-prime time timezones are being punished now. They don’t get to experience the awesomeness of reset. Seriously why don’t people complain about that? If I didn’t live in NA Prime I would be upset. Reset is the most awesome time to play.

Not so much punishing, really. It has more to do with the fact that you prefer to change the rules to suit your personal needs, with a clear disregard of how that effects anyone else. You see, nothing at all is stopping you from playing, or organizing others to play during your so called “night capping”. You make a choice to log off or not log on during those hours, then go on to demand they change the game and the rules around that.

I agree, the matches need to be longer, not shorter.

T1 winner could go to T8.

T8 loser to T1

Then we would have matchup variety for several weeks afterwards….

What fun would a T8 server have playing two with T1 populations? Just think about that for a second.

elkirin.8534:

T1 winner could go to T8.

T8 loser to T1

Then we would have matchup variety for several weeks afterwards….

And even more topics on this forum about population imbalance……..

I was always a fan of the one up one down idea, you get a guaranteed new match up every week, the winners get to test their strength in the tier above them and not randomly dumped two tiers above them.

You get access to more guilds and players and tactics to face, hell it would probably help the gvg scene stick around when you get to face a new opponents every week. T1NA hasn’t had any movement in over a year, I think we can declare the current system as broken and pointless, just dump the glicko rating system already.

I don’t agree to increase the duration in matches, in some cases like T1 and 2 now it would make no difference, in other cases it could potentially drive players away from wvw, when they see how badly their server is losing a matchup with the end of it being another 2 or 3 weeks? I mean look at T3 recently with IOJ and NSP they were stuck constantly facing the rotating T2 servers for months and a lot of their players took time off or transferred off. We don’t need to discourage more players leaving.

They could go shorter matches but that isn’t going to let other timezones experience reset, they would probably do it every 3 days reset at the same 9pm est. Shorter matches could give servers some drive to push more times per week, instead of just weekends, or it may just burn people out faster.

In the end the match lengths really mean nothing if the rewards for winning still suck and have no meaning. I mean they give out chests depending on where you placed, but I can go kill an elite boss and get the same chest and would probably only take 10 mins.

How about giving out the usual chests, giving out the wvw buff to the winners (the spvp one gets thrown out there whenever they have an event which is often now), giving out the season tickets to get the wvw skins(why isn’t there a new season running right now anet?). Some of this might encourage people to stack some servers like BG or JQ for the rewards, but that’s ok, it might even encourage players to destack and go to other servers too when they have to deal with long queue times.

Anyways that was longer than I wanted lol.

One up One down system needs to be implemented!

This a thread regarding matchup stagnation.

IMHO, It is easy to remove stagnation but difficult to do so without unbalanced matchups.

Choose which you prefer. My Tongue in cheek suggestion that the winner goes up loser goes down includes T1 winner going to T8 and t8 loser going down/up to T1 also cuts to the heart of the stagnation issue.

Once the point of stacking to win/remain in T1 is removed, people would be free to quit the game or transfer. Of course it would also disrupt any potential “fights only Tiers” and would constantly have all the tiers in movement/disarray.

IE it would likely solve matchup stagnation…..

When I made this post a week ago, it was not my intention to suggest that there is anything inherently wrong with the glicko system. The matchups are stagnating because there are large glicko gaps developing on the NA servers between the different tiers. On the EU servers there is a more gradual progression of glicko resulting in more varied matchups.

I am not sure why the two server groups reached such different glicko distribution, but I have suspicions that a lot of it is being caused by where WvWers are going. Since a lot of the action is concentrated in the higher tiers, players are pooling there.

For instance: on NA servers a massive numbers disparity between T2 and T3 developed, causing lopsided matchups in T3 that widened the gap between the tiers. The gap will close as DB hemorrhages glicko, but it will take time.

The gap between T1 and T2, I fear may not be crossed, servers being what they are. The glicko gap is huge, and FA has gained about as much glicko as it can in T2.

TheSongBringer.2834:

When I made this post a week ago, it was not my intention to suggest that there is anything inherently wrong with the glicko system. The matchups are stagnating because there are large glicko gaps developing on the NA servers between the different tiers. On the EU servers there is a more gradual progression of glicko resulting in more varied matchups.

The gaps are there because there is a flux of players transferring between servers. Causing disparity in the points, within servers on the same tier.

It is 100% a player base caused issue in my opinion.

TheSongBringer.2834:

I am not sure why the two server groups reached such different glicko distribution, but I have suspicions that a lot of it is being caused by where WvWers are going. Since a lot of the action is concentrated in the higher tiers, players are pooling there.

Precisely. This kind of harkens back to what I said above.

TheSongBringer.2834:

For instance: on NA servers a massive numbers disparity between T2 and T3 developed, causing lopsided matchups in T3 that widened the gap between the tiers. The gap will close as DB hemorrhages glicko, but it will take time.

The gap between T1 and T2, I fear may not be crossed, servers being what they are. The glicko gap is huge, and FA has gained about as much glicko as it can in T2.

Again, this is all cause by players moving between server week to week. Not much that can be done about it.

It’s not ‘100% a player base caused issue’. The gaps are there because there are too many servers for the number of players that actively take part in the neglected wvw form of the game, which leads to transfers to busier servers which leads to more disparity between servers. The neglect of the game mode isn’t the player’s fault- Anet made the decision to promote spvp over wvw and that’s where the resources went. leaving wvw to stagnate with bad rewards, bugs, hacks and a terrible achievement system that is laughable if it wasn’t for the fact it has still not been changed after 3 YEARS.

Might be interesting to compare %ages of populations that play wvw now as compared to 3 years ago.

It’s no real surprise that people would rather play on a server that has a good active wvw population, rather than sit on a totally green map all night in the hope a roamer might decide to play for the other server for 5 minutes and let you add one kill for your 5 hours of game time (that you hoped would be fun).

If the t1 servers would stop match fixing and win sharing glicko match would work as it should and t1 would not be lock as it is now t1 is so rigged and boring anet refuses To fix the cheating on three top severs wvw will be broken until then

pandora.8475:

If the t1 servers would stop match fixing and win sharing glicko match would work as it should and t1 would not be lock as it is now t1 is so rigged and boring anet refuses To fix the cheating on three top severs wvw will be broken until then

It’s not cheating, but it is shady as can be. You have seen it week after week. BG loses a week drops some Glicko, and all of a sudden they win the next week regaining all the Glicko they lost before. TC loses a week or two in a row, then win to regain the Glicko they lost the prior two weeks. They call them, “Push Weeks” up there, which is a wonderful euphemism for win trading. TC wouldn’t last up there for very long should JQ and BG actually play, but I guess they like the stagnation.