Guild Wars 2

Please make us a favor and remove all the PvE mechanic of lords in desert borderlands.

Specially the one in air keep, causing hate to people not using the exploit to easy kill that lord, it’s an 100% sure flaming to people trying to normally kill that lord. Disgusting.

WvW is about PvP, players are the most important part of WvW maps, we don’t need annoying lords doing unnecessary things. Just copy and paste lords from original borderlands, or remove that map completely.

Reflect is hard cause no one has it.

Walls and gates are part of the environment as well, what do you think about those?

I’m having a lot of trouble understanding your second paragraph. Specifically, “it’s an 100% sure flaming to people trying to normally kill that lord” doesn’t make much sense to me.

More generally, while WvW is about people, it is also about territory. There is some territory where one team has an advantage and some territory where another team has it. Lord rooms are meant to give a significant advantage in combat to the home team. Lords are literally the last line of defense. Thus, unless the lord is an actual factor in the fight, it isn’t doing its job.

You can argue that you don’t like the manner in which the NPC accomplishes this, but there’s no point saying that it shouldn’t factor in at all.

Desert BL is garbage, stands to reason the PVE would be stronk.

NeHoMaR.9812:

Please make us a favor and remove all the PvE mechanic of lords in desert borderlands.

Specially the one in air keep, causing hate to people not using the exploit to easy kill that lord, it’s an 100% sure flaming to people trying to normally kill that lord. Disgusting.

WvW is about PvP, players are the most important part of WvW maps, we don’t need annoying lords doing unnecessary things. Just copy and paste lords from original borderlands, or remove that map completely.

Short translation: make lords in desert bl just as generic and boring as they are everywhere else because we’re dedicated wvw-ers who cannot be bothered with such trivial stuff as game mechanics.

Sarcasm aside, I fail to see a difference between using the lord’s attack mechanics to your advantage and climbing on a wall when defending. Both aren’t players, both are part of the map/game design. So following your logic, we don’t need either of them. Just remove all terrain features and let players fight on a plane, because this mode is about players fighting each other, right? And it will be more fun, right? Right? Oh well, I failed to put sarcasm aside.

Sviel.7493:

More generally, while WvW is about people, it is also about territory. There is some territory where one team has an advantage and some territory where another team has it. Lord rooms are meant to give a significant advantage in combat to the home team. Lords are literally the last line of defense. Thus, unless the lord is an actual factor in the fight, it isn’t doing its job.

You can argue that you don’t like the manner in which the NPC accomplishes this, but there’s no point saying that it shouldn’t factor in at all.

That people doing (on air keep lord) is an EXPLOIT, not intended way to kill that lord.

The mechanic of SM lord is the obvious way to go, it’s how it should be in all lords, the more people, the more HP, he doesn’t move, it’s just a sponge of damage, the tactic is prevent players to capture, you focus entirely on killing players (and managing/killing siege), that’s the soul of WvW, not fighting annoying lords.

Sviel.7493:

I’m having a lot of trouble understanding your second paragraph. Specifically, “it’s an 100% sure flaming to people trying to normally kill that lord” doesn’t make much sense to me.

How frequently you play WvW? specifically desert borderlands? People not doing the exploit to kill that lord is flamed and hated, kicked of squad, etc.

Dinas Dragonbane.2978:

Walls and gates are part of the environment as well, what do you think about those?

Part of the tactic, and part of the fun. Impossible to say the same of that teleporting jumping with unnecessary PvE CC annoying lords, that is NOT fun, just ask people, make a poll. That mechanics should be for PvE only maps, not for PvP.

Trajan.4953:

Desert BL is garbage, stands to reason the PVE would be stronk.

I agree 100%, but is already discussed a lot in the forums, ArenaNet decided to punish the red team with that map. Not sure if they want to just delete the map now.

Feanor.2358:

Short translation: make lords in desert bl just as generic and boring as they are everywhere else because we’re dedicated wvw-ers who cannot be bothered with such trivial stuff as game mechanics.

Sarcasm aside…

Actually, is not a sarcasm, it’s a PERFECT description of what I am trying to say.

Feanor.2358:

I fail to see a difference between using the lord’s attack mechanics to your advantage and climbing on a wall when defending. Both aren’t players, both are part of the map/game design. So following your logic, we don’t need either of them. Just remove all terrain features and let players fight on a plane, because this mode is about players fighting each other, right? And it will be more fun, right? Right? Oh well, I failed to put sarcasm aside.

Walls are not annoying.

*"Annoying" is subjective. You cannot possibly hope the game to be tailored exactly to your subjective tastes, can you?

P.S. Oh yes, it is sarcasm. Probably you missed its point, though.

Only thing that needs changing is the fire lord, that thing has so much fear and knockbacks it’s insane. Either tune up earth and air keep lords to its level of tune her down but the disparity between fire and the others is insane.

Feanor.2358:

“Annoying” is subjective. You cannot possibly hope the game to be tailored exactly to your subjective tastes, can you?

I’d be surprised to see the majority of wvw players say that the DBL keep lords aren’t annoying. Especially the air keep lords stability stripping ring and annoying teleportation. And this is after it was nerfed too.

Lahmia.2193:

Feanor.2358:

“Annoying” is subjective. You cannot possibly hope the game to be tailored exactly to your subjective tastes, can you?

I’d be surprised to see the majority of wvw players say that the DBL keep lords aren’t annoying. Especially the air keep lords stability stripping ring and annoying teleportation. And this is after it was nerfed too.

I don’t find air keep lord that bad, just stay in the ring, though it sucks if it’s in the middle of a zerg fight, it encourages dealing with the enemy players first. I’ve literally defended fire keep with a fraction of the players as the enemy zergs purely because of how much CC it fires off.

Earth keep is by far the weakest lord, that thing could be replaced with a scaled up risen from Orr and be more difficult.

Lahmia.2193:

Feanor.2358:

“Annoying” is subjective. You cannot possibly hope the game to be tailored exactly to your subjective tastes, can you?

I’d be surprised to see the majority of wvw players say that the DBL keep lords aren’t annoying. Especially the air keep lords stability stripping ring and annoying teleportation. And this is after it was nerfed too.

I am starting to think Feanor.2358 is trying to troll me or something, it’s not “subjective”, it IS annoying for 100% of players, it’s a fact, as the sun emits light. It’s so obvious, no one want to fight that annoying lords, people do it because there are no alternative.

Are you talking about the pull to the platform edge strat? If so, that’s not an exploit. It’s just smart…

NeHoMaR.9812:

Please make us a favor and remove all the PvE mechanic of lords in desert borderlands.

Specially the one in air keep, causing hate to people not using the exploit to easy kill that lord, it’s an 100% sure flaming to people trying to normally kill that lord. Disgusting.

WvW is about PvP, players are the most important part of WvW maps, we don’t need annoying lords doing unnecessary things. Just copy and paste lords from original borderlands, or remove that map completely.

WvW is a blend of both otherwise all NPC’s and objectives should be removed.

If you removed the PvE aspects, there’d be no lords or guards. Hooray for karma trains.

Just learn to play, you can beat that lord easily with 3 players.

NeHoMaR.9812:

it’s not “subjective”, it IS annoying for 100% of players

If only claiming something in caps would make it true. I like Desert BL lords exactly because they aren’t just another punchbag. There goes your 100%.

apharma.3741:

Only thing that needs changing is the fire lord, that thing has so much fear and knockbacks it’s insane. Either tune up earth and air keep lords to its level of tune her down but the disparity between fire and the others is insane.

Air lord was on par with fire one before they took out all those wind turrets around lords room, thankfully.

The problem was ascertaining what the wording of your statement meant, but I get it now.

Still…do you want the exploit removed, or do you want the lord turned into an EBG potato? These are two very different things.

This thread wreaks of “I can’t solo kill capture this structure, ANET pls nerf it so I can do something that wasn’t designed for me to do in the first place.”

On one hand, I agree with the fact that every tower + keep lord, Lykesh and that Earth lord put aside are huge CC spammers. Typical ANet design : nerf stability for players and roughly at the same time, enforce mechanics that require tremendous amounts of stability to be countered. A bit of toning down would be nice, and it’s a good thing to me.

On the other hand, ABL lords are mere punching bag with no specificity altogether (every tower lord is the same, e.g.) and no use against anyone. As aphrma said, the lord can be really helpful for outmanned defenders.

Used to be a Druid on Vabbi before linking who’d regularly solo those keeps. Try taking fewer people.

I could be wrong here. But I think these Lords are designed to be harder/more annoying. The DBL is larger than the regular BL’s. Anet may have designed it so it takes longer to kill a Lord, in a attempt to give the defenders a proper chance to respond? I know for Air keep if your group stacks the Lord will stay on you for the most part as well, so tactics take part in this as well I would guess.

Maybe I’m a minority here but I’m of the mind that the keep lord should have very little impact on the fight.

Lahmia.2193:

Maybe I’m a minority here but I’m of the mind that the keep lord should have very little impact on the fight.

As I said, 100% think DBL lords are annoying, don’t let trolls, and people misunderstanding my post, confuse you.

The HoT expansion added all that things to PvE, that’s ok, because on PvE everybody is your ally, you don’t need to worry about 120 players trying to kill you.

NeHoMaR.9812:

Lahmia.2193:

Maybe I’m a minority here but I’m of the mind that the keep lord should have very little impact on the fight.

As I said, 100% think DBL lords are annoying, don’t let trolls, and people misunderstanding my post, confuse you.

The HoT expansion added all that things to PvE, that’s ok, because on PvE everybody is your ally, you don’t need to worry about 120 players trying to kill you.

I don’t think DBL lords are annoying. I like fighting them way more than the potato lords in ABL and EBG, because I have a working brain and I am not completely undone by a minimal amount of boss mechanics. And I only play WvW. So once again, there goes your “100%” , please don’t make claims based on nothing, it severely weakens your already fragile argument.

Turk.5460:

NeHoMaR.9812:

Lahmia.2193:

Maybe I’m a minority here but I’m of the mind that the keep lord should have very little impact on the fight.

As I said, 100% think DBL lords are annoying, don’t let trolls, and people misunderstanding my post, confuse you.

The HoT expansion added all that things to PvE, that’s ok, because on PvE everybody is your ally, you don’t need to worry about 120 players trying to kill you.

I don’t think DBL lords are annoying. I like fighting them way more than the potato lords in ABL and EBG, because I have a working brain and I am not completely undone by a minimal amount of boss mechanics. And I only play WvW. So once again, there goes your “100%” , please don’t make claims based on nothing, it severely weakens your already fragile argument.

On the flip side of that, I’ve yet to see someone in game that actually likes the DBL keep lords. Are they hard to kill? No. Are they a pain in the kitten when an enemy zerg engages you? Yes. And yes I know experienced groups will move away from lords room when this happens, but that just shows they are detrimental to the tactics an attacking commander can use. In other keeps and SMC, attacking zergs can bunker inside the lord room because the lords themselves have very little impact on the fight itself, as (in my opinion) it should be.

Turk.5460:

I like fighting them.

Ok, I respect your opinion, but that’s really hard to believe; Maybe the first 10 times you kill them, but after 10000 times …

Lahmia.2193:

… In other keeps and SMC, attacking zergs can bunker inside the lord room because the lords themselves have very little impact on the fight itself, as (in my opinion) it should be.

Exactly.

The lord is the final line of defense.
If a structure is breached by larger numbers the smaller group may rely on that lord’s mechanics to give them a small chance at not losing the structure, or at least not losing it as fast.
I don’t see any of the DBL lords as overpowered.

~ Kovu

NeHoMaR.9812:

Turk.5460:

I like fighting them.

Ok, I respect your opinion, but that’s really hard to believe; Maybe the first 10 times you kill them, but after 10000 times …

Lahmia.2193:

… In other keeps and SMC, attacking zergs can bunker inside the lord room because the lords themselves have very little impact on the fight itself, as (in my opinion) it should be.

Exactly.

It doesn’t seem like you respect anyone’s opinion other than your own, as you’ve made clear in this thread. You’re simply looking for people to agree with you, not debate with you.

Let me make this perfectly clear: I enjoy fighting DBL keep lords and tower lords. Their mechanics are fun for me, every time I fight them. The same goes for many of my friends and guildmates. On top of that, why should my opponents lose their defensive advantage just because I broke a wall or gate? It sounds like you want PvP. There is a whole game mode dedicated to that, btw.

I have to admit, I get a real kick out of duoing the firekeep lord. I haven’t had a chance to try a full solo, but I was doing alright to about 50% of her health before help arrived, once.

As for this statement:

…that just shows they are detrimental to the tactics an attacking commander can use. In other keeps and SMC, attacking zergs can bunker inside the lord room because the lords themselves have very little impact on the fight itself, as (in my opinion) it should be.

Given that the lord is the ‘boss’ of the structure, it makes no sense to me that enemy zergs should be able to bunker in lord room and turn it into an advantageous situation for themselves. It’s ok if that’s a strategy they decide to employ, but the lord should be a significant drawback if they go that route.

Sviel.7493:

I have to admit, I get a real kick out of duoing the firekeep lord. I haven’t had a chance to try a full solo, but I was doing alright to about 50% of her health before help arrived, once.

As for this statement:

…that just shows they are detrimental to the tactics an attacking commander can use. In other keeps and SMC, attacking zergs can bunker inside the lord room because the lords themselves have very little impact on the fight itself, as (in my opinion) it should be.

Given that the lord is the ‘boss’ of the structure, it makes no sense to me that enemy zergs should be able to bunker in lord room and turn it into an advantageous situation for themselves. It’s ok if that’s a strategy they decide to employ, but the lord should be a significant drawback if they go that route.

Just imagine if SMC or any of the other keeps had the DBL keep lords. All those awesome lord room fights (some of the fondest memories I personally have of WvW), would never happen because it would be so detrimental to the attacker to fight near the lord.

How is a lord room fight any different from another fight? To you, that is. I’m not saying there isn’t a difference, but I want to more closely evaluate what it would mean to have a DBL lord in SMC.

Lahmia.2193:

Are they a pain in the kitten when an enemy zerg engages you? Yes. And yes I know experienced groups will move away from lords room when this happens, but that just shows they are detrimental to the tactics an attacking commander can use.

Almost as if that was the entire point or something.

Hyper Cutter.9376:

Lahmia.2193:

Are they a pain in the kitten when an enemy zerg engages you? Yes. And yes I know experienced groups will move away from lords room when this happens, but that just shows they are detrimental to the tactics an attacking commander can use.

Almost as if that was the entire point or something.

It makes for boring fights to be honest.

Lahmia.2193:

On the flip side of that, I’ve yet to see someone in game that actually likes the DBL keep lords. Are they hard to kill? No. Are they a pain in the kitten when an enemy zerg engages you? Yes. And yes I know experienced groups will move away from lords room when this happens, but that just shows they are detrimental to the tactics an attacking commander can use. In other keeps and SMC, attacking zergs can bunker inside the lord room because the lords themselves have very little impact on the fight itself, as (in my opinion) it should be.

Again, it’s just the same with walls and siege. ACs can be just as detrimental to the tactics of the attacking commander. Failing to account for this is just a commander’s mistake. And unlike ACs, lords are located at the same places and have the same mechanics.

Lords having an actual impact on the fight is the best thing we can have. Otherwise they serve no purpose at all. Just spawn the circle directly and increase the timer to account for the time you’d otherwise spend killing the lord. It would make no real difference.

NeHoMaR.9812:

Dinas Dragonbane.2978:

Walls and gates are part of the environment as well, what do you think about those?

Part of the tactic, and part of the fun. Impossible to say the same of that teleporting jumping with unnecessary PvE CC annoying lords, that is NOT fun, just ask people, make a poll. That mechanics should be for PvE only maps, not for PvP.

Sure there are defensive and offensive tactics regarding walls and that IS part of the fun, unless one side hopelessly outnumbers the other, then you’re just beating on a wall. The lord is the same way but actually can offer some bit of counterbalancing to help an outmanned defender stand a chance. Why should the fun stop with the structure itself?
Besides, just like there is strategy to where you place siege to attack or defend an objective, the lords of keeps should at least require SOME strategy to kill if some enemies are defending him.

It’s another ‘people defend pve in wvw’ episode.

Siege is trash. Npcs are trash. I’d like to at least sometimes get to fight players in this alleged pvp mode.

Coldtart.4785:

It’s another ‘people defend pve in wvw’ episode.

Siege is trash. Npcs are trash. I’d like to at least sometimes get to fight players in this alleged pvp mode.

And yet if they were removed you’d realize the mode became a lot less interesting.

Coldtart.4785:

It’s another ‘people defend pve in wvw’ episode.

Siege is trash. Npcs are trash. I’d like to at least sometimes get to fight players in this alleged pvp mode.

That’s the players fault in many ways though, all I see is run run run from most servers especially zergs. Many national servers in EU are well known for only fighting when they massively outnumber and even then it’s not uncommon to see 2 super ACs in the back.

Roamers are just as bad, always running from fair fights or refusing to fight without a tower to run into when their wombo combo fails. ANet can only shoulder some of the blame for people refusing to fight.

NeHoMaR.9812:

Lahmia.2193:

Maybe I’m a minority here but I’m of the mind that the keep lord should have very little impact on the fight.

As I said, 100% think DBL lords are annoying, don’t let trolls, and people misunderstanding my post, confuse you.

The HoT expansion added all that things to PvE, that’s ok, because on PvE everybody is your ally, you don’t need to worry about 120 players trying to kill you.

Just because someone disagrees with your subjective opinion does not make them trolls. Nor does it mean they are misunderstanding your post.

Take your “100% of people find x annoying” and smoke it. It is entirely false facts, which cannot be proven.

I prefer the dbl lords as they are more than mere punchbags. I would go so far as to say WvW would benefit from revamping all the npcs to make them more meaningful.

Artemis Thuras.8795:

I would go so far as to say WvW would benefit from revamping all the npcs to make them more meaningful.

Me too.

Coldtart.4785:

It’s another ‘people defend pve in wvw’ episode.

Siege is trash. Npcs are trash. I’d like to at least sometimes get to fight players in this alleged pvp mode.

Yeah, and while we’re at it lets get rid of any uneven terrain. It should all be flat! Oh and textures just get in the way, too. Please make all terrain flat and grayscale. No trees or LOS possibilities, please!

Game mechanics are too hard and we the wvwers strugle with their difficulty…

Feanor.2358:

Artemis Thuras.8795:

I would go so far as to say WvW would benefit from revamping all the npcs to make them more meaningful.

Me too.

Especially the Lord of the SMC. Was to be the most feared of all.