Guild Wars 2

Is anyone else of the opinion that non stealth melee is redundant in WvW? (Warrior/Guardian)

Ranged classes can do as much damage, as quick as (in some cases more quickly) than these classes and in groups down them before they get anywhere near the other players.

Too much ranged damage, and too much aoe is what creates the zergs we see in WvW now, no discerning damage just a curtain of arrows/meteors/bullets that hit for just as much damage as melee strikes. (4500 per volley, 8k killshot etc, 2k per meteor tick)

A survivability buff to melee wouldn’t go astray imo, what do you think?

I play a warrior and have no problems competing with any ranged class.

Please tell me you’re not a glass-cannon?

- Bloodsteel

It is a shame there is no PvP in WvW that doesn’t involve Zergs. ANet should place some other objectives to encourage more open field fighting of smaller groups.

o’wait

10/0/30/30/0 Guardian in Exotic Knight’s Draconic armor.

alanis.6094:

It is a shame there is no PvP in WvW that doesn’t involve Zergs. ANet should place some other objectives to encourage more open field fighting of smaller groups.

o’wait

oh wait nothing. the smaller objectives are so close to the ones that take a zerg to take that its really hard to stay mobile and NOT smack into the zerg. The maps are puny and too packed.

tarnin.1690:

alanis.6094:

It is a shame there is no PvP in WvW that doesn’t involve Zergs. ANet should place some other objectives to encourage more open field fighting of smaller groups.

o’wait

oh wait nothing. the smaller objectives are so close to the ones that take a zerg to take that its really hard to stay mobile and NOT smack into the zerg. The maps are puny and too packed.

It is exceedingly, amazingly, super easy for anyone that is half paying attention to avoid running into a zerg.

No such thing as “melee classes” or “ranged classes”. Unless you’re extremely specialized, I’d always recommend running a melee weapon and a ranged weapon in WvW so you can adapt to all situations.

It’s like I’m back in July again.

alanis.6094:

tarnin.1690:

alanis.6094:

It is a shame there is no PvP in WvW that doesn’t involve Zergs. ANet should place some other objectives to encourage more open field fighting of smaller groups.

o’wait

oh wait nothing. the smaller objectives are so close to the ones that take a zerg to take that its really hard to stay mobile and NOT smack into the zerg. The maps are puny and too packed.

It is exceedingly, amazingly, super easy for anyone that is half paying attention to avoid running into a zerg.

You must play on a small server. With the bg’s being capped there are hoards of people floating around. The map is so small with porting and multiple exits that its even hard to kill smaller groups/solos trying to get back to the zerg. The map needs to be larger on every W3 map, period. Roaming is like running circles in your living room trying to avoid the tv on every turn.

tarnin.1690:

alanis.6094:

tarnin.1690:

alanis.6094:

It is a shame there is no PvP in WvW that doesn’t involve Zergs. ANet should place some other objectives to encourage more open field fighting of smaller groups.

o’wait

oh wait nothing. the smaller objectives are so close to the ones that take a zerg to take that its really hard to stay mobile and NOT smack into the zerg. The maps are puny and too packed.

It is exceedingly, amazingly, super easy for anyone that is half paying attention to avoid running into a zerg.

You must play on a small server. With the bg’s being capped there are hoards of people floating around. The map is so small with porting and multiple exits that its even hard to kill smaller groups/solos trying to get back to the zerg. The map needs to be larger on every W3 map, period. Roaming is like running circles in your living room trying to avoid the tv on every turn.

[img]http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lvfaacB9Vf1qkz1ro.gif[/img]

People already don’t like have to run in borderlands…

@tarnin

I’m on SBI. Its super-easy for a group of 5-10 to avoid the zerg’s.

In real battles of the period you have the phase where the firing archers take out some of your melee, then cease firing for fear of hitting their own men (or should).

In gw2 w3 the archers, eles and gunners take out -most- of your melee, so it turns into two groups sitting there firing at each other with range weapons until one side has routed.

Too many ranged weapons, and they are too effective.

alanis.6094:

@tarnin

I’m on SBI. Its super-easy for a group of 5-10 to avoid the zerg’s.

10 isn’t a roaming group, or shouldn’t be. 5man is what a roaming group should be. You can avoid it for a certain amount of time but will always end up smashing into it because of the size of the maps. Not only that but the same loop over and over is boring. I would love larger maps where you COULD cut supply lines (people running back to defense/attack/zerg) but here you cannot. Just increase the size of the maps or cut out half the objectives so im not hitting a yak/camp/guard/tower/keep every minute.

Its not a problem at all. Like others said carry a melee and ranged weapon.

The main problem with people complaining about zergs (from a melee perspective) is that when a fight breaks out, they try to charge in without any help and get singled out by range before they can reach them.

And that’s their fault really. You need to use Flanking tactics, swiftness, and coordination with other Melees to charge together (possibly with some warriors or guardians in front with protection or shield rushing with the squishier melee behind them)

Use your head, use tactics, use Voice communication, use teamwork…and there is no problem.

Tell your Mesmer to feedback their range when you charge in. Tell your Mesmer to drop Chaos Wind once you get in melee range. Tell your Mesmer null field isn’t only for him/her.

Actually, you shouldn’t tell your Mesmer anything. Your Mesmer should already know the basic stuff.

Icarius.2189:

10/0/30/30/0 Guardian in Exotic Knight’s Draconic armor.

Another guard here, with ~3300 WvW kills, I have no issues with range. That’s what Judge’s Intervention is for. Plus Wall of Reflection = uber range canon.

Melee just needs to know when to swoop in for the hits and when to dodge out and switch to a ranged weapon. You should never rely solely on your melee weapons in WvW.

I would agree that glass cannon melees (other than thieves) probably have no place in WvW b/c you’re just asking to get stomped then.

Carry melee and a bow. I’m far from cap level, but often run in to get the opposition to blow their bigger cooldowns. Run in, cause some havoc, blow my 3seconds of invulnerability, run on out dodging. Unless their zerg is noticeable larger. I’ve just caused a cool down blowout which let’s my team to push. If I fail i’ve been rooted for too long an most of the time get a res once the enemy is pushed. Doesn’t always work, but often enough it is to keep at it.

I destroy with my guardian.

You just need to know how to play.

I never use to roll with Judge’s Intervention but then I started using it… Honestly, guardians best friend.

Melee can work fine in WvW…I run a D/D Elementalist, which is basically melee and I do pretty well. My friend runs a Guardian, and I think both his weapons are melee and he does well too.

But I don’t really run with zergs, I find that dull. Instead, I try to fight what I perceive as the “real” war. While the stupid zerg is hitting a door with their fists and whining that WvW is boring and a zergfest because AoE from wall defenders makes a ram impossible, we are building a ballista on a ledge near the keep, decimating the wall defenders, and fighting the few enemy players who actually realize what is going on that try to kill the ballista.

The funniest thing is, that I bet our door zerg still has no clue why they actually won the siege lol.

Even in zerg vs zerg melee works.

Flanking, often zergs are focused only 1 way
Using pushing abilities (guardian wall of reflection/mesmer feedback etc. halfway to their zerg, their ranged kill themselves, go finish em off)
Not being a glass cannon, have abilities to heal/block/cleanse/mobility and a good balance of defensive stats
Not being a moron, running straight into the zerg and fighting them 1v20 while being focus fired and expecting to live without having to back off

Use culling to your advantage like other melee do. You can run into that zerg, unload, and then get out before they even notice you are there if done right. Hell, I do this even on my squishie ‘free kill’ ele.

As a Guardian, i feel like i kick kitten as melee. Full exotic retaliation spec.

The only thing we get screwed out of us our loot bags!!

Samhayn.2385:

The only thing we get screwed out of us our loot bags!!

LOL! True dat!

Wouldn’t it be nice if they just combined all four maps into one huge map? Yes? No?

Samhayn.2385:

The only thing we get screwed out of us our loot bags!!

That’s actually not true. What melee hits, it hits pretty hard and will tag. It’s the classes / playstyles that do big AoE condition/CC that have a hard time with the loot bags. Necro marks & wells, mesmer glamours, certain ele skills like heals or static field.

In general though, buy siege equipment. Most squishier classes actually have a really hard time manning this stuff as splash damage chunks through their HP.

If you’re running away from the zerg, you actually do a lot of PvE. Taking supply camps, killing flags or dolyaks, flipping NPC factions. My tanky guardian is much better at doing this than the ranged glass cannons.

I do feel the frustration though.

The biggest reason melee gets screwed out of loot bags is that they drop on the ground where you were a few seconds ago, so if you are constantly moving and dodging, you will never be where the loot bags are. And if you are standing still in the middle of the enemy zerg as a melee class, you are dead.

Vorpal.4683:

The biggest reason melee gets screwed out of loot bags is that they drop on the ground where you were a few seconds ago, so if you are constantly moving and dodging, you will never be where the loot bags are. And if you are standing still in the middle of the enemy zerg as a melee class, you are dead.

^This
I cannot tell you how many times I’ve missed out on loot because of this exact thing. Melee warrior here.

Missin loot bags is not melee exclusive. Have over 3.5k kills so far yet I have only 253 badges on my ele. Also, since I am geared/specced for support; I can’t even tag to well since my dmg is really low. I figure if I went glass cannon…I would have double the kills and badges by now.

For those of you saying melee gets screwed out of loot bags, I shall offer you the most useful tip of your life. Spam f. Always. Don’t stop. Spam that f. Eefin’ spam F you effs. Or rebind f to something else. Then spam that. Don’t stop spamming it. Ever. While you sleep. Spam it. While you eat. Spam it. While you make sweet, sweaty love. Spam it. While you’re spamming “it”. Spam it.

If your issue is that you’re unable to tag things before they die, then use ranged. Rifles are cool, so are bows. Guardian staves have a pretty good AOE from what I’ve seen. Their scepters are ranged as well and have pretty good offensive capabilities I believe. If you’re a thief then you shouldn’t complain. Just spam that f button and that heartseaker button.

I’m a ranger so I just warhorn and “LOOOOOL” around while tossing traps, I have it easy.

My thing with the loot bags isn’t even the loot, leave it in the bags make me spam f to get it what ever. That said, the badges are a currency and should not be something you need to loot like karma.

Samhayn, I agree with you on that. I wonder how many badges I have not received because I was killed right before I could loot or just didn’t see the bag and somehow missed it while excessively spamming f.

Somnolentjack.3460:

Samhayn, I agree with you on that. I wonder how many badges I have not received because I was killed right before I could loot or just didn’t see the bag and somehow missed it while excessively spamming f.

LOL so many times I’d be lying dead on the ground next to 2-3 bags of loot deep into the enemy zerg and my zerg is getting pushed back…. sad sad moments.

My guardian blows up players just fine, melee in general is an offensive class choice, if you are in some sort of controlled retreat guardians are a lot less useful, if you are advancing a line guardians and warriors are the class made for that.

Flank.

Don’t let them see you coming.

I play an Engineer with 1500 range grenades, and yet because I am most effective at laying down massive damage at close range (short travel time for nades), I spend considerable amount of time in melee range of the enemy zerg.

How to melee in zerg vs zerg and still survive to loot:

1. Flank enemy zergs.
2. Bring others with you.

Melee class is suprisingly work well. A warrior and a guardian can easily push into enemy line and down (if not kill) some glass canon build enemy easily. I have seen this countless of time (well they bad if fighting enemy up in the tower).

Spamming F 20 times a second for 5 hours in WvW is no solution at all and any game designers who think that is an acceptable situation need to wake up and pay attention.

Not too mention spamming F will very frequently cause you to start ill advised stomps on enemy players or have you start rezzing ranger pets.

And NONE of that changes the fact that even spamming F constantly, loot bags drop where you WERE and so if you are moving in a straight line, spamming F, you have to GO BACK and pick up all the bags afterwards.

Put the badges in my backpack the instant I earn them. There is no excuse, none, for me to have to run around collecting a currency like that. If you want to make me spam F like a fool to pick up my sharp spines and scraps of metal, fine.

I find that if you use your snares, and maybe use a utility for swiftness you’ll be fine with melee.

I would be fairly interested in the list of Melee weapon/classes that have snares/roots/pulls/stuns on their melee sets, isn’t it nearly all of them?

Somnolentjack.3460:

For those of you saying melee gets screwed out of loot bags, I shall offer you the most useful tip of your life. Spam f. Always. Don’t stop. Spam that f. Eefin’ spam F you effs. Or rebind f to something else. Then spam that. Don’t stop spamming it. Ever. While you sleep. Spam it. While you eat. Spam it. While you make sweet, sweaty love. Spam it. While you’re spamming “it”. Spam it.

If your issue is that you’re unable to tag things before they die, then use ranged. Rifles are cool, so are bows. Guardian staves have a pretty good AOE from what I’ve seen. Their scepters are ranged as well and have pretty good offensive capabilities I believe. If you’re a thief then you shouldn’t complain. Just spam that f button and that heartseaker button.

I’m a ranger so I just warhorn and “LOOOOOL” around while tossing traps, I have it easy.

lol…shouldn’t that be ’ffffLffffOffffOffffffOfffffffffOffffffffffffffLfff"?

Warrior, they can do it all better then the rest including ranged.

Ok maybe that a bit of exageration, the warriors I do see in WvWvW seem to do just fine with the exception of a select few but every class has those select few.

So that leaves Guardians, they also seem to do just fine from what I’ve seen.

I disagree with your topic.

I play a mostly Dagger+Dagger Necro, so melee is where I am most of the time. I really don’t see it being an issue though, I rarely have problems. When I die, it’s because I’m fighting multiple people.

Melee is great. Normally in an offensive situation, flanking and such as said before is the way to go. In defensive situations, they make up the forefront, get them to stand in front of siege pointed at choke hold, use Guardians for CC and then the warriors to screw up anyone who gets too close. They also make a good gate so it’s kinda like having a temporary repair if done right ;P

I play 0.15.30.20.5 Hammer/GS Guardian and I’ve never had more fun. I can do some pretty amazing things in WvW. The survivability coupled with decent damage output and control over 1-4 opponents at a time is awesome.

I think you need to find a profession you’re more suited to play with, but calling what a lot of us are doing successfully redundant is silly.

Is this thread really suggesting that Guardians are no use in WvW? Are you serious?

Guardians are game changers.

Hello all, Gladius Rex here from Jade Quarry’s Plague [SICK] guild.

My guild runs primarily small groups 5-8 people in tier 1. I am a melee warrior with a bit of a unique build that I will go into if you want, but lets just say I am not a glass cannon. Here are some pointers that I can put out there to help any melee who feels like they have a hands down.

- dont become overly specialized. especially in a small group setting. I run Greatsword/ Mace-Shield as my weapon sets. I also have in my bags at all times, a Rifle and a warhorn. Warhorn is obviously to help travel time, and the Rifle is for when I find myself on a keep wall and needing to shoot at people.

- Know your role. Guardians, you guys do some amazing healing. If you are a melee guardian and you dont feel important, try healing more and trying to kill less. Your group will love you more and your enemies will hate you less. We have a greatsword guardian in our small group and he does a fantastic job of giving us the extra push we need.

- warriors – dont forget that you do extra damage to objects. So destorying rams, ballistas, and arrow carts is easier for you. On top of that, dont overextend. This goes double for Greatsword users like myself, because its real easy with a 1200 range RUSH to suddenly be outside the range of all the good things your allies may be trying to do to help. If you really feel you lack punching power in combat, try Frenzy combined with Endure Pain. Two stances, one turns you into a blender of enemies but makes you take 50% more damage, the other, makes you take no damage. Together, you are a blender of enemies that takes no additional damage. Combine with something like For Great Justice, and you are a formidable foe.

- Having problem with the ranged guys? You can shoot back, which is ok, i prefer the rifle for this, but another cool trick is if you have 10 Def in your build, you can take the trait that reflects projectiles back. Use Mace/Shield and you have lots of blocking and whatever you block reflects back at them. Your rifle may hit hard, but odds are the ranger will hit harder so just use that against them.

- lastly, never forget that this game is pretty bad about showing full numbers of enemies on the screen. “Oh look its 4 guys” is rarely ever really 4 guys. This works for and against you. It works against you because you are going to hit a zerg now and then. it just happens. It works for you, because the enemy is no better at sizing up its foe than you are. So run in with your 8 men and watch them backpeddle because they think its a zerg. You may not survive the encounter, but if that zerg is already fighting another group or out in front of a tower/keep they want to sack, it can really screw them up.

thats the thing about zergs. its pack mentality. When a couple start backpeddling or retreating, the others will take que and do so before they even know why.

in the end, sometimes its now whether you succeed or fail, but what your contribution does for allies, allied zergs, and what your sacrifice can gain for your server.