Guild Wars 2

Essentially, if you have a finite number of class slots, then when you want to pull off a particular combo (portal bomb, shadow refuge, w/e) the more of that class you need to pull it off, the less of other classes you have. It’s too constricting. 5 is just too little to work with, especially if you want to pull off something complex with large groups. It limits your class options quite a bit, and makes group composition more cookie cutter. A creative game such as gw2 should push for the opposite… more options, less cookie cutter. I am certain they will add more elite and utility skills as useful on a wide scale in wvw as portal,time warp, shadow refuge, wall of reflection, etc etc (there’s a good bit more)

Its better if people are patient and wait for more depth, instead of complaining and destroying the depth already present, just because their class can’t do it, and “thats not fair.”

Just imo. Yeah, I play a mesmer. Would not complain if portal was on an elementalist instead. Still benefits me, just group with an elementalist. I dont complain about shadow refuge (an incredibly powerful skill that people dont seem to get)… I group with a thief.

I see tools, and I use them. Instead of complaining.

IMHO 5 man limit to amount of people using a mesmer portal, would even out against the 5 man limit of AOE’s and AOE heals.

other options:
1) portaling grants 5 stacks of confusion when used by anyone other than the mesmer.
2) or cd’s take a 5 second cooldown after porting.

loads of ways to alter gameplay via mechanics.

Ross Biddle.2367:

other options:
1) portaling grants 5 stacks of confusion when used by anyone other than the mesmer.
2) or cd’s take a 5 second cooldown after porting.

loads of ways to alter gameplay via mechanics.

The 2nd one wouldn’t stop a 50+ player portal.

Surbrus.6942:

Korgov.7645:

• Player appearing through a portal disables all friendly exit portals in the area for 1 second.

Still has the same issue, however then it just requires the exit portals to be spaced out. I sounds more annoying than anything else, no one wants to play a traffic jam simulator. And again, this would just require even more Mesmers to account for all the incorrectly placed portals.

Sounds like an extremely, over-elaborate way to address culling… and the culling issue wouldn’t even be solved, it would just require a group of experienced Mesmers to bypass for a culling inducing portal bomb.

In my opinion, this would be worse for the skill than simply adding 30 seconds to the cool down. Outside of sPvP the 90 second cool down did nothing but to make Portal more annoying to use, and made it pretty much worthless in some scenarios as the utility slot it occupies is worth more than the 90 second cool down portal (dungeons, bosses, etc).

Forcing people to go single file, outside of portal bombing, only makes the skill more and more annoying to use. If the objective is to make a skill so annoying to use, and not fun, then it should be deleted and simply replaced.

I am not joking around, I honestly believe that the portal skill should be deleted and abandoned rather than see some of these proposed changes. Even though I love the skill, and it used to have a permanent spot on my utility bar (before the 90 second cool down), the skill would be much better removed from the game than trying to make it more annoying to use. Too bad, because it used to be a really fun skill to use.

There would be no portal bombs if the exit portals were spaced out. Culling does not kick in if 20 players step through portal at same time, but evenly spaced all over the map.

Yes I kind of agree with you that the skill is probably better off deleted or disabled than tweaked to fit WvW context.

Come to think of it, a simple solution would be to limit the skill to be mesmer self only. Mesmers would retain the intended function of portals as escape mechanism. All the problems with portals in WvW context would be addressed.

Or another
3) Mesmer portal creator can go through portals at both ends, but other players can only go from the second portal opening back to the first. This way to “bomb” a mesmer would have to run FROM the enemy drop point back TO his allies in order to create the bombing effect. That’d introduce some limitations of effectiveness.

Portal bombing is not broke and does not need fixing. QQ more

It’s simple, remove the versatility of the portal and you will kill WvW.
Portal bombing is an essential part of strategy.. and it gives no advantage because everyone can find a mesmer and do it. If you complain because you’re losing, then that’s your commander’s foult buddy.
Portal should never be limited, and as an almost pure WvW guy who does not own a mesmer.. that’s my opinion.

Khovenost.7143:

It’s simple, remove the versatility of the portal and you will kill WvW.
Portal bombing is an essential part of strategy.. and it gives no advantage because everyone can find a mesmer and do it. If you complain because you’re losing, then that’s your commander’s foult buddy.
Portal should never be limited, and as an almost pure WvW guy who does not own a mesmer.. that’s my opinion.

Some relevant words from Sirlin.net

“It’s Too Good!”
Only in the most extreme, rare cases should something be banned because it is “too good.” This will be the most common type of ban requested by players, and almost all of their requests will be foolish. Banning a tactic simply because it is “the best” isn’t even warranted. That only reduces the game to all the “second best” tactics, which isn’t necessarily any better of a game than the original game. In fact, it’s often worse!

The only reasonable case to ban something because it is “too good” is when that tactic completely dominates the entire game, to the exclusion of other tactics. It is possible, though very rare, that removing an element of the game that is not only “the best” but also “ten times better than anything else in the game” results in a better game. I emphasize that is extremely rare. The most common case is that the player requesting the ban doesn’t fully grasp that the game is, in fact, not all about that one tactic. He should win several tournaments using mainly this tactic to prove his point. Another, far rarer possibility is that he’s right. The game really is shallow and centered on one thing (whether that one thing is a bug or by design is irrelevant). In that case, the best course of action is usually to abandon the game and play one of the hundreds of other readily available good games in the world.

Only in the ultra-rare case that the player is right and the game is worth saving and the game without the ultra-tactic is a ten times better game—only then is the notion even worth fighting for. And even in this case, it may take time for the game to mature enough for a great percentage of the best players and tournament organizers to realize that tactic should, indeed, be banned. Before an official ban takes place, there can also be something called “soft ban.” Let’s look at an example.

Right. And the game has not been out long enough for all these people on the forums to fully grasp the entirety of the game. Portal isn’t 10x better than everything else.

I just don’t understand all the fuss about portals. I play Tier 1 WvW. My two lvl 80s are a Guardian and an Elementalist. No Mesmer.

Portal “Bombing” is not any sort of “I win.” It’s one strategy among many. In fact, our sever tends to shout “Free bags inc!” when we see an enemy portal. Enemy portal bombs can work, but they just as frequently lead to an enemy zerg wipe, as our side locks down that portal and demolishes those pouring out of it with mass aoe, cc and condition dmg.

Portals are just one tactic of WvW that sometimes works and sometimes does not. I cannot figure out why there is so much crying about it. I can only assume that on lower Tiers people just don’t know how to play or something.

it’s also a lot of skill jealousy. One class has a skill unique amongst all other MMOs, and that’s just not fair.

Burl.9567:

Are you saying they don’t teleport through walls/gates? We saw a mesmer on three different occasions blink through a gate at bay. We have it frapsed, screenshoted and reported, but don’t act like we need to learn how to play the game because they exploited. We were able to reproduce it as well with full instructions sent to ANet. There are other exploitable walls and gates as well that mesmers can get into, but that doesn’t need to be addressed in this thread.

I was referring to people who have no idea what mesmers can and can’t and instead of looking up oponent skills rather craft their own theories.

If anyone is bypassing game mechanisms that’s quite a different thing and, of course, not a l2p issue.

But as with other things: Don’t nerf something because of bugs – fix the bugs then see if it still needs adjustment.

Korgov.7645:

• Require that portal end points have a walkable path between them. No more content skipping.

But then, please, also remove ALL skills from other classes that allow that, like, jumping with a warrior which makes the chandeliers in the jumping puzzle a breeze whereas a mesmer has to do it the hard way.

But this will sureley degrade into: I wanna keep all skills my class has … it’s just them mesmers that I don’t play that need to be nerfed …

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

If AoE attacks and damage can only hit 5 people it should mean that EVERYTHING can only hit a maximum of 5 people – including Portals, Stealth, boons and everything else

Because people in China eat rice we all should eat rice?

The reason for AoE effecting only 5 people (the exact number should be open to discussion, I think) is that no single ele or 100b warrior can kill a 30+ man team that is clustered up.

Your reasoning is faulty by comparing that to portals, beneficial shouts, etc.

The Three A’s of Portals:

Annoying: Having to sweep for mesmers every time you capture a keep/tower.

Awesome: Portalling a zerg with or without siege golems past a fortified wall and watching the defenders scatter.

Anguish: Having the above happen in a keep you’re defending.

I’ll probably just quit the game if Anet listens to tall these whiners. Nerf nerf nerf kills a game, while buff, create, rework makes the game last longer. It also removes all competitiveness and makes the game cookie cutter like someone else said.

HtFde.3856:

Korgov.7645:

• Require that portal end points have a walkable path between them. No more content skipping.

But then, please, also remove ALL skills from other classes that allow that, like, jumping with a warrior which makes the chandeliers in the jumping puzzle a breeze whereas a mesmer has to do it the hard way.

But this will sureley degrade into: I wanna keep all skills my class has … it’s just them mesmers that I don’t play that need to be nerfed …

I didn’t know warriors can also let entire team skip the jumping puzzles. What’s the skill you are talking about?

LegoTechnic.5910:

The Three A’s of Portals:

Annoying: Having to sweep for mesmers every time you capture a keep/tower.

Awesome: Portalling a zerg with or without siege golems past a fortified wall and watching the defenders scatter.

Anguish: Having the above happen in a keep you’re defending.

How is this awesome Mezmer managing to port past walls if you have already swept for him? either you didn’t sweep properly or you didn’t bother.I don’t know why people try to make it look like mesmer ports thru walls/doors and then gets the zerg in.There are very few places to hide and in lots of keeps nowhere at all to hide.Here’s an idea,next time anyone is about to lose a keep/tower try and hide see if you get found and survive until everyone has left.

Korgov.7645:

I didn’t know warriors can also let entire team skip the jumping puzzles. What’s the skill you are talking about?

You got it wrong – warriors are selfish creatures, they can only skip those parts themselves whereas the mesmer is a teamplayer who has to laboriously hop from chandelier to chandelier (and ledges) to get to the top to then selflessly create a portal for the people below.

That’s the one thing that annoys me to no end – people fail to see that the mesmer has to get there by himself and then – without any benefit to himself – offer a portal for those people below who will take it.

iorlas.6721:

How is this awesome Mezmer managing to port past walls if you have already swept for him? either you didn’t sweep properly or you didn’t bother.I don’t know why people try to make it look like mesmer ports thru walls/doors and then gets the zerg in.There are very few places to hide and in lots of keeps nowhere at all to hide.Here’s an idea,next time anyone is about to lose a keep/tower try and hide see if you get found and survive until everyone has left.

There are a few point where you can walk up textures or staff #2 through obstacles or blink through obstacles allowing you to end in a position where you can enter a keep. That is, however, abusing a bugge dmechanism and as such should be reported and the accounts banned for a bit.

I know one such location but I never use this bug to get me into that keep. Unfortunately GW 2 is a game where people of different kind come together and some of those use hacks, camp in jumping puzzles with siege equipment and exploit bugs any way they can …

mesmer portal can prevent cliping too, and i don’t think they need a nerf

HtFde.3856:

iorlas.6721:

How is this awesome Mezmer managing to port past walls if you have already swept for him? either you didn’t sweep properly or you didn’t bother.I don’t know why people try to make it look like mesmer ports thru walls/doors and then gets the zerg in.There are very few places to hide and in lots of keeps nowhere at all to hide.Here’s an idea,next time anyone is about to lose a keep/tower try and hide see if you get found and survive until everyone has left.

There are a few point where you can walk up textures or staff #2 through obstacles or blink through obstacles allowing you to end in a position where you can enter a keep. That is, however, abusing a bugge dmechanism and as such should be reported and the accounts banned for a bit.

I know one such location but I never use this bug to get me into that keep. Unfortunately GW 2 is a game where people of different kind come together and some of those use hacks, camp in jumping puzzles with siege equipment and exploit bugs any way they can …

using a bug has nothing to do with it really,i have seen thieves using a bug to get thru walls.Fix the bug not nerf or remove a skill.Mesmer can not port thru walls or doors,the portal is only as good as the mesmer using it.

I agree wholeheartedly – and I still suggest that ANet should fix a few issues:

(1) rendering problems
(2) known (i.e. reported) terrain glitches

Once those issues are addressed let’s take a good look at the portals again and see if additional fixes are needed or not – and hopefully revert that cooldown on the portal.

I agree entirely that this needs to be fixed- and a limit to 5 seems to be fair given all aoe skills have been nerfed to this amount too. Portals should also not be able to be placed within 10 yards of another one.
I’d also add that all stealths are stripped when using a portal and you are unable to stealth for 5 seconds after using a portal- instead of 50 stealthed peeps appearing all at once.
I’m not a great fan of something invisible being able to run into the middle of our lines and then 50 invisible people suddenly appearing as 30-40 of us hit the floor, having had no chance to even mash a button.
If people can co ordinate a pile of mesmers and portal bomb at 5 people a go with a 10 yard gap between portal placements then that will show a great deal of skill, instead of the current ‘portal a zerg’ mentality.
I think moving golems using portals is fine, as is using it for jump puzzles, but they need to fix the portal/jumping issues in keeps.

Victory.2879:

I agree entirely that this needs to be fixed- and a limit to 5 seems to be fair given all aoe skills have been nerfed to this amount too. Portals should also not be able to be placed within 10 yards of another one.
I’d also add that all stealths are stripped when using a portal and you are unable to stealth for 5 seconds after using a portal- instead of 50 stealthed peeps appearing all at once.
I’m not a great fan of something invisible being able to run into the middle of our lines and then 50 invisible people suddenly appearing as 30-40 of us hit the floor, having had no chance to even mash a button.
If people can co ordinate a pile of mesmers and portal bomb at 5 people a go with a 10 yard gap between portal placements then that will show a great deal of skill, instead of the current ‘portal a zerg’ mentality.
I think moving golems using portals is fine, as is using it for jump puzzles, but they need to fix the portal/jumping issues in keeps.

The big pink swirly thing that appears on the floor isn’t stealthed,takes a bit of skill for one dude to get into the middle of 30-40 of you,not one of you saw the big pink swirly thing or couldn’t kill 1 solo guy running thru your lines sounds more of a L2P issue to me.

iorlas.6721:

The big pink swirly thing that appears on the floor isn’t stealthed,takes a bit of skill for one dude to get into the middle of 30-40 of you,not one of you saw the big pink swirly thing or couldn’t kill 1 solo guy running thru your lines sounds more of a L2P issue to me.

Well … I usually use curtain followed by blink and portal is a fast cast spell. Fortunately it does not require the mesmer to still be alive once cast to be used ^^

But I guess culling issues help us when we use curtain in our suicide rushes so that we remain invisible for longer than we should.

But I also noticed this fixation on targets and the complete lack of placing scouts. And this lack should NOT be rewarded by nerfs – in any engagement you should have people scanning your flanks and if you actually have forward observers you might even see the enemies ball up in preparation (unless they ball inside of the keep, of course).

The main problem why this is not done seems to be “but then I don’t get points for the keep when it is taken” …

In my view I think it’s unfair how they have AOE caps, but don’t put a cap on amount of people through portals.

I mean you have 20-30 people, and the enemy does as well.
Enemy drops a portal and all ports to your team. Where your team is not all “turtled” the enemy will instantly be, therefore 80% of the time, all of the enemy aoe’s wont be as affected as your teams, due to the AOE cap. (Making the portalers win due to Arena Nets programming and cap limits more often then lose.)

Both sides would have same numbers, Both throwing AOE’s off, though due to AOE cap, and turtling, 1 side has an advantage.

Cap Portals to 5 people, just how AOE’s and Healing are capped, or remove both AOE and Healing caps.

Mikitten058:

In my view I think it’s unfair how they have AOE caps, but don’t put a cap on amount of people through portals. […] Cap Portals to 5 people, just how AOE’s and Healing are capped, or remove both AOE and Healing caps.

Comparing apples and lemons here. AoE is capped so that not a single ele can nuke 100+ people. Healing is capped so that 1 ele cannot keep 100+ people alive all by himself. A portal transports people from A to B, nothing more – it does not hurt people, it does not heal people it does not give buffs, it does not debuff enemies (unless you spend a LOT of points in glamour).

The rest of your statement is plain wrong. You only get wiped if you do not see the portal and keep bashing at doors until you’re wiped. If you see the portal you DO have numerous ways to react – same as you have against turtles. It appears to me, however, that you’re simply clueless on how to counter and therefore cry for a nerf.

Enemies from a portal suffer from culling issues as much as those the portal is directed against and you’re cute in claiming that it’s easier for enemies to dispose of widely spread targets than of closer spaced ones.

Edit: So the enemy comes at you in a turtle without a portal – how does that change your situation – you’ll still wipe if you can’t handle them – the method of transportation is meaningless.

HtFde.3856:

Mikitten058:

In my view I think it’s unfair how they have AOE caps, but don’t put a cap on amount of people through portals. […] Cap Portals to 5 people, just how AOE’s and Healing are capped, or remove both AOE and Healing caps.

Comparing apples and lemons here. AoE is capped so that not a single ele can nuke 100+ people. Healing is capped so that 1 ele cannot keep 100+ people alive all by himself. A portal transports people from A to B, nothing more – it does not hurt people, it does not heal people it does not give buffs, it does not debuff enemies (unless you spend a LOT of points in glamour).

The rest of your statement is plain wrong. You only get wiped if you do not see the portal and keep bashing at doors until you’re wiped. If you see the portal you DO have numerous ways to react – same as you have against turtles. It appears to me, however, that you’re simply clueless on how to counter and therefore cry for a nerf.

Enemies from a portal suffer from culling issues as much as those the portal is directed against and you’re cute in claiming that it’s easier for enemies to dispose of widely spread targets than of closer spaced ones.

Edit: So the enemy comes at you in a turtle without a portal – how does that change your situation – you’ll still wipe if you can’t handle them – the method of transportation is meaningless.

Even if you lay AOE’s on the portal, your aoe will only hit 5 targets at the same time. If there are 30 in the small group and they do not move then your AOE hits 5/30. It is not guarentee’d to even hit the same person the next time.
Also, it leaves it to where those in the turtle group can out heal the damage.

It’s like a lottery pick 5 of 30 you might hit. If they are also spamming rezz, then that downed player will be up in a second.

Now multiple it by those 30 hitting all their aoe’s on a guaranteed person in 1 direction but imagine people spamming aoe’s on a group to the north, east, south, west sides.

Each non portaled player would have a .2% chance to hit someone more then once, while the ones in a portal would have a 1.5% chance to hit the same player more then once. (Provided there are 30 on each side, and the people who take the portal stand still, while the other side is spread out.)
(So the non portaled group in total has a 6% chance to hit the portaled group twice in a row, where the portal group has a 45% chance total to hit the non portal group.)

.2% is from:
30 people, divided by 30= 1 for 1 spot. Then divide that by limit to AOE’s (aka 5 limit)

1.5% is from:
30 people, divided by 4 directions into a number of 7.5 then divided by 5 players 1 aoe can hit.

So no, it’s not apples to oranges. It was my opinion, and I am entitled to such. (Then again I’m hoping I did the math right, I suck at math, and being sleepy really doesn’t help at all.)

If portals were limited to 5 players each through them, then the chances would be equal on both sides. I am not just “crying for nerf” though I am crying for “balance”.
Limit players which can use 1 portal just as everything else has been limited or remove the other limits, or turtling system in general. Althoguh I do think if the limit a portal to work for 5 players, I do think cool down should be put back to the original.

Plus for PvE and sPvP you dont need to portal 30+ people. Most the time mesmers portal themselves. Also I have a mesmer I play, so no, it’s also not because I don’t play the class.

Mikitten058:

So no, it’s not apples to oranges. It was my opinion, and I am entitled to such. (Then again I’m hoping I did the math right, I suck at math, and being sleepy really doesn’t help at all.)

If portals were limited to 5 players each through them, then the chances would be equal on both sides. I am not just “crying for nerf” though I am crying for “balance”.
Limit players which can use 1 portal just as everything else has been limited or remove the other limits, or turtling system in general. Althoguh I do think if the limit a portal to work for 5 players, I do think cool down should be put back to the original.

Plus for PvE and sPvP you dont need to portal 30+ people. Most the time mesmers portal themselves. Also I have a mesmer I play, so no, it’s also not because I don’t play the class.

You still fail to see your true problem – it is not the portal but the turtle. If those players would walk up on you you’d still lose – when you shouldn’t if you knew how to break a turtle.

HtFde.3856:

Mikitten058:

So no, it’s not apples to oranges. It was my opinion, and I am entitled to such. (Then again I’m hoping I did the math right, I suck at math, and being sleepy really doesn’t help at all.)

If portals were limited to 5 players each through them, then the chances would be equal on both sides. I am not just “crying for nerf” though I am crying for “balance”.
Limit players which can use 1 portal just as everything else has been limited or remove the other limits, or turtling system in general. Althoguh I do think if the limit a portal to work for 5 players, I do think cool down should be put back to the original.

Plus for PvE and sPvP you dont need to portal 30+ people. Most the time mesmers portal themselves. Also I have a mesmer I play, so no, it’s also not because I don’t play the class.

You still fail to see your true problem – it is not the portal but the turtle. If those players would walk up on you you’d still lose – when you shouldn’t if you knew how to break a turtle.

The thing is it’s a mechanical issue in Gw2 and Anet needs to fix one of the issues regarding it. Sorry but not everyone has skills to instantly pull people/knock them out of stacking on one another on an instant notice.

So because I don’t agree that “it’s fine” I apparently do not see the truth? Or I am crying “nerf” are players no longer to have their own view without being talked down to as if they have no clue what they are speaking about? It’s not just 1 thing which is making it “broken” so to speak, but multiple things. Though Anet is more likely to fix 1 issue then 3-4. Sorry but it’s true. (Guess I’ll hold future statements with my opinion since apparently I am wrong for not agreeing with others.)

Kirrund.2654:

Right. And the game has not been out long enough for all these people on the forums to fully grasp the entirety of the game. Portal isn’t 10x better than everything else.

Lets put it into a bit of perspective shall we.

There have been many, many posts from people, complaining about a Thief being able to stealth into a group of people, kill one, or even some, of them, then the Thief can stealth out to safety.

Many people have posted here, in this forum, crying about it, wanting it to be nerfed, claiming it is OP, shouldnt be allowed, etc etc.

Now, here we have a Mesmer, who can also stealth into a group of people, but the Mesmer can drop a portal, and allow an infinite number of people to follow them, and kill a lot more than just one, or some, of the group of people, then the Mesmer can portal back out to safety.

Now, you may be right, the Mesmer portal bomb may not be ten times better than everything else, but it is infinitely better than the most complained about class/mechanic on the forums, and the game has certainly been out long enough for people to see that.

By the logic of some people in this thread anything that amplifies the culling issue should be nerfed. So it only stands to reason that at most 5 people in any given area should be able to have the swiftness buff because when 50+ enemy players come running at me with swiftness on I don’t see them until after I’m dead. Sound fair?

Sixpax.8360:

By the logic of some people in this thread anything that amplifies the culling issue should be nerfed. So it only stands to reason that at most 5 people in any given area should be able to have the swiftness buff because when 50+ enemy players come running at me with swiftness on I don’t see them until after I’m dead. Sound fair?

Rather than doing that, we should make this a turn based game where everyone gets a turn to move up one tile/attack/run every 2 minutes. This would allow the engine ample time to load everything around you.

+
We should also delete all classes but one and give it one skill only – that sounds fair and balanced to me but I am sure we will still get “this needs to be changed because I lose” threads even then ^^

Korgov.7645:

The problem is this: I have never done the jumping puzzle except with friendly mesmer providing me a portal. I would assume same is true for many others, too. ANet might as well remove the jumping puzzles and put the treasure chests next to our waypoint.

I have no complaints about 1v1. Mesmers are probably the most fun and exiting to fight against.

You can still portal people up the jumping puzzle even if portal required line of sight.

Just as an FYI. Of course this would require people to be careful and not fall off the edge once they are up there.

I see no one has a response to my post.

No one can seem to explain what the actual big deal is about portals that does not boil down to them or their server being terrible.

Portal Bombing? My server says: bring it on! Usually its free bags for us.

I think a number of people are missing a key point: All teams have access to mesmers if they so choose. If an opposing server ensures they have a mesmer who knows how to do a portal bomb and can coordinate a stack to pull it off, your server can do the same.

This is not some class vs class issue where one can seriously destroy the other and the weaker class has no recourse. This is server vs server and both servers have access to the same strategies; whether or not those servers take the time to perfect those strategies is up to them.

Portal bombs difficult to defend against? Then use them as an offensive strategy against your enemy. If the enemy has guns and you have sticks do you ban guns and force everyone to have sticks? No, you go get yourself some guns.

If it works offensively for them, it will work offensively for you and if you’re stuck in a position where you’re always in defensive mode then sorry but it’s a simple L2P, move to another BL and get on the offensive.

Something is only an advantage that needs to be nerfed if the advantage cannot be leveraged by everyone.

They should probably either limit the number of players it can effect just like every other offensive/defensive/utility skill in the game or they should remove the limit on other skills.

I don’t really care which (though I would lean towards just removing the limit on all skills) but it should be consistent. There’s no reason this one skill should be able to effect infinite people when an AoE attack spell can’t.

Judas.5432:

They should probably either limit the number of players it can effect just like every other offensive/defensive/utility skill in the game or they should remove the limit on other skills.

Not all skills have a player cap. Look at the skills that give people swiftness, for example. One person can supply swiftness to an infinite number of players.

It’s an effective tactic that can be countered by plopping a hostile sanctuary dome (guardian) down over one side of the portal. The people who try to run in get blasted back, and the people that get through are flattened and are unable to get up (like when you overdo it on the guild ale keg).

There are probably better counters but I think that Mesmer portals and portal bombing are legitimate tactics that require brains, not brawn, to overcome.

Excession.2198:

Kirrund.2654:

Right. And the game has not been out long enough for all these people on the forums to fully grasp the entirety of the game. Portal isn’t 10x better than everything else.

Lets put it into a bit of perspective shall we.

There have been many, many posts from people, complaining about a Thief being able to stealth into a group of people, kill one, or even some, of them, then the Thief can stealth out to safety.

Many people have posted here, in this forum, crying about it, wanting it to be nerfed, claiming it is OP, shouldnt be allowed, etc etc.

Now, here we have a Mesmer, who can also stealth into a group of people, but the Mesmer can drop a portal, and allow an infinite number of people to follow them, and kill a lot more than just one, or some, of the group of people, then the Mesmer can portal back out to safety.

Now, you may be right, the Mesmer portal bomb may not be ten times better than everything else, but it is infinitely better than the most complained about class/mechanic on the forums, and the game has certainly been out long enough for people to see that.

No it isn’t.

Just because people complained about thieves, and thieves getting a damage nerf, does not make them justified. The people who complain about stealth are either complaining about culling issues, or need to accept the fact that they aren’t god’s gift to pvp, and never will be as such.

The game actually hasn’t been out long enough for everyone to figure out the most optimal tricks. Nobody has mastered this game yet. To state otherwise is ludicrous. Just because a bunch of people whine on the forums about everything en masse ( a small vocal amount that even post on the forums) doesn’t make them right. Usually, the majority is wrong because the majority are mediocre and don’t understand high concepts of play.

You’re trying to say that most people actually know what they’re talking about, which is foolish in anything that takes skill. They just haven’t figured it out yet.

Excession.2198:

Now, here we have a Mesmer, who can also stealth into a group of people, but the Mesmer can drop a portal, and allow an infinite number of people to follow them, and kill a lot more than just one, or some, of the group of people, then the Mesmer can portal back out to safety.

Completely different from the Thief. Your thief example is one single person killing multiple people. The Thief player requires much less skill to pull this off than the group of people hunting the Thief.

Your Mesmer example is simply saying that an infinite number of people can defeat more than one player. Even if there was no five target cap on AoE, I am pretty sure that an infinite number of players will defeat more than two players every single time.

What’s next? Make it so that you cannot communicate to teammates if you are a certain distance away, because a single scout can report your server’s positions and allow for their army to out maneuver yours?

Now that I think of it, we don’t really have a clear reason here that would suggest portal needs to be changed at all. There is so much talking about nerfs, that the reasoning for the entire discussion for nerfs has seemed to be forgotten.

IMO the only issue is culling. Therefore the best course of action would be to simply fix culling (even if it is just loading in extremely low res models until the proper models have been rendered).

Mikitten058:

HtFde.3856:

Mikitten058:

In my view I think it’s unfair how they have AOE caps, but don’t put a cap on amount of people through portals. […] Cap Portals to 5 people, just how AOE’s and Healing are capped, or remove both AOE and Healing caps.

Comparing apples and lemons here. AoE is capped so that not a single ele can nuke 100+ people. Healing is capped so that 1 ele cannot keep 100+ people alive all by himself. A portal transports people from A to B, nothing more – it does not hurt people, it does not heal people it does not give buffs, it does not debuff enemies (unless you spend a LOT of points in glamour).

The rest of your statement is plain wrong. You only get wiped if you do not see the portal and keep bashing at doors until you’re wiped. If you see the portal you DO have numerous ways to react – same as you have against turtles. It appears to me, however, that you’re simply clueless on how to counter and therefore cry for a nerf.

Enemies from a portal suffer from culling issues as much as those the portal is directed against and you’re cute in claiming that it’s easier for enemies to dispose of widely spread targets than of closer spaced ones.

Edit: So the enemy comes at you in a turtle without a portal – how does that change your situation – you’ll still wipe if you can’t handle them – the method of transportation is meaningless.

Even if you lay AOE’s on the portal, your aoe will only hit 5 targets at the same time. If there are 30 in the small group and they do not move then your AOE hits 5/30. It is not guarentee’d to even hit the same person the next time.
Also, it leaves it to where those in the turtle group can out heal the damage.

It’s like a lottery pick 5 of 30 you might hit. If they are also spamming rezz, then that downed player will be up in a second.

Now multiple it by those 30 hitting all their aoe’s on a guaranteed person in 1 direction but imagine people spamming aoe’s on a group to the north, east, south, west sides.

Each non portaled player would have a .2% chance to hit someone more then once, while the ones in a portal would have a 1.5% chance to hit the same player more then once. (Provided there are 30 on each side, and the people who take the portal stand still, while the other side is spread out.)
(So the non portaled group in total has a 6% chance to hit the portaled group twice in a row, where the portal group has a 45% chance total to hit the non portal group.)

.2% is from:
30 people, divided by 30= 1 for 1 spot. Then divide that by limit to AOE’s (aka 5 limit)

1.5% is from:
30 people, divided by 4 directions into a number of 7.5 then divided by 5 players 1 aoe can hit.

So no, it’s not apples to oranges. It was my opinion, and I am entitled to such. (Then again I’m hoping I did the math right, I suck at math, and being sleepy really doesn’t help at all.)

If portals were limited to 5 players each through them, then the chances would be equal on both sides. I am not just “crying for nerf” though I am crying for “balance”.
Limit players which can use 1 portal just as everything else has been limited or remove the other limits, or turtling system in general. Althoguh I do think if the limit a portal to work for 5 players, I do think cool down should be put back to the original.

Plus for PvE and sPvP you dont need to portal 30+ people. Most the time mesmers portal themselves. Also I have a mesmer I play, so no, it’s also not because I don’t play the class.

No.

If your players are paying attention and all land their aoes on the stacked portal bombers,they should win.

If it was not so, they our team of 7 aoes would not wipe out zergs of stacked 30+ repeatedly.

You have an advantage over them portal bombing. Both teams are affected by culling, but you know where they are because you see the portal.

The problem that nobody wants to admit is that it takes coordination to portal bomb, and it takes coordination to aoe a portal bomb, but one of these things isn’t happening… aka, a coordinated force is beating an uncoordinated force. But nobody likes to take fault. It obviously had to be another reason than their own mistake.

Selwynn.2758:

I see no one has a response to my post.

No one can seem to explain what the actual big deal is about portals that does not boil down to them or their server being terrible.

Portal Bombing? My server says: bring it on! Usually its free bags for us.

The issue isn’t necessarily portal bombing alone. Portal bombing, while effective requires your server to break into your opponent’s castle/keep or tower and then continue the siege with a hidden Mesmer. That’s a really good mechanic.

The major issue with portal bombing comes from 2 separate issues.

1) glitching terrain to bypass defenses you never bypassed initially.
2) the limit on AoE targets which makes "turtling"+"portal bombing" unreasonably strong.

Now there’s a few solutions. The easy fix is only 5 people can use a portal+fixing terrain glitching.

The harder way would be give every character in the game a collision size so turtling becomes less effective (not totally ineffective…just less effective) and fix culling/glitch terrain.

The problem of portal bombing isn’t a single problem its the abuse of a very, very bad glitch, culling and turtling which when combined and properly coordinated is like shooting a ICBM at a bunch of spear throwing villagers.

BabelFish.7234:

It’s so simple! Make Mesmer portals only able to teleport X amount of players (5 to me seems reasonable this way if someone still wants to Mesmer bomb they can coordinate for a highly tactical strike of mesmers to multi-portal bomb).

In combination with fixing the climbable terrain in WvW I believe this will balance out one of WvW’s defining balance issues.

Boo!

BabelFish.7234:

The major issue with portal bombing comes from 2 separate issues.

1) glitching terrain to bypass defenses you never bypassed initially.
2) the limit on AoE targets which makes "turtling"+"portal bombing" unreasonably strong.

Now there’s a few solutions. The easy fix is only 5 people can use a portal+fixing terrain glitching.

It has already been discussed ITT how arbitrarily limiting the portal to five players will do nothing but increase the demand for Mesmers. The exact same issues will be happening, only the side pulling off the portal bomb will need additional Mesmers in their group’s composition.

Also, fix the exploits, don’t nerf abilities simply because there are unrelated exploits.

As for turtling, remove or increase the AoE cap. The idea that turtling like this in GW2 is a viable strategy pretty much defies all common sense (or at least common sense of gamers). Removing the viability of turtling will do much more to make the game more interesting than simply nerfing a scapegoat class into oblivion.

Surbrus.6942:

BabelFish.7234:

The major issue with portal bombing comes from 2 separate issues.

1) glitching terrain to bypass defenses you never bypassed initially.
2) the limit on AoE targets which makes "turtling"+"portal bombing" unreasonably strong.

Now there’s a few solutions. The easy fix is only 5 people can use a portal+fixing terrain glitching.

It has already been discussed ITT how arbitrarily limiting the portal to five players will do nothing but increase the demand for Mesmers. The exact same issues will be happening, only the side pulling off the portal bomb will need additional Mesmers in their group’s composition.

Which in turn makes the portal bomb a highly organized, tactical event. I don’t see the problem with requiring 10 Mesmers to portal bomb with 50 players.

Also, fix the exploits, don’t nerf abilities simply because there are unrelated exploits.

With how long Anet takes to fix these problems we still need this addressed sooner then later. Once they fix the major issues THEN we can look at removing the Band-Aid (which includes that stupid 30 second nerf to the portal).

As for turtling, remove or increase the AoE cap.

This isn’t even a good suggestion…the reason why is because with the removal of a AoE cap Elementalists and other AoE heavy classes/builds will give the defender such a massive advantage it’ll ruin WvWvW in its current state. With AoE caps removed WvWvW will turn into a “who has the most catapults first wins” and we will see a massive reduction in action (just like in real life back when castles and siege weapons were state -of-the -art and it took months to siege a castle and even then you often won through attrition).

The idea that turtling like this in GW2 is a viable strategy pretty much defies all common sense (or at least common sense of gamers). Removing the viability of turtling will do much more to make the game more interesting than simply nerfing a scapegoat class into oblivion.

Please, stop with the hyperboles. Almost no one in this thread is suggesting extremes like “remove portal” and most of the points against the portal are intertwined with game-breaking glitches as I keep pointing out (and thusly having it ignored by people like you).

I don’t mind debating this but it’s pretty hard to when you can’t see the forest for the trees, please…take a step back…stop with the hyperboles and look at this objectively without ignoring key components of comments made.

BabelFish.7234:

Which in turn makes the portal bomb a highly organized, tactical event. I don’t see the problem with requiring 10 Mesmers to portal bomb with 50 players.

I take it you also wouldn’t have a problem with putting a 5 person cap on swiftness buff skills as well?