Guild Wars 2

I thought a mesmer’s mechanic was clones/illusions, not stealth. Can anyone from ANET please explain why they have so much access to stealth now. It’s not as if it wasn’t annoying enough fighting one prior to the most recent patch, but now, I have literally no chance keeping one targeted because of the terrible targeting system + stealth.

Does anyone have any tips to fighting one of these clone + stealth machines? – Seems a bit much they get their own mechanic plus a thief’s.

You fight them in exactly the same way you fight a perma-stealth thief.

Mesmer access to stealth is the same now as it was at release. Although I think Veil was reduced to 2 seconds from 4 at some point so it’s probably less than release.

If stealth was meant to be an exclusive Thief mechanic then Anet probably wouldn’t have given it to Engineers and Rangers too. Engineer’s can even combo stealth too just like a Thief.

There’s plenty of threads in the Mesmer forum where people give tips on how to fight PU Mesmers.

Dawdler.8521:

You fight them in exactly the same way you fight a perma-stealth thief.

Except mesmers can deal tons of damage while hiding in stealth. Thieves have to reveal themselves, but a mesmer can have the clones up dealing damage the whole time they are hiding.

Frigid.6027:

Dawdler.8521:

You fight them in exactly the same way you fight a perma-stealth thief.

Except mesmers can deal tons of damage while hiding in stealth. Thieves have to reveal themselves, but a mesmer can have the clones up dealing damage the whole time they are hiding.

Right… Clones with massive damage.

http://replygif.net/980

Dawdler.8521:

You fight them in exactly the same way you fight a perma-stealth thief.

except thief can’t kill you while being stealth, he leaves stealth upon attack…mesmer clones on other hand keep attacking you while mesmer can keep stealth

Frigid.6027:

Dawdler.8521:

You fight them in exactly the same way you fight a perma-stealth thief.

Except mesmers can deal tons of damage while hiding in stealth. Thieves have to reveal themselves, but a mesmer can have the clones up dealing damage the whole time they are hiding.

Not quite right. The clones don’t do much damage, but my phantasms can. Yes I can launch those while stealth. They can be blocked, interrupted, knocked back and even killed, but running away is a better idea.

Mesmers have no mobility. If you don’t like the fight? Leave.

Cynz.9437:

Dawdler.8521:

You fight them in exactly the same way you fight a perma-stealth thief.

except thief can’t kill you while being stealth, he leaves stealth upon attack…mesmer clones on other hand keep attacking you while mesmer can keep stealth

That’s fair because it’s not like the clones will spike 1/4 to 1/2 of your HP pool in 1 hit.

Herr der Friedhoefe.2490:

Frigid.6027:

Dawdler.8521:

You fight them in exactly the same way you fight a perma-stealth thief.

Except mesmers can deal tons of damage while hiding in stealth. Thieves have to reveal themselves, but a mesmer can have the clones up dealing damage the whole time they are hiding.

*Mesmers have no mobility. If you don’t like the fight? Leave. *

Until traveler runes were release, now it’s a blink away to reset, maybe a staff 2 on a mob behind you for the extra blink if needed.

Or if chasing then blink, staff 2 on mob behind you then switch to sword 3 and immobolize

Eloquence.5207:

Cynz.9437:

Dawdler.8521:

You fight them in exactly the same way you fight a perma-stealth thief.

except thief can’t kill you while being stealth, he leaves stealth upon attack…mesmer clones on other hand keep attacking you while mesmer can keep stealth

That’s fair because it’s not like the clones will spike 1/4 to 1/2 of your HP pool in 1 hit.

berserker + duelist + couple of clones can do it quite fast actually and in some cases way faster than thief

i have seens mesmers that can blow someone way faster than thief in one combo

Frigid.6027:

Dawdler.8521:

You fight them in exactly the same way you fight a perma-stealth thief.

Except mesmers can deal tons of damage while hiding in stealth. Thieves have to reveal themselves, but a mesmer can have the clones up dealing damage the whole time they are hiding.

Clones hardly deal any damage and Phantasms can be killed easily. A thief on the other hand has a ridiculously powerful alpha-strike every time with its stealth attacks. Besides, a mesmer does not ‘hide’; they use the precious few seconds of stealth to reposition themselves.

Also, mesmers have to slot utility skills for stealth, so they are limited as to how often they can stealth (all on pretty long cooldowns). Thieves can just pop in and out of stealth without a care in the world; even when all their utilities are on cooldowns because of their almost unlimited access to smokefields and finishers.

Mesmer has limited stealth compared to thief perma stealth, they also do not have as much over the top burst damage like a thief either. Like the person above me said it takes up slots for stealth plus long cooldowns for them.

I guess the real problem is the targeting system then, it’s an excercise in frustration fighting a class that can stealth.

The player stealthing should also lose target in my opinion, seems fair.

Not to mention the fact that most stealthing mesmers will use PU, so protection, regeneration, and a block are pretty common and not the easiest thing to fight down. Coupled that with a free stun break on staff 2, you have one tanky, bursty, and annoying POS.

The easiest way to beat these builds though, is running away. Simple, but people hate it. There are so many threads about mobility and peoples ability to disengage at will. So fight a PU mesmer, or split and cause more rage :P

Double edged swords are pretty common in this game it seems.

From my experience Mesmer stealth is not that much, but it is strong when combined with PU. You don’t need to spam stealth to be annyoing. Just popping it the right time and you live for the next stealth.

And if you run a condition build with mesmer, than your illusions do actually deal a nice ammount of dmg, that shold not be udnerestimated. With the right condition duraiton bonuses 3 mesmer clones can almost contiuesly maintain burning and in addition a nice stack of bleedings, while he/she can summon a duelsit during stealth for more bleed stacks and some direct dmg.

Even a ZerkerMesmer, with duelist and Bersker, can cause a great deal of dmg, while in stealth. I once killed a guy with my Mesmer while I was in long stealth from a friendly thieve’s shadow refuge, that I prolonged a bit with MI and decoy. The dude didn’t know what was happening. Of course that fight went unusually lucky for me. I only managed to do that once^^

But over all my experience was that many ppl learned how to deal with Mesmer illusions and stealth. And I can confirm, how raging it can be to a mesmer, when your foe just simply runs away. Many players didn’t even fight me any more, when I still was playing, and I had allways a hard time chasing them, especially on my condition build^^

someone talking about perma-stealth mesmer ? what sorcery is this ? teach me.. teach me how to be a perma-stealth mesmer….

Jackums.3496:

Simonoly.4352:

Mesmer access to stealth is the same now as it was at release.

false
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Prismatic_Understanding

Dawdler.8521:

You fight them in exactly the same way you fight a perma-stealth thief.

iow you don’t.

When Mesmer uses stealth all illusions should also stealth and stop attacking. Every damage done from stealth (either mesmer or illusions) should trigger revealed.

Same changes should apply to Thief + Thiefs Guild and Engineers + Turrets.

LordByron.8369:

Jackums.3496:

Simonoly.4352:

Mesmer access to stealth is the same now as it was at release.

false
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Prismatic_Understanding

Prismatic Understanding has existed since release. The only thing Anet did was add boons.

My point still stands.

Frigid.6027:

Except mesmers can deal tons of damage while hiding in stealth.

Yes. Your point?

A Thief can deal more damage in 1s coming out of stealth.

Look, its real easy: PU Mesmers and perma-stealth Theives are arguably the most annoying and stupidly OP roaming builds there is on two of the strongest pvp classes the game have. They can both engage and run away pretty much at will. Sure a Warrior can fly away like his bloody kitten is on fire when comboing certain weapons, but against a decent Mesmer or Thief that’s pretty much all they got.

You dont fight them.

You join them.

Same access to stealth as before, but stealth spamming wasn’t viable until Prismatic Understanding was buffed. Unless if you are a p/d thief or some other specific spec that can fight PU, it is often best to just move away. Fortunately this type mesmers can’t chase very well.

1. Phantasms do a kitten ton of damage.
2. Phantasms have more health than clones so they are harder to kill
3. With 3 phantasms up and being in stealth that is massive damage
4. Killing them put conditions on yourself if traited
5. All mesmers stealth abilities are not on long cool downs
6. With mesmers in stealth with multipe phantasms up they can do more damage than thieves without being revealed.
7. I have more hours on my mesmer than any other class so don’t tell me I don’t play mesmer and that’s why I’m hating on it.
8. I’m not hating on mesmers but just putting down invalid arguments from the mesmers in this forum and i just hate when people defend their class with false info
8. The targetting system is fine. That’s the main point of stealth and clones, to trick you into targetting the clone instead of the player not knowing which is which.
9. I feel that that should be the only reason to be able to use stealth, as a defensive mechanic to make someone think that a clone is the player and not to hide in stealth while having only phantasms up noobing the enemy.

Thanks!

I think the problem comes down to all the power grind with ascended armor and the ability to spec on insane amounts of dmg (no matter if condition or direct dmg). With this, a mesmer, same as thieves, doesn’t need defensive stats, because with good access to stealth for thieves and mesmers and clones of any kind for mesmers, they have already a very good defensive mechanic and can focus on the offensive. That doesn’t help much in Zerg fights, but is the stronger, the less players are involved showing it’s maximum usefullness in 1v1 fights.

It is partly a l2p issue, but not entirely. A mesmer that knows it’s profession very well can allways outmanouver an opponent, that want’s to fight and does not have that ammount of stealth.

But let’s look at other professions. I have seen Zerker warriors striking just a few hits with insane ammount of dmg, leaping far away and bloking until those skills are out of cooldown and try again. The only difference here is, that this behaviour is not only predictable but it is visually forseeable.

What I want to say is, that many professions have some kind of annoying and supposedly unbalanced mechanics. But you also have to see, that WvW is not build arround the roamer and the smal scale fights. Anet won’t focus on complaints from roamers, nor will they focus on smale scale fight ballance in WvW, when WvW is about the big fights, the Zerks and the blobs, the epic experience of huge battle (not delivering from my point of view in that area either, but that is another topic).

Cush.4063:

1. Phantasms do a kitten ton of damage.
2. Phantasms have more health than clones so they are harder to kill
3. With 3 phantasms up and being in stealth that is massive damage
4. Killing them put conditions on yourself if traited
5. All mesmers stealth abilities are not on long cool downs
6. With mesmers in stealth with multipe phantasms up they can do more damage than thieves without being revealed.
7. I have more hours on my mesmer than any other class so don’t tell me I don’t play mesmer and that’s why I’m hating on it.
8. I’m not hating on mesmers but just putting down invalid arguments from the mesmers in this forum and i just hate when people defend their class with false info
8. The targetting system is fine. That’s the main point of stealth and clones, to trick you into targetting the clone instead of the player not knowing which is which.
9. I feel that that should be the only reason to be able to use stealth, as a defensive mechanic to make someone think that a clone is the player and not to hide in stealth while having only phantasms up noobing the enemy.

Thanks!

4. Clone death traits do not affect phantasms. They will only have retaliation for 5 seconds if a phantasm build.

6. Thieves can do the same thing with Thieves guild and spike you for scary damage with backstab. Phantasms have attack cooldowns and won’t constantly attack when the Mesmer is in stealth. Swings and roundabouts when comparing Thief and Mesmer stealth.

8. You’ve also provided false information.

TyPin.9860:

But let’s look at other professions. I have seen Zerker warriors striking just a few hits with insane ammount of dmg, leaping far away and bloking until those skills are out of cooldown and try again. The only difference here is, that this behaviour is not only predictable but it is visually forseeable.

Yes. That’s known as fun counter-play between brawlers. They hit, you dodge/block, you hit, they dodge/block, etc and so on. Stealth completely bypass this. There is no real counter-play to stealth. Yeah, so you can pop stun breaks after they hit you but that’s countering something after the fact it occured (such as Theives taking 6K HP off 3K armor targets in a second). If this is all that happen during a fight… its not counter-play. Its damage control until you die. Because your opponent is invisible.

And just as a sidenote, yes I do play a PU Mesmer.

Told you its better to join ’em.

Snorcha.7586:

I guess the real problem is the targeting system then, it’s an excercise in frustration fighting a class that can stealth.

The player stealthing should also lose target in my opinion, seems fair.

That’s an interesting concept, losing target while in stealth. As someone who’s played both thief and mesmer up to level 100 in wvw (yeah i know not a ton, leave me alone) mesmers stealth is no where near the thieves’ stealth. Played a PU build and i much prefer my custom dps build (which only uses decory to reposition and mass invis to escape) over the PU. If the player runs you are literally just standing there flickin pebbles at their back as they skip across the horizon.

For absolute troll capability, try sending 10 PU mesmers against a hammer train. The results are absolutly hilarious. The hammer train can literally spend 30 minutes trying to kill you, and inbetween all of your stealths and clone spam, not be able to down a single one of you. Meanwhile you can slowly attrition down their backline until they are forced to retreat.

In this thread, mesmers and thieves argue over which one is the most ridiculous.

Cynz.9437:

Dawdler.8521:

You fight them in exactly the same way you fight a perma-stealth thief.

except thief can’t kill you while being stealth, he leaves stealth upon attack…mesmer clones on other hand keep attacking you while mesmer can keep stealth

yeah and that massive dmg that comes from clones 32, 32 ,32 ,45, 20.0.0.0. yeah thats a looot. and our stealth last less than a thieves stealth. yeah the phantasm hit hard but without them we deal nowhere near as much dmg as a thief. i have 2.8k armor and got backstabbed for 14k by thief. no mesmer can do that. belief me id rather deal more direct dmg that having to cast a stupid phantasm to actually have a chance.
and how long is the cd on phantasm compared to hs and backstabs?yeah thats also nowhere near as close as the thief

You need to l2p.

- HerpsADerps, OneOfThe12DerPs

Simonoly.4352:

Cush.4063:

1. Phantasms do a kitten ton of damage.
2. Phantasms have more health than clones so they are harder to kill
3. With 3 phantasms up and being in stealth that is massive damage
4. Killing them put conditions on yourself if traited
5. All mesmers stealth abilities are not on long cool downs
6. With mesmers in stealth with multipe phantasms up they can do more damage than thieves without being revealed.
7. I have more hours on my mesmer than any other class so don’t tell me I don’t play mesmer and that’s why I’m hating on it.
8. I’m not hating on mesmers but just putting down invalid arguments from the mesmers in this forum and i just hate when people defend their class with false info
8. The targetting system is fine. That’s the main point of stealth and clones, to trick you into targetting the clone instead of the player not knowing which is which.
9. I feel that that should be the only reason to be able to use stealth, as a defensive mechanic to make someone think that a clone is the player and not to hide in stealth while having only phantasms up noobing the enemy.

Thanks!

4. Clone death traits do not affect phantasms. They will only have retaliation for 5 seconds if a phantasm build.

6. Thieves can do the same thing with Thieves guild and spike you for scary damage with backstab. Phantasms have attack cooldowns and won’t constantly attack when the Mesmer is in stealth. Swings and roundabouts when comparing Thief and Mesmer stealth.

8. You’ve also provided false information.

I did not provide false information at all. What are you talking about? Lol. You just admitted it and thieves guild? Really? An “elite” yes an elite that no thief ever uses with a 180 sec CD. Please. Stop trolling

Cush.4063:

Simonoly.4352:

Cush.4063:

1. Phantasms do a kitten ton of damage.
2. Phantasms have more health than clones so they are harder to kill
3. With 3 phantasms up and being in stealth that is massive damage
4. Killing them put conditions on yourself if traited
5. All mesmers stealth abilities are not on long cool downs
6. With mesmers in stealth with multipe phantasms up they can do more damage than thieves without being revealed.
7. I have more hours on my mesmer than any other class so don’t tell me I don’t play mesmer and that’s why I’m hating on it.
8. I’m not hating on mesmers but just putting down invalid arguments from the mesmers in this forum and i just hate when people defend their class with false info
8. The targetting system is fine. That’s the main point of stealth and clones, to trick you into targetting the clone instead of the player not knowing which is which.
9. I feel that that should be the only reason to be able to use stealth, as a defensive mechanic to make someone think that a clone is the player and not to hide in stealth while having only phantasms up noobing the enemy.

Thanks!

4. Clone death traits do not affect phantasms. They will only have retaliation for 5 seconds if a phantasm build.

6. Thieves can do the same thing with Thieves guild and spike you for scary damage with backstab. Phantasms have attack cooldowns and won’t constantly attack when the Mesmer is in stealth. Swings and roundabouts when comparing Thief and Mesmer stealth.

8. You’ve also provided false information.

I did not provide false information at all. What are you talking about? Lol. You just admitted it and thieves guild? Really? An “elite” yes an elite that no thief ever uses with a 180 sec CD. Please. Stop trolling

Um, all the thieves I fight bust it out as soon as I engage so uuum… yea they do use it quite often.

Nobody should deal damage from stealth without being revealed. This is heavily used by mesmers but should also be the case for thieves, engineers and rangers.

Stealth should also affect illusions, pets and turrets, so if a mesmers uses stealth all illusions also stealth + stop attacking. Problem solved.

Uhh… I can imagine a glass mesmer mind wracking with invisible clones – boy it sounds fun. And I guess it’s all a matter of perspective – for dueling mesmer stealth is much better and stronger. For wvw roaming though – thief stealth is better.

Thieves deserve to have the best stealth ingame because the whole class is centered around stealth while mesmers are centered around illusions.

But no profession should deal damage from stealth without being revealed.

teg.1340:

Thieves deserve to have the best stealth ingame because the whole class is centered around stealth while mesmers are centered around illusions.

But no profession should deal damage from stealth without being revealed.

I assume you’re referring to illusions doing damage and not revealing the stealthed mesmer?

stealthed rangers doesnt get revealed while pet is eating u
stealthed thief doesnt get revealed if u trigger his trap

Cush.4063:

1. Phantasms do a kitten ton of damage.
2. Phantasms have more health than clones so they are harder to kill
3. With 3 phantasms up and being in stealth that is massive damage
4. Killing them put conditions on yourself if traited
5. All mesmers stealth abilities are not on long cool downs
6. With mesmers in stealth with multipe phantasms up they can do more damage than thieves without being revealed.
7. I have more hours on my mesmer than any other class so don’t tell me I don’t play mesmer and that’s why I’m hating on it.
8. I’m not hating on mesmers but just putting down invalid arguments from the mesmers in this forum and i just hate when people defend their class with false info
8. The targetting system is fine. That’s the main point of stealth and clones, to trick you into targetting the clone instead of the player not knowing which is which.
9. I feel that that should be the only reason to be able to use stealth, as a defensive mechanic to make someone think that a clone is the player and not to hide in stealth while having only phantasms up noobing the enemy.

Thanks!

1. only if you trait for it
2. they are slow moving and all damge can be negate with one roll/dodge
3.it takes a while to get 3 up and even then they have no clones giving away there position instantly
4.only damaginh one is the bleed and only really works if they are a condition mesmer, but youre complaining about phantasms, dont group builds to make them sound OP
5.yes they are, pristige is 30secs and decoy is 40, MI is on a 90 sec cooldown, that is the only stealths they get, im gonna ignore veil as its either a 3sec stealth on a 90 sec CD or 6 secs that requires you to stay rooted.
6.indeed the unrevealed part is the main advantage that mesmers have however phantasms are easilly evaded and kited.
7.so what? ive 1300 hours on mesmer alone it doesnt make you better than anyone, maybe if you say what class you are when youre getting beat by this PU Mesmer
8. and you havnt provided false info?
9.umm its working as intended

Im guessing that complaints are popping up due to PU becoming more common, its always been there but since the rlease of speed and traveller runes no one has to take focus anymore inticing mesmers into a stealth build, i use it my self, its good and allows me to rotate my CD’s effectively, ive always used it and the only difference since launch is the speed and boons, same stealth same tactics, now mantra healing and condition removal on mantra use thats a whole new story, with mantra healing and mantra toughness you can out heal a thieves dps and with the mantra condition removal on heal you can out remove condtions making perplexity easy.

Lots of biased opinions. I spend my time roughly equally between mesmer and thief (though I consider myself a mesmer main), and I think mesmer stealth is better than thief stealth.

First, to clear some things up:

1) Yes, thief traps DO reveal you if they do damage.
2) Cush got it right.
3) Don’t even try to compare phantasms to thieves guild. Thieves guild lasts for 30 seconds and is on a 3 minute cd. Phantasms can be summoned every 12-16 seconds and stay up till you die or kill them. They also recharge every 4-6 seconds, which is fairly short.
4) People are really underestimating how brutal phantasms are. Yeah, sure, you can kite/dodge them, but you can kite/dodge thieves too. The thing is, phantasm summons are on a short cd, and their attack recharge is on an even shorter cd. You’d be lucky if you managed to avoid half of a mesmer’s phantasm attacks. It’s incredibly difficult to track multiple phantasm recharges (especially different phantasms), and many strike very suddenly (swordsman, zerker). Yes, you can always kill them, but that means you’ll be spending time and cd’s killing illusions instead of the real mesmer.

There are three things that makes mesmer stealth more powerful than thief stealth, IMO:

1) Mesmers can summon phantasms to do heavy damage without getting revealed. Clones also do decent damage on condition builds. Staff clones/greatsword clones do especially well with the burning and bleeding, so you should definitely NOT dismiss their damage.

2) When a thief de-stealthes, you just tab target and immediately burst/CC. This isn’t true for mesmers. It’s very annoying to target a de-stealthing mesmer, as you have to click around, and you’ll often click a clone first. This is even more annoying because you’re getting bombarded from all sides, taking heavy damage while desperately trying to re-target the mesmer. Moreover, a mesmer can strafe behind his clones so that even when you do manage to target him, his clones still get in your LOS and take the hit for him. Mesmer stealths are also on very low cooldowns.

3) Most stealthy mesmers run PU. This gives them basically perma-regen, with very high protection up-time. They’ll also get a chance of gaining aegis from the stealth and have that up fairly frequently. Basically, they’ll be slowly regen-ing health from stealth (like thieves), but will also mitigate tons of damage even out of stealth (unlike thieves).

To those complaining about backstab thieves. The thing about thief stealth is that it’s used both offensively and defensively. And if a thief wants to commit to killing you, this usually means he won’t have enough stealth to use it defensively. If a bursty backstab thief makes a mistake, he’s probably going to die. If, on the other hand, the thief decides to use his stealth defensively, he probably won’t be able to kill you. He can sit in stealth for a long time, but your cd’s will recharge, and you’ll likely regain most of your health. For a thief, he has to wisely allocate his stealth to both defensive and offensive play.

This is untrue for mesmers. Mesmer can use stealth purely defensively, without sacrificing any of their offensive options. Most mesmers rely on phantasms for their dps, and they can keep on summoning those while hiding in stealth. A backstab thief has to at least get into melee range and will eat heavy damage if he messes up. A phantasm mesmer doesn’t even have to get near you to summon his phantasms to do just as much damage (yes, iZerkers on power PU builds do comparable damage to 0/30/30/10 backstabs).

Add on the problem of re-targeting the mesmer (which is a huge deal, IMO), distortion, blurred frenzy evade, blocks, blinks, dazes/stuns, chaos storm, chaos armor, etc., and mesmers have many more defensive options than thieves do.

bOgz.7263:

teg.1340:

Thieves deserve to have the best stealth ingame because the whole class is centered around stealth while mesmers are centered around illusions.

But no profession should deal damage from stealth without being revealed.

I assume you’re referring to illusions doing damage and not revealing the stealthed mesmer?

stealthed rangers doesnt get revealed while pet is eating u
stealthed thief doesnt get revealed if u trigger his trap

No. I referred to all professions. Nobody should deal damage from stealth without being revealed. Just read my posts carefully. Its all there.

@mango – I have to fully agree.

Mesmer is the only profession who is capable of bypassing most core mechanics of this game (at least partly). Stealth is just one example of many:

Stealth → Mesmer deals damage from stealth without being revealed
Projectiles → Mesmer can hide behind clones so the clones eat all projectiles.
Bouncing Projectiles → Bouncing projectiles are less likely to hit the mesmer due to illusions.
AOE cap → Illusions count into cleave (3 targets) and AOE caps (5 targets), thus make it less likely AOE hits the mesmer or other players around.
Targeting → Illusions (other than pets) are included into the ‘Target Next enemy’ cycle (TAB), thus make it much harder to target the actual mesmer
Blind → You blind the mesmer, but eat damage from illusions. You blind illusions but get damage from the mesmer.
Weakness → Same as blind.
Aegis → Aegis gets immidately canceled by illusions.
Interrupt → Interrupting the mesmer doesnt have any impact on illusions and vice versa.
Retaliation → Retaliation damage spreads all across mesmer and illusions, thus barely useful.

So much blind hate and you are now just making up ridiculous statements that completely warp the truth in hopes to see Mesmer nerfed into oblivion.

I’d love to play this 30/30/30/30/30 build with all weapons and instant phantasms though.

Mesmers are not gods of stealth and everything else. That’s thief. But I guess all these whiners are thief players spamming their IWIN macro and got their kitten handed to them by a PU mesmer.

correct, somehow these complainers think conditions and phantasms and stealth can all be traited for, news flash, you can only really focus one of the three

Cush.4063:

I did not provide false information at all. What are you talking about? Lol. You just admitted it and thieves guild? Really? An “elite” yes an elite that no thief ever uses with a 180 sec CD. Please. Stop trolling

You said that killing phantasms applies conditions if the Mesmer has traited for on-death traits. That is false information.

You never see a Thief using Thieves guild? Where have you been man? Either way, the Thieves will still attack you whilst a Thief moves around in stealth. It’s the same principle.

You don’t need to trait for phantasms and conditions for them to be deadly. Case in point is the PU condi-build. A sword/pistol and scepter/torch PU mesmer will inflict tons of conditions from their duelists, scepter, and clone deaths — all while being able to reap the benefits of high stealth up-time.

ive grown tired of this debate the game isnt balanced for 1v1 there we go thread over go home

So because a single very specific (PU-condi roaming troll) build works because people are dying due to their own stupidity is a valid reason to make up ridiculous ‘facts’ in order to nerf all Mesmers?

Dat logic yo!

RedCobra.7693:

ive grown tired of this debate the game isnt balanced for 1v1 there we go thread over go home

Yep its kind of derailed into another “list all the features of a class out of context in order to make that class sound god-like”. The Thief forum used to get hit with those all the time. Exhausting to read.

Aveneo.2068:

So because a single very specific (PU-condi roaming troll) build works because people are dying due to their own stupidity is a valid reason to make up ridiculous ‘facts’ in order to nerf all Mesmers?

Dat logic yo!

I’m going to take a wild guess that you play mesmer? If it makes you feel better, people QQ just as much (if not more) about thief stealth.

Most of what people have said about mesmer stealth is pretty reasonable (minus those who clearly play PU specs). PU builds (both power and condi) are easy to play, dish out heavy phantasm dps, and give mesmers a wealth of low cd defensive options from stealth (regen, protection, aegis, and the pain of having to re-target). As far as I’m aware, these aren’t “ridiculous ‘facts’”.

And no one is calling for nerfs to “all Mesmers”, as you suggest. A good number of mesmers don’t play stealth-heavy PU builds (myself included). I honestly think having phantasms reveal the mesmer upon damage would be a fair change, given the way stealth works for other classes.

Mesmer mechanics are misdirection and illusion. Part of misdirection is stealth. Clones are only worth a crap if you have an opportunity to break target with someone focusing on you.