Guild Wars 2

mango.9267:

Aveneo.2068:

So because a single very specific (PU-condi roaming troll) build works because people are dying due to their own stupidity is a valid reason to make up ridiculous ‘facts’ in order to nerf all Mesmers?

Dat logic yo!

I’m going to take a wild guess that you play mesmer? If it makes you feel better, people QQ just as much (if not more) about thief stealth.

Actually, I have all classes at level 80 and have clocked quite a bit of time on each. As I recall my Thief has the most WvW ranks and my Ranger the most PvP ranks.

Most of what people have said about mesmer stealth is pretty reasonable (minus those who clearly play PU specs). PU builds (both power and condi) are easy to play, dish out heavy phantasm dps, and give mesmers a wealth of low cd defensive options from stealth (regen, protection, aegis, and the pain of having to re-target). As far as I’m aware, these aren’t “ridiculous ‘facts’”.

Same could be said about D/D or D/P thieves.

No, people make stuff up as if it applies to all Mesmers and make big lists of all things Mesmers can apparently do (if they have a 30/30/30/30/30 build). Only a few actually use ‘PU’ to indicate a specific build which may be perceived as performing above-average. But it seems a lot of people just generalize like crazy and instead of all their dribble they could have just posted “Waa waa waa Mesmer kill me OP NERF!” as that’s what it comes down to.

And no one is calling for nerfs to “all Mesmers”, as you suggest. A good number of mesmers don’t play stealth-heavy PU builds (myself included). I honestly think having phantasms reveal the mesmer upon damage would be a fair change, given the way stealth works for other classes.

Which ‘other classes’ are you referring to? As far as I know only the Thief class has actual stealth as Utility skills (next to weapon combos). Ranger has a very pitiful stealth on their LB which was slapped on so ANet could remove vulnerability and place a nerfed version on Rapid Fire and they have the Hide In Plain Sight master trait (20 points in WS) which only works when incapacitated (and isn’t Stealth, it’s Camouflage). Engineer has it on a thrown Elixir S or as a combo when blasting a smokefield from a bomb or flame turret with their rifle.

As to their workings… As I recall, Thieves Guild minions attacking a target does not drop a Thief out of stealth nor grant Revealed and as far as I am aware traps getting triggered does not cause the Thief to drop out of stealth nor grant Revealed either. Only a direct attack will cause revealed, but only if the attack actually lands to my knowledge. But separate minions dealing damage or a trap triggering does not.

So when ANet would give Mesmers Revealed status when their phantasms/clones attack Thieves should get Revealed too when someone triggers a trap, gets hit by the Thieves Guild or gets damage from caltrops. Does this sound like a good deal?

Might be better to remove Stealth from the game entirely (which isn’t such a bad idea in my opinion).

So no, it’s not really fair to give Revealed to Mesmers whenever a clone or phantasm attacks because this would make stealth completely unreliable and pointless while similar style attacks do not cause a Thief to be Revealed either.

Aveneo.2068:

So no, it’s not really fair to give Revealed to Mesmers whenever a clone or phantasm attacks because this would make stealth completely unreliable and pointless while similar style attacks do not cause a Thief to be Revealed either.

There’s more to be said than the fact that phantasms act like minions. They’re similar in a number of ways, but also different in important ways. I think there should be much more to consider than whether or not an attack was directly from you.

The main difference is that for mesmers, phantasms are often their main source of dps. Many mesmer builds without phantasm dps would be severely crippled. The same can’t be said about thief minions or ranger pets.

For thieves, rangers, and engi’s to dish out their main source of dps, they do have to get revealed. Because of the way mesmers are, they can still maintain all of their offensive options while remaining in stealth. No other class works like this. (On a related note, I don’t think clone attacks should reveal the mesmer, since that’s usually not a main source of dps).

P.S. For what it’s worth, I don’t think you should be able to drop caltrops without getting revealed as well.

@mango.9267
I like your style

One would have to agree, that mesmer stlealth fills a special role. All other professions with stealth have a streight forward use of it. On my first condition Mesmer build, which involved PU, my Clones (from Staff) where one of my main dmg sources, while I myself could hide in stealth. The build had other issues, like ability to chase, ability to dmg siege and such, ability to quickly deal with a foe, which it could not. That’s why I left this direction and started to not like PU builds. They push ur survivability greatly, but they take 30 trait points, that one could have used to push dmg output.

As a player who plays Mesmer like 80% of the time, I could live without PU. What I could not live without is Decoay, which is the best stealth skill ever IMO. 1st it’s a stun breaker, 2nd it stealth you, 3rd it leaves a clone behind and 4th it ignores the revealed debuff. This can be used in so so many ways, offensively and defensively.

This is why the move of Illusionist’s Clerity to master tier might have been a mistake (I still welcomed it, because it boosts my current build perfectly). Not only lowers it the CD of Decoy, but of all other illsuion summons, like Phantams, too.

All in all, I like the way Mesmer stlealth works. One might still think about an addaption. The ability to deal dmg in stealth is strong, but it becomes insane, when u think what a thief and a mesmer togehter could achieve: Hide in Shadow refuge and still bombard ur target. This is why an addeption of the current stealth mechanics for Mesmer might be adequate. One should but be carefull, not to overdo it.

@RedCobra
OK, you completely misunderstood me it seems on certain parts. Let me go through your post.

1. You’re going to trait for it regardless if you’re running a PU mesmer build. Unless you’re trying to go out of the ordinary but it’s not going to be as effective.

2. They may be slow moving but when you have 2-3 up that’s a lot less time inbetween attacks and saying a dodge roll will get you out of it you only get 2 dodge rolls so….when you have lets say 2 phantasms up you can dodge those 2 attacks if you are pretty good at it, not to mention that the mesmer may not plant them all down at the same time so timing your dodges will be a bit harder to do and you have to focus your eyes onto the phantasms to know when to dodge. This leaves open the mesmer to attack you which you can’t dodge because you don’t have any left. Add in a 3rd phanatasm and that’s 2 attacks you can’t dodge. Now after those initial attacks your dodge meter will not be ready to dodge by the time the next phanatsm/mesmer attacks come around again. You can’t negate all damage from one roll/dodge. You’re only solution is to kill the mesmer faster or kill the phantasms/clones which will add a condition onto you. BUT killing phantasms doesn’t put a hefty condition on you so it’s reasonable to kill them even though they have more health than a clone they still are relatively easy to take down compared to a minion from a necro.

3. It doesn’t take that long to get 3 phantasms up but I understand what you’re saying about giving away your position with no clones. But hiding in stealth lets the phantasms apply their damage anyways while the mesmer noobs it up watching them do all the damage. When he comes back out of stealth, yes he is vulnerable for attack.

4. I’m not insulting you, I just don’t understand what you wrote completely so I’ll refrain from commenting on this one.

5. Alright, they are on longer CD’s, I guess I just felt that they weren’t because by the time I was in for my next enemy I always had at least one available to use again and by the time that one was done I had another, etc. I guess what I was trying to say was that most of the time when you come up to an enemy you usually have some of your invis skills off of CD. This one I’ll give to you in the context of it being a longer CD. But when it comes to being able to use them with a PU build, you usually always have some off of CD by the time you get into your next fight unless you blow all of them at once in a single fight and still haven’t finished the fight and need to use another.

6. Again, they may be easily evaded but when you have multiple up like I said before you can’t dodge forever and kiting either gets you off of the point or is running away from the fight which basically means you lost.

7. You completely misunderstood what I was saying. I was not saying I was better than anyone at all. If you read what I said, I was saying that so someone didn’t come at me and say that I was saying this because I’m, lets say a necro?, and that it’s a L2P issue. I was proving that it’s not because I’m dying and annoyed from mesmers but because I play the class and I’m talking about myself basically. I hope you get what I’m saying here.

8. I don’t get what you’re saying here. That I’m lying about the targeting system being good? What I was saying in my original post was that a mesmer has stealth for one reason only imo, and that reason is to trick the opponent into thinking that the player is one of his clones. If you all want the targeting system to always select the player with a mesmer than a PU build would be destroyed unless you’re using it for what I think it shouldn’t be used for and that is just to hide in the shadows and take a break while your phantasms and clones do all the damage.

9. So you’re saying that you use the PU build so that you can hide in the shadows and let the phantasms do the damage but not to actually trick the opponent into thinking one of your clones is you?

Overall, a mesmer is not overpowered in the slightest compared to a class such as the MM Necro or Spirit Ranger when their minions have health pools closely related to the players themselves. All I was doing was pointing out some of the flaws in what people were saying about L2P issues and when people say false things like they did it really irks me. But what I’m getting from you is that you’re a mesmer that uses his invisibility to hide and let the phantasms do the work for you and not for its real purpose which is to fool the opponent into thinking youre someone else and getting their targeting messed up. The mesmer class description says it’s supposed to be a class that tricks you, not hides from you. If you’re not what I’m thinking you are when it comes to a mesmer then please explain you’re reasoning on #8 and #9 that you opposed me on.

Thanks!

Tbh i felt the blackwater was amazing for dueling but outside that i was a bit meh with it. If people want to leave the fight, they leave the fight, there is nothing you can really do about it.

Im playing a slight variant on the Blackwater atm, it’s still technically a PU build but with phantasm damage from duelist and zerker. So it’s a mix of condis and straight up direct damage, i find it a lot better for open world roaming but not as good for outright dueling. But im willing to take the extra deaths so i at least have a shot at stopping people from running with zerker, illusionary leap and magic bullet.

bOgz.7263:

stealthed thief doesnt get revealed if u trigger his trap

Triggering spike trap will reveal the thied. The other traps don’t deal damage, afaik.

As a thief I laugh every time a Mesmer stealths. I’ll just stealth off his illusions and wait for him to reveal himself, then spike him ^^

Geiir.7603:

As a thief I laugh every time a Mesmer stealths. I’ll just stealth off his illusions and wait for him to reveal himself, then spike him ^^

see.. thief is always more powerful than mesmer when it comes to stealth.

As a Mesmer, I allways laugh about thieves, I wait till they come out of stealth (not that hard to predict) and let my phantasm kill them

Basicly a thief on the offensive can be evaded, dodged and kited until his stealth wears of. And I don’t even need to retarget him, for my clones are better than me in dealing dmg. I just wait with my GS until they pop shadow refuge and they are done… most of the times.

There wouldn’t be much point to clones if the enemy could just hold target on you all the time.
The very short periods of stealth allowed to the Mesmer are just there to break the target lock and give the clones a chance to confuse you.

As for clone damage: Clones are slow and clumsy. They need to get to melee range to hit you and they only have a few seconds life once they are commanded to ‘kill’. Just evade them.
Phantasms are a different matter – but they are easy to identify because they’re pink and transparent.

I rolled a Mes because I found them difficult to fight and wanted to find out their weaknesses. I suggest you do the same.

Contiguous.1345:

There wouldn’t be much point to clones if the enemy could just hold target on you all the time.
The very short periods of stealth allowed to the Mesmer are just there to break the target lock and give the clones a chance to confuse you.

As for clone damage: Clones are slow and clumsy. They need to get to melee range to hit you and they only have a few seconds life once they are commanded to ‘kill’. Just evade them.
Phantasms are a different matter – but they are easy to identify because they’re pink and transparent.

I rolled a Mes because I found them difficult to fight and wanted to find out their weaknesses. I suggest you do the same.

Not with staff clones. When you have multiple staff clones up they throw a kitten tons of conditions on you. <3 mesmer staff

TyPin.9860:

As a Mesmer, I allways laugh about thieves, I wait till they come out of stealth (not that hard to predict) and let my phantasm kill them

Basicly a thief on the offensive can be evaded, dodged and kited until his stealth wears of. And I don’t even need to retarget him, for my clones are better than me in dealing dmg. I just wait with my GS until they pop shadow refuge and they are done… most of the times.

Then you’re one the few good ones out there. Most people just kitten around and don’t know what to do. The worst thing Evers is wasting a backstab on a clone because the Mesmer evades just when he’s suppose to >_< Allthough I usually just keep stealthing on your phantasms until I get myself positioned for a good combo

blah blah blah. i hate avoiding the point so yeah, we all know mesmers need a little toning down. qq me. qq this. qq that. qq whatever. tone it down.

Cush.4063:

Contiguous.1345:

There wouldn’t be much point to clones if the enemy could just hold target on you all the time.
The very short periods of stealth allowed to the Mesmer are just there to break the target lock and give the clones a chance to confuse you.

As for clone damage: Clones are slow and clumsy. They need to get to melee range to hit you and they only have a few seconds life once they are commanded to ‘kill’. Just evade them.
Phantasms are a different matter – but they are easy to identify because they’re pink and transparent.

I rolled a Mes because I found them difficult to fight and wanted to find out their weaknesses. I suggest you do the same.

Not with staff clones. When you have multiple staff clones up they throw a kitten tons of conditions on you. <3 mesmer staff

dont bring up clone damage and phantasm damage, you should only focus on one as you can only really trait into one with PU, if you complete your PU build you will more than likely miss on quite a few major phantasm traits, your problem is not with PU as i can make a build without it that would do what you are explaining,

on my other point, youre focusing to kitten the best points of the mesmer, any class sounds OP when you do this maybe if someone reminded you the bad points and the negatives of what youre describing:

1 – little to no aoe without having to target someone.
2 – difficult to attack without having to target somone
3 – no chase utilities except blink
4 – if traited for PU phantasms are dramatically weaker than a true phantasms build
5 – Stealth uses your elite skill one utility and an offhand weapon slot
6 – More than likely you will take deceptive evasion which will also give away your position while in stealth

Geiir.7603:

TyPin.9860:

As a Mesmer, I allways laugh about thieves, I wait till they come out of stealth (not that hard to predict) and let my phantasm kill them

Basicly a thief on the offensive can be evaded, dodged and kited until his stealth wears of. And I don’t even need to retarget him, for my clones are better than me in dealing dmg. I just wait with my GS until they pop shadow refuge and they are done… most of the times.

Then you’re one the few good ones out there. Most people just kitten around and don’t know what to do. The worst thing Evers is wasting a backstab on a clone because the Mesmer evades just when he’s suppose to >_< Allthough I usually just keep stealthing on your phantasms until I get myself positioned for a good combo

Hehe, I wouldn’t say I am one of the good ones, for I sucked after 1 month break over christmas and new year^^. I think I am the average and I meet mostly average thieves. Yesterday one thief tried to suprise me. But I heared him dodge, to get some speed I suppose, before he attacked. So he then backstabbed my clone from decoy. He then had trouble dealing with my duelist and zerker. His luck was, that I opened with the wrong weapon and had my weapon switch not ready when he used shadow refuge and he was able to run away. I have not seen him again^^

its pretty cool now with my new build as i can out heal a thief’s dps, i think what people dont like about mesmers is that their functionality is harder to grasp than others, but this comes with both negatives and very unique bonuses

TyPin.9860:

Geiir.7603:

TyPin.9860:

As a Mesmer, I allways laugh about thieves, I wait till they come out of stealth (not that hard to predict) and let my phantasm kill them

Basicly a thief on the offensive can be evaded, dodged and kited until his stealth wears of. And I don’t even need to retarget him, for my clones are better than me in dealing dmg. I just wait with my GS until they pop shadow refuge and they are done… most of the times.

Then you’re one the few good ones out there. Most people just kitten around and don’t know what to do. The worst thing Evers is wasting a backstab on a clone because the Mesmer evades just when he’s suppose to >_< Allthough I usually just keep stealthing on your phantasms until I get myself positioned for a good combo

Hehe, I wouldn’t say I am one of the good ones, for I sucked after 1 month break over christmas and new year^^. I think I am the average and I meet mostly average thieves. Yesterday one thief tried to suprise me. But I heared him dodge, to get some speed I suppose, before he attacked. So he then backstabbed my clone from decoy. He then had trouble dealing with my duelist and zerker. His luck was, that I opened with the wrong weapon and had my weapon switch not ready when he used shadow refuge and he was able to run away. I have not seen him again^^

Haha, nice ^^ Yeah, most of the thieves I meet are below average skill level… There’s very few thieves that get me down in WvW, especially if I’m on my thief ;p

Geiir.7603:

TyPin.9860:

Geiir.7603:

TyPin.9860:

As a Mesmer, I allways laugh about thieves, I wait till they come out of stealth (not that hard to predict) and let my phantasm kill them

Basicly a thief on the offensive can be evaded, dodged and kited until his stealth wears of. And I don’t even need to retarget him, for my clones are better than me in dealing dmg. I just wait with my GS until they pop shadow refuge and they are done… most of the times.

Then you’re one the few good ones out there. Most people just kitten around and don’t know what to do. The worst thing Evers is wasting a backstab on a clone because the Mesmer evades just when he’s suppose to >_< Allthough I usually just keep stealthing on your phantasms until I get myself positioned for a good combo

Hehe, I wouldn’t say I am one of the good ones, for I sucked after 1 month break over christmas and new year^^. I think I am the average and I meet mostly average thieves. Yesterday one thief tried to suprise me. But I heared him dodge, to get some speed I suppose, before he attacked. So he then backstabbed my clone from decoy. He then had trouble dealing with my duelist and zerker. His luck was, that I opened with the wrong weapon and had my weapon switch not ready when he used shadow refuge and he was able to run away. I have not seen him again^^

Haha, nice ^^ Yeah, most of the thieves I meet are below average skill level… There’s very few thieves that get me down in WvW, especially if I’m on my thief ;p

its the thieves that sprint for you back that are easy xD i alsways like trolling them with mantra toughness heals and spinning 360 degrees :P out heals them every time

teg.1340:

When Mesmer uses stealth all illusions should also stealth and stop attacking. Every damage done from stealth (either mesmer or illusions) should trigger revealed.

Same changes should apply to Thief + Thiefs Guild and Engineers + Turrets.

Following this logic, all conditions also should stop ticking while the source is in stealth. Because illusions are no more than killable conditions. Unlike pets where owner has control over their actions and can change their target.

Yaro.3251:

Because illusions are no more than killable conditions.

Now I’ve read everything.

Lets cut the bs for a minute. PU mesmer while strong has kittenty chase. Spike only really happens in the condi version with confusion. Phant spike is somewhat predictable early in a fight but once the phantasms get out it really is best to run. Pu builds generally use a torch so you only have to deal with one heavy hitting phantasm at a time. The only phantasm truly a pain to kill is the swordsman for melee class. The phantasm literally puts 240 units of distance between you and it at all times.

The only reason some player complain is that they hate stealth and that they like to duel. WvW meta is about taking keep and camps. Zerging is the meta and PU is crappy in a zerg. Roaming builds are designed to roam that means easy disengages. That means if you want to roam and/or duel build for it. Don’t expect your zerg build to keep up with a roaming build in a zerg that roaming build will not keep up with you. It really is as simple as that.

Mesmers are extremely hard to deal with as a new player, at the higher end of the skill curve we are no more powerful tan any other class. The key to beat us is spotting the real mesmer which unfortunately only comes with practice.

Chorazin.4107:

Tbh i felt the blackwater was amazing for dueling but outside that i was a bit meh with it. If people want to leave the fight, they leave the fight, there is nothing you can really do about it.

Im playing a slight variant on the Blackwater atm, it’s still technically a PU build but with phantasm damage from duelist and zerker. So it’s a mix of condis and straight up direct damage, i find it a lot better for open world roaming but not as good for outright dueling. But im willing to take the extra deaths so i at least have a shot at stopping people from running with zerker, illusionary leap and magic bullet.

I played blackwater for a while. Then I realized that PU-Condi was a cheese build that allowed me to kill other players reliably with little or no actual skill or any possiblity of gain in personal skill. It was a decision, as a noob mesmer, that was friendly for noobs. It made sense to me at the time. As time passed I didn’t feel like I’d really beaten a skilled player when they died. 99% of the time I had just fired off a couple things and danced around while the condis killed them. It required almost no real skill to play, and I usually ended the fights with no real idea of how I’d actually killed them.

I dumped the condi build, salvaged the gear, went with a power build, and improved a ton as a player since I was actually forced to learn how to play the class. I also have no issue beating PU-Condi mesmers now.

Condi mesmer is a crutch and I almost feel bad for mesmers who lean on it.

Hickeroar.9734:

Chorazin.4107:

Tbh i felt the blackwater was amazing for dueling but outside that i was a bit meh with it. If people want to leave the fight, they leave the fight, there is nothing you can really do about it.

Im playing a slight variant on the Blackwater atm, it’s still technically a PU build but with phantasm damage from duelist and zerker. So it’s a mix of condis and straight up direct damage, i find it a lot better for open world roaming but not as good for outright dueling. But im willing to take the extra deaths so i at least have a shot at stopping people from running with zerker, illusionary leap and magic bullet.

I played blackwater for a while. Then I realized that PU-Condi was a cheese build that allowed me to kill other players reliably with little or no actual skill or any possiblity of gain in personal skill. It was a decision, as a noob mesmer, that was friendly for noobs. It made sense to me at the time. As time passed I didn’t feel like I’d really beaten a skilled player when they died. 99% of the time I had just fired off a couple things and danced around while the condis killed them. It required almost no real skill to play, and I usually ended the fights with no real idea of how I’d actually killed them.

I dumped the condi build, salvaged the gear, went with a power build, and improved a ton as a player since I was actually forced to learn how to play the class. I also have no issue beating PU-Condi mesmers now.

Condi mesmer is a crutch and I almost feel bad for mesmers who lean on it.

im currently running a power PU build, give it a try, outnumbered situations become do-able if you carefully handle your cooldowns

RedCobra.7693:

Hickeroar.9734:

Chorazin.4107:

Tbh i felt the blackwater was amazing for dueling but outside that i was a bit meh with it. If people want to leave the fight, they leave the fight, there is nothing you can really do about it.

Im playing a slight variant on the Blackwater atm, it’s still technically a PU build but with phantasm damage from duelist and zerker. So it’s a mix of condis and straight up direct damage, i find it a lot better for open world roaming but not as good for outright dueling. But im willing to take the extra deaths so i at least have a shot at stopping people from running with zerker, illusionary leap and magic bullet.

I played blackwater for a while. Then I realized that PU-Condi was a cheese build that allowed me to kill other players reliably with little or no actual skill or any possiblity of gain in personal skill. It was a decision, as a noob mesmer, that was friendly for noobs. It made sense to me at the time. As time passed I didn’t feel like I’d really beaten a skilled player when they died. 99% of the time I had just fired off a couple things and danced around while the condis killed them. It required almost no real skill to play, and I usually ended the fights with no real idea of how I’d actually killed them.

I dumped the condi build, salvaged the gear, went with a power build, and improved a ton as a player since I was actually forced to learn how to play the class. I also have no issue beating PU-Condi mesmers now.

Condi mesmer is a crutch and I almost feel bad for mesmers who lean on it.

im currently running a power PU build, give it a try, outnumbered situations become do-able if you carefully handle your cooldowns

I’ve been tempted to, but at the moment I’m running a 30/30/10, full zerk build that deals silly amounts of damage. My Attack is about 3800, and I just don’t want to respec to 20/20/30 or something and sacrifice the damage and some of my vital traits.

Mogar.9216:

Mesmers are extremely hard to deal with as a new player, at the higher end of the skill curve we are no more powerful tan any other class. The key to beat us is spotting the real mesmer which unfortunately only comes with practice.

Any time I see a mesmer say this, I immediately know they are no where near the higher end of the skill curve.

dreztina.4820:

Mogar.9216:

Mesmers are extremely hard to deal with as a new player, at the higher end of the skill curve we are no more powerful tan any other class. The key to beat us is spotting the real mesmer which unfortunately only comes with practice.

Any time I see a mesmer say this, I immediately know they are no where near the higher end of the skill curve.

many skilled mesmers will be prepared for focus or bursts, i know my self that i have many different tricks up my sleeve but to be honest the guy has a point, theres truth to what he’s saying

I almost always win against them, there was a few skilled ones that gave me a run for my money, but it still usually ends with me telling them PU

dreztina.4820:

Mogar.9216:

Mesmers are extremely hard to deal with as a new player, at the higher end of the skill curve we are no more powerful tan any other class. The key to beat us is spotting the real mesmer which unfortunately only comes with practice.

Any time I see a mesmer say this, I immediately know they are no where near the higher end of the skill curve.

If you disagree with what I said then make a counter argument. Attacking me personally just make you seem like a pompous kitten . See how easy it is? seems your are not the only one who knows how to throw personal insults around.

Frigid.6027:

Dawdler.8521:

You fight them in exactly the same way you fight a perma-stealth thief.

Except mesmers can deal tons of damage while hiding in stealth. Thieves have to reveal themselves, but a mesmer can have the clones up dealing damage the whole time they are hiding.

Phantasms deal damage, not clones. If you want to fight a Mesmer you’re going to need to know how to spot the difference.

I ran PU mes in wvw for a while and did not enjoy it, mainly because of the lack of mobility after being used to travelers runes for soo long. Stealth DOES get broken if u cast a phantasm within stealth and if u cast your Phantasmal Mage in stealth u will get the revealed debuff. (as long as the Phantasmal Mages attack hits). The difference between Clone and Phantasm is very noticeable, Clones will look exactly like the player and cast the same autoattack skill of the the weapon the mesmer was using when they made the clone. A phantasm will look like the character BUT will be completely pink/purple and translucent and not attack with an autoattack skill but rather a skill only available to the phantasm.

DarkSouled.3854:

I ran PU mes in wvw for a while and did not enjoy it, mainly because of the lack of mobility after being used to travelers runes for soo long. Stealth DOES get broken if u cast a phantasm within stealth and if u cast your Phantasmal Mage in stealth u will get the revealed debuff.

I did not try the phantasmal mage, but as u can see here: I cast 2 phantasms and remain stealthed.

DarkSouled.3854:

I ran PU mes in wvw for a while and did not enjoy it, mainly because of the lack of mobility after being used to travelers runes for soo long.

A PU build can be ran with traveler’s runes…the synergy between the runes and what the build does (conditions and boons) is obvious, plus the speed buffs makes cleave attacks with a main hand sword a good source of damage.

I am not a fan of “all in” with condi damage / duration an counting on players to basically suicide by clone destruction and confusion stacks with PU. Using S/T and staff, you can do nice damage spikes with blurred frenzy and warlock while still getting some modest condi pressure, and having all the defense of PU.

To answer the OPs point and some other comments, a mesmer with torch, decoy, MI, maybe even veil and the clone @ 25% health trait…all that is still not like fighting a thief. First, mesmers do not have punishing stealth attacks to look out for, it’s purely defensive besides the burning and blast on prestige end. Second, all mesmer sources of stealth are on demand rather than attack skill, so that changes how you fight as well. A thief you need to deny cloak and dagger (dodge, snare, positioning), or trying to deny multiple leaps off black powder by getting on the edge of field, and possibly causing revealed if they have an accidental HS hit in stealth.