Guild Wars 2

How is this done…..I hope Anet does it based solely on WvW populations

It’s no secret that coverage = wins in WvW

Jinks.2057:

How is this done…..I hope Anet does it based solely on WvW populations

It’s no secret that coverage = wins in WvW

There’s no magic quotient for “skill” in the leaderboards. If wins are determined by coverage as you say, then the leaderboards are absolutely an analysis of coverage, so they can just set up the leagues by the leaderboards.

“The idea here is to look at recent WvW ratings and match up worlds in similar levels, with a gold league, a silver league, and so on.”

so take servers 1-6 place them in a league, take 7-12 place them in a league, take 13-18 and finally 19-24

Sarrs.4831:

Jinks.2057:

How is this done…..I hope Anet does it based solely on WvW populations

It’s no secret that coverage = wins in WvW

There’s no magic quotient for “skill” in the leaderboards. If wins are determined by coverage as you say, then the leaderboards are absolutely an analysis of coverage, so they can just set up the leagues by the leaderboards.

I don’t think enough time has passed for the random glicko to work out the correct order of servers. The middle is still a jumble.

I’m pretty sure anet has better stats than what we have access to as well.

Jinks.2057:

Sarrs.4831:

Jinks.2057:

How is this done…..I hope Anet does it based solely on WvW populations

It’s no secret that coverage = wins in WvW

There’s no magic quotient for “skill” in the leaderboards. If wins are determined by coverage as you say, then the leaderboards are absolutely an analysis of coverage, so they can just set up the leagues by the leaderboards.

I don’t think enough time has passed for the random glicko to work out the correct order of servers. The middle is still a jumble.

I’m pretty sure anet has better stats than what we have access to as well.

Doubtful. The current rankings are pretty good. The match ups from week to week may not be good, but the rankings are indicative of current level.

Jinks.2057:

I don’t think enough time has passed for the random glicko to work out the correct order of servers. The middle is still a jumble.

Thats because the spread on the RNG is too high, the ranks are probably about where they need to be at this point (and this probably explains why the spread hasn’t been changed yet). My bigger concern is the miscommunication on whether we’re working with 4 US leagues or 2 US leagues (and why its not 3 US leagues).

Splitting 2/12 is beyond bizarre to me, while the EU 3/9 makes a lot more sense because of the server numbers and 27 being otherwise indivisible evenly. Why would NA be 2/12, it would make more sense as 3/8 or 4/6 (preferably the latter as it locks out NA T1 from as many other servers as possible, as they are the real problem children with respect to leagues).

If 6 servers are going to be playing in one league, how many maps will we be using?

Seigfried.5938:

If 6 servers are going to be playing in one league, how many maps will we be using?

I assume 4, it’s going to be the same except you’re going to have server a,b,c,d,e,f in the same league where the first week will be a vs c vs e and b vs d vs f then the week after you will have a vs b vs e and c vs d vs f then a vs d vs f and c vs b vs e etc

Le Rooster.8715:

Seigfried.5938:

If 6 servers are going to be playing in one league, how many maps will we be using?

I assume 4, it’s going to be the same except you’re going to have server a,b,c,d,e,f in the same league where the first week will be a vs c vs e and b vs d vs f then the week after you will have a vs b vs e and c vs d vs f then a vs d vs f and c vs b vs e etc

Aah that makes so much more sense, thanks.

Le Rooster.8715:

“The idea here is to look at recent WvW ratings and match up worlds in similar levels, with a gold league, a silver league, and so on.”

so take servers 1-6 place them in a league, take 7-12 place them in a league, take 13-18 and finally 19-24

I dont know about you, but imo in this system the (current) top tier servers will always win. WvW is only about population. Strats and skills only decide close matchups between servers with similar wvw populations. Its a shame, but its just how it is.

It is easy i think. Every server will get some RNG rating and servers will be divided between leagues based on those rng ratings.

Le Rooster.8715:

“The idea here is to look at recent WvW ratings and match up worlds in similar levels, with a gold league, a silver league, and so on.”

Considering that ratings are now worthless due to matchups with a random component, that’s quite amusing to hear.

The problem w/ current glicko under randomization is that a mid tier server who fights upper tiers is going to rake in the Glicko Pts due to “over performing” in the eyes of the system.

Look at the matchups now. Darkhaven is losing pretty significantly but gaining points.

According to Dulfys transcripts from the anniversary board:

“WvW season one announced – On October 4, running for 7 weeks, we will be creating from US and Euro worlds WvW leagues. (3 leagues of 9 worlds each for Euro servers and 2 leagues of 12 worlds each for US servers). We have created a schedule of match ups and each world will be matched at least one time against every other world in their league.”

I read that as Arenanet already taken care of who’ll you match up with.

I’m really, really extremley wary and quite frustrated at the moment. Why can’t Arenanet be in touch and integrate their dedicated WvW community instead of alienating them with their decisionmaking?

So NA get’s 9 per league…..o my that leaves mag in gold league

ROFLMAO

O kitten Ebay looks like we could creep up to #9 server…….need to throw week

Jinks.2057:

So NA get’s 9 per league…..o my that leaves mag in gold league

ROFLMAO

O kitten Ebay looks like we could creep up to #9 server…….need to throw week

NA gets 12, EU gets 9

Genev.2450:

Jinks.2057:

So NA get’s 9 per league…..o my that leaves mag in gold league

ROFLMAO

O kitten Ebay looks like we could creep up to #9 server…….need to throw week

NA gets 12, EU gets 9

So NA is only going to have 2 leagues…../fail devoncarter /fail

Will there be anything special between 2 seasons to allow some movement? As in, maybe a period with free transfers and shorter matches to change the rankings up a bit.

Devon, ty for your reply.
Could you please reassure us that population differences and coverage differences will be taken into consideration? I personally don’t care about rewards. What I care about is that most servers in t7 and t8 will get obliterated by higher tier servers. Which will lead to lack of morale and any participation on those servers.

Would it be possible to introduce some sort of smaller scale objectives for lower tier servers? Say if they can do well during NA prime time? I know you said you play on FC or ET, so you should be aware of chances these servers have to fight servers with big Oceanic presence and a higher population. Maybe a title like Defender of ET or Defender of AR for low score server players if they do get a certain number of wxp?

It would clear up a lot of confusion and qqing I hear in map chat if you could post explaining why these issues will not be a problem.

TY again for your communication in your own free time. And most of the people understand that you are doing a lot considering the resources you have been given.
Its just that we wish you had more resources:)

Cheers

Personally I wish anet would encourage 2v1 more.

DevonCarver.5370:

I’ve consistently said we are doing 2 leagues in NA and 3 in EU. The leagues will be broken up strictly by world rating at the conclusion of the matchup prior to the league start.

Its still fail.

In NA you will have the 12th ranked server vs T1 coverage.

WTF

3 leagues is way better module with championship week to close out

It appears this will discourage the dispersal of guilds.

Many guilds have seemingly started looking around at lower tier servers to escape the lag heavy Zerg heavy top tier servers. I can’t see them wanting to move if they will have to pay fees AND get punished in the way of poor/less rewards

DevonCarver.5370:

Jinks.2057:

DevonCarver.5370:

I’ve consistently said we are doing 2 leagues in NA and 3 in EU. The leagues will be broken up strictly by world rating at the conclusion of the matchup prior to the league start.

Its still fail.

In NA you will have the 12th ranked server vs T1 coverage.

WTF

3 leagues is way better module with championship week to close out

We literally can’t do three equal leagues in NA as there are 24 servers. That would leave us with 2 servers per league with no match up every single week.

4 leagues of 6 then. This will kill servers 7-12 who’s population will either xfer to top of Gold league or top of Silver League.

OR

You can institute a handicap system that equalizes things

@Devon,

I think 2 leagues is fine for NA. I just really hope you factor in the differences in WvW population. There needs to be a different scoring system or the end results of the league will look pretty much the same as the current rankings.

style.6173:

@Devon,

I think 2 leagues is fine for NA. I just really hope you factor in the differences in WvW population. There needs to be a different scoring system or the end results of the league will look pretty much the same as the current rankings.

I would go so far as to say kills give points.

You wipe that T1 Blob you just got your server 100 pts to your score

Being outmanned gives double points on that map or something like that.

So do 4 leagues in NA. This eliminates the enormous population difference from server 1 to server 12 and 13 to 24.

If you really think the server that is ranked 12th at the start of this stands any chance against the top servers you are delusional.

4leagues is much better for NA If you have only 2 league it will keep a stale feeling between each season. 4 leagues allow server to see their league evolution and keep more intense match up in order to climb league ranks.

We, the people of lower tiers, don’t mind testing our metal against tough odds. We do however mind it when the servers with the most players and best coverage gets the best rewards purely for the numbers reason only.

But as you said in another topic, wvw isn’t fair. All rank 12 has to do is throw enough matches to drop to rank 13 and get the best rewards.

kittening dumb idea’s. RIP WvW, RIP quality over quantity and hello 1 server per league rolling 80 man q’s on every map with hour long waiting times to get onto the map. This is by far the worst idea in a long list of really bad kittening idea’s that Anet has come out with since launch.

How you don’t see this blows my kittening mind.

DevonCarver.5370:

skeet.1390:

So do 4 leagues in NA. This eliminates the enormous population difference from server 1 to server 12 and 13 to 24.

If you really think the server that is ranked 12th at the start of this stands any chance against the top servers you are delusional.

I never said they did. However, I’d argue that they do in fact stand a chance against the 6th ranked server and the 5th ranked server. We are not trying to only ever match you up against your closest comparable server. That was what was happening with the system before and it was bad. If you are saying you don’t ever even want the chance to try and show your skill against a higher ranked server, then I don’t know what to say.

We will continue to look into ways to change scoring to try and even out some of the population based imbalances, but that is not an easy task and it won’t happen during the season.

There’s a difference here, showing your skill against a higher ranked server won’t really mean anything, because they will still win due to coverage. Being in JQ when we got matched against Mag/ DB / FA, those servers would kick our kitten most of the time in NA timezone, but they’d get discouraged anyway because we still be up 100k+ points by wednesday. I can’t imagine the blowout it will be if JQ gets matched against 11, 12th servers.
Not sure how closely you follow the NA scene, but there’s a HUGE coverage difference between the the top 3-4 servers to the rest, this would make the seasons really imbalanced. Having 4 leagues of 6 would diminish that, otherwise we would need some way to allow a population redistribution between the top 12 servers before Season 1 begins

So, coming from a server that floats around ranks 10 to 12, if we are in the first tier, we will have NO chance of facing anyone “worse” than us, because ranks 13 and below are impossible for us to fight? Just for clarification.

Secondly, why was it decided that groupings of 12 was better? It seems that groupings of 6, while still resulting in certain servers inevitably getting roflstomped, reduces the possibility of as much roflstomp. Tier 6 against tier 1 would still be laughable, but less laughable than tier 12 against tier 1.

However, as much as I’d hate to be floored by our lack of coverage 24/7, are rewards going to be based off of standing at the end of the 7 week matchup, or on the score evolution? (eg: over the course of 7 weeks, we’re +133.76 and some other server has a 7 week evolution of +24.04). That would definitely make things a bit more ‘fair,’ I’d think, because you are then competing against how well the system says you’ll do rather than competing against another server that can tick at +650 every night.

DevonCarver.5370:

bradderzh.2378:

We, the people of lower tiers, don’t mind testing our metal against tough odds. We do however mind it when the servers with the most players and best coverage gets the best rewards purely for the numbers reason only.

But as you said in another topic, wvw isn’t fair. All rank 12 has to do is throw enough matches to drop to rank 13 and get the best rewards.

So, as I’ve said before, we are still looking into ways to try and alleviate those problems, but that is also what WvW is like right now, so while this season will create new rewards and new incentives to play, it isn’t as though this is a brand new problem. We want to make it so that skill is more important than sheer numbers and we have some ideas. None of them are so easy/safe to implement that they are going to happen in the near-term.

It cracks me up that you keep talking about skill. Everything you have done since taking over has been to actively discourage skilled play in wvw and instead encourage zerging hordes.

This change is no different. What skill is there going to be in matchups that are determined 100% by population? Do you honestly believe the servers are ranked the way they are because of the skill of the players on them?

Epic fights indeed.

DevonCarver.5370:

bradderzh.2378:

We, the people of lower tiers, don’t mind testing our metal against tough odds. We do however mind it when the servers with the most players and best coverage gets the best rewards purely for the numbers reason only.

But as you said in another topic, wvw isn’t fair. All rank 12 has to do is throw enough matches to drop to rank 13 and get the best rewards.

So, as I’ve said before, we are still looking into ways to try and alleviate those problems, but that is also what WvW is like right now, so while this season will create new rewards and new incentives to play, it isn’t as though this is a brand new problem. We want to make it so that skill is more important than sheer numbers and we have some ideas. None of them are so easy/safe to implement that they are going to happen in the near-term.

Could I make a suggestion?
When the Sept 17th patch comes out:
1) Reduce map caps
2) Lock transfers to the top 4 servers
3) Allow free transfers for a week or 2
4) During that time, have shorter matches like we had on launch to rebalance stuff a bit.
5) Revert back to paid transfer system when season 1 starts

Luiz Swordbreaker.6547:

DevonCarver.5370:

skeet.1390:

So do 4 leagues in NA. This eliminates the enormous population difference from server 1 to server 12 and 13 to 24.

If you really think the server that is ranked 12th at the start of this stands any chance against the top servers you are delusional.

I never said they did. However, I’d argue that they do in fact stand a chance against the 6th ranked server and the 5th ranked server. We are not trying to only ever match you up against your closest comparable server. That was what was happening with the system before and it was bad. If you are saying you don’t ever even want the chance to try and show your skill against a higher ranked server, then I don’t know what to say.

We will continue to look into ways to change scoring to try and even out some of the population based imbalances, but that is not an easy task and it won’t happen during the season.

There’s a difference here, showing your skill against a higher ranked server won’t really mean anything, because they will still win due to coverage. Being in JQ when we got matched against Mag/ DB / FA, those servers would kick our kitten most of the time in NA timezone, but they’d get discouraged anyway because we still be up 100k+ points by wednesday. I can’t imagine the blowout it will be if JQ gets matched against 11, 12th servers.
Not sure how closely you follow the NA scene, but there’s a HUGE coverage difference between the the top 3-4 servers to the rest, this would make the seasons really imbalanced. Having 4 leagues of 6 would diminish that, otherwise we would need some way to allow a population redistribution between the top 12 servers before Season 1 begins

+1

DevonCarver.5370:

If you are saying you don’t ever even want the chance to try and show your skill against a higher ranked server, then I don’t know what to say..

Please be sure to transfer your game account to server rank 12 (who ever that may be) ready for their first battle with Jade quarry, Blackgate or Sanctum of Rall so you can experience the fun of fighting these servers with us lol

I’m sure we will even let you command and show us the strategies we need to win

it’s probably been discussed and rejected a hundred times but: buff NPCs scaling with population?

Jinks.2057:

DevonCarver.5370:

I’ve consistently said we are doing 2 leagues in NA and 3 in EU. The leagues will be broken up strictly by world rating at the conclusion of the matchup prior to the league start.

Its still fail.

In NA you will have the 12th ranked server vs T1 coverage.

WTF

3 leagues is way better module with championship week to close out

Check EU.. we are already playing rank 14 servers vs rank 3 and also 20 against 8..

DevonCarver.5370:

skeet.1390:

So do 4 leagues in NA. This eliminates the enormous population difference from server 1 to server 12 and 13 to 24.

If you really think the server that is ranked 12th at the start of this stands any chance against the top servers you are delusional.

We will continue to look into ways to change scoring to try and even out some of the population based imbalances, but that is not an easy task and it won’t happen during the season.

So can it be fixed BEFORE season? or do we have to play unbalanced for the entire first season?

DevonCarver.5370:

I never said they did. However, I’d argue that they do in fact stand a chance against the 6th ranked server and the 5th ranked server. We are not trying to only ever match you up against your closest comparable server.

What leads you to believe the current #12 would stand a chance against the current #6?

The last 3 meetings between YB and DB all ended in a minimum 100k win for DB, if my memory serves me correctly. YB’s organised population hasn’t increased since then.

A chance against the bigwigs could be fun; repeated trashings by servers many times more populous than your own tends to take the fun out of it after a while.

Lutto.8745:

Jinks.2057:

DevonCarver.5370:

I’ve consistently said we are doing 2 leagues in NA and 3 in EU. The leagues will be broken up strictly by world rating at the conclusion of the matchup prior to the league start.

Its still fail.

In NA you will have the 12th ranked server vs T1 coverage.

WTF

3 leagues is way better module with championship week to close out

Check EU.. we are already playing rank 14 servers vs rank 3 and also 20 against 8..

Ah but there is zero reward for winning WvW atm thus ultimately means kitten in the end.

This will reward server stacking/zerging. You will see major 2v1’s in the matchups as well……unfortunately it’ll be 2 stronger vs 1 weaker

DevonCarver.5370:

skeet.1390:

So do 4 leagues in NA. This eliminates the enormous population difference from server 1 to server 12 and 13 to 24.

If you really think the server that is ranked 12th at the start of this stands any chance against the top servers you are delusional.

I never said they did. However, I’d argue that they do in fact stand a chance against the 6th ranked server and the 5th ranked server. We are not trying to only ever match you up against your closest comparable server. That was what was happening with the system before and it was bad. If you are saying you don’t ever even want the chance to try and show your skill against a higher ranked server, then I don’t know what to say.

We will continue to look into ways to change scoring to try and even out some of the population based imbalances, but that is not an easy task and it won’t happen during the season.

No the 12 ranked server has absolutely zero chance against the 6th ranked server in NA.

Absolutely zero chance on winning….infact the last time Yaks Bend faced off against Dragonbrand they lost by over 200k

DevonCarver.5370:

bradderzh.2378:

We, the people of lower tiers, don’t mind testing our metal against tough odds. We do however mind it when the servers with the most players and best coverage gets the best rewards purely for the numbers reason only.

But as you said in another topic, wvw isn’t fair. All rank 12 has to do is throw enough matches to drop to rank 13 and get the best rewards.

So, as I’ve said before, we are still looking into ways to try and alleviate those problems, but that is also what WvW is like right now, so while this season will create new rewards and new incentives to play, it isn’t as though this is a brand new problem. We want to make it so that skill is more important than sheer numbers and we have some ideas. None of them are so easy/safe to implement that they are going to happen in the near-term.

There is are several ways to “safely” break up the zerg and increase the importance of skill. The zerg works because it can move just as fast and efficiently as smaller groups.

1) Remove all waypoints from keeps.

2) Completely redesign the maps. We need a map ( as a pure example) such as Fireheart Rise, or Lornar’s Pass to fight in. Lots of chokes, difficult to respond across the map to defend multiple objectives because of long winding paths ( especially with no waypoints). Multiple vertical levels of terrain so that a smaller force can get behind the lines, and it would be inefficient to respond to them as a blob as it will be very time consuming.

Aurust.8961:

DevonCarver.5370:

bradderzh.2378:

We, the people of lower tiers, don’t mind testing our metal against tough odds. We do however mind it when the servers with the most players and best coverage gets the best rewards purely for the numbers reason only.

But as you said in another topic, wvw isn’t fair. All rank 12 has to do is throw enough matches to drop to rank 13 and get the best rewards.

So, as I’ve said before, we are still looking into ways to try and alleviate those problems, but that is also what WvW is like right now, so while this season will create new rewards and new incentives to play, it isn’t as though this is a brand new problem. We want to make it so that skill is more important than sheer numbers and we have some ideas. None of them are so easy/safe to implement that they are going to happen in the near-term.

There is are several ways to “safely” break up the zerg and increase the importance of skill. The zerg works because it can move just as fast and efficiently as smaller groups.

1) Remove all waypoints from keeps.

2) Completely redesign the maps. We need a map ( as a pure example) such as Fireheart Rise, or Lornar’s Pass to fight in. Lots of chokes, difficult to respond across the map to defend multiple objectives because of long winding paths ( especially with no waypoints). Multiple vertical levels of terrain so that a smaller force can get behind the lines, and it would be inefficient to respond to them as a blob as it will be very time consuming.

I would just say for every person a blob downs 3 of their own just blow up.

Perfectly balanced.

DevonCarver.5370:

skeet.1390:

So do 4 leagues in NA. This eliminates the enormous population difference from server 1 to server 12 and 13 to 24.

If you really think the server that is ranked 12th at the start of this stands any chance against the top servers you are delusional.

I never said they did. However, I’d argue that they do in fact stand a chance against the 6th ranked server and the 5th ranked server. We are not trying to only ever match you up against your closest comparable server. That was what was happening with the system before and it was bad. If you are saying you don’t ever even want the chance to try and show your skill against a higher ranked server, then I don’t know what to say.

We will continue to look into ways to change scoring to try and even out some of the population based imbalances, but that is not an easy task and it won’t happen during the season.

Are you joking? 7 vs 9 is normally a slaughter. How can you expect 12 vs 6 not to be?

Uneducatedisnotaword15characterslong