Guild Wars 2

What needs to be done is mass invisibility removed from the game along with portals.
Then next the invisibility of thieves needs to be nerfed greatly to only use about 30% of the fight instead of 95%.
Hands down Anet has basically ruined the WvW in this game with the over use of invisibility to epic scales never dreamed of.

kelman.9451:

What needs to be done is mass invisibility removed from the game along with portals.
Then next the invisibility of thieves needs to be nerfed greatly to only use about 30% of the fight instead of 95%.
Hands down Anet has basically ruined the WvW in this game with the over use of invisibility to epic scales never dreamed of.

Stealth has made my thief the most laughably easy class I’ve ever played. Give anet plenty of feedback. However, removal isn’t the answer. However, we should not be able to pop back into stealth once in combat. No other game allows this…..for good reasons.

Actually Sanduskel, there are quite a few that allow restealthing in combat. However it’s usually 2 skills, each on very hefty cooldowns (30 seconds or more) that last for maybe 3-4 seconds.

RyuDragnier.9476:

Actually Sanduskel, there are quite a few that allow restealthing in combat. However it’s usually 2 skills, each on very hefty cooldowns (30 seconds or more) that last for maybe 3-4 seconds.

Those games also have hard counters to stealth, and if you attack from stealth you are reveals for a much longer period.

Sanduskel.1850:

RyuDragnier.9476:

Actually Sanduskel, there are quite a few that allow restealthing in combat. However it’s usually 2 skills, each on very hefty cooldowns (30 seconds or more) that last for maybe 3-4 seconds.

Those games also have hard counters to stealth, and if you attack from stealth you are reveals for a much longer period.

You haven’t played DAoC, where stealth that you couldn’t pop back into was the real problem. A player could be around indefinitely without breaking stealth until they came into combat, in which case hundreds of people would stay in a choke point, in stealth, just farming players trying to pass through. If you think thieves are bad in WvW, go try out DAoC and tell me where your god is.

Hopefully wildstar won’t have this broken mechanic when it is released. I understand thieves having this constant stealth because it is their main survival tool but mesmers don’t need it. Mesmers have plenty.

LightningBlaze.4913:

Hopefully wildstar won’t have this broken mechanic when it is released. I understand thieves having this constant stealth because it is their main survival tool but mesmers don’t need it. Mesmers have plenty.

From what i have seen the rogue/thief class in that game is currently INSANELY overpowered – Think Thief mixed with Warrior Damage and mobility. I saw a video where a Thief/Rogue burst down several characters and then jumped away Rush style before going stealth.

Viking Jorun.5413:

Sanduskel.1850:

RyuDragnier.9476:

Actually Sanduskel, there are quite a few that allow restealthing in combat. However it’s usually 2 skills, each on very hefty cooldowns (30 seconds or more) that last for maybe 3-4 seconds.

Those games also have hard counters to stealth, and if you attack from stealth you are reveals for a much longer period.

You haven’t played DAoC, where stealth that you couldn’t pop back into was the real problem. A player could be around indefinitely without breaking stealth until they came into combat, in which case hundreds of people would stay in a choke point, in stealth, just farming players trying to pass through. If you think thieves are bad in WvW, go try out DAoC and tell me where your god is.

Lol I played Daoc for 6 years, chum. Stealth could only be entered during combat on a very long cooldown skill and stealth had hard counters. I could see stealthers with my MOS. stealthers were much more difficult to play in that game. I played several of them.

Sanduskel.1850:

Viking Jorun.5413:

Sanduskel.1850:

RyuDragnier.9476:

Actually Sanduskel, there are quite a few that allow restealthing in combat. However it’s usually 2 skills, each on very hefty cooldowns (30 seconds or more) that last for maybe 3-4 seconds.

Those games also have hard counters to stealth, and if you attack from stealth you are reveals for a much longer period.

You haven’t played DAoC, where stealth that you couldn’t pop back into was the real problem. A player could be around indefinitely without breaking stealth until they came into combat, in which case hundreds of people would stay in a choke point, in stealth, just farming players trying to pass through. If you think thieves are bad in WvW, go try out DAoC and tell me where your god is.

Lol I played Daoc for 6 years, chum. Stealth could only be entered during combat on a very long cooldown skill and stealth had hard counters. I could see stealthers with my MOS. stealthers were much more difficult to play in that game. I played several of them.

Agree that Daoc’s version of stealth is vastly superior to Anets laughable version.

Forzani.2584:

Sanduskel.1850:

Viking Jorun.5413:

Sanduskel.1850:

RyuDragnier.9476:

Actually Sanduskel, there are quite a few that allow restealthing in combat. However it’s usually 2 skills, each on very hefty cooldowns (30 seconds or more) that last for maybe 3-4 seconds.

Those games also have hard counters to stealth, and if you attack from stealth you are reveals for a much longer period.

You haven’t played DAoC, where stealth that you couldn’t pop back into was the real problem. A player could be around indefinitely without breaking stealth until they came into combat, in which case hundreds of people would stay in a choke point, in stealth, just farming players trying to pass through. If you think thieves are bad in WvW, go try out DAoC and tell me where your god is.

Lol I played Daoc for 6 years, chum. Stealth could only be entered during combat on a very long cooldown skill and stealth had hard counters. I could see stealthers with my MOS. stealthers were much more difficult to play in that game. I played several of them.

Agree that Daoc’s version of stealth is vastly superior to Anets laughable version.

Indeed. I was a stealther, lol. Everyone had access to hard counters,only ever few minutes could assasins/infils/shadowblade enter stealth while in combat, and that cost an expensive realm ability. Once they attacked stealthers had to finish the fight or flee far enough away to restealth. no perma stealth while in combat nonsense.

Anet shot themselves on the foot when making Thief class. They designed all of Thief’s survivability in Shadow Arts and stealthing. Condi removal, ini regen, health regen, blinds, every useful survivability tactic is in this tree. Compared to Acrobatics which give a limited condi removal on a cooldown, pathetic healing that was basically nerfed when it was moved to a grandmaster trait, and now the vigor regen was nerfed. The recent vigor nerfs even made this issue worse and a lot of S/D Thieves who didn’t use stealth were forced to switch back or deal with a subpar build.

Until Anet gives Thieves more survivability outside stealth, Thieves will always stealth spam.

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

LightningBlaze.4913:

Hopefully wildstar won’t have this broken mechanic when it is released. I understand thieves having this constant stealth because it is their main survival tool but mesmers don’t need it. Mesmers have plenty.

From what i have seen the rogue/thief class in that game is currently INSANELY overpowered – Think Thief mixed with Warrior Damage and mobility. I saw a video where a Thief/Rogue burst down several characters and then jumped away Rush style before going stealth.

i wouldn’t mind the damage they deal as long as I can burst them down too. If there is no cd between stealth or a specific way to counter frequent stealth within that game too then I won’t even bother trying it.

Sanduskel.1850:

frans.8092:

Sanduskel.1850:

… we should not be able to pop back into stealth once in combat. No other game allows this…..for good reasons.

While ‘other game’ arguments have no value anyway, you are, as usual, quite mistaken on the ‘facts’. Other games do allow (re-) entering stealth from combat – and have for quite some time. Not that you’d care though.

Im sorry you had to resort to personal attacks, but no, most other games, and all decent pvp games dont allow restealthing while in combat unless there are easy hard counters to permastealth. So you are misinformed.

Interesting that you’d find personal attacks in there, that sounds almost as if any statement that opposes your opinion would be seen as a personal attack.

You were, and are, wrong, in many ways. First, other games are just that, other games. They balance their classes differently, rogues/assassins may have less stealth, but more defensive abilities, or passive evasion while in stealth, or perhaps they have even more access to stealth and defensive abilities, but do less damage. They might even not exist and lack or have any abilities, or penalties you care to bring into, or leave out of the discussion, how is anyone going to show otherwise? And if they do, you just wiggle like a politician and add some vague qualification like ‘decent’ in there somewhere.

You weren’t just wrong in bringing other games into the discussion, you were also wrong about the other games, you were wrong about permastealth in other games, you were wrong about entering stealth during combat, you are wrong about (hard) counters to stealth in GW.

So, yeah, you were wrong. Again.

And why, if you think GW has such a sub-par PvP, are you still here?

frans.8092:

Sanduskel.1850:

frans.8092:

Sanduskel.1850:

… we should not be able to pop back into stealth once in combat. No other game allows this…..for good reasons.

While ‘other game’ arguments have no value anyway, you are, as usual, quite mistaken on the ‘facts’. Other games do allow (re-) entering stealth from combat – and have for quite some time. Not that you’d care though.

Im sorry you had to resort to personal attacks, but no, most other games, and all decent pvp games dont allow restealthing while in combat unless there are easy hard counters to permastealth. So you are misinformed.

Interesting that you’d find personal attacks in there, that sounds almost as if any statement that opposes your opinion would be seen as a personal attack.

You were, and are, wrong, in many ways. First, other games are just that, other games. They balance their classes differently, rogues/assassins may have less stealth, but more defensive abilities, or passive evasion while in stealth, or perhaps they have even more access to stealth and defensive abilities, but do less damage. They might even not exist and lack or have any abilities, or penalties you care to bring into, or leave out of the discussion, how is anyone going to show otherwise? And if they do, you just wiggle like a politician and add some vague qualification like ‘decent’ in there somewhere.

You weren’t just wrong in bringing other games into the discussion, you were also wrong about the other games, you were wrong about permastealth in other games, you were wrong about entering stealth during combat, you are wrong about (hard) counters to stealth in GW.

So, yeah, you were wrong. Again.

And why, if you think GW has such a sub-par PvP, are you still here?

Most (notice how I typed most and not all?) mainstream games apply stealth differently than GW2. The stealth allows you to get the first hit in. You get to initiate the fight. After the initial hit, you are just like the enemy you are fighting ….visible. Usually a winner is decided. Daoc did have a ‘Vanish’ skill that was very expensive. Higher ranks were usually the only ones to purchase it.

You couldn’t stealth and restealth multiple times in a fight.
Your movement while stealthed was snail paced. Which kinda makes sense.
A hard counter is when someone can actually see you while stealthed. GW2 doesn’t have that.

Most(there is that word again) mainstream games apply stealth as listed above.

GW2’s version of stealth is laughable and nonsensical. I get that it is likely non fixable. I also get that people that play a Thief don’t want things fixed. Most have their myopic view and only want what’s best for them, not the game. They want to wtfpwn people and when they feel their class might get the nerf bat they fight like hell to make sure it doesn’t happen.

Forzani.2584:

Daoc did have a ‘Vanish’ skill that was very expensive. Higher ranks were usually the only ones to purchase it.

You couldn’t stealth and restealth multiple times in a fight.
Your movement while stealthed was snail paced. Which kinda makes sense.
A hard counter is when someone can actually see you while stealthed. GW2 doesn’t have that.

IMO Stealth in DAOC was far more horrible because you could stealth endlessly while out of combat. Many places in RVR were full of stealthers just sitting stealthed waiting for a victim. As soon as you crossed the area as a non-stealther a gazillion stealthers poped out from nowhere attacking you (and themselves afterwards).

Btw Vanish was available for 30 realm points, so you could achieve it with RR4 (pre new frontiers). That was a pretty low rank.

Yes, you could stealth endlessly. There was a hard counter though. If it got too bad then a group of people would bring along another stealther with the see all stealthers ability. He would pop every stealther there like wack a mole = easy RPs.

Yes, you could buy vanish that early. I don’t know of any that would though because there were far more useful things to buy. Also, it was on a long reuse timer (10 min?), and you couldn’t attack anything for a minute. You were defenseless if they found you because you couldn’t fight back. (what a concept…that you could be found even though you were stealthed)

That is nothing like GW2 restealthing….not even remotely similar. Kind of silly to compare it.

…and I will repeat what many say over and over. They don’t mind stealth. What they mind is the restealthing again and again during a fight, combined with no movement penalty when stealthed. = ridicoulous.

Forzani.2584:

That is nothing like GW2 restealthing….not even remotely similar. Kind of silly to compare it.

It was you who brought this up but never mind. =)

frans.8092:

Forzani.2584:

You are being obtuse and hanging your hat on semantics.

ob·tuse [uhb-toos, -tyoos] Show IPA
adjective
1.
not quick or alert in perception, feeling, or intellect; not sensitive or observant; dull.
2.
not sharp, acute, or pointed; blunt in form.
3.
(of a leaf, petal, etc.) rounded at the extremity.
4.
indistinctly felt or perceived, as pain or sound.

I find you post offensive and have reported it. If you care for open discussion I invite you to do so and restate your opinion in a more respectful manner. Thank you.

lol are you trying to be funny? Your earlier posts to Sanduskel (sp), were both offensive and a personal attack.

Maybe look up the term passive aggressive.

Thank you

Sanduskel.1850:

Cynz.9437:

then don’t make suggestions about nerf w/o adding suggestions how to make up for those nerfs

if you don’t have enough knowledge about class then you shouldn’t make suggestion on first pace

thief players are sick and tired on constant unreasonable nerfs over past months simply because people are too lazy and don’t even wanna learn how to play vs thieves

i personally had hard times against necro, i didn’t go on forums and asked for unreasonable nerfs for necros, i rolled one and learned how to counter them

you know what happend when ppl cried about stomps and stealth? dec 10th changes happend which completely deytroed s/d build reducing amount of viable builds..once again… i didn’t see any since patch because most of s/d thieves either play other spec now or simply rerolled… keep proposing changes like this and nobody will play thieves anymore

except it didn’t destroy those specs at all, and perma stealth is still very easy, lol. I’ve played s/d, it’s still very op’d.

I’m playing ele as a main, so don’t talk to me about destroying spec………, beside I don’t really get why you start bashing at me, claiming that I said that thief should be nerfed, since I never said that. I said thief should get less access to stealth and get other tools instead. And to be honest if you read this topic you will see most people either says massive stealth massively and don’t give anything back (people who do not play thief) or they say keep stealth like it is (seems allot of thief’s are afraid not being able anymore to have an infinity amount of combat resets). The reason I said less stealth is because, this makes combat reset impossible (thief is the only profession that can reset combat while staying close, yes…., there are a few other professions that can reset combat, but they have to increase the distance allot, which will give the opponent the choice to either chase or leave the combat. Beside of that I think chasing speed should be higher as fleeing speed if both players are in combat). And indeed lower the stealth with that much would be a big Nerf due to the current tools the thief does have, that is why I said give them other tools instead if there is need for, since it might be possible they are already there, not used by anyone due to the shear power of stealth at this point in the game, making those tool appear as underpowered while they might be competitive instead.

Forzani.2584:

Yes, you could stealth endlessly. There was a hard counter though. If it got too bad then a group of people would bring along another stealther with the see all stealthers ability. He would pop every stealther there like wack a mole = easy RPs.

Yes, you could buy vanish that early. I don’t know of any that would though because there were far more useful things to buy. Also, it was on a long reuse timer (10 min?), and you couldn’t attack anything for a minute. You were defenseless if they found you because you couldn’t fight back. (what a concept…that you could be found even though you were stealthed)

That is nothing like GW2 restealthing….not even remotely similar. Kind of silly to compare it.

…and I will repeat what many say over and over. They don’t mind stealth. What they mind is the restealthing again and again during a fight, combined with no movement penalty when stealthed. = ridicoulous.

Even with the ability to continously stealth thief is a sub-par compared compared to most classes. Not the best 1v1, not the best in small havoc squad and among the worst in zerg play.

Its even debatable to call the thief the best roamer because if you trying fight other professions for a camp or sentry point thief will lose and many other prof can disengage very well(best scout maybe?).

There many ways to deal with thiefs aoe condi, cc, direct dmg skills and channeling abilities. Any class built to duel can deal with thieves.

Also you do realize anet plays this game as well right? Based off what I have read they don’t really play thief so they have good insight of what a thief is capable of through the eyes of other professions. Maybe there is a reason the core elements of thief class (stealth included) have remained the same since launch.

Thief is no where near as strong players make them out to be, basically l2p.

Forzani.2584:

Yes, you could stealth endlessly. There was a hard counter though. If it got too bad then a group of people would bring along another stealther with the see all stealthers ability. He would pop every stealther there like wack a mole = easy RPs.

Yes, you could buy vanish that early. I don’t know of any that would though because there were far more useful things to buy. Also, it was on a long reuse timer (10 min?), and you couldn’t attack anything for a minute. You were defenseless if they found you because you couldn’t fight back. (what a concept…that you could be found even though you were stealthed)

That is nothing like GW2 restealthing….not even remotely similar. Kind of silly to compare it.

…and I will repeat what many say over and over. They don’t mind stealth. What they mind is the restealthing again and again during a fight, combined with no movement penalty when stealthed. = ridicoulous.

Even with the ability to continously stealth thief is a sub-par compared compared to most classes. Not the best 1v1, not the best in small havoc squad and among the worst in zerg play.

Its even debatable to call the thief the best roamer because if you trying fight other professions for a camp or sentry point thief will lose and many other prof can disengage very well(best scout maybe?).

There many ways to deal with thiefs aoe condi, cc, direct dmg skills and channeling abilities. Any class built to duel can deal with thieves.

Also you do realize anet plays this game as well right? Based off what I have read they don’t really play thief so they have good insight of what a thief is capable of through the eyes of other professions. Maybe there is a reason the core elements of thief class (stealth included) have remained the same since launch.

Thief is no where near as strong players make them out to be, basically l2p. Though I will say 1v1 a perma stealthing dp thief can be anying as hell but annoying doesn’t mean op.

frans.8092:

Sanduskel.1850:

frans.8092:

Sanduskel.1850:

… we should not be able to pop back into stealth once in combat. No other game allows this…..for good reasons.

While ‘other game’ arguments have no value anyway, you are, as usual, quite mistaken on the ‘facts’. Other games do allow (re-) entering stealth from combat – and have for quite some time. Not that you’d care though.

Im sorry you had to resort to personal attacks, but no, most other games, and all decent pvp games dont allow restealthing while in combat unless there are easy hard counters to permastealth. So you are misinformed.

Interesting that you’d find personal attacks in there, that sounds almost as if any statement that opposes your opinion would be seen as a personal attack.

You were, and are, wrong, in many ways. First, other games are just that, other games. They balance their classes differently, rogues/assassins may have less stealth, but more defensive abilities, or passive evasion while in stealth, or perhaps they have even more access to stealth and defensive abilities, but do less damage. They might even not exist and lack or have any abilities, or penalties you care to bring into, or leave out of the discussion, how is anyone going to show otherwise? And if they do, you just wiggle like a politician and add some vague qualification like ‘decent’ in there somewhere.

You weren’t just wrong in bringing other games into the discussion, you were also wrong about the other games, you were wrong about permastealth in other games, you were wrong about entering stealth during combat, you are wrong about (hard) counters to stealth in GW.

So, yeah, you were wrong. Again.

And why, if you think GW has such a sub-par PvP, are you still here?

Well, my experience is with daoc, Warhammer, Aion, TF2 and Wow. All had or have some combination of hard counters and/or very limited ability to enter stealth while in combat. This game has neither, hence the constant hatred for on demand perma stealth in this game. I find playing a stealth class much much easier here than in those other games.

Sanduskel.1850:

frans.8092:

Sanduskel.1850:

frans.8092:

Sanduskel.1850:

… we should not be able to pop back into stealth once in combat. No other game allows this…..for good reasons.

While ‘other game’ arguments have no value anyway, you are, as usual, quite mistaken on the ‘facts’. Other games do allow (re-) entering stealth from combat – and have for quite some time. Not that you’d care though.

Im sorry you had to resort to personal attacks, but no, most other games, and all decent pvp games dont allow restealthing while in combat unless there are easy hard counters to permastealth. So you are misinformed.

Interesting that you’d find personal attacks in there, that sounds almost as if any statement that opposes your opinion would be seen as a personal attack.

You were, and are, wrong, in many ways. First, other games are just that, other games. They balance their classes differently, rogues/assassins may have less stealth, but more defensive abilities, or passive evasion while in stealth, or perhaps they have even more access to stealth and defensive abilities, but do less damage. They might even not exist and lack or have any abilities, or penalties you care to bring into, or leave out of the discussion, how is anyone going to show otherwise? And if they do, you just wiggle like a politician and add some vague qualification like ‘decent’ in there somewhere.

You weren’t just wrong in bringing other games into the discussion, you were also wrong about the other games, you were wrong about permastealth in other games, you were wrong about entering stealth during combat, you are wrong about (hard) counters to stealth in GW.

So, yeah, you were wrong. Again.

And why, if you think GW has such a sub-par PvP, are you still here?

Well, my experience is with daoc, Warhammer, Aion, TF2 and Wow. All had or have some combination of hard counters and/or very limited ability to enter stealth while in combat. This game has neither, hence the constant hatred for on demand perma stealth in this game. I find playing a stealth class much much easier here than in those other games.

I completely agree with you Sanduskel in fact recently last week i had 17 guild players quit the game because of this. They stated how “cheap” thief class in and how this game is based on ‘playing hide and seek’ and favoritism. They laughed on the way out.

And i laughed too… why not? as i myself am much closer to the way out than ever

Yes, it is the same thief guild i belong in and it is rapidly falling apart. In fact within each months; 3-8 thief players walks away from this game due to same theatrics and nonsense etc…

It’s either Arena.net listen to their players and make thief class worth challenging, worth playing and fun or continue to witness more and more players quitting the game.

Alongside with their Favoritism, Superiority and Elitism mindset of having God classes in the game.

By the way, i’ve been playing a lot less with my zombie ranger; (seriously, who need a dead corpse following them around?) and spending more time with other lively worthily classes.

Aion…. The rouge class in Aion could re-eneter stealth while in combat. It was a rune or sigil, or what ever they were called, with an instant cast, a 90 second duration, and a 5 minute cool down. Problem was that other classes had similar (or longer) cool downs on their counters to stealth. Aion’s rouge class also was based off of stun locking down your opponent. The class also had passive evades, which was annoying when you knew a stun move was coming, used your shield knock down ability, and had it miss due to a random dice roll, then were stun locked to death.

And using Aion as an example of a balanced approach to stealth is just plain stupid. Aion’s rouges didn’t use stealth like GW2 does, their core mechanic was stuns.

Aion was never a balanced game, and one class was broken beyond all repair (spirit master) who could chain fear and dot entire zergs to death. (Ever seen a 30 man squad feared to where they are helpless) Bad example to site when the topic is counter stealth play and therefor class balancing..

You want thief to be like Aions, look up Fenders very old YouTube videos. A lvl 30 assassin(that was the class) solo roaming killing groups of lvl 50s with out breaking sweat.You may see a cleric name Littlejailbait here and there in the videos as well, which was me. So I know far more about Aions mechanics than appear to.

I wish I could play my thief like Aions assassin class. Or like EQ2 swashbucklers class, or even wows rouge class. They had tools to where stealth was not the core mechanics but only part of the flavor. And they had far more survivability. Most of their survivability was passive and requires no active skill to use.

God I wish I had a chance to evade one out of ever three attacks and had AOE immunity in stealth. You clearly do not know what you are talking about. At least not completely.

But I would expect no less for you. Sad but true.

Cite, and I never claimed Aion was perfect. Simply that it didn’t allow easy mode perma stealth AND that it had hard counters. Read what you wrote. 5 min cool down, not 1 sec, lol. Lets not cloud the issues.

Burnfall, I have faced rangers this week who made my thief seem week and feeble. You need to rebuild, or reroll. I have a man crush on a ranger on SF who is absolutely amazing. Kicked my kitten like I was a level one green arrow running around with any weapons equipped.

Yes, his build and skill were so amazing I enjoyed getting my kitten pushed in. It was amazing to watch, and better yet, he wiped my group a few times by him self and took a group of 5 players to bring down.

I have always felt some sympathy for you for I have never lost to a ranger, and in some ways could feel you pain. But that sympathy is gone, I have faced off against a Ranger who soaked up my 118% crit damage like it was a soft tap on the shoulder and hit me for numbers I don’t want to post in print. Learn you class man, I rolled a ranger just to understand and find a weakness in the build. Hopefully I won’t run a cross any more Rangers like that one, I would rather fight a group of PU mesmers, it would be a fairer fight for me.

Yes, Rangers can be that good, and if you tried maybe you could be too. Don’t give up on your class, it can be very powerful in the right hands. Much more powerful than any thief, expect sanddusklairs thieves of course. He is playing on god mode with permastalthed 50k backstabs and plays all 17 of his thieves alts at the same time.

Sanduskel.1850:

Cite, and I never claimed Aion was perfect. Simply that it didn’t allow easy mode perma stealth AND that it had hard counters. Read what you wrote. 5 min cool down, not 1 sec, lol. Lets not cloud the issues.

Aion’s assassin used stuns and passive evades as a class mechanic. Stealth was also part of the flavor, and they could stealth while in combat. Which is something you claimed they could not do. Try to stay on topic and not cloud the issue.

Thief does not have a cool down on stealth unless he hits someone. So one second is also misinformation. A thief in stealth is usually doing no damage, and is not doing any spike or burst damage. A thief doing burst or direct damage has a 3 second cool down on stealth called reveled.

Thief can chain stealth using cloak and dagger if they time it right and and cast cloak and dagger right as they come out of stealth, but they can only do this every 3 or 4 seconds depending on traits. If they miss time it, they leave stealth, or get reveled.

You post lies or misinformation daily. You lied in the reply I responded to, and so I corrected you. You are comparing apples to oranges. Other games do not use stealth like GW2 does. A fair majority of other games (and ones you referred too) used built passive evades you could not counter. And a fair majority of the games you listed, the rouge class used a stun locking mechanic to keep the player dazed an unable to act. These games you referred to also had in combat stealth, which was on a long cool down (and usually a long duration) but was used to gain the upper hand when you missed your rotation of the other player used one if his very limited stun breakers. So the rouge stealths, repositions, and continues to stun lock you to death.

This mechanic was far worse than GW2 stealth mechanic is now. You can hit a thief in stealth, you can use AOE on a stealthed thief, and you don’t get stun locked by thieves in this game.

To sum it up for you, don’t make claims about games you know nothing about,and don’t compare classes which did not use the same mechanic. Yes, they all could stealth, but that wasn’t their gimmick. It was not the core structure of the class. You are comparing apples to oranges.

Edit : Thank you for correcting my spelling error, very noble of you.

I always see posts like this and I can never tell if this is some kind of collective trolling or what. Surely you guys aren’t serious.

If you want utility skills that give the revealed debuff to thieves, fine. But I want something in return. Where’s my utility that stops mesmers from creating clones? Where’s my utility that disables all guardian virtues and prevents them from using boons? Where’s my utility that stops engineers from using kits and tool belt skills? Where’s my utility that locks a necromancer out of Death Shroud and/or prevents them from applying conditions?

You should think long and hard before you decide you want to go down the road of direct counters to primary class mechanics.

I dont think stealth in this game is overpowered. I play both thief and other professions without stealth. As a non-thief I have defeated many thieves in WvW while sometimes I get defeated. And its the same while playing my thief in WvW. So at the end it looks quite balanced to me.

The main problem is that its quite annoying to play against thieves in GW2. Although you have good chances to win / stay alive against most thieves it’s freaking annoying due to the high amount of in combat stealth. The same is true to PU mesmers imo.

But I wouldnt say that other games stealth mechanics are much better. Unlimited out of combat stealth is also extremely annoying because you never see them coming. At least in GW2 you see thieves coming (most of the time).

teg.1340:

I dont think stealth in this game is overpowered. I play both thief and other professions without stealth. As a non-thief I have defeated many thieves in WvW while sometimes I get defeated. And its the same while playing my thief in WvW. So at the end it looks quite balanced to me.

The main problem is that its quite annoying to play against thieves in GW2. Although you have good chances to win / stay alive against most thieves it’s freaking annoying due to the high amount of in combat stealth. The same is true to PU mesmers imo.

But I wouldnt say that other games stealth mechanics are much better. Unlimited out of combat stealth is also extremely annoying because you never see them coming. At least in GW2 you see thieves coming (most of the time).

Bingo. We have a winner. Overpowered, under powered or perfectly balanced. Those are entirely different issues and can be debated to death. One thing that is a fact is thieves ARE annoying to fight. Win or lose. It simply isn’t a fun game mechanic.

Take any facet of the game. If something isn’t fun and is kittening off the player base it is usually fixed. No company wants to lose it’s players over an annoying game play. Well, most don’t. Anet doesn’t seem to mind.

Im Not So Nice.2360:

Where’s my utility that stops mesmers from creating clones?

Here:
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Stealth#Utility_skills_that_grant_stealth

P.S. and the issue is that thief has still 3 defensive mechanics…that makes them immortal at least in www.
Evasions
Stealth
Mobility

Those makes impossible to kill any decent thief.

LordByron.8369:

P.S. and the issue is that thief has still 3 defensive mechanics…that makes them immortal at least in www.
Evasions
Stealth
Mobility

Those makes impossible to kill any decent thief.

You can not mix different builds, and much less when with the vigour nerf thief was heavily touched.
Many nerfs have been done to the thieves, with each nerf many theives have changed their main to other classes ( I know almost all the thieves of Baruch).
The point is that only the high-skilled thieves remain loyal to their first choice, and you probably base your views in those high skilled players.
Thief is not the best 1vs1 (and probably should be because it is the only individual dps class), nor in pvp neither in pve. In WvW is probably the best as roamer and ninja class, that´s all.
They can evade fights easily, that is their only real perk, and it is based in stealth.

Best,

Haltair, one of the Twelve Shadows

You bet i can…

1st thing thieves say is stealth is the only defensive mechanic…..

If you can choose 2 from 3 surviving mechanics that justs makes the point invalid…not even considering how some other professions have 1 or none.

you can build with evasion AND mobility….or with stealth and mobility

Being virtually immortal and the top burst is not a “perk”….

Cain.6507:

Sanduskel.1850:

Cite, and I never claimed Aion was perfect. Simply that it didn’t allow easy mode perma stealth AND that it had hard counters. Read what you wrote. 5 min cool down, not 1 sec, lol. Lets not cloud the issues.

Aion’s assassin used stuns and passive evades as a class mechanic. Stealth was also part of the flavor, and they could stealth while in combat. Which is something you claimed they could not do. Try to stay on topic and not cloud the issue.

Thief does not have a cool down on stealth unless he hits someone. So one second is also misinformation. A thief in stealth is usually doing no damage, and is not doing any spike or burst damage. A thief doing burst or direct damage has a 3 second cool down on stealth called reveled.

Thief can chain stealth using cloak and dagger if they time it right and and cast cloak and dagger right as they come out of stealth, but they can only do this every 3 or 4 seconds depending on traits. If they miss time it, they leave stealth, or get reveled.

You post lies or misinformation daily. You lied in the reply I responded to, and so I corrected you. You are comparing apples to oranges. Other games do not use stealth like GW2 does. A fair majority of other games (and ones you referred too) used built passive evades you could not counter. And a fair majority of the games you listed, the rouge class used a stun locking mechanic to keep the player dazed an unable to act. These games you referred to also had in combat stealth, which was on a long cool down (and usually a long duration) but was used to gain the upper hand when you missed your rotation of the other player used one if his very limited stun breakers. So the rouge stealths, repositions, and continues to stun lock you to death.

This mechanic was far worse than GW2 stealth mechanic is now. You can hit a thief in stealth, you can use AOE on a stealthed thief, and you don’t get stun locked by thieves in this game.

To sum it up for you, don’t make claims about games you know nothing about,and don’t compare classes which did not use the same mechanic. Yes, they all could stealth, but that wasn’t their gimmick. It was not the core structure of the class. You are comparing apples to oranges.

Don’t you have a few more thief alts to level? Seems your time could be better spent than making a fool of your self on the forums.

Edit : Thank you for correcting my spelling error, very noble of you.

So you agree that other games didn’t allow perma stealth without hard counters. We werent discussing other compensating mechanisms. I played Aion, and a stealther in aion. They werent nearly as opd as in this game.

read through this… well i read the first page… realized there were 6 more pages… realized i wasn’t on the thief page. wow

Never said I was op’d once. I and many other thieves are being truthful about how broken stealth is in this game. In Aion, several classes had skils that allow them, to see stealthed characters. They had cool downs. Rangers had two of them, I remember rangers and other assassins popping me from stealth,. I guess you missed that. I guess other games realized that perma stealth with no hard counters is a bad idea. Hmm

Stealthers in Aion weren’t nearly as powerful as you claim.

LordByron.8369:

1st thing thieves say is stealth is the only defensive mechanic…..

If you can choose 2 from 3 surviving mechanics that justs makes the point invalid…not even considering how some other professions have 1 or none.

you can build with evasion AND mobility….or with stealth and mobility

Being virtually immortal and the top burst is not a “perk”….

How useful is mobility, the ability to run away from a fight, for winning against your opponent? The answer would be: not useful at all. Sure, you may be able to survive some losing battles. But in combat it’s not helping you in any way whatsoever, only if you want to chicken out.

Does it really frustrate you that much that a thief is able to run away? I personally couldn’t care less, I know I’ve won. I’m not going to cry over that lootbag I just missed. I can continue on my own business and that thief isn’t going to do anything if he can be forced to run away easily.

So many people are hung up over the fact that thieves are slippery and able to disengage.

LordByron.8369:

Im Not So Nice.2360:

Where’s my utility that stops mesmers from creating clones?

Here:
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Stealth#Utility_skills_that_grant_stealth

P.S. and the issue is that thief has still 3 defensive mechanics…that makes them immortal at least in www.
Evasions
Stealth
Mobility

Those makes impossible to kill any decent thief.

You say thieves have 3 defensive mechanics as if that’s some sort of ridiculous number to possess.

You do realize other classes have access to those and more defensive mechanics as well, right? While having larger health pools in some cases.

Just for an example, look to warriors. They don’t have stealth. They just have almost every other defensive mechanic, including access to greater mobility than thieves (dependent on build obviously, but what isn’t) and every class access to evades (dodge rolling is a thing, and other classes can have perma-vigor, the thief cannot).

Your argument is innately flawed because it’s assuming that thieves are invincible because they possess the very same mechanics that other classes possess.

Wow surprised my thread is still going. So it looks like both thieves and non thieves have agreed. Needs to be less in combat stealth and more survivability options like evades blinds etc… This seems to be perfered over the hard counter of more reveal conditions.

Chuck Zitto.2367:

Wow surprised my thread is still going. So it looks like both thieves and non thieves have agreed. Needs to be less in combat stealth and more survivability options like evades blinds etc… This seems to be perfered over the hard counter of more reveal conditions.

Greetings Chuck,

After reading your post initially I decided to go out to wvw and see if I could experience first hand the complaints people have about stealth. Mind you I only do spvp most of the time, which doesn’t have a stealth problem due to the game being objective oriented.

The first thing I noticed while roaming is 90% of roamers were either thieves and mesmer, with the occasional running warrior. I wondered why no roaming eles, guardians, rangers? Probably because their mechanics do not allow them to constantly reset fights.

The thieves I ran into were either d/p or p/d. I was happy when I had a chance to fight thieves near spawn just to allow me to test different build variations and to see if there was some way to hard counter stealth.

I found that there is no possible way to counter it besides aoe and hoping you hit the spot they are stealthed in. Other than that in a skirmish with a thief you are at their whim for the entire fight.

What is ironic about the stealth mechanism is how Anet promoted combat. They removed casting bars because they wanted players to watch the screen for specific animations to play out, to which you would want to avoid. Problem is, when you face a invisible enemy this negates their entire agenda because you can not see the enemy. So any thing you might do while they are stealthed is out of instinct rather than intelligent.

This doesn’t not promote healthy game play, in fact the influx of roaming thieves is due to the fact that many of their mechanics have no hard counter available. Chill does not affect their initiative, there is only one hard counter to stealth in the game (sic em) and the evade mechanic has no counter.

While thief and to a extent mesmer will try to defend the stealth mechanic, what they have to understand is nearly every mechanic in game have counter play to them. Using guardian as a example, which is a boon centric class. There are boon strips that counter that feature. The same with unblockable skills. If they didn’t exist it would be much to easy for guardian to just pop all of their boons and faceroll targets.

Counter play is healthy and needed for the game. Anet needs to implement more hard stealth counters or at the least give stealth a negative aspect that causes the player to think if they want to utilize it or not.

Very few thieves dare admit how opd stealth is. I can admit it because I am not uber skilled at games like these, yet I find my thief laughbly easy in wvw versus other classes.

Stealth isn’t hard to deal with. Only people set on destroying thieves go on about how easy it is to play a thief and pwn using stealth.

Too many people with personal motives. Ignore those people.

yup lets ignore those who claim thief is perfectly balanced

all in all something has to give either stealth needs nerf or initiative has to go

stealth wouldnt be a problem if thieves dint downed even heavy armor bunkers under 5 seconds unable to be killed nor could spam it every 5 seconds

stealth needs a long revealed debuff and the ability to reveal when hitting Blocking players

make thieves actually use defensive trinkets or armor for once before they claim they are squishy and got no survivability

because Everyone could claim their class is squishy when all they wear is 100% berserker gear and trinkets

my engineer uses medium armor and is as squishy as thieves Give me my 90% uptime spammable stealth as well as cooldownless toolbelt skills nao please huehuehue

Sanduskel.1850:

Very few thieves dare admit how opd stealth is. I can admit it because I am not uber skilled at games like these, yet I find my thief laughbly easy in wvw versus other classes.

Hey there, I play a stealthless S/P thief. You may have seen me roaming around on GoM. I’ll be the first to admit how much of a crutch Stealth is, hence why I don’t use it and rather rely on dodges, positioning, and playing extremely aggressively against other thieves who seem to be the hard counter to anything that uses no stealth. I enjoy a good challenge, and 1v5’s are much more satisfying when I’m running no stealth than when I decide to run D/D or D/P and faceroll, which takes no individual skill. There are no breaks when running non-stealth, and while I can gain 3 seconds of stealth by swapping to shortbow and putting a blast finisher in my black powder, it’s only enough for a quick escape or repositioning with a 10 second CD on my melee set, in which case using shortbow in 1vX situations isn’t as lucrative as melee, and I’m forced to kite until weapon swap comes down. Needless to say, if I want stealth with my build, I have to work for it, and it has consequences. I believe every thief should have to make this choice.

CreativeAnarchy.6324:

Stealth is annoying and hard to deal with. Only people set on destroying every other class go on about how hard it is to play a thief and that using stealth isn’t that helpful.

Too many people with personal motives. Ignore those people.

I couldn’t agree more

Sanduskel.1850:

Very few thieves dare admit how opd stealth is. I can admit it because I am not uber skilled at games like these, yet I find my thief laughbly easy in wvw versus other classes.

Are you that baddie guardian on SoR who complains in WvW everyday when you lose to a thief? lol

Scizzor.8137:

Sanduskel.1850:

Very few thieves dare admit how opd stealth is. I can admit it because I am not uber skilled at games like these, yet I find my thief laughbly easy in wvw versus other classes.

Are you that baddie guardian on SoR who complains in WvW everyday when you lose to a thief? lol

^are you another of them who use: you must ve gotten killed by thief and are whining l2p noob reply for everything thief?

smart i ll admit make the other guys say something dumb so they get infracted and post gets trashed

Scizzor.8137:

Sanduskel.1850:

Very few thieves dare admit how opd stealth is. I can admit it because I am not uber skilled at games like these, yet I find my thief laughbly easy in wvw versus other classes.

Are you that baddie guardian on SoR who complains in WvW everyday when you lose to a thief? lol

No. I play thieves and other classes. My thief doesn’t lose to other thieves, lol

Sanduskel.1850:

Scizzor.8137:

Sanduskel.1850:

Very few thieves dare admit how opd stealth is. I can admit it because I am not uber skilled at games like these, yet I find my thief laughbly easy in wvw versus other classes.

Are you that baddie guardian on SoR who complains in WvW everyday when you lose to a thief? lol

No. I play thieves and other classes. My thief doesn’t lose to other thieves, lol

Please. Fight me. I’d like to record it for the thief forum if that’s okay too.

Sanduskel.1850:

Scizzor.8137:

Sanduskel.1850:

Very few thieves dare admit how opd stealth is. I can admit it because I am not uber skilled at games like these, yet I find my thief laughbly easy in wvw versus other classes.

Are you that baddie guardian on SoR who complains in WvW everyday when you lose to a thief? lol

No. I play thieves and other classes. My thief doesn’t lose to other thieves, lol

Judging by your post history, I can assume you normally use a generic stealth build and I gotta say, you are going to have a very hard time against my d/d conditions.

Let’s hope I remember to trait again so my ThiefvThief k/d doesn’t go lower than 22:1.