More ideas to improve wvw game mode

More ideas to improve wvw game mode

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Posted by: FogLeg.9354

FogLeg.9354

You can never have enough threads about improvements and different ideas. While most are never even read by developers and even less are ever considered as viable base for future updates, it is still fun to imagine how things could be improved.

I will separate different ideas into different posts, they are not selected in any way by importance and are not related to each other. I will try to explain why each change is needed, how it would improve the wvw gameplay and give little examples how they would work in my mind.

I am sure many have been suggested before as some are fairly obvious but I hope there are also some new and interesting points.

1. Replacing servers with guilds

2. Change war score calculation

3. Change to outnumbered

4. Changing WXP upgrades

5. Changing access to maps

6. Change to supply cost

(edited by FogLeg.9354)

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Posted by: FogLeg.9354

FogLeg.9354

1. Replacing servers with guilds

Reasons for change

Since the megaserver update year ago, it has becoming increasingly difficult to understand what exactly is the meaning of your server. Specially for new players coming from PvE, a server is weird and hairy ancient creature they never had to deal with so far. In PvE everything and everyone are same big happy server family. Sure, sometimes maps get overloaded and several instances of same map exist same time, but it is temporary and happens mostly on high population and above average prize drop situations (Silverwastes, World Champ Train Stations etc). Megaserver was great idea and I very much enjoy PvE now. I still remember running around outside of main towns in old server for days without ever bumping into other player. I remember looking to those mighty champions and wondering when and how I would see 10 people fighting same enemy same time. Totally better now.

Using servers to split up wvw population into fractions predates megaserver idea. Megaserver improved PvE hugely but for some weird reason wvw remained old fashion and broken. Since then wvw has been losing players and wvw servers have constantly suffered from lots of players swapping their original pretty much randomly picked server to “better” one. Top wvw servers now complain about constant lag and long map entry queues, same time bottom servers have been deserted, leaving only few players running around in those big empty maps. It is not specially fun and it is not very interesting.

Proposed change

Replace server with guild. Guilds have become almost meaningless in Guild Wars 2 (yes, it is still called “Guild” Wars). Sure most people join one and sure it can be group of friends doing stuff together, but honestly you can do most of these things solo or with random group or use LFG. In one of most baffling decisions, the megaserver update allowed guilds to spread into any number of servers. That is horrible idea killing much of the fun in wvw when players from same guild are suppose to “fight” against each other. They can even be in same team and still “fight” for opposite servers. Seriously?

Servers are dead end but guilds are hopefully not. So lets change the wvw from current “server vs server vs server” format into “guild vs guild vs guild”. Remove those mold-covered servers from game completely.

Improvement from change

In GvGvG mode guilds are very much in control over who joins the battlefield, they can and should organize when people play, how they play and how much everyone is suppose to contribute. Unlike servers where every player can join any server (if we exclude full servers), every player can leave server, every player can hop into wvw when they feel like and do whatever they want. All these griefers and idiots on your server doing things in wrong way, you can now kick them from guild and be happier!

Guilds have much better communication, specially outside of wvw it is near impossible to gather up those random people from your server when things heat up and more manpower is required. Guilds can do it, they do it now too. It means more coverage when action pops up and less time wasted sitting around and waiting someone else to join wvw.

Lets be honest, GvG is happening even now without the game ever officially supporting it. Guilds are big part of current server system too, they would just become even more important. Whoever has been in wvw for longer time, gets really bored from the point ticking system and all kind of player-defined subgames appear. Duels. Guilds actively avoiding any sort of siege and only looking for open field fighting. Playing tic-tac-toe with siege blueprints.

This system would avoid most of the problems with unbalanced population. Since it is up to every guild to get the members into wvw and they are always matched against similar guilds, there is only yourself to blame when your members are being lazy and do not come to defend your fully upgraded keep and choose to rather ride another mindblowingly boring champ train.

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Posted by: FogLeg.9354

FogLeg.9354

Step by step explanation of GvGvG mode

  • Main change with replacing servers with guilds is that we have limited number of servers but unlimited number of guilds. Meaning server vs server system has become stagnant facing same old enemy every week, while guild vs guild system would be much more dynamic.
  • No more silly scoring based on crazy uncle Glicko and his overcomplicated rating. Everything would be simpler. Much-much simpler.
  • Next week wvw signup process starts earlier, perhaps 1 week or 2-3 days before actual matches start.
  • Each week guild leader can sign the guild up into wvw tournament, all guild members who want to join wvw next week need to press button promising to join wvw too before signup time runs up.
  • Once player presses the button agreeing to join wvw next week, he can not undo it. He may not leave guild if he has already promised to join wvw. New members have to wait 1 week before they can join wvw.
  • All guilds must get minimum number of members signing up to wvw to be allowed into matches. Something reasonable to manage 1 map (1? not a mistake, just keep reading), lets say for example 50 members is enough.
  • There is also maximum number of members from each guild who can join wvw each week, something reasonably high to fill maps but small enough to avoid lag and map queues. It is up to guild and their members to agree who joins and what to do when more members would like to join but all slots are full already. This will ensure no megaguild can completely outnumber other guilds.
  • If not enough members want to join wvw, guild can not enter this week match.
  • Guild is not required to join wvw every week.
  • Members are not required to join wvw even when their guild joins wvw. But once the match starts they can not enter the wvw maps their guild is fighting for.
  • Total number of members in guild is irrelevant, only those members interested in actual wvw matter.
  • After signup time is over, guilds are matched based on number of members who wanted to join and their World Rank.
  • For example 10 players going to join wvw first time will provide 10 * 1 = 10 points and such guild would be matched against other guild nearby 10 points. However if those 10 new players are joined by 1 Platinum Legend, he will add his rank of 3945 points and guild is now matched against other guilds around 10+3945=3955 points.
  • Every week matching system simply starts by working down from total list of guilds who signed up. 3 top guilds with highest score go into 1 match. Next 3 guilds go into second match. And so on, down on the list. If only 1 or 2 guilds are finally left, they have to wait for next week match, and they also got together so few points they probably should try to get more members anyway. If 99 guilds signed up, 33 matches will happen that week. If 9 guilds signed up, only 3 matches are started.
  • The results of matching system are visible during signup time, so guilds can see beforehand who their potential opponents would be, each opponent has public reputation and there is a chance guild with bad reputation is not much fun to fight against. However the actual points are not shown. So guilds can pressure more members to sign up if current opponents looks bad but they do not know how many members and what world ranks are required to reach another opponents.
  • In general guilds with many new players end up against guilds with either same number of new players or guilds with less but more experienced players. Which is fair as new players have very hard time in wvw and going against high ranked players is usually suicidal.
  • Large guilds would of course manage easily fights on same maps servers currently do. But guilds with less members will get less maps.
  • For the lowest population guilds only 1 map, the Eternal Battlegrounds, is available, there will be no Borderland maps for anyone. Only 1 map makes sure players are more tightly packed into smaller space, meaning more fighting happens and everyone has more fun. Running around in empty maps is boring and should be avoided as much as possible.
  • Guilds with average number of members get to fight in 2 or 3 maps, the guild with lowest points from 3 always gets the map with Homeland Advantage.
  • So far I have no mentioned anything about scoring when the match ends. And for good reason, as I think it is not needed at all. If you just play to gather more points, I think you would enjoy more filling Excel tables. Once the match ends, each guild member who joined wvw during the week, needs to rate both opponents (1-10, 1 being freaking hackers I never want to meat again and 10 being amazing-fun-lets-do-it-again-tomorrow). How every player votes is secret. Your guilds reputation is public. In the end of season Guilds with best reputation get special titles and skins.

(edited by FogLeg.9354)

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Posted by: FogLeg.9354

FogLeg.9354

2. Change war score calculation

Reasons for change

Even most dedicated players rarely manage to play more then 4-6 hours per day. That means every day has 18-20 hours when you and me and everyone else are not playing and you and me and everyone else have no real way to improve score during those hours. Yes, the time you are NOT fighting for your server affects total score 3-4 times more then the time you actually DO the fighting. Everyone hates that. It is unfair and stupid. But, fear not, we can fix it! Just keep reading.

Currently off-hours are always most important contributing factor to the total match score. While main fighting takes place during limited time every day, and that is the most fun part of wvw we all enjoy so much, this adds little to the total score.

When no or very few opponents are active, whole fun-filled and candy-tasted world vs world mode is transformed into grey, dull and extremely boring PvE. There is no skill or challenge involved to take over undefended structure: you kill guards outside, you place siege, you run sups, you build siege, you take down wall or gate, you kill lord. Then you repeat it again. And again. Thousand and thousand times the exact same structures, same siege spots, same stupid and weak NPCs. It is boring and repetitive, you could as well go to work. You do not get any satisfaction from it and you hate every minute involved but you do it because you have to. For greater good, to improve that all-important server score.

It is even more terrible for low population servers in the last tiers where prime time means actual fighting happens in one single map and 3 other maps are still empty and undefended. Many servers ignore Borderland maps completely since there is nobody defending them and you only ever go there for the personal World XP. And to get little closer to that title requiring 40 billion towers captured. Or 50 years sitting in the dark room poking yourself in the eye, same thing basically.

Honestly playing in real PvE maps is much more interesting and rewarding because they are actually designed for PvE. There is something to do when you solo, something for smaller groups and more difficult enemies for larger groups. WvW maps quickly fall apart as soon you remove real living and breathing enemy from them. If you do enjoy PvE so much, you should do it in PvE maps.

It is also sad how current points counting system creates situation where defending structure is usually pointless and upgrading it is just waste of money. Big zergs run around taking towers and keeps and then leaving quickly to take even more towers and keeps while avoiding enemy zergs doing exactly same thing. I have seen zergs give up on capture just because one defender is inside. Yep, 1. Because it is not worth the time. Because finding next structure that is most likely completely undefended is more profitable to the server score and also provides more awardbags for everyone in the zerg. Capturing heavily defended keep after hours of hard work gives exactly same awards as taking undefended keep within 5 minutes, except you can capture 10 undefended keeps within hour and so would gain 10 times more points. So, uh, why bother?

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Posted by: FogLeg.9354

FogLeg.9354

Proposed change

Each structure gives points once and only once after it has belonged to your server for certain time. Once time is over, you gain the points. If enemy captures it before time runs out, timer is reset and your potential points are lost.

Time remaining until points get awarded is visible to all 3 servers. The map could for example use same swords icons with little timer nearby.

More valuable structures needs to be held for longer time to get those big fat points:

  • Sentries gives 1 point after held for 10 minutes.
  • Resource camps give no points, they are required for supplies anyway so doubling awards is pointless.
  • Towers give 10 points after held for 30 minutes.
  • Keeps give 25 points after held for 60 minutes
  • Stonemist Castle gives 35 points after held for 90 minutes

Because most fighting probably happens within time required to hold structures, upgrade times are greately reduced.

Improvements by change

This fairly simple scoring change reduces the amount of points currently awarded from capturing empty maps when nobody else but few hired players from other side of the world are awake. You can still capture enemy keep when most players are at sleep but enemy can organise a counter-attack so you may end up with 0 points. Even if no enemy shows up, you still get the points only once and not once every 15 minutes. With for example 12 hours constantly ticking, means about 50 times less points. That will have huge impact on total score for each server.

Holding the structure after capture will be even more important meaning you most likely want and have to defend it against enemy forces. Meaning you most likely want and have to upgrade it as soon as possible. If you leave it undefended, you may not only ever get the points but you also open it up to enemy recapture and if they hold it successfully, you have only managed to give more points to opponent.

Requirement to hold structure for certain time after capture means both opponents are alerted about your potential score and both opponents should be very interested to block your attempt. It means everyone wants to gather up into same area and fight. It means fun! Zergs running in circles avoiding other zergs end up with zero points and become obsolete.

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Posted by: Ark Bladesteele.2943

Ark Bladesteele.2943

I would never support changing WvW to GvG, and the reason Guild Wars is named that is because of the ancient Guild Wars that predated GW1; it has nothing to do with ingame guilds fighting each other. Pure and simple, I like the massive scale of WvW and it is easily the best RvR system to come around since DAoC. It should be no surprise that one of the primary architects of WvW came from DAoC.

WvW definitely has its problems, but changing the entire game mode to be guild-only is not a solution.

NSP’s resident crazy-eyed sylvari

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Posted by: Dawdler.8521

Dawdler.8521

Your “Guild vs Guild” change put way too many limitations on WvW. Its going to be complicated and unfun. This is a game, not a job.

That said, server vs server is outdated. What I would like to see is “factions”, ie Anet created mega-guilds instead of servers. Pretty much the same setup as now, but with ingame Anet guilds that players/player guilds are part of. Just like you choose a server, you choose a faction. If we can get a little more open-ness about them ingame (like, how many members and which guilds are in a faction), players can start to balance wvw themselves. Cheapen the costs to move between factions, make it more fluid and changing.

Right now, we’re putting all our trust in Anet to balance things because if you think about it, we cant even see the true population of a server. And they arent really doing it.

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Posted by: FogLeg.9354

FogLeg.9354

3. Change to outnumbered

Reasons for change

I honestly believe most players want to have fair and balanced fights where skills matter and better commanding tactics are key to victory. I also believe wvw without enemy players is boring and pointless. Playing for server which pretty much has permanent Outnumbered buff, these are the stats that are suppose to make up for facing several times more enemies on the map:

  • +20% Magic find
  • +33% Experience
  • +10% World Experience
  • Take no Armor damage on death

It is one of the most pointless buffs in the game. Because the buff appears when you are probably in trouble already or will be very soon, nothing gained from the buff helps you fight better or defend structures for longer time. It acts mostly as sign saying “GET THE HELL OUT OF HERE! NOW!” and as many players would obviously react to it in that exact way, more players from your side will leave the map meaning enemies will outnumber you even more and it all goes downhill even faster.

It is not fun to fight enemies who simply run over you, it is also not fun to fight enemies who die before you even notice the fight has started. Unbalance is bad for both sides and makes game unfun. As it stands now, outnumbered buff is basically blaming server with less people online about not having enough people online. That is rarely something people who ARE on the current wvw map, can change. Even if you have more people from your server on other maps or guildies doing whatever PvE things they do, they are usually busy and not just yawning around lazily waiting for action.

Proposed change

Instead of assigning outnumbered buff to server with less players, make it affect server which is hugely outnumbering others. For one important reason – if your server has too many players on the map, and you know this will make fighting boring for all parties, you can leave the map and by leaving you are bringing balance to the map. Unlike outnumbered players leaving and making everything worse, extra players leaving from outnumberer server will improve game.

So, everyone from server with too many players compared to other 2 servers, will get automatic “not-enough-enemies-for-fun” buff. NEEFF for short. While you have this buff, it will have following effects:

  • you get no xp on this map, no normal xp or world xp.
  • no loot drops.
  • your server gains no points from this map once the next 15 minutes tick up, other 2 servers still get whatever they are holding, but points for your server are reduced to 0. This reduction is not visible to other servers, they still think you are being awarded full points.

The buff first appears as blinking warning sign, it remains in warning state for 1 minute. If populations are balanced during that warning state, either because enough people from outnumberer server leave the map or enough enemies appear, buff disappears. However, if server is still outnumbering others once time is up, buff remains permanently until next tick of points in 15 minute interval.

Improvements by change

This will hopefully have impact on how often hugely unbalanced fights happen. Nothing actually forces players from outnumbering server react to the buff, they can still stay on the map and run around madly taking empty structures. They just don’t gain anything from it. Players do not gain any xp and do not get any loot so they have no real reason to do it unless they simply enjoy beating up weaker opponents or fighting NPCs. Many would change map to find another where enemies forces are more common. Some would log off the wvw and try again later when more enemies are playing too.

As the servers who are being outnumbered, they do not know it. When you do not know you are weak and probably will lose fights, you will continue to fight normally, doing everything you can.

One problem this change does not fix, is one server having much lower potential wvw population compared to other 2 servers. Assuming NEEFF appears once your server has more people on the map then other 2 servers combined, 2 bigger and better populated servers can still crush 3rd with much less available players without NEEFF buff ever being assigned. Even with this minor problem the change would be big improvement over current situation.

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Posted by: Shadow.3475

Shadow.3475

No to GvGvG, yes to change Point gain system but i prefer that you only get Point when you take Buildings that are defended and/or upgraded, and that you gain Point for defending Buildings, defenders get max no matter what upgraded it have if enough player attack, attackers get max when its full upgraded and full defended by players.

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Posted by: McWolfy.5924

McWolfy.5924

The game should dish out guilds to servers depend on a warscore at every reset.
But i think guilds should not register, players should select a guild what they follow to the “random” server.
No more stucked servers, same enemys every week…

WSR→Piken→Deso→Piken→FSP→Deso
Just the WvW
R3200+

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Posted by: Baldrick.8967

Baldrick.8967

I’m sorry to be the one to burst your bubble, but it’s not gonna happen.

We’re getting a new map with the expansion later in the year. That’s it for wvw for another 3 years unless they decide to appoint a dedicated wvw team and decide it’s where they want to pump resources into- but that is exceedingly unlikely as they prefer their spvp ‘esport’. I tried to listen to one of the matches once and the commentators sounded like they were on speed which totally ruined it.

WvW player. Doing another world completion for my next Legendary. Hater of mini-games.

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Posted by: FogLeg.9354

FogLeg.9354

4. Changing WXP upgrades

Reasons for change

Passive bonuses are boring, forgettable and make you lazy. Current system where you spend increasingly large amounts of World Ability Points on various upgrade tracks to gain all sort of passive bonuses is great for first week or two when you rank up quickly and you can manage to get those little upgrades fairly fast. After that you rank up slower and you need more and more points every time so it all stops being relevant. You probably have no idea what sort of bonuses you even have as you upgraded them so long ago and then forgot about they even exist.

It also makes pretty tough ground for new players entering wvw maps. They are not able to compete with all the mithril knights who have been running there for years and are all buffed up in every area with various passive bonuses. Not only are new players less experinced about what to do, when to do and how to do it, but whatever they do has much less effect. There is no real reason why high ranked player should take less damage, shoot further or take down walls within 10 seconds. High ranked players are better in all those things anyway because they have done it all many times before. This is one of the reasons new players tend to avoid wvw and very few return after being 1-shotted and told to leave that siege alone by fellow players.

Proposed change

Remove World Ability Points gained from ranking up.

Replace permanent passive bonuses with timed bonuses. You can spend X number of Badges of Honor to gain any upgrade for 24 hours. The upgrades only have 1 tier meaning you either have it active or not. Number of upgrades you can use same time is not limited as long you have enough Badges of Honor to buy them. They each wear off after 24 hours.

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Posted by: FogLeg.9354

FogLeg.9354

List of upgrades

Lets suppose every upgrade costs 100 Badges of Honor. Exact number may be somewhat different, just remember you need to spend them again every day so it probably is low enough so you can earn badges for few but probably never have enough badges for all of them.

  • Guard Killer – 10% (total) damage to guards, lords and supervisors
  • Defense Against Guards – 10% reduced damage (total) against guards, lords, and supervisors
  • Mercenary’s Bane – 5% (total) increase to damage and defense against mercenaries
  • Siege Bunker – 5% (total) increased siege defense
  • Siege Might – 5% (total) increased siege damage
  • Supply Capacity – Increases supply capacity by 5 (total)
  • Cannon Mastery – Increases cannon damage, Increases all blast radii, Increases chill and bleed duration
  • Ballista Mastery – Increases ballista damage, Increases ballista range
  • Arrow Cart Mastery – Increases range on all arrow cart skills, Increases damage on all arrow cart skills, Increases effectiveness of applied conditions, Increases radius on all arrow cart skills
  • Burning Oil Mastery – Increases Burning Oil radius, Increases Burning Oil damage, While using the oil, reduces the damage received by the oil pot and the player
  • Mortar Mastery – Increase blast radius on all mortar skills, Reduce the recharge of all mortar skills, Increase damage on all mortar skills
  • Build Mastery – Spend 6 supply at a time when building siege
  • Repair Mastery – Spend 6 supply at a time when repairing
  • Catapult Mastery – Increases damage done to walls, Increases radius of all catapult skills, Skill: Siege Bubble
  • Supply Master – Pick up supply faster, Gain swiftness after spending all of your supply, Have a chance to recover spent supply when spending supply
  • Trebuchet Mastery – Increases the damage on trebuchet skills, Cow ammo now drains supply from enemy players, Increases the radius of trebuchet skills, Basic shots that hit enemy supply depots will destroy some of the objective’s supply
  • Flame Ram Mastery – Gain Iron Hide while interacting with the flame ram, Flame Blast now applies Structural Vulnerability to gates, Reduce recharge of flame ram skills
  • Siege Golem Mastery – Increases your piloted golem’s base power, vitality, toughness and precision.

Improvements by change

First, of course, this change would make wvw mode more interesting. Different players will probably want to buy different upgrades, for example when guild raid is started, you may want some people with supply-build-capacity upgrades who will run into camps and build siege. You probably also want someone with mastery for rams or catas with siege upgrades. If you expect lots of defending, you probably want to invest in those cannon-mortar-oil upgrades. Roamers will likely invest in upgrades about guards and mercenaries.

But, more importantly, nobody wants to spend badges on all of the upgrades as that would be waste. So, nobody is going to be super-strong-one-man-army. Also, even players from lower ranks are equally skilled as long they buy upgrade, and getting one of them is easy enough for everyone. But next day everything may change and upgrades you want to buy may be totally different. Some days you just run around without any of the upgrades, saving up badges. As you have to predict which upgrade would be most useful every day, it is little bit of gamble, some days you end up just not gaining anything from upgrades you bought.

For example when laying down siege, there is no more point covering every empty spot with arrow carts when your group does not have many upgraded arrow cart masteries. You still can, obviously, and even players without the active upgrade are able to do some damage, they just aint very good at it. Or for example losing that single group member with active Flame Ram upgrade could mean end to your raid.

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Posted by: Ark Bladesteele.2943

Ark Bladesteele.2943

First, of course, this change would make wvw mode more interesting.

I have yet to see any definitive proof from you that this would be true. If anything, it would make it more tedious, and not everyone goes out and farms badges for hours in EotM. “More crap to micro-manage” does not necessarily mean “more interesting.”

NSP’s resident crazy-eyed sylvari

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Posted by: Hexin.5603

Hexin.5603

I can’t see the NEEFF buff being welcomed. I mean … move map to be competative? You get nothing for any contribution? Especially considering the point tick for some are as long as 90 minutes …. it basically favors dead servers. Completely.

Sorry trying to wrap my head around the idea here … so what would happen if a server outnumbered another 2 servers … get 0 wxp/xp/rewards but caps the map? Do they get 0 points? or the points for the cap? Or is that 15 minutes negate a cap of smc?

Willing to pay for boxed expansion if you put legit GvG in the box $$

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Posted by: FogLeg.9354

FogLeg.9354

5. Changing access to maps

Reasons for change

Lets face it, many times maps in wvw have none or very few players. You spend so much time running from one objective to other that everyone needs to add speed boost to their build. Yep, instead of boost to fighting, a boost to cover long distances between fights, is required. Big map with large empty areas between enemy forces makes possible for opposing forces move around long periods of times without ever actually engaging in the real thing – the fights.

As there is always some other undefended objective to be captured in other corner of other map, players start to avoid battles unless they hugely outnumber opposing force. Oh, no, this tower has arrow cart and it is being used by enemy! Lets run for our lives! Into next map where are no more horrible arrow carts, and none of those terrifying monsters called enemy players! All 50 in our zerg, to the waypoint!

When players have choice of either spending lots of time and skill to fight their way through equal enemy force into final lord, perhaps even ending up dead and losing the fight, or simply running away into other structure with no enemy and take it within few minutes, very few actually bother with the fight. I know some who actually enjoy fighting and would skip the undefended structure if they can find one with enemies. Those players are minority and they tend to do badly pointwise, since points tick based on number of structures you hold, not based on how much effort it took to capture and hold those structures.

Proposed change

Only 1 map, Eternal Battlegrounds, is available at the start with 1 single waypoint which is only entry point for all players from your server. If you die anywhere on wvw, this is the only spot you can re-enter from.

Now other maps are still available and 3 gates exist around Stonemist Castle but they are all closed by default. To gain access to them, you need to hold 2 keeps same time for certain amount of time, for example 10 minutes. Once one server has been holding 2 keeps for that time, Asura gate is opened to 1 borderland map. Gate remains open for 30 minutes or until the server holds same 2 keeps in Eternal Battlegrounds. You can now enter the gate and go do things in available borderland map. But so can enemies, gate is open for everyone.

If another server captures 2 keeps in Eternal Battlegrounds, gate to another borderland map becomes available. In case keeps are being recaptured quickly, it is even possible for 2 gates to be active same time. If one side holds all 3 keeps in the Eternal Battlegrounds, all 3 gates are open and all 4 maps are accessible.

Once gate closes, 10 minutes shutdown timer starts in that borderland map, while no more players may enter the map, players already there have 10 minutes to finish up. Once timer runs out, capture situation in that borderland is frozen, you can no longer capture or lose structures and enemy guards become invulnerable. Players remaining on the map may stay there and may do other stuff, like gather resources or look for vistas or hunt wild animals.

Warscore points are only calculated from the Eternal Battlegrounds map and Borderland maps with active gates. If gate to specific borderland map is closed, nobody gains any points from there.

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Posted by: FogLeg.9354

FogLeg.9354

Improvements by change

Obviously packing players into smaller space means you must fight more. No longer can you run away into empty map whenever enemy shows up. Also capturing keeps becomes hugely important, you most certainly want to build up defences and make sure no enemy can take your keep. But same time simply sitting in your keep forever with billion sieges gains you little since 2 remaining enemies could take remaining keeps and open access to borderland bypassing your heavily defended keep completely.

Once 2 keeps are captured and held by 1 server, it needs to consider how to spread up the forces. There is now at least 5 important spots to defend and fight for:

  • as usual the Stonemist Castle that should be defended or captured
  • both the keeps, one of those near enemy waypoint and almost certainly under attack by other server
  • active asura gate which can be used by enemy to access the opened map
  • and the now accessible map itself where structures must be either captured or defended if enemy enters the map too.

Remember, you only gain points from Bordeland map until gate remains open, you want to go in and capture structures there quickly but same time you must make sure gate remains open and no enemy can go through it. This means if 1 server is hugely outnumbering other servers, and captures much of Eternal Battlegrounds, it must split up to gain more points from borderland maps, making Eternal Battlegrounds more balanced area. In the borderland map it is probably bad idea to run around in huge 100 man zerg, taking only few structures one by one while most of the zerg does nothing at all. Splitting into smaller groups with each their own target is smarter but it means smaller enemy groups sneaking in are able to fight those split groups off without being constantly overrun by much bigger enemy. Because most borderland maps are not available during off-hours with few players around, current total dominance of off-hours in score calculation is reduced.

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Posted by: briggah.7910

briggah.7910

  • If not enough members want to join wvw, guild can not enter this week match.

So my casual guild with over 400 members with a handful of wvw’ers would never be able to play wvw for the entire week because not enough of my guild signed up??

LOL worst idea ever.. Delete this thread

Player Vs Everyone
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Posted by: bloodletting wolf.2837

bloodletting wolf.2837

I hate the forums after they have a game sale.

Kaa Mchorror NSP grenadier [hayt]

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Posted by: FogLeg.9354

FogLeg.9354

6. Change to supply cost

Result of most of siege battles is based on amount of supply both armies are able to spend. Assuming one side is stronger and already controlling most of the map, it becomes increasingly difficult for weaker server to defend remaining structures. If you are outnumbered and pushed back into last keep, you rarely have enough manpower to even recapture neighbouring camps that provide much needed dollies and even with camps under your control your players are probably busy fighting and do not have time to run away into camp for more supplies.

Same time, army with more people is already controlling most of the map with all the nice full supply camps, they can always run into defenders, build some siege, fight a little, kill off some siege defenders managed to build and lose some they built, and then pull back for re-supplies. With much larger force you can afford to send players away to bring in more and more supplies.

It is always desirable to have all 3 servers control more or less same amount of each map so they all gain about same amount of points and match remains interesting.

Proposed change

Change the cost of each siege you are building, based on number of towers and keeps you control on current map. If you currently control 3 or less structures, siege costs remains whatever it is now (40 sups for basic ram). Every tower, keep or castle above 3 adds cost of 10 sups to each siege you place. To capture that last tower in your borderland, while already having taken all 3 keeps and 3 towers means every siege cost is increased by 60 (basic ram has cost of 100 now).

Improvements by change

This change would make sure that capturing full map becomes increasingly difficult even with much larger army. It means all servers can manage better the amount of supplies they have access to, more supplies available means you also need to spend more. It does not prevent capturing full maps, just makes it slower and more costly meaning other sides can defend better.