Guild Wars 2

1) guardian – best AoE support/sustain (group stability, protection, empowers, heals, AoE condition removal), forms the backbone of any solid group

2) warrior – best offensive support, FGJ gives AoE 3 stacks of might and fury, warhorn bug removes conditions from up to 10 people rather then 5, best CC in game with hammer. Also has access to best group revive (warbanner). Also best faceroll class in game, easily can be called most passive play-style class with auto stability, healing signet, etc.

3) elementalist – best backline class in general, meteor shower -> tornado massive = AoE crits, easy access to waterfields, great CC: static field and unsteady ground

(I say better then necro because cantrips give ele’s much more sustain and more room for error, also better mobility)

4) necromancer – in zergs the most common build seems to be power wells, great for holding chokes as well as AoE boon removal and blinds

5) mesmer – every guild group carries atleast 1-2 of these, mainly for veils, time warps, and nullfield. Mesmers lack in group support and DPS

6) thief – with venom share being buffed recently thieves have gotten more useful for offensive support but it’s still situational and since other classes can provide better support without having to give up as much traits/utility-wise I put thiefs as number 6. Thieves are also prone to CC as they are a class that has almost 0 stability.

7) engineer – light CC and grenades is about all they’ve got, conditions spamming a hammer-train is pointless since it gets cleared almost instantly. Engineers are prone to CC as they are a class that has almost 0 stability.

8) rangers – pet’s die in a heartbeat to AoE, rangers do no DPS and lack group support abilities

I’m looking forward to the responses, I feel my list is pretty accurate but let me know if you disagree lol! :P

MrFluffy.9307:

8) rangers – pet’s die in a heartbeat to AoE, rangers do no DPS and lack group support abilities

- pets shot from outside the zerg with singel target cc and aoe poison field, when low life swap while staying outside the zerg and let your other pet continue the work till next swap
- ranger do OK dps when playing a hybrid specc
- perma swiftness, perma fury, perma might, perma regeneration, nearly perma vigour ( and selft nearly perma protection ) + strongest waterfield in game with condition remove
- ae soft cc skills
- most access to evade in game to avoid the pain train

every class can contribute to the zerg if played and specced right. dont understimate the ranger.

Coarr.3286:

MrFluffy.9307:

8) rangers – pet’s die in a heartbeat to AoE, rangers do no DPS and lack group support abilities

- pets shot from outside the zerg with singel target cc and aoe poison field, when low life swap while staying outside the zerg and let your other pet continue the work till next swap
- ranger do OK dps when playing a hybrid specc
- perma swiftness, perma fury, perma might, perma regeneration, nearly perma vigour ( and selft nearly perma protection ) + strongest waterfield in game with condition remove
- ae soft cc skills
- most access to evade in game to avoid the pain train

every class can contribute to the zerg if played and specced right. dont understimate the ranger.

The fact that you think the ranger isn’t the most useless WvW class is… adorable.

the topic is “most useless class in wvw”, not most “useless class in zerg fights”. fluffy just named the negative part for ranger class, not its outstanding strenghts. in my oppinion ranger is in a very very good spot ( if not armed with bows ). in my guild group, when i ask “who should i bring? my warrior, guardian or ranger?” the answer is always ranger.

Is there any use for such a list?
Should the #3-8 on your list stay out of Wvw so you can enjoy the Outnumbered buff?

MrFluffy.9307:

3) elementalist – best backline class in general, meteor shower -> tornado massive = AoE crits, easy access to waterfields, great CC: static field and unsteady ground

(I say better then necro because cantrips give ele’s much more sustain and more room for error, also better mobility)

necro aoe lasts longer and are more effective than the 1trick pony ele is currently.

5) mesmer – every guild group carries atleast 1-2 of these, mainly for veils, time warps, and nullfield. Mesmers lack in group support and DPS

incredibly OP in 1vsX

6) thief – with venom share being buffed recently thieves have gotten more useful for offensive support but it’s still situational and since other classes can provide better support without having to give up as much traits/utility-wise I put thiefs as number 6. Thieves are also prone to CC as they are a class that has almost 0 stability.

Shouldn t they kill backlines?
If eles are powerful, thieves are useful….

Also undiscussed best scout profession not to mention being OP as hell at roaming (see immortal).

All classes are as just as useful as each other.

Some zerg better than others while the others are better roamers or scouts than the zergers.

But my list:

Zerg -
1: Guardian
2: Warrior
3: Ele
4: Mesmer
5: Engie
6: Necro
7: Ranger
8: Thief

Roaming solo – Camp flipping, slapping yaks and scouting.
1: Thief
2: Mesmer
3: GS warrior
4: Ranger
5: Engie
6: Guardian
7: Necro
8: Ele
(mobility seems to decide the top 3 of this list)

party of 5 roaming
1: Mesmer
2: Guardian
3: Ele
4: Ranger
5: Necro
6: Engie
7: Warrior
8: Thief
(My choices due to how useful those classes are for the type of roaming my guild does, but we also tend to troll the 5 mesmers sometimes)

these are just from what I have seen and my own personal opinion

sephiroth.4217:

Roaming solo – Camp flipping, slapping yaks and scouting.

(mobility seems to decide the top 3 of this list)

Mobility and fight disengage capabilities….
In general I agree with your lists.

Best,

Haltair, one of the Twelve Shadows

“7) engineer – light CC and grenades is about all they’ve got, conditions spamming a hammer-train is pointless since it gets cleared almost instantly. Engineers are prone to CC as they are a class that has almost 0 stability.”

While this is true, I think the Engi and therefor also the necro gets better the longer the fights last. Not all zerg vs zerg are over in 20 seconds. In longer lasting fights no cleansing can keep up with all the condis applied by these two classes. Also both are very well to apply lots and lots of pressure on the backline.

sephiroth.4217:

All classes are as just as useful as each other.

Some zerg better than others while the others are better roamers or scouts than the zergers.

But my list:

Zerg -
1: Guardian
2: Warrior
3: Ele
4: Mesmer
5: Engie
6: Necro
7: Ranger
8: Thief

Roaming solo – Camp flipping, slapping yaks and scouting.
1: Thief
2: Mesmer
3: GS warrior
4: Ranger
5: Engie
6: Guardian
7: Necro
8: Ele
(mobility seems to decide the top 3 of this list)

party of 5 roaming
1: Mesmer
2: Guardian
3: Ele
4: Ranger
5: Necro
6: Engie
7: Warrior
8: Thief
(My choices due to how useful those classes are for the type of roaming my guild does, but we also tend to troll the 5 mesmers sometimes)

these are just from what I have seen and my own personal opinion

and yet all we ever see is nerf thief threads

i demand every other class be nerfed because they do better than me in what wvw is actually meant for. /rollseyes

Zerg -
1: Guardian
2: Warrior
3: Ele
4: Mesmer
5: Ranger (all spirit build kinda works for zerg support, also brings effectively 7 pet petting zoo to absorb AoE, Rangers petting zoo has considerably more hps then Necro’s, bear 40,000+hps AoE condition removal)
6: Necro
7: Thief
8: Engineer

Roaming solo – Camp flipping, slapping yaks and scouting.
1: Thief Master of Stealth
Pointless other classes applying really.

party of 5 roaming
Any combo.

Lololololol a ranger more useful then a nerco in a zerg hahahaha spirits are useless in a zerg that’s like say MM nerco is good for anything but PvD xD

CAPT wheat roll.5743:

Lololololol a ranger more useful then a nerco in a zerg hahahaha spirits are useless in a zerg that’s like say MM nerco is good for anything but PvD xD

I know its weird but 1 of those spirits gives a 10% damage bonus, thus negating the 10% crit nerf. Also with the Ranger count as 7 targets for enemy AoE and remember AoE has a 5 target limit. The combined hps of all the spirits/pets/Ranger is 200,000+ health, so massive damage sponge. Also the healing from the 2 healing spirits, my god the healing, its makes warrior healing signet look utterly pathetic…

No doubt spirits are good but if the other zerg is 25+ they die instantly end of story after that your a sponge that offers 0 group support and there are class that do that better /guardian

also mesmer better than necro…

Necro is just better than ele….after wars and guards.

they possibly deals the most dps in zerg fights.

MrFluffy.9307:

1) guardian – best AoE support/sustain (group stability, protection, empowers, heals, AoE condition removal), forms the backbone of any solid group

2) warrior – best offensive support, FGJ gives AoE 3 stacks of might and fury, warhorn bug removes conditions from up to 10 people rather then 5, best CC in game with hammer. Also has access to best group revive (warbanner). Also best faceroll class in game, easily can be called most passive play-style class with auto stability, healing signet, etc.

3) elementalist – best backline class in general, meteor shower -> tornado massive = AoE crits, easy access to waterfields, great CC: static field and unsteady ground

(I say better then necro because cantrips give ele’s much more sustain and more room for error, also better mobility)

4) necromancer – in zergs the most common build seems to be power wells, great for holding chokes as well as AoE boon removal and blinds

5) mesmer – every guild group carries atleast 1-2 of these, mainly for veils, time warps, and nullfield. Mesmers lack in group support and DPS

6) thief – with venom share being buffed recently thieves have gotten more useful for offensive support but it’s still situational and since other classes can provide better support without having to give up as much traits/utility-wise I put thiefs as number 6. Thieves are also prone to CC as they are a class that has almost 0 stability.

7) engineer – light CC and grenades is about all they’ve got, conditions spamming a hammer-train is pointless since it gets cleared almost instantly. Engineers are prone to CC as they are a class that has almost 0 stability.

8) rangers – pet’s die in a heartbeat to AoE, rangers do no DPS and lack group support abilities

I’m looking forward to the responses, I feel my list is pretty accurate but let me know if you disagree lol! :P

That is the order of importance we look for when we assemble with our guild. Those defending Necro over Ele need to remember that giving your frontline water fields to blast will keep your group alive and ready to push again. That is the only reason Necro is below the Ele. As for rangers being last, I feel sorry for all you ranger folk out their but it is true. Your profession is less that useless in group fights, stick to solo roaming.

I am surprised no one, not even for just a laugh has organised a 30 strong zerg of pure Necro Minion Mancers.

Ie… 30 Necro’s with 6 minions each, so that would be a 180 strong minion army.

Could face off with 30 Rangers and there 150 spirits + 30 pets (and a another 30 to swap too)

It would probably make a amusing, funny youtube video.

Necro Army!

Could you imagine your zerg coming across a enemy zerg like that in WvW, it would be like WTF?!?

Meglobob.8620:

I am surprised no one, not even for just a laugh has organised a 30 strong zerg of pure Necro Minion Mancers.

Ie… 30 Necro’s with 6 minions each, so that would be a 180 strong minion army.

Could face off with 30 Rangers and there 150 spirits + 30 pets (and a another 30 to swap too)

It would probably make a amusing, funny youtube video.

Necro Army!

Could you imagine your zerg coming across a enemy zerg like that in WvW, it would be like WTF?!?

It was done on JQ. The necro minions were melted and then we watched in horror as the class with no escapes tried to run away only to be quickly caught and killed.

If you blinked you would have missed it.

KeeZee.7312:

Meglobob.8620:

I am surprised no one, not even for just a laugh has organised a 30 strong zerg of pure Necro Minion Mancers.

Ie… 30 Necro’s with 6 minions each, so that would be a 180 strong minion army.

Could face off with 30 Rangers and there 150 spirits + 30 pets (and a another 30 to swap too)

It would probably make a amusing, funny youtube video.

Necro Army!

Could you imagine your zerg coming across a enemy zerg like that in WvW, it would be like WTF?!?

It was done on JQ. The necro minions were melted and then we watched in horror as the class with no escapes tried to run away only to be quickly caught and killed.

If you blinked you would have missed it.

Did you make a vid?

So we can all have a laugh?

How about a best “tag for bags” ranking?

My server’s minionmancer train: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BMApRwhh1kE

Anyway, it’s tough to compare different professions across all of the different things they can do. Maybe your professions can be considered as useful as their single greatest use. Or, you could try to look at their overall contribution, though if your profession has one extremely good use, then the rest don’t matter if you just use the useful strategy. So perhaps looking at the professions with the single best PPT build in the game is one way of looking at it.

For example, thief is #6 or so on OP’s list but it actually in my mind has the #1 PPT build in the game. Running p/d d/p carrion armor and using p/d for yak killing in ebg and d/p for stealth will do your server well. Killing yaks gives 3 points which is kinda OP since killing both the supply camp yaks gives 1 more point than an actual supply camp and can be done something like 2.5 times per tick. Not only will running this thief build force the enemy team to start escorting yaks but you can still kill an escorted yak many times unless they put 5+ people escorting it. When you have the enemy server bringing back their zerg for you or spend tons of players escorting a yak, you have already won, even if you don’t kill yaks because of it. That’s because you are just one person and you are cancelling out many other players from doing other things.

Warrior may have the #2 PPT build in the game because it has a zerker build that can kill everything in a supply camp in as fast as 7 seconds from first hit to last and it happens to also use the fastest moving build in the game (GS + S/WH, sig of rage, bulls charge, 20% GS recharge trait, though S/WH is swapped out for LB right before the supply camp solo is started). It can flip up to 6 supply camps in 10 minutes solo as a result.

CAPT wheat roll.5743:

No doubt spirits are good but if the other zerg is 25+ they die instantly end of story after that your a sponge that offers 0 group support and there are class that do that better /guardian

Spirits dieing instantly is a typical L2P issue. When using spirits, there is but ONE thing to keep in mind at all time; Position, Position, Position, Position, Position, Position, Position, Position, Position, Position, Position, Position, Position, Position, Position, Position, Position, Position, Position, Position, Position, Position, Position, Position

By position i mean: your placement, relative to the direction of the enemy hammer train, and your placement relative to heavy AOE. In 70% of cases, moving 20 steps to either side of the dense enemy frontline is enough to make the spirits last.

If you want to put warrior healing signet to shame; 750HPS regen ranger. Downside to that build;you only keep your allies alive, you wont harm a fly with the DPS you put out, so go for CC spam (immobilize) cleansing and regen spam. End result is, your team lives, the other doesnt.

Different classes are good at different things

Rangers aren’t the best at everything and lacks DPS if they want to zerg, but their condition stacking and immobilizes are amazing.

Meglobob.8620:

KeeZee.7312:

Meglobob.8620:

I am surprised no one, not even for just a laugh has organised a 30 strong zerg of pure Necro Minion Mancers.

Ie… 30 Necro’s with 6 minions each, so that would be a 180 strong minion army.

Could face off with 30 Rangers and there 150 spirits + 30 pets (and a another 30 to swap too)

It would probably make a amusing, funny youtube video.

Necro Army!

Could you imagine your zerg coming across a enemy zerg like that in WvW, it would be like WTF?!?

It was done on JQ. The necro minions were melted and then we watched in horror as the class with no escapes tried to run away only to be quickly caught and killed.

If you blinked you would have missed it.

Did you make a vid?

So we can all have a laugh?

Someone in guild may have caught it while fraps was going but it was over so quick it was easy to miss.

We never saw them again.

Meglobob.8620:

I am surprised no one, not even for just a laugh has organised a 30 strong zerg of pure Necro Minion Mancers.

Ie… 30 Necro’s with 6 minions each, so that would be a 180 strong minion army.

Could face off with 30 Rangers and there 150 spirits + 30 pets (and a another 30 to swap too)

It would probably make a amusing, funny youtube video.

Necro Army!

We did it in Baruch this last Saturday, pictures and videos here:

http://www.guildwars2-online.com/foro/topic/9606-necromancer-day-sabado-dia-18-de-enero-del-2014-a-las-1545-de-la-tarde/

enjoy.

best,

Haltair, one of the Twelve Shadows

pulupulu.9730:

How about a best “tag for bags” ranking?

In context of zerg v zerg,

Anything with durability and AoE…top of the list, staff ‘1/2/3’ spamming Guardians with Wall of Reflection and Purging Flames. (Also don’t forget Empower and Line of Warding for utility.) And that’s why you see them everywhere.

Second on list, Necro with Staff/Well build with Plague Elite.

Third on list (and not far behind Necro) Staff Eles now that they have been buffed. Also, has the ability to swap to Scepter MH for the occasional AoE Dragon Tooth remove siege/hit players behind walls and requires no line of sight bonus/no obstructed error messages.

Fourth is a tie amongst the rest, Warrior with Hammer/Longbow (both have seen significant nerfs recently but remains popular). Mesmer with GS /Staff /or Focus with reflection trait but the Warden is bugged right now (Mesmer would be #1 or #2 except for the almost year-old Confusion bomb nerf). Ranger is decent with armor piercing arrows and drake pet or spider spitting but pets are AI dumb. Engineer is pretty good with Grenade/Bomb spec but makes for sore fingers and boring ‘use it now’ rotation. Thief is good mainly because of Shortbow ‘1’ bounce and Dagger Storm Elite but doesn’t have durability at the level of #1 and #2 so it feels very backline support like.

TL;DR a couple of stars and the rest are about equal

sephiroth.4217:

All classes are as just as useful as each other.

Some zerg better than others while the others are better roamers or scouts than the zergers.

But my list:

Zerg -
1: Guardian
2: Warrior
3: Ele
4: Mesmer
5: Engie
6: Necro
7: Ranger
8: Thief

Roaming solo – Camp flipping, slapping yaks and scouting.
1: Thief
2: Mesmer
3: GS warrior
4: Ranger
5: Engie
6: Guardian
7: Necro
8: Ele
(mobility seems to decide the top 3 of this list)

party of 5 roaming
1: Mesmer
2: Guardian
3: Ele
4: Ranger
5: Necro
6: Engie
7: Warrior
8: Thief
(My choices due to how useful those classes are for the type of roaming my guild does, but we also tend to troll the 5 mesmers sometimes)

these are just from what I have seen and my own personal opinion

Zerg:
Mostly agree with your list. Only changes are that I would put Necro as #4 for a zerg. The top 3 are certain: guardian for boons, warriors for CC, eles for water fields/ static fields. The necro comes next is has great for AOE damage.

Roaming:
Thief and mesmer are by far the best. I’d say condi stealth mesmers are even better than thieves in the current meta plus are the best 1v1 class.

Party of 5:
This is the hardest to rank. I think pretty much any class can work in the right team comp.

Listed from Most to Least imo :

• Warrior – Been leveling one recently, this class is the king. It can do it all, from roaming, to havoc, to zerging, no class is better hands down at the moment. It’s almost a requirement to have one at this point in the game.

• Guardian – My original main, guardians have gone through a few ups and downs since release, but for the most part have stayed a strong contender. Best Support hands down, most healing and boon application, not so hot at roaming unless you specifically build for it and then you still won’t win all the time.

• Necro – Wells wells and more wells

• Elementalist – Good support, great for groups and pretty good at roaming even after the nerfs.

• Mesmer – Veils and Time Warp, One of the best roamers if played correctly

• Thief – Doesn’t bring much to a group, but the best roamer by far and wide. Any time you get in trouble you can just disappear. You never lose, just live to fight another day. Venom Share isn’t bad, but thieves still lack in the group game imo.

• Engineer – Situationally useful. Pretty good for keep defense. Doesn’t really excel in any area.

• Rangers – The forgotten class, low dps, useless pets, minimal group support. Decent at roaming when played by a skilled player.

ITT: Rangers trying to convince people they aren’t useless in a zerg

Radian.2478:

My server’s minionmancer train: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BMApRwhh1kE

Haltair.3062:

We did it in Baruch this last Saturday, pictures and videos here:

http://www.guildwars2-online.com/foro/topic/9606-necromancer-day-sabado-dia-18-de-enero-del-2014-a-las-1545-de-la-tarde/

enjoy.

best,

Haltair, one of the Twelve Shadows

Cheers for those…

The server I am on doesn’t do ‘silly stuff’ like that…in fact I think I am the only one who occasionally runs mad builds but there you go…

Zerg
1) Guardian : Defensive Support
2) Warrior : Offensive Support
3) Elementalist : Backline DPS, Combos Field
4) Necro : AoE, Boons Removal, Blind
5) Mesmer : Specific Support Skill, a small number are a force multiplier to your zerg, but any additional Mesmer are not really useful.
6-8) Engineer, Thief, Rangers : They don’t bring something specific to the zerg. Everybody is welcome, but i don’t think that any guild group with specific build and profession would bring any of those.

Roamer
1-2) Thief and Mesmer
3-8) All other profession do the job, but…

Special Mention
Engineer : Best versatile profession in WvW. For someone that want to do a bit of everything in WvW and only have 1 character to chose, then Engineer is the best choice. You won’t be the best at anything but with 1 build you can do pretty much everything.
Necromancer : I don’t really know much about the Necro. Usually they don’t give much trouble, but some player with this profession I just can’t do anything against. They are playing with me like a little doll.
Guardian : Using hammer next to a cliff or bridge is OP. Its only situational, but a launch of 750 distance on a 20sec cooldown (if traited) can give you some really fun time.

Prysin.8542:

CAPT wheat roll.5743:

No doubt spirits are good but if the other zerg is 25+ they die instantly end of story after that your a sponge that offers 0 group support and there are class that do that better /guardian

Spirits dieing instantly is a typical L2P issue. When using spirits, there is but ONE thing to keep in mind at all time; Position, Position, Position, Position, Position, Position, Position, Position, Position, Position, Position, Position, Position, Position, Position, Position, Position, Position, Position, Position, Position, Position, Position, Position

By position i mean: your placement, relative to the direction of the enemy hammer train, and your placement relative to heavy AOE. In 70% of cases, moving 20 steps to either side of the dense enemy frontline is enough to make the spirits last.

If you want to put warrior healing signet to shame; 750HPS regen ranger. Downside to that build;you only keep your allies alive, you wont harm a fly with the DPS you put out, so go for CC spam (immobilize) cleansing and regen spam. End result is, your team lives, the other doesnt.

Unfortunately, 99.9% of the ranger population in WvW seems to suffer from these personal L2P issues. Also, out of the 99.9%, about 20-25% of them are self deluded and come here to the forums making claims that they are the good ones that do not suffer from these issues, while in fact they do.

About 1 and a half months ago, I transferred from a ranger heavy to a ranger light-to-nonexistant server. WHAT A HUGE DIFFERENCE IN OVERALL QUALITY OF GAMEPLAY. I stayed on my old server for the community, the guild I was in, the friends I made, but I just couldn’t take it anymore, and now I keep banging my head why I haven’t done this sooner.

You can theorycraft all you want to your hearts content, but when you change servers like I have and experience this for yourself, the difference becomes plainly amazing and just not arguable no matter what spins you try to put on it.

I do not deny rangers groups, but its because of sympathy for the player I know behind the toon or just because I feel sorry for them, not because of what they bring to the gameplay.

There is nothing in WvW that another class can’t do better than a ranger. Not saying that rangers can’t be good (saw a Gold General ranger this weekend from TC).

The class that I think is most useful in WvW is actually the necromancer. Not because they are the most effective (they are not) but because they can perform any role well. They are good for zergs, GvGs, havoc, and roaming.

As for order of importance if you are running a a group
Warriors and Guardians
Elementalists and necros
1-2 mesmers for groups greater than 15
Everything else.

Spirit rangers are bad in zergs because the spirits take away stability, water fields, condi cleanses and stuff away from other players. The buffs they offer in exchange aren’t as useful or timely.

Four basic styles of play IMO: Zerg, Skill Group, Skirmish, Roaming. These can be broken further down into GvG, dueling, etc but no sense in drilling down that far. For these purposes the main classes IMO are:

Zerg: Guardian (boons/healing), Warrior (control), Necro (stability killer). Only thing needed for a quality hammer train and there is no question as to the durability of these classes. Other classes are caught in the open too frequently and are often rally bots.

Skill Group: Guardian, Warrior, Ele, Necro. Eles work best in skill groups.

Skirmish: Party makeup is more important than individual class. Everything except a Ranger works well here.

Roaming: Thief, Mesmer and to a lessor extent a speed Warrior or bunker engi. Escape and burst are the primaries of a Roaming class IMO.

Mesmers should be rated higher than Necro’s because of there utility:-

Portal, how many golem rushes can you have without portal? Also, how many keeps/sm’s has a Mesmer gained you by portaling an entire zerg over the wall?

Plus Time Warp, a few timed Time Warps half the time it takes to melt any door. Plus a well placed time warp in combat sure helps, 5 of your side with quickness for 10 secs.

Also you have the 1200 AoE stealth, invisible zerg surprises other zerg, result win.

Feedback is awesome, oh look at all those bow, staff, rifle, grenade dudes killing themselves.

A zerg can live without a Necro because they don’t bring anything special to the party. Well Mesmers certainly do.

Meglobob.8620:

Mesmers should be rated higher than Necro’s because of there utility:-

Portal, how many golem rushes can you have without portal? Also, how many keeps/sm’s has a Mesmer gained you by portaling an entire zerg over the wall?

Plus Time Warp, a few timed Time Warps half the time it takes to melt any door. Plus a well placed time warp in combat sure helps, 5 of your side with quickness for 10 secs.

Also you have the 1200 AoE stealth, invisible zerg surprises other zerg, result win.

Feedback is awesome, oh look at all those bow, staff, rifle, grenade dudes killing themselves.

A zerg can live without a Necro because they don’t bring anything special to the party. Well Mesmers certainly do.

I agree and disagree. Yes 2-3 mesmers are more important to a zerg than 2-3 necros, but 2-3 mesmers is usually all you ever need, whereas I can ALWAYS use more necros.

You only need 2 mesmers for a group. Their utility and effectiveness does not stack after that.
You increase necros however, their effectiveness does stack.

If I could custom put together a perfect group for non-blob combat:

10 warriors, 6 Guardians.
4 necros, 4 eles
2 mesmers

That’s the perfect zerg right there. Enough power roll larger groups but no gaps.

MrFluffy.9307:

1) guardian – best AoE support/sustain (group stability, protection, empowers, heals, AoE condition removal), forms the backbone of any solid group

2) warrior – best offensive support, FGJ gives AoE 3 stacks of might and fury, warhorn bug removes conditions from up to 10 people rather then 5, best CC in game with hammer. Also has access to best group revive (warbanner). Also best faceroll class in game, easily can be called most passive play-style class with auto stability, healing signet, etc.

3) elementalist – best backline class in general, meteor shower -> tornado massive = AoE crits, easy access to waterfields, great CC: static field and unsteady ground

(I say better then necro because cantrips give ele’s much more sustain and more room for error, also better mobility)

4) necromancer – in zergs the most common build seems to be power wells, great for holding chokes as well as AoE boon removal and blinds

5) mesmer – every guild group carries atleast 1-2 of these, mainly for veils, time warps, and nullfield. Mesmers lack in group support and DPS

6) thief – with venom share being buffed recently thieves have gotten more useful for offensive support but it’s still situational and since other classes can provide better support without having to give up as much traits/utility-wise I put thiefs as number 6. Thieves are also prone to CC as they are a class that has almost 0 stability.

7) engineer – light CC and grenades is about all they’ve got, conditions spamming a hammer-train is pointless since it gets cleared almost instantly. Engineers are prone to CC as they are a class that has almost 0 stability.

8) rangers – pet’s die in a heartbeat to AoE, rangers do no DPS and lack group support abilities

I’m looking forward to the responses, I feel my list is pretty accurate but let me know if you disagree lol! :P

Your list was accurate right up until Rangers. They actually do a lot more dps than other classes, both sustained and burst. People just have a tendency to not build them properly.

After Anet removes Crit damage and replaces it with Ferocity.. you may then be very well be accurate in that statement lol.

style.6173:

sephiroth.4217:

All classes are as just as useful as each other.

Some zerg better than others while the others are better roamers or scouts than the zergers.

But my list:

Zerg -
1: Guardian
2: Warrior
3: Ele
4: Mesmer
5: Engie
6: Necro
7: Ranger
8: Thief

Roaming solo – Camp flipping, slapping yaks and scouting.
1: Thief
2: Mesmer
3: GS warrior
4: Ranger
5: Engie
6: Guardian
7: Necro
8: Ele
(mobility seems to decide the top 3 of this list)

party of 5 roaming
1: Mesmer
2: Guardian
3: Ele
4: Ranger
5: Necro
6: Engie
7: Warrior
8: Thief
(My choices due to how useful those classes are for the type of roaming my guild does, but we also tend to troll the 5 mesmers sometimes)

these are just from what I have seen and my own personal opinion

Zerg:
Mostly agree with your list. Only changes are that I would put Necro as #4 for a zerg. The top 3 are certain: guardian for boons, warriors for CC, eles for water fields/ static fields. The necro comes next is has great for AOE damage.

Roaming:
Thief and mesmer are by far the best. I’d say condi stealth mesmers are even better than thieves in the current meta plus are the best 1v1 class.

Party of 5:
This is the hardest to rank. I think pretty much any class can work in the right team comp.

I only put necro so low cause conditions are horrid in zerg fights and I don’t see many necros running a power build unless they are in an organised guild group… Mesmer got #4 but again thats my opinion cause every pug with a mesmer over uses veil which is handy most times, without that veil mesmer would be sooooooooooooooooo much lower in rankings aha

Meglobob.8620:

Mesmers should be rated higher than Necro’s because of there utility:-

Portal, how many golem rushes can you have without portal? Also, how many keeps/sm’s has a Mesmer gained you by portaling an entire zerg over the wall?

Plus Time Warp, a few timed Time Warps half the time it takes to melt any door. Plus a well placed time warp in combat sure helps, 5 of your side with quickness for 10 secs.

Also you have the 1200 AoE stealth, invisible zerg surprises other zerg, result win.

Feedback is awesome, oh look at all those bow, staff, rifle, grenade dudes killing themselves.

A zerg can live without a Necro because they don’t bring anything special to the party. Well Mesmers certainly do.

absolutely not. then go play a mesmer in a zerg and enjoy the veilbot! necro can deal massive aoe dmg, corrupt boons, convert condis into boons, etc.
mesmer can veil….(deals no dmg even with confusion trit dmg is a joke), high cd
portal, again no dmg,limited,high cd
tw, pshhh happens only every 210seconds and again deals no dmg

feedback used to be good, but completely useless agains heavy armors or anything that doesnt have a projectile which is nowadays almost everyone

nullfield: sry but well of corruption right there!much better

the mesmer is right with engi and thief second to last usefulclass,…last is ranger

GWEN is dominating and thats all u see in na atm
engi is still often seen with lots of granades, but not really part of an organized guild group
thief is ganker for stragelers and casters, but also not really needed
mes is only there because of veil, without veil, there would be no single mesmer.

pshh portal golems..afte almost a year being a veilbot, im so over portaling golem, veiling and tw.seriously its boring and afk while the GWEN gets into the fight after u have done your veil duty is not what i call fun.

DeadlySynz.3471:

Your list was accurate right up until Rangers. They actually do a lot more dps than other classes, both sustained and burst. People just have a tendency to not build them properly.

After Anet removes Crit damage and replaces it with Ferocity.. you may then be very well be accurate in that statement lol.

Troll, idiot or sarcasm… not sure which one but I am hoping for the latter.

I think it’s hilarious that Thief always ends up near the bottom of the list in every one of these “best-to-worst-for-WvW” threads (except of course for roaming and scouting in a game mode that is dominated by large group battles), yet there is probably no class that spawns so many complaint threads about being overpowered.

Anything that isn’t a Warrior or Pseudo Warrior(aka Guardian) is optional in WvW.

IN WHAT ASPECT OF WVW
Not all WvWers zerg, there are small teams, there are 1v1ers
For kittens sake people, some definitive details are always nice

1. Guard
2. War
3. Ele
4. Mesmer
…
the rest

We don’t run the hammer train meta and still wipe hammer train guild groups.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion so I won’t say anyone is right or wrong here. However, as a Ranger who enjoys all roles in WvW, scouting, roaming, zerging or just trolling around enemy territory sniping wanderers; I have to say that I firmly believe their usefulness in a zerg is underestimated. Like a sniper on a perch eliminating his foes from a distance the enemy will seldom see the bullet that killed him.
I sit on the outer rim when zergs clash and tab-target killing anyone who tries to escape with low health. I ensure those who are weak don’t escape combat to recover and rejoin the battle. So although yes, pets are useless in large scale fights, we provide little to no group buffs and we have very few AOE’s (unless running trapper, which, in a zerg is also quite useless) I still would like to stress that we’re not entirely useless.
Not only that, if spec’d correctly, a Ranger’s health can be very difficult to push below 30%. I can run through an entire enemy zerg and come out the other side alive.

Anyway, your list is quite accurate. I’m not trying to disprove anything just trying to acknowledge the fact that too many people underestimate the Ranger. We may be at the bottom of the list but our shine is only dim to the untrained eye.

My list. Note this ranking does not reflect the number of each class I want, simply their importance to effectve wvw battles.
1) Guardian. Most people agree here. The ability to share boons, especially stability, area denial in wards and good combo finishers makes them the cornerstone of wvw.
2) Ele. Some may disagree here, but good water rotations will power your zerg through battles. Area cc, lots of aoe and boon sharing make ele almost as important as guardians.
3) Warriors and necros. Area cc and party condi clears and offensive buffs. Banner res and boon removal.
4) Mesmer. Great utility in reflects, focus pulls, veils, boon stripping, mass invis, timewarp.
5) Thief. The perfect scout. Can also give nice buffs to group with venom shares.
6) Engis. Secondary water fields and lots of condi application but lacks in sustained cc.
7) Rangers. Good water field on their heal and good access to aoe immobilize but otherwise unremarkable.

Tricare.2946:

We don’t run the hammer train meta and still wipe hammer train guild groups.

Cool vid but all I see is a lack of warriors. Still stacking guardians, eles and necros. Stacking guardians with hammer/staff or hammer/greatsword is 75% of the hammer train meta.