Mounts in WvW?

Mounts in WvW?

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Posted by: Tenrai Senshi.2017

Tenrai Senshi.2017

I’m not sure about what others think, but I think having mounts in WvW could be a very fun idea. It would also essentially add another dimension to battles, in the aspect of cavalry charges, and what fantasy setting battle would be complete without a good old heroic cavalry charge? XD

I could also see it working now, with the introduction of territories. You could make it so mounts can only be used in your own territory, or in neutral territory, to prevent them being used to get over walls and such. Or alternately, you could introduce a new mount (perhaps a dolyak type?) specifically for WvW, that is balanced for it and has its own unique WvW masteries (that way you could control its implementation and overall balance better).

All-in-all, I think it could add nice new dimensions to battles in WvW, such as charges and flanking maneuvers, or even new types of defenses that damage and dismount players (such as spike walls or traps).

Any thoughts?

Mounts in WvW?

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Posted by: bigchunk.5190

bigchunk.5190

You would have to make WvW maps larger and also account for people making mounted escapes.

It would change a lot, more than what gliding did for sure.

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Posted by: Jayne.9251

Jayne.9251

“Fun ideas” tend to spell disaster for WvW.

That said, without actually trying it out in a massive-scale player environment, I’m not sure any of us can comment properly.

My feelings are that it will be used to grief through exploits, or that it will reduce framerate down to zero in bigger fights — I mean mini pets do that now.

L’enfer, c’est les autres

Mounts in WvW?

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Posted by: Tenrai Senshi.2017

Tenrai Senshi.2017

You would have to make WvW maps larger and also account for people making mounted escapes.

It would change a lot, more than what gliding did for sure.

Well, mounted escapes wouldn’t really be a thing, because you cannot mount while in combat. The main benefits would be mobility outside of combat, and an engage tool when charging into combat.

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Posted by: Tenrai Senshi.2017

Tenrai Senshi.2017

“Fun ideas” tend to spell disaster for WvW.

That said, without actually trying it out in a massive-scale player environment, I’m not sure any of us can comment properly.

My feelings are that it will be used to grief through exploits, or that it will reduce framerate down to zero in bigger fights — I mean mini pets do that now.

I get what you’re saying, but you can’t just leave WvW stagnant and refrain from developing new ideas because they have the “potential to be a disaster”. If that were the case, WvW would simply stay as is for the next few years, and then people will complain about a lack of innovation. How well any idea is implemented, whether it be mounts or something else, would depend on the developers, but I do still believe there’s a difference between a good (or bad) idea, and simply the bad implementation of a good idea. I don’t believe fear of the latter should stop innovation though.

I also don’t see how it could be used to grief through exploits (at least, not if implemented properly). Perhaps you can give an example of what you have in mind in that regard?

(edited by Tenrai Senshi.2017)

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Posted by: Tenrai Senshi.2017

Tenrai Senshi.2017

Sorry, for three messages in a row, but I thought of an interesting idea of how mounts could possibly be implemented.

You could add a new type of objective that can be captured to maps called a stable. They’d function somewhat similarly to camps, but instead of supply, they contain a set number of mounts. If you have a stable under control, you can travel to it and acquire a mount, which depletes the total amount contained by the stable. This pool regenerates over time (just like supply at camps) and as the stable upgrades, it’s rate of regeneration and maximum supply of mounts increases. It can also increase the base stats for mounts such as speed and health.

Once you acquire a mount, it lasts for a set duration (say a few minutes, which can be increased with upgrades), or until killed (you can give them a set amount of damage they take while mounted before dying and that amount does not regenerate). Both these factors would encourage protecting stables in key locations for resupply purposes.

I do think it could add some interesting dynamics to matches. Controlling key locations for mount supply, and denying the enemy their mounts could give a team a mobility/engage advantage. Perhaps my idea isn’t the best idea for how it could be implemented (I’m sure there are some people who would tell me how crazy it is) but it’s just one of many possibilities.

When I think about it like this, it just gets my imagination flowing on how the developers could really add so much more dynamic to WvW and make it more exciting. Even if it’s not with mounts, there are so many possibilities for this game mode.

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Posted by: Lionwait.4815

Lionwait.4815

The dessert borderlands was unintentionally made for gliding and the community saw that and asked for it. Low and behold we got it. But none of the maps are made for mounting. The idea adding mounts to WvW would be a poor choose for adding in content. There are better things that the community has suggested to work on. For example:

1) Making it so we CAN’T open our glider if we are in combat.

2) Camps are to easy to take. Move the champion tower Lord to each camp.

3) Camp tier upgrades should be time gated and not based by how many caravan/yaks gets to its destination.

4) To promote roaming in communication with commanders. Give Sentry’s the ability to take out/kill caravan/yak unless the caravan/yak has guards protecting it and giving more· purpose for small group communication to take camps.

5) Escorting a caravan/yak is to hard for one person to do and is typically done by just one person. So allow the buff the caravan/yak has, to be shared with one other person.

6) Siege should have an auto attack option and at what distance chosen.

7) Cannon siege should have less distance of range then ballista siege.

8) All siege should be able to take out other siege with ease.

9) Keep/Tower/Castle gates should be easier to take down then walls

10) Limit the amount of hits a wall and gate can take in a 10 seconds span. To incentives multiple plans of attack and to deter mindless zerging.

11) Watchtower improvements should only apply to Keeps/Castles.

12) Ruin cannons should stay till destroyed by apposing enemy’s and not by the lose of the ruins.

13) Add multiple supply depots in Desert Borderland Towers.

14) Limit the amount of gate/wall repairs done in a suitable time frame. Not to fast and not to slow.

15) Sentry’s that apply a mark on enemy’s should last 30 seconds longer.

16) Oil and cannons spawned by fortifications shouldn’t be damaged by player skills. Only by other siege.

17) Remove Mortar’s from all fortifications to balance idea 9)

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Posted by: caveman.5840

caveman.5840

You would have to make WvW maps larger and also account for people making mounted escapes.

It would change a lot, more than what gliding did for sure.

Well, mounted escapes wouldn’t really be a thing, because you cannot mount while in combat. The main benefits would be mobility outside of combat, and an engage tool when charging into combat.

they would need to come up with a system better than tera is using because if all u need to do is get out of combat for a second before using a mount mounted excapes will be a problem and wvw would end up becoming a circus , at very least have a short timer after leaving combat so mounted escapes would not be as easy to pull off

I also like your stable idea because if u get knocked off u cant just hop back on you would need to go back to the stable to get a new one

but I got to say I am scared for my framerate as if wvw is not laggy enough as it is

(edited by caveman.5840)

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Posted by: Jayne.9251

Jayne.9251

Perhaps you can give an example of what you have in mind in that regard?

Oh Maguuma would find ways.

Off the top of my head:

1. Mounts deployed at same mili-second as glider and having flying mounts.

  • A: Gliding horse golem mounts shooting lazers out of eyes and nuking the lord from above a structure.

2. Stealth trolls: gank, stealth, ride off.

3. Use horse deploy to get out of combat and re-start skills.

4. Jumping horses from one pixel of a ledge into a tower.

5. Using horses to create culling in a zone so that enemy blob becomes “invisible”.

There’s probably a lot more. The issue with WvW is it has a precarious balance. Any new introduction needs to be carefully thought out and tested. Tested. Tested again.

It’s a far more fragile mode than any other out there. And historically any introductions of new features have not been well received because of the impact it has on competitive gameplay.

Not everyone’s complaining about stagnation. There’s a reason why people keep playing this mode nearly four years later.

It’s that old adage; if it’s not broke, why fix it?

L’enfer, c’est les autres

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Posted by: Tenrai Senshi.2017

Tenrai Senshi.2017

Not everyone’s complaining about stagnation. There’s a reason why people keep playing this mode nearly four years later.

It’s that old adage; if it’s not broke, why fix it?

To be fair, WvW was dying over the years, and the populations in that mode continued to dwindle over time to the point where when going there, I hardly saw as many as I did in the early lifespan of GW2. It’s only because of some of the more recent additions that the mode has been revived, to the point where you’re actually seeing queues for maps again.

So what does that tell us? New content and innovations keep game modes alive. A lack of that leads to its death.

What you’re suggesting is that ANet shouldn’t add new content to WvW, simply because of the fear of breaking it. But if they were to follow that mantra, the game mode would be long dead and we might as well sweep it under the rug. Sorry, but there’s really no excuse not to develop it further, or to add new content. Sure, not all kinds of content are good, but to plainly say “if it ain’t broke, don’t fix it” as if to encourage not adding content at all, is in my opinion a very bad stance to adopt.

Yes, of course it would need to be tested. Yes of course it would need to be implemented well, but the same can be said for any game mechanics, in any game mode, in any game ever created. So then why not do it, if it does all that and still works? XD

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Posted by: Jayne.9251

Jayne.9251

Not everyone’s complaining about stagnation. There’s a reason why people keep playing this mode nearly four years later.

It’s that old adage; if it’s not broke, why fix it?

To be fair, WvW was dying over the years, and the populations in that mode continued to dwindle over time to the point where when going there, I hardly saw as many as I did in the early lifespan of GW2. It’s only because of some of the more recent additions that the mode has been revived, to the point where you’re actually seeing queues for maps again.

So what does that tell us? New content and innovations keep game modes alive. A lack of that leads to its death.

What you’re suggesting is that ANet shouldn’t add new content to WvW, simply because of the fear of breaking it. But if they were to follow that mantra, the game mode would be long dead and we might as well sweep it under the rug. Sorry, but there’s really no excuse not to develop it further, or to add new content. Sure, not all kinds of content are good, but to plainly say “if it ain’t broke, don’t fix it” as if to encourage not adding content at all, is in my opinion a very bad stance to adopt.

Yes, of course it would need to be tested. Yes of course it would need to be implemented well, but the same can be said for any game mechanics, in any game mode, in any game ever created. So then why not do it, if it does all that and still works? XD

How long did the resurge in population last with each new addition? Is it still the same numbers as a month ago?

FOTM only gains short term numbers. You want to aim for longevity. And that won’t happen with gimmicks. Couple that with the fact that the core playerbase goes crazy with any changes and you have to pick and choose wisely.

People have been forecasting the death of WvW since it started. And yet, it’s still chugging along. You’re not the first, you will not be the last.

Gliding was great. I’m not certain mounts would be as good.

And I never said not to add new content, but know your audience.

L’enfer, c’est les autres

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Posted by: Phantom.5389

Phantom.5389

Not everyone’s complaining about stagnation. There’s a reason why people keep playing this mode nearly four years later.

It’s that old adage; if it’s not broke, why fix it?

To be fair, WvW was dying over the years, and the populations in that mode continued to dwindle over time to the point where when going there, I hardly saw as many as I did in the early lifespan of GW2. It’s only because of some of the more recent additions that the mode has been revived, to the point where you’re actually seeing queues for maps again.

So what does that tell us? New content and innovations keep game modes alive. A lack of that leads to its death.

What you’re suggesting is that ANet shouldn’t add new content to WvW, simply because of the fear of breaking it. But if they were to follow that mantra, the game mode would be long dead and we might as well sweep it under the rug. Sorry, but there’s really no excuse not to develop it further, or to add new content. Sure, not all kinds of content are good, but to plainly say “if it ain’t broke, don’t fix it” as if to encourage not adding content at all, is in my opinion a very bad stance to adopt.

Yes, of course it would need to be tested. Yes of course it would need to be implemented well, but the same can be said for any game mechanics, in any game mode, in any game ever created. So then why not do it, if it does all that and still works? XD

To be fair. Heart of Thorns caused a massive drop in population. Anet fixed some mistakes… but not everyone came back after this massive exodus. Hell even a big guild in BDO is called ‘’Condi wars 2’’.. Figures…

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Posted by: Tenrai Senshi.2017

Tenrai Senshi.2017

Not everyone’s complaining about stagnation. There’s a reason why people keep playing this mode nearly four years later.

It’s that old adage; if it’s not broke, why fix it?

To be fair, WvW was dying over the years, and the populations in that mode continued to dwindle over time to the point where when going there, I hardly saw as many as I did in the early lifespan of GW2. It’s only because of some of the more recent additions that the mode has been revived, to the point where you’re actually seeing queues for maps again.

So what does that tell us? New content and innovations keep game modes alive. A lack of that leads to its death.

What you’re suggesting is that ANet shouldn’t add new content to WvW, simply because of the fear of breaking it. But if they were to follow that mantra, the game mode would be long dead and we might as well sweep it under the rug. Sorry, but there’s really no excuse not to develop it further, or to add new content. Sure, not all kinds of content are good, but to plainly say “if it ain’t broke, don’t fix it” as if to encourage not adding content at all, is in my opinion a very bad stance to adopt.

Yes, of course it would need to be tested. Yes of course it would need to be implemented well, but the same can be said for any game mechanics, in any game mode, in any game ever created. So then why not do it, if it does all that and still works? XD

How long did the resurge in population last with each new addition? Is it still the same numbers as a month ago?

FOTM only gains short term numbers. You want to aim for longevity. And that won’t happen with gimmicks. Couple that with the fact that the core playerbase goes crazy with any changes and you have to pick and choose wisely.

People have been forecasting the death of WvW since it started. And yet, it’s still chugging along. You’re not the first, you will not be the last.

Gliding was great. I’m not certain mounts would be as good.

And I never said not to add new content, but know your audience.

Funny, but I wasn’t predicting the death of WvW, I just said that a lack of content or innovation in a game mode leads to its death, but I never actually said WvW itself would die (especially not if they continue to develop it). But hey, I’m sure it feels good to make assumptions about others or to put words into their mouths. However, believe it or not, it doesn’t help your argument when you fabricate statements that were simply not said.

What I was doing was simply stating facts. WvW numbers did decline, and that is made horrendously evident by the mere fact that ANet ended up having to merge a lot of serves together (with three servers being joined in some cases) just to keep things more balanced out in match-ups. But even with those mergers, I never saw queues in any borderland, and not even in Eternal Battleground, for quite some time thereafter.

It’s also a fact that since ANet added some quality of life changes and content to WvW, which have gradually increased from legendary items to skirmish rewards, that the server population has drastically increased, to the point where I now regularly see queues for every borderland, and Edge of the Mists is almost perpetually in a state of having a queue of 30+. So if anything, what I have been saying is that WvW is growing now, not that I thought it was going to die (quite the opposite of what you accused me of) and that is thanks to more recent additions.

Now, perhaps some cynical people would call the new additions gimmicks, so be it, but it doesn’t change the fact that they made a difference. You say gimmicks won’t help maintain longevity, but I say regular content updates will. If ANet simply continues to develop WvW and keep it feeling fresh, then people will continue to play it. That much has been proven recently, and all you have to do to keep those numbers up is to keep introducing reasons to play or spice things up a bit, establish long term rewards or simply make the mode itself more rewarding (a lot of which they have done already).

In all honesty, I get tired of naysayers that shoot down every idea with lame reasons such as “if it ain’t broke, don’t fix it”. Especially when it’s already been proven that innovation, not stagnation, is what has brought WvW player numbers back up to respectable levels again.

(edited by Tenrai Senshi.2017)

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Posted by: Tenrai Senshi.2017

Tenrai Senshi.2017

To be fair. Heart of Thorns caused a massive drop in population. Anet fixed some mistakes… but not everyone came back after this massive exodus. Hell even a big guild in BDO is called ‘’Condi wars 2’’.. Figures…

Yes, but the funny thing is that a lot of the problems that plagued WvW (such as the condition meta that many complain about) originated in changes intended to improve QoL in PvE. Condition stacking made condition builds more viable in PvE, but it had a snowball effect into WvW. That’s more of an issue of ANet not separating the game modes and balancing them individually (which is something they’ve started doing more recently).

Aside from that, the new BL was frowned upon, but it was removed. The removal did not bring people back though. I’d say many of the new, more recent editions have earned more credit for that.

So to put it plainly, I agree that not all ideas implemented are good. But not implementing new ideas because of the fear of failure is not good either. I think the mistake ANet made with HoTS is they made very drastic, sweeping changes, rather than incremental improvements, and so it hit a lot harder and with less remorse when things went wrong. It’s easier to fix or roll back on a series of small but meaningful changes than it is to roll back on significant reworks. I think they’ve learned that now.

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Posted by: pupflup.8250

pupflup.8250

I think mounts would indeed spice up the combat in wvw and add a new dimension to the tactics available to commanders. However the current maps might indeed be too small for mounts, so, a new BL or so might be an idea. A test in the current maps might help clear things out tho. With regard to changes, a lot of people kitten on the idea of implementing gliders in wvw and it turned out to be fun and innovating. I think mounts would do exactly this, and even better, if implemented in the correct way. I for one would just love to see squads charging with their mounts through the battlefield pinning down retreating foes. Or mounted zergs clashing together. Finally, allot of other MMOs have mounts in pvp and it adds value imo, oke, they only have a movement increase function, but I think the extras GW2 is giving to mounts is what will make it awesome.

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Posted by: Vikkela.7261

Vikkela.7261

9 Guardians later…