Guild Wars 2

…and bring back the alpine map without the HoT crap. Seriously… go read what everyone was actually requesting. We are tired of the stupid banners and terrible upgrade/wp changes.

EotM was supposed to be the testing ground for WvW changes, you can test out whatever you want there without disrupting WvW. That’s where the deserted bl belongs. Don’t make us keep waiting, we are tired of hearing things will be fixed “soon”.

Again. EoTM has one of the highest populations. I don’t see those players out here asking for a change and since most WvW players consider it PvE, leave it alone unless you are going to add it to the base WvW scoring system.

TheGrimm.5624:

Again. EoTM has one of the highest populations. I don’t see those players out here asking for a change and since most WvW players consider it PvE, leave it alone unless you are going to add it to the base WvW scoring system.

What?

TheGrimm.5624:

Again. EoTM has one of the highest populations. I don’t see those players out here asking for a change and since most WvW players consider it PvE, leave it alone unless you are going to add it to the base WvW scoring system.

" Edge of the Mists serves as a testing ground for the new features that may be introduced to WvW"
Straight from the official wiki. Let eotm actually be used for its intended purpose so the rest of us can get back to enjoying WvW.
I doubt the majority of the pugs will even notice they are on a different map as long as they have someone to lead the karma train.

Move it to eotm or pve, just keep it out of wvw.

Has anything actually been tested in EotM and then moved into WvW? Were any of the changes that were made in HoT first tried in EotM?

I get what it was supposed to be…but that’s a far cry from what it is.

EotM already has a far better map. Leave it alone.

DeWolfe.2174:

EotM already has a far better map. Leave it alone.

Hey now, no more falling off of bridges into nothing.. Dont you think they would rather fall off cliffs? Is’nt the eotm map stale by now?

Get rid of the dbl maps and eotm.

TheGrimm.5624:

unless you are going to add it to the base WvW scoring system.

This could’ve actually been the thought process of how to even out pop imbalance that exists in the real wvw currently. However, most real wvw’ers are dead set against the KTrains and quote unquote gimmicks that come with eotm.

It’s ok that the eotm’ers like their stuff and don’t want it to change, but understand alot of wvw’ers liked their stuff too and it changed anyway, slowly at first and then unrecognizable fast! Changes that weren’t even asked for by the majority and changes that kind of point to the theory, that since eotm is so crowded and wvw isnt, that players must prefer eotm type play or that eotm is not a testing ground for wvw, but vice versa. I’d like to think most true wvw players don’t like eotm and that eotmers don’t like wvw, which is why they didn’t go there before. But, introduce a new map, and take a recent example, a rumor 1 server recently got infused with eotm guilds, when before under the Alpine BL they didn’t. Why do you suppose that is? Because the current BL IS an EOTM map!

Personally, I’m ok with them testing changes in both of the formats seperately and listening to feedback from those in the communities. But, despite what Anet may think, these are 2 separate beasts with 2 very different mindsets of what does or should occur within the realms amd as such, should remain different, with neither being testing grounds for the other.

I think it’s a great idea but more so for population issues…. DBL would be a lot of fun if the map was full on all 3 sides.

Yes DBL was made for eotm.
In eotm no one care about the keep. It’s the same on DBL because they have no value, and all is automatic.
They have made some change with the required number of dolyak, but initially all was running alone. Exactly what eotm need…. Useless structure upgrading alone, to allow player focusing on KTrain / Fight.
But with the size of the map you need tons of players to make something playable… This is only possible 24H/24 in eotm.

HazyDaisy.4107:

However, most real wvw’ers are dead set against the KTrains and quote unquote gimmicks that come with eotm.

I like how people keep using “ninja” in regards to taking empty objectives in ABL, the other translation is K-Train. Does it have value to take them, sometimes if a server is going for PPT and sometimes for attacking another objective. But also it was quite often used by people avoiding fights to get karma and loot. Still remember whole guilds going to empty maps to take it over. Did they break up and take it in one swoop, no, they zerged each one down one by one and then moved to the next empty BL. Call a spade a spade at least.

Sich.7103:

In eotm no one care about the keep.

And when were you out in EoTM? Recently? When it first came out? How fresh is your information?

Even if that were the case, that’s just another reason why they should have linked it more into traditional WvW scoring. But that aside, have seen hours long keep fights that matched ones in BLs before. And to your point, for no other reason (since PPT does impact it) but since one side wanted it and the other side objected. And have seen people K-Train, but have seen that in regular WvW too.

sephiroth.4217:

I think it’s a great idea but more so for population issues…. DBL would be a lot of fun if the map was full on all 3 sides.

See that’s part of it. So ANet brings back ABL. Makes some people happy, makes some not happy. Why not bring back ABL and then make DBL into a three sided map and leave it as a 5th battlefield. People that don’t like it, they have options, people that do, also have options. It still favors the vocal majority of forum peeps since they now have 4 maps but leaves a sandbox for those of us that liked both. As others have said, they are in a lose lose position either way, why not try and retain as many as possible.

TheGrimm.5624:

And when were you out in EoTM? Recently? When it first came out? How fresh is your information?

Last week maybe… And yes EOTM like usual is not about holding anything.
Just about KTrain and fight. No one care about the PPT score.
It’s not a bad thing for me in this game mode, it’s only for fun and level up.

Sich.7103:

TheGrimm.5624:

And when were you out in EoTM? Recently? When it first came out? How fresh is your information?

Last week maybe… And yes EOTM like usual is not about holding anything.
Just about KTrain and fight. No one care about the PPT score.
It’s not a bad thing for me in this game mode, it’s only for fun and level up.

Then we have had different experiences. Have seen sides hold their keep from all takers for entire matches and commanders that would bring the zerg back if an alarm was raised from the defenders. Have seen the opposite as well, but don’t stick around for those.

TheGrimm.5624:

Then we have had different experiences. Have seen sides hold their keep from all takers for entire matches and commanders that would bring the zerg back if an alarm was raised from the defenders. Have seen the opposite as well, but don’t stick around for those.

Honestly I only see that 1 time…. And after 10min everyone was leaving because they where not interested to defend something and the commander was only with 10 people….

TheGrimm.5624:

HazyDaisy.4107:

However, most real wvw’ers are dead set against the KTrains and quote unquote gimmicks that come with eotm.

I like how people keep using “ninja” in regards to taking empty objectives in ABL, the other translation is K-Train. Does it have value to take them, sometimes if a server is going for PPT and sometimes for attacking another objective. But also it was quite often used by people avoiding fights to get karma and loot. Still remember whole guilds going to empty maps to take it over. Did they break up and take it in one swoop, no, they zerged each one down one by one and then moved to the next empty BL. Call a spade a spade at least.

I call it ninja when I’m solo or with a small group. Such as when my 5 man group caught the 2 opposing servers fighting over 1 of their fully upgraded hills. They both had big kitten blobs, the attacking server had busted through outer but the inner was full of so much siege they couldn’t make much head way and were stuck trying to build cata’s on the outer wall.
My group stealthed past the zergs, ran around to north inner, rammed it open, and snuck in while they zergs were fighting. We stealthed into lords room and managed to get the lord down to about 10% before anyone noticed, but at that point so much of their zerg was distracted or dead that they could only about 10 of them made it in to stop us and we easily wiped the floor with them and stole the keep.
That was kittening ninja.

Or sometimes it’s as simple as when I have spent the past few hours by myself harassing a bl, tapping the wp’s over and over, flipping camps, etc. and then I sneak through a sneaky cata spot, leave the keep, resume tapping things on the other side of the map to draw their attention, come back to get inner down, and solo the lord.

Either way, it’s never a k-train. And most the time if I did take a keep I would start upgrading it because at that point the fights are coming to me and I have the terrain advantage.

Puck.9612:

…and bring back the alpine map without the HoT crap. Seriously… go read what everyone was actually requesting. We are tired of the stupid banners and terrible upgrade/wp changes.

EotM was supposed to be the testing ground for WvW changes, you can test out whatever you want there without disrupting WvW. That’s where the deserted bl belongs. Don’t make us keep waiting, we are tired of hearing things will be fixed “soon”.

NO! EotM map is hilariously awesome, Desert BL’s are just crap, delete them don’t use them to wreck something else.

Seriously worst idea, why would you suggest this over “get rid of desert BL altogether and bring back alpine.” Why try to wreck another part of the game?

MSFone.3026:

Seriously worst idea, why would you suggest this over “get rid of desert BL altogether and bring back alpine.” Why try to wreck another part of the game?

Because they hate EotM and know this map would kill it just as it did to WvW. Yes, Desert is just that bad of a map, period. EotM stay’s as is because it works and players enjoy it daily. If anything, I believe it’s population has steadily increased since it launched. You don’t kill something that’s working well.

MSFone.3026:

Puck.9612:

…and bring back the alpine map without the HoT crap. Seriously… go read what everyone was actually requesting. We are tired of the stupid banners and terrible upgrade/wp changes.

EotM was supposed to be the testing ground for WvW changes, you can test out whatever you want there without disrupting WvW. That’s where the deserted bl belongs. Don’t make us keep waiting, we are tired of hearing things will be fixed “soon”.

NO! EotM map is hilariously awesome, Desert BL’s are just crap, delete them don’t use them to wreck something else.

Seriously worst idea, why would you suggest this over “get rid of desert BL altogether and bring back alpine.” Why try to wreck another part of the game?

EotM map is pretty terrible, sadly it is still better than the garbage desert map. However the dev’s aren’t willing to give up on the desert map and the EotM is supposed to be a testing ground for WvW so that is where changes to their crap map need to be tested.

The short matches mean they can change things without interfering with the week long WvW battles. They could even just put the new variations of the desert map in for a week to get feedback and then return the EotM map for a week or 2 while they make changes based on the feedback.

And let’s be real, most of the EotM players wouldn’t even notice the difference. I went there for a couple hours the other day to level an alt, I sent a guy flying off a ledge and I saw 3 people jump off after him….. (trying to kill him?)…. kittening 3 people leaped to their own deaths after a guy that was already dead.

Puck.9612:

wall of whine

EotM is now an established game mode and not something for the Dev’s to toy with. If anything, regular WvW has sadly become the more expendable mode. Just because you personally never liked EotM, doesn’t mean you are more important than an entire mode.

Btw, a BL map is not designed around a balanced three way fight. A balanced 3 way is an essential requirement for an EotM map. So no, the Desert or Alpine BL map cannot be used for EotM at all.

As I posted above, this request comes from individuals that have had it in for EotM since it launched. That’s why such it’s such an illogical request.

DeWolfe.2174:

Puck.9612:

wall of whine

EotM is now an established game mode and not something for the Dev’s to toy with. If anything, regular WvW has sadly become the more expendable mode. Just because you personally never liked EotM, doesn’t mean you are more important than an entire mode.

Btw, a BL map is not designed around a balanced three way fight. A balanced 3 way is an essential requirement for an EotM map. So no, the Desert or Alpine BL map cannot be used for EotM at all.

As I posted above, this request comes from individuals that have had it in for EotM since it launched. That’s why such it’s such an illogical request.

Just because a few bad players that can’t hang in real WvW have chosen to go there and farm uplevels doesn’t make it an established game mode. EotM isn’t anymore of an established game mode than the queensdale champ train was… The map has 2 purposes, serve as an overflow for WvW queue times and serve as a testing ground.

You say the deserted map isn’t balanced for a 3 way fight but you each team already starts with their own keep, and they are going to be actively changing the map, what’s to say they don’t make it completely balanced for a three way?

i am a pvx player, and a regular gem buyer. Haven’t touched gw2 for more than 6 months. I’ll come back to gw2 if they bring back Alpine BLs and remove all HoT crap gimmicks they introduced to wvw (banners, guild claims, auto-upgrades, locked wps, foods buffs, removal of guard stacks) etc .

Puck.9612:

TheGrimm.5624:

HazyDaisy.4107:

However, most real wvw’ers are dead set against the KTrains and quote unquote gimmicks that come with eotm.

I like how people keep using “ninja” in regards to taking empty objectives in ABL, the other translation is K-Train. Does it have value to take them, sometimes if a server is going for PPT and sometimes for attacking another objective. But also it was quite often used by people avoiding fights to get karma and loot. Still remember whole guilds going to empty maps to take it over. Did they break up and take it in one swoop, no, they zerged each one down one by one and then moved to the next empty BL. Call a spade a spade at least.

I call it ninja when I’m solo or with a small group. Such as when my 5 man group caught the 2 opposing servers fighting over 1 of their fully upgraded hills. They both had big kitten blobs, the attacking server had busted through outer but the inner was full of so much siege they couldn’t make much head way and were stuck trying to build cata’s on the outer wall.
My group stealthed past the zergs, ran around to north inner, rammed it open, and snuck in while they zergs were fighting. We stealthed into lords room and managed to get the lord down to about 10% before anyone noticed, but at that point so much of their zerg was distracted or dead that they could only about 10 of them made it in to stop us and we easily wiped the floor with them and stole the keep.
That was kittening ninja.

Or sometimes it’s as simple as when I have spent the past few hours by myself harassing a bl, tapping the wp’s over and over, flipping camps, etc. and then I sneak through a sneaky cata spot, leave the keep, resume tapping things on the other side of the map to draw their attention, come back to get inner down, and solo the lord.

Either way, it’s never a k-train. And most the time if I did take a keep I would start upgrading it because at that point the fights are coming to me and I have the terrain advantage.

I would describe “Ninja” as a small group taking a large structure in record time with or without opposition, but mostly very stealthlike, and “ktrain” as a blob rolling into said structures obliterating the 2 people defending and dancing on their corpses afterwards. PPT be kitten ed, Ktrains are mainly for spite and humiliatuon, whereas ninjas are mainly skill groups that do it for fun. There is a distinct difference with the two terms.

HazyDaisy.4107:

I would describe “Ninja” as a small group taking a large structure in record time with or without opposition, but mostly very stealthlike, and “ktrain” as a blob rolling into said structures obliterating the 2 people defending and dancing on their corpses afterwards. PPT be kitten ed, Ktrains are mainly for spite and humiliatuon, whereas ninjas are mainly skill groups that do it for fun. There is a distinct difference with the two terms.

If there is no opposition on the map, its effectively a K-Train or adding to one if the other side is just coming back thru and reflipping it before PPT counts. If its occurring over night then its night capping which a lot of people are quite often up in arms about. I concur if you do it while the map is contested then its different. Ninja requires someone around to have stopped the action. Doing it in the middle of two other sides fighting for that objective, concur, ninja. Jumping from a fighting map to an empty to flip there stuff and no one is on map, no. Might help in distracting or pulling pressure, but still a type of k-train.

So WvW is dead and the only active place is EOTM and you want to destroy that to ?
lol

Valky.2574:

So WvW is dead and the only active place is EOTM and you want to destroy that to ?
lol

What makes you think putting the deserted bl in rotation for eotm would destroy it? It’s full of the PvE gimmicks those players enjoy. I bet if they ever got the dino skyhammer to work properly the k-trainers would love it. Less siege to worry about.