Guild Wars 2

DavidMonthen.4398:

I want a spectator mode for the week of AS vs VS vs ? !

I kindof hope FS won’t be there for that…

Kodora.9684:

The fact is many french players don’t have a job and play during the night.

How come the Spanish server isn’t first then ?

(sorry, for my defense, I’ french but I live and work and Spain I had to say something about this)

DavidMonthen.4398:

We do try to get things organised in the Augury Rock Borderlands.

Our success can be measured by how we kept AH against a continuous attack by Arborstone yesterday evening starting at about 1am (GMT+1). Oh and we still had AH when I left for work today at 6am. That’s right. 5hours straight defending and we managed. I have no idea how things went afterwards, as I had to leave for work, but i would imagine we will have lost the keep eventually. It was an epic battle and great fun!

- Bloodsteel

I’m on the outside looking in at this Consola- sorry, Desolation thing, and speaking from a low ranking server that gets rolled during night and pushed during peak due to numbers, I want to say that you’ve got exactly the right attitude, mate.

WvW is a long game, played over many matches and the most important factor in a server’s ability to respond to adversity and adapt over the long term is morale. Sure it’s tough getting beaten by “nightcappers” and coming last by wide margins, but moaning about it just breaks all pride and resolve in your server and encourages your enemies.

You guys need to tighten your sphincters and take the losses (and have fun doing it) otherwise in a few months time you’ll be passed by the likes of Whiteside and Surmia who are toughening up and not giving up even when things are bad. If that happens it won’t be Canada’s fault, it’ll be your own.

Phara Miu

i have almost no lag so i dunno what people are talking about playing overseas, also i have a 100Mbit connection maybe thats why i dont seem to have such lag ?

That is very rarely related to the bandwidth spec of your connection.
Bad latency is most often caused by the routing to the game servers, and is not only dependant on your ISP’s preferred route but also to the responsiveness of every hub along that route your packages pass through both ways. My current ISP for example has different hubs along its route to the US than my previous one even though I’m physically still located in the same place.
Some games I was able to play without problems on US servers without large increase in latency have now become too laggy for me to play and games I previously had too much lag now have a reasonably low latency. The max. bandwidth of my connection stayed the same.

As for the rest of your post; I just see you as a deserter coward :P

DavidMonthen.4398:

Magnus, what you fail to understand is this:

1. We will not win this weeks WvWvW

I can assure you I have a perfect understanding of this. In fact, I already pointed out (several times) that one of the biggest failings of the current scoring system is that it intrinsically amplifies small population differences allowing those to snowball into huge point differences. As a result, the winner of nearly every single matchup is painfully obvious right after the first 24 hours with a few exceptions needing 72 (i.e. the first work day) for the final picture. Thus, 7-day games make no sense as the last 4 days are completely useless in determining the winner.

DavidMonthen.4398:

2. it doesn’t matter a single bit if we win or not as long as it is fun to play and it is, because it is challenging and rewarding at the same time (at least if you play in an organized group, if you are not, well … you are making a mistake…)

That’s the whole point, to me it’s not fun and this is directly linked to your next point:

DavidMonthen.4398:

3. Stop blaming “nightcapping” – again: it’s a valid tactic, it’s not worth any less than playing during the day — so if arbor can keep this up they deserve to win.

The huge design problem, as I already said, it’s that nightcapping is not simply a valid tactic or a strong tactic; it’s THE ONLY tactic. Nothing else you do, in or out of the game, will result in the same point swing as a few hours of unopposed capping.

Brilliant pincer movements to wipe out enemy zergs? Useless.
Perfect choice and positioning of siege weapons? Useless.
High coordination and continuous inter-team and inter-guild communication? Useless.

Drop your Ventrilo/TS server, delete your guild forums, stop theorizing about the best defending and attacking strategies, heck, even stop logging into the game at all. You want to win? Just hire a 500-strong night capping team, and let the brainless puggers carry you through peak time. Their mere numbers alone will be enough to not let the enemy gain too much of an advantage (just check the Eternal Battlegrounds map, whenever there’s full numbers nothing significant ever changes, there’s just one of the 3 servers holding Stonemist and that’s it), and whatever small gains the enemy will have achieved against your puggers through their superior tactics will be completely nullified by your night team unopposed capping. Best thing about it? You don’t even need to play the actual game. Just set the schedule up outside of it, and you’re done.

I don’t know about you, but when I play a game, I want my actions (i.e. my input into the game state) to have a significant outcome on the final result. Right now this isn’t the case. I could be a better general than Alexander the Great, coordinating with utter genius 666 players on all 4 maps for 12 hours a day, and whatever results I achieved would be completely undone by a zerg of 50 braindead m.r.ns playing at 4:00 AM and recapping everything not because they outsmart me but simply because they play PvDoors.

If you like this game, hey, I’m happy for you; but you can’t really be surprised if people don’t like playing a game in which their actions do not have any significant consequence. It’s not about winning or losing; it’s about me being inconsequential either way. If we lose, it’s not (also) my fault, and if we win, it’s not (also) thanks to my actions. What’s the point?

Let me ask you a simple question: do you honestly see yourself still playing this game in 6 months time, if the matchups keep being so ridiculously lopsided and the winner being determined by something done out of game (alarm clock scheduling) rather than in game (fighting the actual battles)?

What the problem ? In the end nightcapping serv fight together on the 1 tier and you can have very good fight vs serv with schedule like yours in tier 2/3. ( Augury Rock <3 by example ). It’s only a bad week to past.

Wothan.4673:

What the problem ? In the end nightcapping serv fight together on the 1 tier and you can have very good fight vs serv with schedule like yours in tier 2/3. ( Augury Rock <3 by example ). It’s only a bad week to past.

It won’t work. When we went against weaker servers, we nightcapped them. Same c..p, except we were on the winning side. Doesn’t change anything to me.

Unless you have full numbers 24/7, the matchmaking system is never going to work. There are simply too few servers to hope to find 2 others which are so close to your numbers to result in a balanced fight. Chances are, the one above you will always be far too strong, and the one below you will always be far too weak.

Let the french server get up in tier to be able to kill each other , to bad the wvwvw counts quantity over quality so funy today even at 5pm gmt we had on Desolation border land outmaned buff :P , and they think they kick kitten , let me put it streight for you nope prety much every resource fight we are prety much outnumbered

DavidMonthen.4398:

How about everyone who doesn’t have the balls to face a stronger oponent just transfers away from Desolation? The server would gain so much from that… C’mon, do it! It’s still free at the moment!

- Bloodsteel

Have you not been paying attention man! Ofcourse we got people transfering away from desolation, why do you think our queue’s are… uh… non-existing?

Oh, where they went? To Arborstone ofcourse. The PvE farmers want their free rewards.

We’ve already seen several ‘Desolation’ guilds on Arborstone. We even had 3 cases in chat where one Deso player said he just killed a ‘clan member’ that was playing on Arborstone.

What can I say, spineless cowards and free transfers create a breeding ground for ‘kittens’.

Edit: Regarding nightcapping, that’s great, all is fair in love and war they keep saying. It’s also fair to outright kill traitors, yet we cannot even do that. If you’re going with an “everything is fair in WvW” policy, we need the tools to counter things like people being cowards or useless. Just my thoughts on the subject, all or nothing.

MagnusLL.8473:

The huge design problem, as I already said, it’s that nightcapping is not simply a valid tactic or a strong tactic; it’s THE ONLY tactic. Nothing else you do, in or out of the game, will result in the same point swing as a few hours of unopposed capping.

Brilliant pincer movements to wipe out enemy zergs? Useless.
Perfect choice and positioning of siege weapons? Useless.
High coordination and continuous inter-team and inter-guild communication? Useless.

I wonder if Oceanic players feel the same way?

Think about it.

We’ve already seen several ‘Desolation’ guilds on Arborstone. We even had 3 cases in chat where one Deso player said he just killed a ‘clan member’ that was playing on Arborstone

These people are aware that our waiting list to inc in wvw is very long ? ( if you have some name ?… in mp if you want to do in public )

Wothan.4673:

We’ve already seen several ‘Desolation’ guilds on Arborstone. We even had 3 cases in chat where one Deso player said he just killed a ‘clan member’ that was playing on Arborstone

This guy are aware that our waiting list to inc in wvw is very long ?

What does that have to do with my post?

Edit: Or do you mean ‘these guys’ as in, the ones transfering? If so, we got no names, since we can’t see player names from other servers. I forgot the names of the guilds mentioned, but perhaps someone else remembers and can post it.

Yes, I speak about the ppl transferring, not about you
Sorry for the mistake, my English isn’t very good.

It’s just the mindless leeches for the most part. They can be part of a guild but that doesn’t automaticly make them decent players.

Thing is, these are the type of people that only play for rewards, and they do not listen or read chat. So if chat is English or French, it makes no difference for them. They just want to join the zerg that gives them most rewards.

Next reset they’ll be back on Desolation to either stay if we’re winning, or transfer to the winning server again.

Nothing we can do about it as long as free server transfers exist.

When Aurora Glade and Blacktide fought Arborstone last week, they did the same thing and took a 30k advantage over the week-end and kept nightcapping during the week as well.

The fight was something like this : 10am-3pm Blacktide dominated, then 3pm-8pm, Aurora dominated, then 8-10pm things were equal amongst all servers and then starting 10pm for the next 12h, Arborstonre would have 380+ points ticking.

I’m not convinced they have that many canadians though. I know for fact at 1am I played several times, three guilds I saw were not canadians, but real french unless they mass recruited canadians.

They have a dedicated night crew, that’s for sure, but I don’t think many of them are canadians contrary to popular belief.

As I remember, when Underworld had Arborstone and we said the exact same thing we were told by the top servers to “suck it up and recruit a night shift”.

Forgive me if I now laugh for a little while and tell you to suck it up and recruit a night shift.

Gibbonici.9437:

I wonder if Oceanic players feel the same way?

Think about it.

What has this to do with the problems I’m describing (we’re discussing about EU servers btw)?

If you mean “do the people playing with light or no opposition think their actions are worthless” then I’d say obviously not, since their actions at the moment are the sole determinant of the final score.
I’d not have any fun with the game even if I was in such a condition anyway, though, as I’d simply be zerging everything due to superior numbers. The problem would switch from “my actions are worthless” to “my brain is worthless as I auto-win by banging against doors, killing NPCs, and outzerging 5:1 or more the few enemies I can find here or there”. Not exactly an engaging PvP experience either.

Ah… blacktide fight … http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bmobNfZ6iGA

Wothan.4673:

Ah… blacktide fight … http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bmobNfZ6iGA

So mesemer teleport for the wins cheese for the winers , do you know you are invisible for the enemy for almost the entire time ? i would not be so proud using lame stuff like that

Last match we (Desolation) most probably won thanks to nightcapping, this match we will loose thanks to night capping.

The problem with nightcapping is that you can play whole kittening day as good as you can, using food and nourishment, then you go to sleep, you wake up, and you see you have 17k points of deficit or profit. It sucks both ways, cause it is clear that your actions doesnt matter at all.

Yeah, I have fun doing WvWvW PvP but now that I have 7k kills on my hero, I would like some aditional incentive to play WvWvW, like my server needs me, I do matter, which is not the case. So right now I can go in and kill things but it kinda feels pointless. No thrill, no urge, so I make my daily and off we go to sPvP.

I would like to have “fair” battle with other servers, but with nightcapping I dont see it as fair or do I feel like I matter. If there were aditional statistic I could at least, you know, compare my e – peen with others from my or other servers, but I cant do even that.

I think many people feel the similar way, would be funny if in the end only the nightcappers would play, and they would eventually stop too because PvDoors would get old too and noone would give a kitten anyway…

Takes the **** really though having to see Arb and Aug players running past each other not fighting just taking on desolation players, personally thats a load of B*****ks. Its a WvWvW not W+WvW.

I love to battle hard and fight against the best but when there is obviously a problem with balancing here something needs to be done. Move either a server to another or start working on something to sort this balancing out.

DavidMonthen.4398

You keep saying night capping is a valid tactic even though I argue in my opening post that you have canadian players and their peak hours are in the middle of the night, hence the massive zergs I see in the night and morning.

Desolation was literally being trapped in front of the spawn in eternal battlegrounds at about 8am yesterday by a MASSIVE arborstone zerg. Stop acting smart and stop bullkitten everyone

AlienMagi.7102:

you have canadian players and their peak hours are in the middle of the night, hence the massive zergs I see in the night and morning.

Yeah, and that’s actually not true.

As much as I would love to have Canadian players on French server, there isn’t, or very few isolated people playing with their friends, and they’re certainly not responsible of nightcap

Nightcap is just the reflect of the server population involvement in wvw.
It obviously doesn’t prove they are better players, just that they have more people dedicated to wvw regarding the global population of the server.

There are no Massive French Canadien players on French EU servers because it makes no sense for them to roll on French EU servers.

French Canadiens are like you and me and just like you and me they have a life, job, families and wan’t to have a good fight and fun during THEIR prime-time. The only French Canadiens on our servers are peeps with playing hours EST between 2pm and till 8pm as at that moment they’re playing in our EU prime-time. All the others are on US servers.

We do have French EU players that went playing on US servers because their playing time is during our night. Nobody wants to PVE door and we all want a good fight.

But I agree that with the actual WvWvW system night capping is an issue as it gives you the feeling you lost everything you fought so hard for and it all feels so, useless at the end. Anet needs to bring in “milestones” and a form of progression so even if you lose because of night capping it’s still worth to go out there. And just for the fun of fighting isn’t going to last long, we all know that.

Alienmagi, if you want Anet to start taking your whine into account you should start by admitting the truth: there is almost no Candaian players on Eu servers.
What Anet is doing actually:
- read you whine instead of organizing
- check the whereabouts of people playing on VS or AS
- see there’s no canadian
- think you’re just a whiner looking for external cause to explain his losses

I just almost quitted WvW , waiting for planetside 2 .
After the couple of answer from anet i have no hope for the future of the WvW .

I’ve seen towers two-manned. I don’t know what’s the minimum number to take over a keep, but it has to be very few too.

At 5 a.m., even the smallest advantage in numbers has a great effect on the map.

The Canadian thing – obviously it’s just a joke to poke some friendly fun at the Frenchies. Even if they have Canadians, that’s cool and not a problem.

The real problem is people have to stay late to be competitive in WvW. Because that’s what it takes. Not skill. Not strategy. It takes a zombie-like night shift that shows up day after day, month after month.

Now, imagine if ANet had advertised WvW as a game of insomnia attrition:

“You can swing your sword and swing it again,
but if you swing it at 5 a.m., you count for ten!”

Doesn’t sound very appealing, does it?

And no matter what ANet devs think at the moment, basing a game around attrition, and not around anything more fun, will come back and haunt them.

I am from Underworld, we came up against them last week. During peak hours they were pretty good, good tactics, but if we had a leader we could hold our corner. Then comes the night. Now one strength underworld has had in previous weeks is our numbers at night. We have been against German and other international servers and not had a problem at night. Then comes Arborstone. Huge numbers as if at a peak hour, against our small groups, no contest really. Although I did take pleasure in 3 of us stopping an attack at Ascension from 20 of them.

Now we cant blaim them, obviously either they DO have a lot of Canadians, and wvw is designed to allow players to experience everything at the play time they choose. Not to mention they are only playing to their strength as Underworld does at night. But where does the line get drawn between fair and unfair? Obviously they wish to speak French, so they choose a French server. Just as most of us pick English speaking servers. Should there be a French speaking Canadian server implemented purely due to wvw? Bit of a far reach. Should night capping points be reduced? So when I get a sleepless night, its pointless for me to play?

Tough debate really. Personally, I would wish continents be kept seperate, but that may be a big cost for Anet.

they DO have a lot of Canadians

Once again, we have no Canadian with us, we have one New Caledonian guild ( utc+11) and one form Réunion island ( utc+4 ), but yes, we have many french player playing night / morning.

Anyone that has played WvWvW enough and is worth his/her salt can tell you with absolutely certainty that, as it stands right now, the team with the biggest nightcapping crew is the team that is going to, eventually, win the weekly matchup, more often than not, having a huge score advantage over the 2nd. There are no if’s and but’s here and it doesn’t require rocket science to figure it out. I know it, you know, everyone that has taken the time and put in the effort knows it.

That being said, I’m one of the few people that has played alongside IRON (not I’m not part of that guild) on AR borderlands this week and that’s pretty much the only map where Desolation has had some mild success sieging it up and trying to defend AH, even against overwhelming odds (I’m talking about 5 vs 1 best case scenario here), mainly due to the fact that we seem to have more players on that map willing to duke it out even on 4-6am in the morning.

The thing is, there just can’t be victory against those odds, anyway you twist it, save for more capable people queing for the other maps, which is something that is simply not going to happen, when the initial weekend gain has managed to demoralize a good portion of those people. While I personally agree with Bloodsteel and Thorny as to the fact that at the end of the day, all that matters is you enjoying the very nature of WvW (and care less about the score), I can’t ignore the fact that a lot of players do not see it that way and need some kind of motivation, other than fighting for the sake of fighting, in order to get involved in an uphill battle. Maybe they need to change their mindset about it, since it is quite clear that A.Net isn’t really going to do anything about it, then again I can’t really blame them for opting out, since no one really enjoys dying over X vs 1 skirmishes.

TLDR : More fighting (if that is your thing), less whining. Deso isn’t the most coordinated realm in the…universe but we are getting better at it and the potential for improvement definitely exists. Choosing the “easy way out”, by transfering to the winning side, isn’t always going to be an option and on top of this, I personally feel that it takes away a lot from the sense of achievement such a (hollow) victory brings to the table.

Bish.8627:

Should there be a French speaking Canadian server implemented purely due to wvw? […]
Tough debate really. Personally, I would wish continents be kept seperate, but that may be a big cost for Anet.

I agree 100%.
Then you’d realise that there is no Canadians on french server.
Would you then start to think about what can be done on your server to improve things?
Or find another external imaginary reason?

Anyway, if the next week PA and VS kick the kitten of FS out of the T1, drama will be interesting xD

Lets hope we (FSP) get moved down a bracket so the snail eaters can play together at 6am.

My guild (GoD) are also not taking much part in WvWvW atm. Seems like most people lost will to play when we have 2 french servers and one of them night cap like crazy

My guild (GoD) are also not taking much part in WvWvW atm. Seems like most people lost will to play when we have 2 french servers and one of them night cap like crazy

What the problem, play for fight, don’t care about the score if the fight is good when you log.

If you play only when your serv win… well it says a lot about a lot of things…

Lets hope we (FSP) get moved down a bracket so the snail eaters can play together at 6am.

Well atm WvW is 24/24, so again what the problem, if you log at 6am you can fight, it’s pretty good no ?

If FSP move down, do you think it will be fun for you to fight vs serv who can do nothing against you ?

For future references to the “tough guys” that think everything is fine and haven’t actually experienced the kitten we’re going through here:

http://shrani.si/f/f/13U/3NNlq3LC/gw126.jpg

There are no queues to any of the wvw maps anymore. Everyone on our server except for about 40 people who keep persisting have given up.

3 supply camps…. 3 supply camps is all we have through all wvw maps?

Look at this and tell me it’s normal http://shrani.si/f/2Z/5c/4bVWAGgb/gw128.jpg

Psykoyul.9147:

FGM.7605:

To Anet

Very simple thing that solvers this problem is to block all the IP’s from Canada (or whole Americas and then vice versa) accessing EU servers. If the French Canadians are truly not playing on EU servers which I’m certain they do, than they won’t mind it anyways. Additionally it could solve a lot of those nasty lag spikes. Anet have you ever seen what are they doing at 4 A.M. GMT+1??? Full Zerg 50-60 PPL, like WTF!!!

…

Dear Anet, again I agree 100% with this kind sir.
Please implement this fix so that all the constant whiners, all the “I have no idea what I’m talking about” get faced with their dirty ignorance.

I have to admit that the main reason that I want this change is that I can’t wait to see what the losers would then imagine to explain their losses.

That said, I am well aware that some forum whiners don’t make a community and that there are a lot of solid opponents that are trying to make things better for their server. Good luck to you guys, it won’t be easy with all those baby girls you have to deal with

Just like when Riot Games had to split the EU server into EU West and EU Nordic&East. Before that whiners were blaming russian players “and their hieroglyphs”, after that they were blaming the spanish/french/german/dutch players (and the one-time free transfer sometimes).

It seems like it’s a rule in online gaming, “if something goes wrong, that’s never my fault, that’s someone else’s, even if this someone else does not exist”. People will always need a scapegoat…

AlienMagi.7102:

For future references to the “tough guys” that think everything is fine and haven’t actually experienced the kitten we’re going through here:

http://shrani.si/f/f/13U/3NNlq3LC/gw126.jpg

There are no queues to any of the wvw maps anymore. Everyone on our server except for about 40 people who keep persisting have given up.

3 supply camps…. 3 supply camps is all we have through all wvw maps?

The ladder is here for that… we are only at the beginning. The Glicko system is designed to quickly balance level differences.

The case of Arborstone is a bit special, it’s a server that was added 4 days after the release by ANet, and a super famous french guild alliance decided to switch to it.
So they didn’t have the same amount of points during the “warmup” period with 1 day matchups.
That explains the early low rating of the server, and why they began at the bottom of the ladder. But AS is now on its way to the top by crushing his opponents.

So when you won last week against Augury Rock thanks to nightcapping, it was fine.
Now that you are losing, it’s unfair ?

Logic level : Desolation -_-

I see that going forward these forums will be filled with us (Desolation) whining about the oppositions cheap tactics when we are losing and praising our superior tactics when we are winning (even if they are the same tactics!).

If we (des) want to really compete then we need alliances and our own nightshift. We have no alliances, we have very little tactics, no one cares to defend supply lines or establish defensible footholds and ironically we dominated on the nightshift last week against augary and gunnars so we had night players only a week ago, they maybe just cant compete with better nightshift players from other servers.

Currently we are only ranked high due to our zerg, that wont last, we either sink to the true mid level place our tactics merits or we up our game and try to attract others to the server.

1st thing required is a stop on free transfers though, without that we’ll never get a true picture, and without that I personally cba to waste my time in wvw.

Those last two weeks we have seen Desolation trusting the first place of 2nd division thanks to nightcapping, we read a lot of arrogance about their superior organisation but now they are losing at night against Arborstone and can only rely on prime time fights to earn points it looks like they can’t even compete against AR.

Fingolfin.3018:

So when you won last week against Augury Rock thanks to nightcapping, it was fine.
Now that you are losing, it’s unfair ?

Logic level : Desolation -_-

I don’t remember us attacking any of the servers in their spawn and owning more than 95% of all the maps, so I have no clue what the hell you are talking about…..

You may not remember because this was a long time ago, last week.

AlienMagi.7102:

Fingolfin.3018:

So when you won last week against Augury Rock thanks to nightcapping, it was fine.
Now that you are losing, it’s unfair ?

Logic level : Desolation -_-

I don’t remember us attacking any of the servers in their spawn and owning more than 95% of all the maps, so I have no clue what the hell you are talking about…..

we had 95%+ every morning last week, we don’t have a lot of daytime players though it seems so this was always followed by a gradual loss of around 2/3 of the maps during the day

i’m from AS. Yesterday i was speaking to one of our night team member. He told me that most of the time they take keep with 5 people. And btw, their not canadian.
5 people, what a huge zerg .

Anyway, in prime time, we are always winning, so sure, the night capping give us a huge amount of point, but deso/AR would loose anyway .

Oh, and i forget to mention: if you guys (especially desolation), want to win anything, start by get some lvl and stuff. Your pick-up zerg just die instantly to any kind of impact.

Look at this and tell me it’s normal

Yes it’s normal, we start the 1week match up at the 14/16 rank.. because we don’t care about the 24h matchup, so unfortunately we don’t start against serv with our lvl.

Next week if we have enought point we go to fight against VS, if not the past one more week in T2..

24h and 1week match up is here to try to make balanced battle, it’s normal if you fight against more powerfull or powerless serveur that our in this time. After when the 2week match up start, no.

Oh, and i forget to mention: if you guys (especially desolation), want to win anything, start by get some lvl and stuff. Your pick-up zerg just die instantly to any kind of impact.

PU is the same everywhere, desolation pu isn’t more bad that our. Desolation lack of WvW focused guild, IRON is pretty good and take initiative, but, IRON only can make all the job.

There are no queues to any of the wvw maps anymore. Everyone on our server except for about 40 people who keep persisting have given up.

Problem is, when deso win they have queues, when they lose not ( in 1 week difference )… so that means one thing… many ppl on deso are here only to play if the serv win and don’t care or leave at the first difficulty… AS nightcamper isn’t the problem, some of your player are :/

I’m totally understand the situation isn’t fun desolation atm, but we try to make the maximum point this week for close the gap btw our and the 3. Why chance next week we are against VS.

Jomg.9061:

Oh, and i forget to mention: if you guys (especially desolation), want to win anything, start by get some lvl and stuff. Your pick-up zerg just die instantly to any kind of impact.

Yeah, it’s not like having +150 all stats, 15% more HP and I don’t know how much bonus crit damage helps at all. Our mighty 33% more karma will rule the battlefield!