Guild Wars 2

My Comparison of Downed skills
I thought I’ll make a comparative post about the downed skills of all professions and see, what you guys think of that. Don’t forget that’s no science here, only my impression from a WvW standpoint. I ordered from strongest to weakest. Double/tripple ranks are intentional. I couldn’t really deside here, for it often relies on the situation.

Rank 1: Elementalist

1. Discharge Lightning: Decent #1 skill.
2. Vapor Form: Unique transformation skill, that makes the ele evede attacks.
3. Grasping Earth: Decent dmg skill.
   —> conclusion: A strong and reliable downed skill set, especially if close to friendly fortification. #2 is a guarantued stomp interrupt and can be used to move to save location, if close enough. #3 is mostly less effective and in comparison a weak follow up.

Rank 1: Thief

1. A) Trail of Knives: Strong #1 skill.
2. B) Venomous Knife: Strong #1 stealth skill.
3. Shadow Escape: Teleport, location can be chosen.
4. Smoke Bomb: Stealth skill.
   —> conclusion: A strong and reliable downed skill set. #1 deals some good dmg and is usefully in close fights. #2 is an almost garantued interrupt that can only be countered by teleport. #3 is a guarantued interrupt and as follow up usefull to delay the stomp.

Rank 3: Mesmer

1. Mind Blast: Strong #1 skill.
2. Deception: Stealth and clones skill. Needs target.
3. Phantasmal Rogue: Summons a phantasmm, causing much dmg.
   —> conclusion: A good downed skill set, especially in small scale battles. #2 is an almost guarantued stomp interrupt but can be countered by stealth. #3 is a strong follow up in close fights.

Rank 4: Ranger

1. Throw Dirt: Decent #1 skill.
2. Thunderclap: AoE interrupt on target. Long Cast time.
3. Lick Wounds: Downed heal skill. Quick healing.
   —> conclusion: A good downed skill set especially in smal scale fights. #2 interrupt can but be countered by stability or stealth. If the ranger get’s to use #3, he can resurect himself very quickly, even if under attack. Especially strong in 1v1 fights and against npcs.

Rank 4: Warrior

1. Throw Rock: Decent #1 skill.
2. Hammer Toss: Single target interrupt. Long Cast time.
3. Vengeance: Strong, especially when traited.
   —> conclusion: Good downed skill in small scale fights. Interrupt can only target one player and can be easily countered by blind, stealth and stability. #3 is strong though and especially in smal scale fights can turn the tide of a battle.

rank 4: Guardian

1. Wrath: Decent #1 skill.
2. Wave of Light: Pushes up to 5 palyers away from you. Quick cast time.
3. Symbol of Judgment: Decent healing, dmg seams weak.
   —> conclusion: Decent downed skills in Zerg and small scale fights. Initial stomp can but be guarantued by several professions via stability or blind. #3 follow up is a nice healing, that can be helpfull in close fights.

Rank 7: Necromancer

1. Life Leech: Strong #1 skill.
2. Fear: Single target fear.
3. Fetid Ground: AoE skill with nice dmg.
   —> conclusion: A weak downed skill set. #2 can but be countered by stealth, stability and blind. #3 can be in close battles a usefull follow up.

rank 8: Engineer

1. Throw Junk: Nice #1 skill. I like it.
2. Grappling Line: Single target interrupt.
3. Booby Trap: Pushes up to 5 palyers away from you.
   —> conclusion: One of the weakest downed skill sets. Single target interrupt, that even pulls your foe, what I find unpractical. Can easily be coutnered by stability, stealth or blindness. #3 is another interrupt, that can be coutnered by stability or blind.

There is a big imballance in downed skills. First and most important is the stomp itnerrupt. Here the elementalist and thief have the upper hand, closely followed by Mesmer. Ele has a allways guaranteed stomp interrupt and a good chance to flee to safety. Thief and Mesmer have a close to allways guaranteed stomp interrupt with decent follow up skills.

All other professions can be finished very quickly. Some of them have, to balance things out, a strong #3 follow up. Warrior and Ranger are the strongest here imho. Ranger can heal himslef very quickly via pet and Warrior can stand up and run to tower, wher he could be rezed (so he doesn’t need to walk back from spawn) or even finish a downed player or kill a nps to rally (even untraited there is a rally chance). The warrior might be the strongest profession when it comes to a battle between 2 downed players. Also the guardian heal symbol is not to underestimate.

That leaves us with necromancer and engeneer. Necromancer, due to #1 life drain and #2 fear (that can be traited to deal dmg) is still accaptable, for it fears your enemy away from you and can even bring him down. However, the engeneer has it very bad, once downed. #2 and #3 are 2 very unreliable interrupts and leave the engeneer mostly finished more often, then the other professions once he is downed.

You’ve listed the wrong #1 and 2 skills for the engineer. Also to note, the ranger’s pet abilities can still be activated while downed if it is off cooldown. e.g. if we can switch to our Wolf we also get a single target knockdown and an aoe fear.

I would rank warrior far lower. Despite their #3 skill being strong their #2 is nearly as weak as the eng downed 2. This means they are hardly ever able to get off their #3.

I agree that there is a massive imbalance with these downed stats though. I can’t fathom why after a year they haven’t been balanced. It’s only 3 skills after all.

elementalist vaporform still desperately needs that nerf preventing them from entering WvW portals, literally no other profession can do this that has mobility downed skills.

I would rate the warriors significantly lower than that. While vengence is good in therory in reality you will almost never get to use it outside of PVE or a 1v1 situation where you both go down togeather. The CD on vengence is long enough that if your foe starts the stomp withen about 2 seconds, even perfectly timeing hammer throw to interupt the first stomp will still see the second stomp land before vengence can be activated. In WvW any fight larger than 1v1 or perhaps a 2v2 you will be either stomped or burnt down before the CD comes up. That and unless you trait it even if you get it off AND manage to kill your foe theres a good chance you’ll just fall over dead right after. Its utility is often limited to being a much kitten version of the elementalist 2 skill, non instant activation and full defeated escape to tower skill.

Taking WvW into account, yes, Ele wins by far.
Too bad GW2 is not only focused on WvW. In PvE, Elementalists downed skills are really bad, completely outshined by Mesmers and Warriors (whose #3 skills almost guarantee a rally if there are any weak opponents around). Thief in PvE is TERRIBLE when downed, #1 deals close to no damage, #2 and #3 do pretty much nothing.
In PvP, staying alive 3 seconds longer thanks to Ele #2 is pretty much useless, while Guardians, Necros and Engis can push your foe away from the point for a few seconds.
And I did not mention the “war of downed” players: if, during a duel, two players are downed at the same time, the player who will most likely win will be:

1) Warrior (through vengeance)
2) Ranger (the pet will keep dealing damage to the other downed player and could easily rez him)
3) Mesmer (clones/phantasms will keep dealing damage; #2 creates a clone which causes confusion on the other downed player on top of the confusion you apply with #1; #3 deals a lot of damage).

All in all, every class has its pros and its cons when talking about downed skills and are pretty much balanced around those. Some classes are more effective than others when it comes to some situations of course.

hihey.1075:

In PvE, Elementalists downed skills are really bad, completely outshined by Mesmers and Warriors (whose #3 skills almost guarantee a rally if there are any weak opponents around).

unless traited warrior 3 is no where close to a guaranteed rally. Its completely random. I’ve had vengences where 1 kill saved my kitten and others where i finished off 5 weak targets and still died. Its a hail marry skill. If you cant rally off the 1 skill and your down to the last 5% of your downed hp you’ve got nothing to loose but dont expect it to actualy acomplish anything other than 1 more loot. If I dont have that trait I never use vengence on my warrior untill death is already garenteed as its safer to try for the rally untill that point..

My order is slightly different:
1. ele
2. thief
3. mesmer
4. guardian
5. ranger
6. necro
7. warrior
8. engi

This is on land, underwater ranger is clearly superior.

Underwater: Ranger > Every other class.

2 of ele that you listed is wrong. vapour form evades all attacks and is not immune to CCs.

sinject.4607:

elementalist vaporform still desperately needs that nerf preventing them from entering WvW portals, literally no other profession can do this that has mobility downed skills.

I just posted about this, but I will reply to you too. Vapor form is vulnerable to CCs. You should play the class first and learn about it’s weaknesses before complaining about it being “OP”

Engi has the worst downed skill set.
Pull would be nice, but it should be push not pull. In combat if something will move me and I see Finish Him I will do it.

1. is on a long CD and i was never able to use it, there was no time.

Guardian is only good when you trait for the symbol but usually you’ll be dead before you can use it. If a guardian goes down people tend to throw blinds and give out stability immediately.

Caliban.3176:

Guardian is only good when you trait for the symbol but usually you’ll be dead before you can use it. If a guardian goes down people tend to throw blinds and give out stability immediately.

Blinds and stability stop a lot of the downed states. IMO that’s a GOOD thing. There should be a counter to each them. At the same time it should be as easy to stop as it is with war/eng though.

Aberrant.6749:

Caliban.3176:

Guardian is only good when you trait for the symbol but usually you’ll be dead before you can use it. If a guardian goes down people tend to throw blinds and give out stability immediately.

Blinds and stability stop a lot of the downed states. IMO that’s a GOOD thing. There should be a counter to each them. At the same time it should be as easy to stop as it is with war/eng though.

I don’t disagree, I just think that the OP thinks as bit too much of the Guardian downed state if he ranks it with Ranger and Warrior. I don’t think downed state matters that much however, it’s more important to just not get downed in the first place.

Caliban.3176:

Aberrant.6749:

Caliban.3176:

Guardian is only good when you trait for the symbol but usually you’ll be dead before you can use it. If a guardian goes down people tend to throw blinds and give out stability immediately.

Blinds and stability stop a lot of the downed states. IMO that’s a GOOD thing. There should be a counter to each them. At the same time it should be as easy to stop as it is with war/eng though.

I don’t disagree, I just think that the OP thinks as bit too much of the Guardian downed state if he ranks it with Ranger and Warrior. I don’t think downed state matters that much however, it’s more important to just not get downed in the first place.

I would place it far above warrior’s downed. I don’t know how many classes you’ve plaid in WvW, but I would take guards downed > wars downed every day of the week. 5 person knockback Vs. 1 knockdown with a longer cast. The 3 skill on guard is pretty strong as well, but the most important thing is stopping that first stomp.

It does matter since one of the classes can avoid a stomp 100% of the time, others can avoid one the majority of the time, while others get killed on the first stomp the majority of the time. That can buy you or your team valuable time while they are trying to finish you off and/or give you a better chance of being revived.

While it isn’t as important as the skills when you’re not down… there aren’t that many skills involved while downed and there is no logical reason for this to not be more balanced.

Of course we all will have a personal different list of skills. But I agree that under Water ranger is the strongest. You can not stomp an opponent under water and therefore the healing of #3 outshines everything else.

About Ele #2: I have an elementalist, but play him rarely and he is still at lvl 55 or smth. However, as far as my experience goes, you can CC an ele before he uses vapor form. But how CC someone, who evades all attacks. And still, it is a guaranteed stomp interrupt, no matter what, making me rank Ele in WvW still on top of the list.

That beeing sad I do not wish for an Ele vapor form nerf atm. The most pressing issue would be to bring engeneers (no I don’t have a engeneer in WvW, my engi is lvl 13 and I use her almost never^^) on an equal footing with the other professions. Even Necromancer downed skills are way stronger than engeneer, although I list both at the bottom of the list.

EDIT: I corrected some information in the OP, due to hints by Seigfried.5938 and Buddy.7563.