Guild Wars 2

Ruins are poorly implemented. A grouping of 5 points for parties to endlessly capture and recapture with no rewards is pointless. Likewise the bonus for doing this is misplaced.

Ruins are a mini-game within the larger WvW game. They will not and can not alter the balance of the game the way they are currently implemented. This is because …

A) Ruins provide rewards to those already in control.

B) There is ZERO INCENTIVE for any opposing faction to claim these points.

The way Bloodlust and Ruins currently work favors the winning server.

That’s wrong. I’ll say that again, it’s WRONG.

Here’s my solution to Ruins and Bloodlust.

1) Ruins award karma, gold and experiece…..on a small scale due to their high turnover nature. This scale should be representative of what someone could expect to reach following a zerg around the map capturing points. It’s not difficult math for Anet to pull off, they should already be tracking this kind of thing all the time.

You capture a Ruin, you get X exp, X karma, X gold, every time, the aggregate amount would roughly equal the time spent following a zerg. Plain and simple. The reasoning for this is that the people following the ruin battles are not the same people following the zerg battles. These are people interested in small scale combat, but still want to be part of a large scale battle with consequences.

2) Bloodlust should apply to the lowest ranked server in the contest. The winning server doesn’t need buffs, OBVIOUSLY. They’ve already earned top spot.

Instead Bloodlust applies to the lowest ranked server, to get them back into the fight. For the mid ranked server, they can earn a single stack of Bloodlust. The top ranked server get nothing, BECAUSE THEY DON’T NEED IT.

This gives the servers that aren’t winning incentive to fight for the Ruins, incentive for the servers that are winning to defend the Ruins and a reason for everyone to get involved.

Leading servers will send parties in order to defend their lead and lagging servers will send parties to gain an advantage against their foe. It creates combat, strategy, and fun. It makes it worthwhile for people only interested in small scale PvP to look at WvW and still earn something.

In short, it makes WvW available to everyone. It’s a Win Win strategy and it should be implemented immediately.

My ideas:

- Increase the timer to get the buff to 5 minutes instead of 2, keep starting the counter at 3 ruins.
- Orb buff lasts for 15 minutes while holding 2 or more ruins, then its gone unless 3 or more ruins are held, if so the 15 minutes timer resets. If one or zero ruins are owned, the Orb is gone aswell after 5 minutes of the 15 have expired.
- Get rid of auto-decap and increase the time it takes to decap a point.
- Introduce (small) rewards for capping the points

Oxe.6142:

B) There is ZERO INCENTIVE for any opposing faction to claim these points.

I agree with that, and told my guild that right away. If you are smart you will not worry about obtaining the bonus. If you have it then yes stomp for ppt. Wasting time obtaining it as a large organized group, is just pointless. The buff from your current map adds hardly enough advantage to merit the time used to obtain it. Also if you have people to spare to get the buff, then you probably already have the advantage.

Everyone has realized the the buff was a silly ploy to exaggerate the already large discrepancy in matches and cause guilds to transfer for the upcoming leagues. I hope they get enough gem purchases, and will rethink this poor addition to WvW. At the current rate, there will be hardly enough competition left to have a second league season. We will be left with SoR, JQ, and BG as the only 3 that will even be participating.

I think one of the best things that can happen, whether they remove bloodlust or not, would be to lock trasfers to the top ranking WvW servers. Also provide free transfers to the bottom ranked servers. That way the imbalance does not become worse, and it provides a fair way to keep things balanced.

The ruins are places designed for players who don’t care about rewards too much, and who are looking for like-minded and challenging small scale fights. If you want rewards, you capture structures and kill dolyaks and sentries. Please don’t try to change everything to suit your personal demands — it’s just not for you if you don’t like it yet.

maeggle.6021:

The ruins are places designed for players who don’t care about rewards too much, and who are looking for like-minded and challenging small scale fights. If you want rewards, you capture structures and kill dolyaks and sentries. Please don’t try to change everything to suit your personal demands — it’s just not for you if you don’t like it yet.

Then go sPvP, or ask them to add an sPvP mode where you are not bound to the current restrictions of that system. Do not however try to bring your sPvP kitten into the middle of WvW.

nielscase.6258:

Then go sPvP, or ask them to add an sPvP mode where you are not bound to the current restrictions of that system. Do not however try to bring your sPvP kitten into the middle of WvW.

What has my post to do with sPvP? /shrug
Most of the guys I meet in ruins enjoy the fights there for the sake of fighting, and also being able to contribute to their realm’s performance in a way that is fun for them (solo and small scale pvp). There just is no need for extra incentives.

So, which commander would order to cap those new ruins of yours?
Yeah I thought so. You’re introducing PVE content.

Stop with the economical buff suggestions. They are objectively dumb.

nielscase.6258:

maeggle.6021:

The ruins are places designed for players who don’t care about rewards too much, and who are looking for like-minded and challenging small scale fights. If you want rewards, you capture structures and kill dolyaks and sentries. Please don’t try to change everything to suit your personal demands — it’s just not for you if you don’t like it yet.

Then go sPvP, or ask them to add an sPvP mode where you are not bound to the current restrictions of that system. Do not however try to bring your sPvP kitten into the middle of WvW.

I love this argument, absolutely no backing or facts to prove it yet gets thrown around every day here. Might as well say towers and keeps have circles too therefore they belong in sPvP or everyone is upleveled to Level 80 which happens in sPvP too so let’s get rid of that..

i think i have better idea from karma/ expl rewards on players because of farming exploit possibility

these ruin captures should affect only npcs ingame so they can be the starting point for a success capture or defend.

garrison has 2 top ruins near it .

if defenders control the 1 or the 2 ruins in the top garrison will have more powerful canons / oils ( structure siege ) / guards /npcs (not the players sieges) . if they have 2 of 2 top ruins the garrison will have much hp / toughness canons / oils ( structure siege ) / guards /npcs. (not the players sieges).

so the attackers must control the two top ruins with two different parties while they are attacking and defenders have a change to brake or a change for better defense against enemy’s attack ( special if the attackers bring a big zerg and thay have small group ) to stop them by fighting side by side with ally npc.

the same for left and right towers of garrison .

now the left and right keeps .

these two keeps have 1 ruin near them and one ruin shared in the south . the south ruins should be a baladeur when defenders loose it the two keeps npcs/keeps sieges hp/toughness (not the players sieges) will loose the hp /defend increase and if they loose the near them ruin the npc / sieges will loose the attack buff

these two buffs ( might and defend ) should be have a decay time when ruin change side of a small time 2 – 5 minutes, so the defenders should have some time to check what is happening.

ofc these buffs will not like supervisors buffs where nobody can attack it but increase of stats like the current bloodlust buff stats , but seprated in might and to defend buff

also the capture of a ruin should give some wxp , not much but some

this way

1. a zerg or a skilled guild team can still avoid or ignore to capture these ruins ( for no alert the defenders ) but defenders have an extra weapon against zergs or they win some time for better organize of the defending.

and

2. ofc nobody will say that the other side won because they have better stats

and

3. ofc gvg will remain UN-affected.

Corrections of existing system

1. the capture of ruins should not have auto decay time . they should be like spvp capture points . you capture it and it is yours until someone else captures it

2. eternal’s npc/sieges should no affect at all from this buff.eternal was the favorite map for all because it is small and funny . the problem was the big / boring servers borderlands

p.s. sorry for my English , it is not my nature language

maeggle.6021:

The ruins are places designed for players who don’t care about rewards too much, and who are looking for like-minded and challenging small scale fights. If you want rewards, you capture structures and kill dolyaks and sentries. Please don’t try to change everything to suit your personal demands — it’s just not for you if you don’t like it yet.

I haven’t met a player that doesn’t care about rewards. They don’t exist. If you’re claiming to be the first, I’ll ask you if you ever spend gold or karma. The obvious answer is yes, you do, just like everyone else. People spending time and effort in the ruins are playing the game, just like anyone else and they are just as entitled to the same rewards. They should get them.

Oxe.6142:

If you’re claiming to be the first, I’ll ask you if you ever spend gold or karma. The obvious answer is yes, you do, just like everyone else. People spending time and effort in the ruins are playing the game, just like anyone else and they are just as entitled to the same rewards. They should get them.

Of course I like me some shinies. When I run around in the middle of the map though, I know that I don’t get any stuff from it other than some loot bags and wxp from kills, and this is totally fine. Nice fights are the reward which pay me for being there. If I want / need gold, there are easier and faster ways than WvW; at least my repair bills are covered by loot bags.

maeggle.6021:

Oxe.6142:

If you’re claiming to be the first, I’ll ask you if you ever spend gold or karma. The obvious answer is yes, you do, just like everyone else. People spending time and effort in the ruins are playing the game, just like anyone else and they are just as entitled to the same rewards. They should get them.

Of course I like me some shinies. When I run around in the middle of the map though, I know that I don’t get any stuff from it other than some loot bags and wxp from kills, and this is totally fine. Nice fights are the reward which pay me for being there. If I want / need gold, there are easier and faster ways than WvW; at least my repair bills are covered by loot bags.

Simply killing other players in WvW isn’t profitable. Not to mention that the circle of ruins fails to draw in sufficient numbers to even make it worthwhile PvP. It’s a waste, boring and pointless due to lack of rewarding play.

nielscase.6258:

maeggle.6021:

The ruins are places designed for players who don’t care about rewards too much, and who are looking for like-minded and challenging small scale fights. If you want rewards, you capture structures and kill dolyaks and sentries. Please don’t try to change everything to suit your personal demands — it’s just not for you if you don’t like it yet.

Then go sPvP, or ask them to add an sPvP mode where you are not bound to the current restrictions of that system. Do not however try to bring your sPvP kitten into the middle of WvW.

Oh we have asked, but they don’t listen. Apparently they rather brought our sPvP into the middle of WvW. We do not try to bring anything, ANet already did.

And I really hope they will never, ever add any “phat” rewards for Bloodlust area. Stay away from my small-time PvP area you dirty zergers!

Oxe.6142:

maeggle.6021:

Oxe.6142:

If you’re claiming to be the first, I’ll ask you if you ever spend gold or karma. The obvious answer is yes, you do, just like everyone else. People spending time and effort in the ruins are playing the game, just like anyone else and they are just as entitled to the same rewards. They should get them.

Of course I like me some shinies. When I run around in the middle of the map though, I know that I don’t get any stuff from it other than some loot bags and wxp from kills, and this is totally fine. Nice fights are the reward which pay me for being there. If I want / need gold, there are easier and faster ways than WvW; at least my repair bills are covered by loot bags.

Simply killing other players in WvW isn’t profitable. Not to mention that the circle of ruins fails to draw in sufficient numbers to even make it worthwhile PvP. It’s a waste, boring and pointless due to lack of rewarding play.

And it’s exactly as it should be. The rewards are the awesome small 1v1/2v2/1v2 or similar fights and the thrill that comes with it. Running with the zerg will never be as satisfying.

Reborn.2934:

i think i have better idea from karma/ expl rewards on players because of farming exploit possibility

these ruin captures should affect only npcs ingame so they can be the starting point for a success capture or defend.

garrison has 2 top ruins near it .

if defenders control the 1 or the 2 ruins in the top garrison will have more powerful canons / oils ( structure siege ) / guards /npcs (not the players sieges) . if they have 2 of 2 top ruins the garrison will have much hp / toughness canons / oils ( structure siege ) / guards /npcs. (not the players sieges).

so the attackers must control the two top ruins with two different parties while they are attacking and defenders have a change to brake or a change for better defense against enemy’s attack ( special if the attackers bring a big zerg and thay have small group ) to stop them by fighting side by side with ally npc.

the same for left and right towers of garrison .

now the left and right keeps .

these two keeps have 1 ruin near them and one ruin shared in the south . the south ruins should be a baladeur when defenders loose it the two keeps npcs/keeps sieges hp/toughness (not the players sieges) will loose the hp /defend increase and if they loose the near them ruin the npc / sieges will loose the attack buff

these two buffs ( might and defend ) should be have a decay time when ruin change side of a small time 2 – 5 minutes, so the defenders should have some time to check what is happening.

ofc these buffs will not like supervisors buffs where nobody can attack it but increase of stats like the current bloodlust buff stats , but seprated in might and to defend buff

also the capture of a ruin should give some wxp , not much but some

this way

1. a zerg or a skilled guild team can still avoid or ignore to capture these ruins ( for no alert the defenders ) but defenders have an extra weapon against zergs or they win some time for better organize of the defending.

and

2. ofc nobody will say that the other side won because they have better stats

and

3. ofc gvg will remain UN-affected.

Corrections of existing system

1. the capture of ruins should not have auto decay time . they should be like spvp capture points . you capture it and it is yours until someone else captures it

2. eternal’s npc/sieges should no affect at all from this buff.eternal was the favorite map for all because it is small and funny . the problem was the big / boring servers borderlands

p.s. sorry for my English , it is not my nature language

^This

Even though it’ll change WvW completely, it’ll add some new dynamics to the game and it’ll force keep/towerhuggers to come outside and play. It’ll make WvW packed with action again and we can still keep our precious GvG. Ah well, we can all theorycraft about a better future, we just need Anet to listen.

Oxe.6142:

A) Ruins provide rewards to those already in control.

Bullkitten. I know for a fact this is not the truth. Ruins provide the buff to whomever captures them. In my match up I frequently see the server with the highest PPT with no buff, or only one buff. I sometimes see it with three, but I very often will see it spread across multiple servers and quite often it’s the lower PPT server with it.

This is a bullkitten argument and people are spouting lies when they state this as an established fact.

Oxe.6142:

B) There is ZERO INCENTIVE for any opposing faction to claim these points.

So the buff is too OP but there is no incentive for an opposing faction to strip the enemy of an OP buff and acquire it for themselves?

People said Tequatl couldn’t be defeated and there are servers that are full that can’t get him below 90% even now. There are other servers that are killing him in in seven minutes. Maybe if players organised and had small teams committed to capping the ruins (in addition to other smaller objectives on the map) and adjusting their play and strategy to the new mechanic instead of writing a bible of complaints about the buff when they clearly haven’t given a reasonable amount of time to adjust to the meta and try to figure out how to work with it, we might not have the problems we have.

My current match is a blow out yet despite that the buff is being shared around fairly evenly. Most of the time, anyone who wants the buff is free to obtain it with one or two friends. I can accept that not all tiers will be the same (I’m currently “tier 3” although last week wasn’t much different from this week). Maybe you need to learn to play instead of post nonsense about how the buff unquestioningly favours the strongest server.

Well people always find a way to blame unrelated stuff about their own incompetence.

Shiren.9532:

Oxe.6142:

A) Ruins provide rewards to those already in control.

Bullkitten. I know for a fact this is not the truth. Ruins provide the buff to whomever captures them. In my match up I frequently see the server with the highest PPT with no buff, or only one buff. I sometimes see it with three, but I very often will see it spread across multiple servers and quite often it’s the lower PPT server with it.

This is a bullkitten argument and people are spouting lies when they state this as an established fact.

Oxe.6142:

B) There is ZERO INCENTIVE for any opposing faction to claim these points.

So the buff is too OP but there is no incentive for an opposing faction to strip the enemy of an OP buff and acquire it for themselves?

People said Tequatl couldn’t be defeated and there are servers that are full that can’t get him below 90% even now. There are other servers that are killing him in in seven minutes. Maybe if players organised and had small teams committed to capping the ruins (in addition to other smaller objectives on the map) and adjusting their play and strategy to the new mechanic instead of writing a bible of complaints about the buff when they clearly haven’t given a reasonable amount of time to adjust to the meta and try to figure out how to work with it, we might not have the problems we have.

My current match is a blow out yet despite that the buff is being shared around fairly evenly. Most of the time, anyone who wants the buff is free to obtain it with one or two friends. I can accept that not all tiers will be the same (I’m currently “tier 3” although last week wasn’t much different from this week). Maybe you need to learn to play instead of post nonsense about how the buff unquestioningly favours the strongest server.

Totally agreed. I think Anet must stick this answer.

Finally someone with common sense!!
This update was the best thing that ever happened to WvWvW since launch!
It gives small groups and roamers not only a fun place to fight, but also a really good way to contribute to the overall score. If you decide to not get the buff and your server is getting stomped you deserve it. I play on SoR and Black Gate managed to keep up with us, despite our superior control of the structures, because they managed the buffs better.
The only problem i see with the buff is that the stat part is putting off GvGs. I don’t do GvGs but without the stats they would be contributing instead of being put off.