Guild Wars 2

Yza.2437:

You guys still didn’t roll thieves? 0.0

My first character was a thief and I learned a lot.

I stopped playing her after I rolled my warrior and haven’t looked back.

CreativeAnarchy.6324:

Yza.2437:

You guys still didn’t roll thieves? 0.0

My first character was a thief and I learned a lot.

I stopped playing her after I rolled my warrior and haven’t looked back.

What? You enjoy a challenge and don’t want your class to carry you? Shocking.

Remove Stealth. Add reliable healing. This game will become interesting.

Jabberwock.9014:

For god sake, thieves should not be able to spam perma-stealth with this easy as pie black powder heart seeker combo. Not only can they stealth with it, but it is extremely hard to interrupt because the kitten field blinds you too (and they’ll probably just stun-break or shadowstep away even if you do). Even if you manage to get them on low initiative or health for half a second they can just use their heal or utility to stealth until both regen (which takes no time at all). Throw 2 thieves in the mix and you have an unkillable duo since they can further stealth eachother with shadow refuge and smoke fields even when one has it on cooldown/has low initiative respectively. Maybe if thief was properly designed to be ineffective with low initiative there would be no problem, but because their dagger autoattack is supremely effective (especially when stealthed) there is absolutely no disincentive to blow initiative on stealthing at every possible opportunity.

In sPvP it may be fine because you can’t take objectives while stealthed, but in WvW skirmishes this is beyond broken.

I luv playing a thief as I’m not that great with them get killed all the time in WVW but I REALLY appreciate you bringing this D/P deal up as I will be praticing these new tactics you thief haters have explained to me. Be seeing you in WVW hopefully you want be seeing me *_*This topic was so much more info’d than any thief guide on setting my traits & gameplay thxs again & Happy Hunting

innocent ouarior.1954:

Remove Stealth. Add reliable healing. This game will become interesting.

+1. Stealth equals invincibility. I got glad with beastcleave back in my wow days, so I know what im talking about. It’s completely imbalanced when I pop every cd and the thief just stealths and waits in out. It’s sooo broken that some classes can use their cooldowns situationally.

But really the only complaint that can be made is you’re upset you can’t kill a thief if they use everything to run away from you, which I’m pretty sure dd eles can do too.

Mordecai.6318:

Never have I seen a community complain about something so much. My god, this combo has an infinite amount of counters that multiple people have listed throughout this thread. Clearly this is everyone’s first MMO and first experience with a stealth mechanic because thieves are easily countered by every class.

This combo does not have infinite counters… in fact it has very few and even fewer are reliable. Any decent thief executing this combo will present an extremely difficult target to kill. They often trade DPS to execute this so most are less dangerous than other builds. However frequently 2+ thieves can make a devastating team with one generating smoke fields and both using them. One is the stealther and the other the hammer with everyone looking like a nail.

I primary a thief and don’t use this partially because it really does feel and play like a broken combo. I define broken as any ability/combo that is extremely powerful, easy to execute, can be repeated relatively quickly and has few or no substantial downsides.

Thieves are not all that strong in my opinion, though they excel at taking down multiple opponents depending how bad they are and how good the thief is. In zergfights they are not all that useful. Permastealth is stupid though, and perhaps they should just get rid of the entire iniative mechanic so such things are impossible and there will be consequences to missing certain abilities. However, if they do this thieves will certainly need buffs in some other areas.

Loi.5401:

Stealth equals invincibility.

This is what most new/bad players seem to think. He stealthed, what do?!

Terrahero.9358:

Thesilentflute.8761:

lol if you guys really have this much trouble with them carry a reveal trap with you and its game over for any thief but from some of the stuff i see here though that may not even help you lol.

Listen to this guy. Top advice.

In order to beat a Thief you need to buy a Stealth Trap for 15 badges and carry around 10 supply. If you run into a Thief you need to then spend 4seconds placing the trap. Using up that 10supply.

This next part is really important.

PRAY the Thief is actually stupid enough to walk into the fairly small range at which the trap triggers.
Well, now he has Revealed for 30seconds so he’ll just run away. He’ll be back shortly however… So, yah.

And there you have it, as you can see Thieves are perfectly balanced as there are totally, perfectly reasonable, counters.

LOL you guys are such weiners I said if you are not able to kill one yourself lol. My main is a ranger and you know who loves to kill rangers…. that’s right thieves, but ill smash a thief one on one cause they are so squishy and maybe cause I also play one.
Like i said above most abilities will smash a thief and they have no stability. About the trap you should always have at least 10 supply and if he is going to kill you if you don’t use it well you better then and you don’t have to worry about missing they will come to you. lol S o y e a l i k e I s a i d a l l y o u h a v e t o d o i s p l a y b e t t e r !

Aberrant.6749:

Loi.5401:

Stealth equals invincibility.

This is what most new/bad players seem to think. He stealthed, what do?!

Thieves are fine. Stealth isnt for anyone, anytime.
Any game designer with half a brain wouldnt allow stealth in a PvP game.

The complainers in this thread must be new to MMO PvP. My rogue in WoW could not only permastealth without having to execute a combo several times perfectly, but also stun lock the other player when I jumped them. Have you also not seen torch mesmers?

innocent ouarior.1954:

Aberrant.6749:

Loi.5401:

Stealth equals invincibility.

This is what most new/bad players seem to think. He stealthed, what do?!

Thieves are fine. Stealth isnt for anyone, anytime.
Any game designer with half a brain wouldnt allow stealth in a PvP game.

Oh you are a game designer? Please list your portfolio so we can read about all the accolades you have received for the amazing multi-million dollar games you have created. Blizzard, EA/Bioware and ANet have all made games with stealth classes, however you insinuate that they have no brains. Sounds like someone isn’t Mensa material.

World of Warcraft never was PvP oriented, SWtOR wasnt neither (and was such a failure that I dont think you want to compare it to antything), Bioware didnt develloped WAR, Anet did GuildWars 1 and 2. Both are PvP oriented, GW1 didnt have stealth.

Anet tried, with some success, to go away from many classic MMO features. Some are a success, some are a major flaw. Stealth in general, and Thieves’s stealth even more, is a design mistake (like healing scale is, like rally is…)

krlosis.2653:

The complainers in this thread must be new to MMO PvP. My rogue in WoW could not only permastealth without having to execute a combo several times perfectly, but also stun lock the other player when I jumped them. Have you also not seen torch mesmers?

Stealth in WoW also broke on damage. Additionally, rogues could not re-stealth in combat nearly as easily/often as thieves in gw2. As far as I know, WoW rogues could only vanish once every 3 minutes or so. Twice every 3 minutes with preparation.

If you really want to make things WoW-like, let’s have thief stealth break on damage.

lol Thief stealth does break on dmg you knob. A thief was one of my 10 80s in wow also trust me thief in wow was 4x stronger not that it even matters.

I never understood why it is called stealth instead of invisibility.

When you are stealthy you use the environment to hide…trees, bushes etc.

When you are on a desert beach with nothing but sand and someone comes out of nowhere and two shots you, that is not coming out of stealth, that is becoming visible from invisibility then facerolling then going back to invisibility.

I know I know…only mages with tears should be able to become invisible but still…why the frak is it called stealth when it clearly is invisibility?

Monsoon.2589:

I never understood why it is called stealth instead of invisibility.

When you are stealthy you use the environment to hide…trees, bushes etc.

When you are on a desert beach with nothing but sand and someone comes out of nowhere and two shots you, that is not coming out of stealth, that is becoming visible from invisibility then facerolling then going back to invisibility.

I know I know…only mages with tears should be able to become invisible but still…why the frak is it called stealth when it clearly is invisibility?

Because that sounds more thief like? It’s just semantics. Don’t let it bother you. Also why in the kitten are you not paying attention to your surroundings and then getting 2 shot? Jump in the water and laugh at them. L2Beach bro.

I am used to play Ele/warrior and guardian in PvE aswell as WvW..

Yet, I started a thief 3 days ago and I have to say.. Thief is kittening easy to kill and “useless” in zergfights. Ofcourse, this depends how skillfull you are.. But u wont see me tanking/fighting long in group/zergfights in WvW with a thief unless I be a coward and use my shortbow from a distance to give Blasts or poison…

Ofcourse there are plenty of people who are skilled enough with the right build who can “support” their zerg and can easily pick off targets one by one..
But from my experience, I die pretty quick because of CC/immo skills being throwed around (since Shadowstep has a limited timer to use) and as far as I know,, thief dont have much stability..
Can kill easier with my full cleric/knight guardian but that’s just my two cents..

Cheers

Mordecai.6318:

Never have I seen a community complain about something so much. My god, this combo has an infinite amount of counters that multiple people have listed throughout this thread. Clearly this is everyone’s first MMO and first experience with a stealth mechanic because thieves are easily countered by every class.

Shut up and learn from your mistakes. The combat in this game is so simplistic compared to basically every MMO ever, yet people want their hands held because being a brainless ham is too easy.

says the thief that cried a couple of months ago about confusion, because he couldnt spam 2222222212222221 yeah sure an entire community needs to learn to play, because u are so awesome and so godlike that u can play any other class and kill any other class with no problems whatsoever.

For everyone complaining about stealth: if you take 10 hours of your time to roll one, you will realize that even though they are invisible, there is 90% chance that the thief will be:
1 – At your back going for a backstab
2 – Inside a red circle getting stealth ( applies to both shadow refuge and black powder )

So if you see a red circle, swing you big sword with your auto attack or whatever close to it, and if you dont see it, circle around yourself swing your sword and blocking / evading.

If you have AoE such as necro or elementalist or engineer, just drop them all around you.

That’s that, you killed the sucker. Not that hard was it?

stealth in this game is broken. normally in every other game, when you go stealth, your speed will be decreased significantly, but in this game, they buffed it…..

I forgot to mention, if you do see a frigging red circle and no enemy around, and just plain stand there not moving at all ( or just moving forward ), them you will get hit by a backstab and may take considerable damage. Just hit you stun breaker utility if that happens and roll and it wont be the end for you.

Of course, if you are running a burst build with no stun breakers, than you just were unlucky he hit you first. Better luck next time.

teonimesic.1403:

For everyone complaining about stealth: if you take 10 hours of your time to roll one, you will realize that even though they are invisible, there is 90% chance that the thief will be:
1 – At your back going for a backstab

Arenanet logic about backstab is: front, rear, up, down, back, left, right.
There is no one actual backstab in this game, thief can BS you no matter the position and always is over 5k+ damage. And if you for the change dodge the burst they will just reset the stealth to RUN LIKE A MOTHA FLFJGK CHICKEN or to retry to BS you again.

incredible that Necro get buffed>nerfed in less than A MONTH due the QQ, but Whole Game complaint about this mechanic for over 11 month and anet just ignored us.

No true, backstabs do deal dmg regardless to position, but they do deal twice as much from the rear and only from the rear. Because of lag, it sometimes gets a little weird, but in my experience it works as intended when there is no lag.

If you took a 5k backstab from the front or the side, you can bet the thief has no toughness and about 11k health pool. Just heal up (you should be able to heal this much), and counter. The thief probably used everything (utilities, initiative) he had trying to go for that backstab, so he should be a reasonably easy target for the next 30 seconds. He will probably hide inside a shadow refuge and then attempt to run away.

If you are a warrior, just stun lock it to death, if you are a necro just drop alot of aoe around you and let the thief kill himself, if you are a mesmer just lock and shatter, if you are a guardian just block/heal, and so on, if you are an elementalist just switch to water and heal it all up, and so on.

I dont play necro, but i really didnt like what they did to the class. I hate when some stupid tournment which very few people are playing suddenly becomes more important than the entire player population. Necros were actually a welcome challenge in sPvP (the same as stun locking warriors right now), and shouldnt have been nerfed this badly.

But one thing doesnt applies to other. Just because a class just got broken from day to night, doest means the same should occur with other classes. If stealth was to be removed, the entire thief class would need to be completely updated so it could actually survive. Have you ever found a really bad thief? I mean, the one that doesnt really stealths and just tries to auto attack you and dies 2 seconds later? Thats what all thief would become without stealth.

Well, not necessarily auto attack you, but spam heartseeker (the leapy thingy) even when you are at full health would be a better example of a really bad thief that doesnt stealths. Still a piece of cake

Funny thing though. People only complain about this in WvW. In sPvP people couldn’t care less, since it’s not that effective. In PvE people want us to chain stealth them with BP + Cluster Bomb in dungeons. Seems like it’s a hate / love scenario…

But as I said earlier, BP + HS shouldn’t stack, at least not in WvW..

a descent player with any class can easily defeat this kind of thief tactics, as long as their patient. standing on Bp removes the ability to spam HS or casting blind so even if their invisible thief cant back stab you.
to tread starter you need to play more WVW

selan.8354:

Mordecai.6318:

Never have I seen a community complain about something so much. My god, this combo has an infinite amount of counters that multiple people have listed throughout this thread. Clearly this is everyone’s first MMO and first experience with a stealth mechanic because thieves are easily countered by every class.

Shut up and learn from your mistakes. The combat in this game is so simplistic compared to basically every MMO ever, yet people want their hands held because being a brainless ham is too easy.

says the thief that cried a couple of months ago about confusion, because he couldnt spam 2222222212222221 yeah sure an entire community needs to learn to play, because u are so awesome and so godlike that u can play any other class and kill any other class with no problems whatsoever.

This always bothered me. Thieves cried and cried over retaliation and confusion, which I never had a problem with even before they were nerfed. Retal and Confusion were never OP. You just had to pay attention and not mindlessly spam skills like the majority of thieves do all the time. But they cried and cried until it was nerfed despite the fact that there were plenty of ways to deal with both. Yeah confusion mesmers and retal guardians were annoying, but killable on any class if you didn’t just mindlessly spam and kill yourself. Yet thieves refuse to accept the fact that stealth, despite having no counters like confusion and retal have, is incredibly op. I wouldn’t care if they permastealthed if there was an active way to counter it that all non stealth classes had access to. And no, other classes shouldn’t have to carry around a trap to remove stealth. Do thieves have to carry around traps to strip boons off of people? Other classes should have traits or utility or weapon skills that can cause reveal.

Nikkinella.8254:

selan.8354:

Mordecai.6318:

Never have I seen a community complain about something so much. My god, this combo has an infinite amount of counters that multiple people have listed throughout this thread. Clearly this is everyone’s first MMO and first experience with a stealth mechanic because thieves are easily countered by every class.

Shut up and learn from your mistakes. The combat in this game is so simplistic compared to basically every MMO ever, yet people want their hands held because being a brainless ham is too easy.

says the thief that cried a couple of months ago about confusion, because he couldnt spam 2222222212222221 yeah sure an entire community needs to learn to play, because u are so awesome and so godlike that u can play any other class and kill any other class with no problems whatsoever.

This always bothered me. Thieves cried and cried over retaliation and confusion, which I never had a problem with even before they were nerfed. Retal and Confusion were never OP. You just had to pay attention and not mindlessly spam skills like the majority of thieves do all the time. But they cried and cried until it was nerfed despite the fact that there were plenty of ways to deal with both. Yeah confusion mesmers and retal guardians were annoying, but killable on any class if you didn’t just mindlessly spam and kill yourself. Yet thieves refuse to accept the fact that stealth, despite having no counters like confusion and retal have, is incredibly op. I wouldn’t care if they permastealthed if there was an active way to counter it that all non stealth classes had access to. And no, other classes shouldn’t have to carry around a trap to remove stealth. Do thieves have to carry around traps to strip boons off of people? Other classes should have traits or utility or weapon skills that can cause reveal.

Like how people kittened about stealth so much that they gave them a direct counter and constant nerf after nerf?

And yet they STILL haven’t fixed stealth. Traps are not a counter for thieves. Stealth is broken, period. Normally in a MMO stealth is permanent until you enter combat, at which point it is dropped. Only in some situations can you restealth during combat, you usually need to break combat to reastealth again. It’s supposed to be as an opening move for assassination attempts. That’s what stealth is. It’s not stealth in this game. It’s invisibility. If a character is stealthed, they should have reduced movement speed since they are sneaking around. And stealth should last until the one using it engages in combat, at which point stealth is broken. It is supposed to be used as a tool for an opening strike, not a get out of jail free card that lets people troll and reset fights indefinitely until they get the desired outcome. If other classes F up with their attacks, they die. Thief gets to try over and over again until they get it right. They don’t die unless they are bad. Either they kill you, or they get away, then come back and try over and over until they do kill you, or get bored and go after an easier target. This is the worst version of stealth introduced in any MMO in the history of the internet. Anet implemented it very horribly in this game. And the way it is now, since it’s tied into so many of the thief’s skills, they can’t really nerf it too much without hurting the thief overall. Stealth and the thief class in general needs to be completely reworked from the ground up. Because the way it is now, it’s stupidly overpowered and if they attempt to balance it around the way it currently works, thief will become too weak.

At least you understand the bullkitten that thieves go through.

I have a thief that’s why. I still dislike how the stealth works in this game.

GuardianOMS.8067:

Another nerf thief thread.

Moving along.

If there’s too many of them, there’s probably a reason for it.
IE: stealth needs real counters …. not “swing blindly at empty space” ones.

At the very least… Stomping & Paralyzing shouldn’t be possible while Stealthed.

Just remove the possibility of halving the range of leap skills = problem solved. Most players of GearWars 2 could not even miss such a mechanic.

It would still be possible to perma stealth with 3 leaps instead of 4, it just would need to use more utilities (shadow refuge and possibly blind powder as well)

People are still crying over this?

Untrue with the “When thieves roll warriors or guardians they get face kitten d”. I mained a theif and I still do at times, it was my first class. After that, I made a warrior and a guardian and they are the EPITOME of easy in comparison to a thief when surviving. Sure thieves can run away easier, but in zergs, small groups and guild fights, I prefer my guardian or warrior cause I can STILL ATTACK and survive at the same time.

Now that’s out of the way;

Honestly this whole blackpowder heartseeker thing is old. It was old when the game started and I was experimenting with the class. It only now catches on and im laughing at the trend setting of this game, I laugh when I see them doing it and snicker about sheep. Im not defending the cookie cutting builds who run this cheese spec, but I dont like your complaining and generalisation of a thief is. 1v1, ganking and ambushes, sure a theif excells at it BECAUSE ITS WHAT THEYRE MADE FOR. But in groups, thieves have little more to offer then pulling out a bow and auto attacking and spamming CB. A good group will focus thieves, and goodluck running a thief and jumping into a zerg aoe.

But I feel sorry for you, so I’ll help you out:

If u run against a thief, he’s not invincible. If you argue that he’s unpredictable and can choose the engagement, then sir do I have a revelation for you. Chuck an aoe on yourself. Do you think a thief would stand in that aoe? Did I just blow your mind? Engineers, throw ur turrets and bombs. Necros, well ur kitten up. Guardians, use a consecration. Rangers, spike trap your surroundings. Warriors AOE with longbow OR spin to win. Eles… just be an Ele.

If youre arguing that “aww why should I change my build for this and this” “how come thieves warrant a specific build for themselves when u fight them?”. Remember that game you played back when you were 5, rock paper scissors? You know, certain things beat certain things? These thieves SPEC to kill you, they made the choice to specifically target and put you down as fast as possible. THEY change THEIR build to SPECIFICALLY fight YOU. They sacrifice armour, they sacrifice conditions and healing. They just do a lot of damage very quickly, but prolong the fight, or extend the fight beyond that initial burst, the thief will run and reset. Did you read that part? lets rewind: “The thief will run and reset”. In any part of that sentence did the words “And you just got ganked and died a horrible death” exist?

Theyll stop, evaluate and choose to run or prolong the fight and wear you down. They made the choice to make it advantageous for themselves or run. If they choose to perma-stealth and wear the fight out and whittle you down, THAT ISNT ADVANTAGEOUS FOR YOU. You know what that means? YOUR TURN TO RUN. You make the SMART decision, just like the thief did when choosing to stay or engage. Dont stand there and wonder why youre dying and why you cant face tank the damage and then come here and complain when the situation called for you to run but you didnt. Thats your fault entirely.

Ill role-play in the shoes of one of my own characters fighting against a thief. Lets say my guardian, who is currently running a roaming build to cap camps so im running meditations with sanctuary for the control and bearthing space. I run shelter as a heal amd remewed focus as my elite, runs into a ganking thief. I dont see him and he opens up with steal cnd backstab and basilik venom, ofcourse im tank cause I CHOSE TO SPEC THAT WAY, and I took a few hits before reacting. Im down half and I pop off smite condition cause to get rid of bask venom and turn around and pop a few hits into him, lets say 1 or 2. hes squish so I woulve gotten him to about 60-70% with 2 hits and my smite condition and im back to about 60-70% myself because im tank and I got a heal off my medition. We’re even and he sees it. He sees his burst isnt going to work, because 1. Im no longer surprised. 2. Im spamming that auttoattack to ward him back, so he risks getting hit when he wants to hit me. So he turns around, switches weapon sets and BP and heartseekers off. I see that he switches to his perma stealth and he can engage at his discretion. Normally, he would (speaking from experience) wait for about 3 seconds, the duration of a normal stealth. In that time he wouldve walked around to my open back and aimed for a backstab -BP and heartseeker combo. I count to 2 and pop my sanctuary. Guess what – he’s on the floor, and he’s not expecting it. That means He’s about to leave stealth and he cant apply his blind and restealth while he’s drooling on the floor. That gives me a few seconds to hit him, before he stealths again or ports away with shadow step if he has it, or roll of initivive. Im regening health and getting more health while he’s slowly getting whilted down. He picks up his weapons, and his balls, from where I knocked him off his body, and turns tail and perma stealth and runs. I didnt know this ofcourse and i drop a symbol on myself to deter him should he still be around. I safely make it a few steps without getting hit, wait for cooldowns near friendly territory and then head back out. Viola, thief didnt kill me and im off my way to cap some camps or find a group to hitch along with.

but they do deal twice as much from the rear and only from the rear.

Deals from side too.

Honestly this whole blackpowder heartseeker thing is old.

About as old as this saying: no kitten sherlock.

xcavars.5049:

Stuff. It’s the post just two above so I won’t quote the entire thing.

The real issue that I have with what you did isn’t that it is not effective (because it is).

It’s that when fighting you, all I am doing is pressing 5-2-1 over and over again (with a few other buttons like healing skill or Blinding powder, and dodging occasionally) and you have to do so much to counter me.

Add in a little bit of skill on my part and while your tankyness stops me from doing enough damage to kill you, you will never bring me down either.

Also, the other problem I have with Thieves in WvW is that we can build a lot of damage but still survive because of how broken stealth is. Unfortunately without it the Thief sucks (it’s tied to initiative regeneration, health regeneration, and condition removal), but it should still be brought down. There needs to be a reliable, easily accessible way to counter it.

From a mechanics PoV i dont see anything wrong with bp → hs. Having said that a lot of stuff doesnt add up for me.

1 If i attack someone and it is blocked or bounces off an Aegis i should become visible and get a revealed buff for me being kittened and not checking for Aegis/blocking animations.

2 No C’n’D off ambients/clones, or people can get stacks/effects off them. Either one, im not fazed.

3 chilled should have an effect on initiative recharge rate, it has an effect on my skill recharges as a Guardian.

4 change backstab name to sneak attack, no changes to mechanics or DPS.

5 stealth is a buff, period, my Guardian gets protection kind of like his thing, i get a lot of protection. But 1 null field wrecks my day, a Guardian without buffs is basically free badges. Yet my thief has stealth, this ‘buff’ that isnt a buff.

Apart from that keep thieves how they are, BP → HS is fine.

Sunflowers.1729:

xcavars.5049:

Stuff

The real issue that I have with what you did isn’t that it is not effective (because it is).

It’s that when fighting you, all I am doing is pressing 5-2-1 over and over again (with a few other buttons like healing skill or Blinding powder, and dodging occasionally) and you have to do so much to counter me.

Add in a little bit of skill on my part and while your tankyness stops me from doing enough damage to kill you, you will never bring me down either.

Though to be fair, that whole hypothetical fight, I also only used about 3 – 4 skills. If we’re counting total buttons used, the thief would be about even when he changes weapons and uses a different playstyle upon perma stealthing.

Never claimed to be a killer. I emphasised that I was tank and not burst enough me thinks. *respect that you see the bigger picture tho. If that thief stayed around, the odds are more in favour of my to be honest. I have ways to reset the fight as well, they include my elite and actually healing. So many times iv fought a thief who mistook my meditation heal as my actual heal, and they thought I was out of damage mitigation and engage all out and leave themselves vulnerable in the process.

SKIP – HYPOTHETICAL FIGHT:

Shock to them – F1 F2 F3 for boons and regen, damage them with burn and symbol+leap for retal on myself and blind on them, autoattack once, their blindness stops a hit from them. Use renewed focus, hit them a few more times. F1 F2 F3 again, burn plus symbol+leap, shadow refuge from them = USE 5 to pull em out. Im a bit low so they try to burst cause iv healed enough that it seems like I popped a heal early.

Nope.

THEN I USE MY HEAL.

Iv fought thieves who stopped fighting and just stood there when that’s happened. I will admit there are certain skill gaps and comforts when running a thief. But chuck them out of the comfort zone and its soooo fun.

i say:
-whenever a thief uses a skill in Stealth, it should put him out of stealth. not just when the thief attacks something
-whenever a thief leaves stealth, he should be “Revealed”, no matter whether that happens via attack or stealth just runs out.

that wont hurt the normal thief in a fight at all, just the (D/P)-permastealthers. and when a thief decides to run away he wont be able to use one stealth after another anymore.

oh and kitten , let us keep a thief targetted when he leaves stealth. that would help a lot too.

4 change backstab name to sneak attack, no changes to mechanics or DPS.

the pistol attack is already called sneak attack. also, why???

RashanDale.3609:

the pistol attack is already called sneak attack. also, why???

Because everyone complains about getting backstabbed from the front/side, well call it something else, Vital Strike, Insidious Strike, Organ Puncture. No more complaints about backstab from front/side.

The retain targeting thing i thought of before but how do you implement it, so thief enters stealth target drops for any targeted ability. You target someone else and fire off an ability or 2, thief leaves stealth. Do you automatically drop your current target and re-target the thief? Do you forego that as you have already re-targetted? Something else entirely?

Nikkinella.8254:

selan.8354:

Mordecai.6318:

Never have I seen a community complain about something so much. My god, this combo has an infinite amount of counters that multiple people have listed throughout this thread. Clearly this is everyone’s first MMO and first experience with a stealth mechanic because thieves are easily countered by every class.

Shut up and learn from your mistakes. The combat in this game is so simplistic compared to basically every MMO ever, yet people want their hands held because being a brainless ham is too easy.

says the thief that cried a couple of months ago about confusion, because he couldnt spam 2222222212222221 yeah sure an entire community needs to learn to play, because u are so awesome and so godlike that u can play any other class and kill any other class with no problems whatsoever.

This always bothered me. Thieves cried and cried over retaliation and confusion, which I never had a problem with even before they were nerfed. Retal and Confusion were never OP. You just had to pay attention and not mindlessly spam skills like the majority of thieves do all the time. But they cried and cried until it was nerfed despite the fact that there were plenty of ways to deal with both. Yeah confusion mesmers and retal guardians were annoying, but killable on any class if you didn’t just mindlessly spam and kill yourself. Yet thieves refuse to accept the fact that stealth, despite having no counters like confusion and retal have, is incredibly op. I wouldn’t care if they permastealthed if there was an active way to counter it that all non stealth classes had access to. And no, other classes shouldn’t have to carry around a trap to remove stealth. Do thieves have to carry around traps to strip boons off of people? Other classes should have traits or utility or weapon skills that can cause reveal.

You’re thinking of Retal and Confusion on way too small of a scale. In most cases Theives can only stealth themselves and the ability to stealth others are both on cooldowns. Retal on the other hand could be applied to entire zerges and maintained. Things would happen like classes killing themselves just because they casted a multihitting AoE. Not sure about confusion, but I do know I’ve seen people insta-downed when ganging up on a confusion mesmer.

Some used common sense on these forums. We all know what that means….

/point xcavars

Dual.8953:

Nikkinella.8254:

selan.8354:

Mordecai.6318:

Never have I seen a community complain about something so much. My god, this combo has an infinite amount of counters that multiple people have listed throughout this thread. Clearly this is everyone’s first MMO and first experience with a stealth mechanic because thieves are easily countered by every class.

Shut up and learn from your mistakes. The combat in this game is so simplistic compared to basically every MMO ever, yet people want their hands held because being a brainless ham is too easy.

says the thief that cried a couple of months ago about confusion, because he couldnt spam 2222222212222221 yeah sure an entire community needs to learn to play, because u are so awesome and so godlike that u can play any other class and kill any other class with no problems whatsoever.

This always bothered me. Thieves cried and cried over retaliation and confusion, which I never had a problem with even before they were nerfed. Retal and Confusion were never OP. You just had to pay attention and not mindlessly spam skills like the majority of thieves do all the time. But they cried and cried until it was nerfed despite the fact that there were plenty of ways to deal with both. Yeah confusion mesmers and retal guardians were annoying, but killable on any class if you didn’t just mindlessly spam and kill yourself. Yet thieves refuse to accept the fact that stealth, despite having no counters like confusion and retal have, is incredibly op. I wouldn’t care if they permastealthed if there was an active way to counter it that all non stealth classes had access to. And no, other classes shouldn’t have to carry around a trap to remove stealth. Do thieves have to carry around traps to strip boons off of people? Other classes should have traits or utility or weapon skills that can cause reveal.

You’re thinking of Retal and Confusion on way too small of a scale. In most cases Theives can only stealth themselves and the ability to stealth others are both on cooldowns. Retal on the other hand could be applied to entire zerges and maintained. Things would happen like classes killing themselves just because they casted a multihitting AoE. Not sure about confusion, but I do know I’ve seen people insta-downed when ganging up on a confusion mesmer.

As long as the 5man aoe cap remains, every balance change to zerging or large scale warfare will be meaningless.

Hey,

Shadow signet, regain initiative faster in stealth, gain 2 initiative after when stealth, gain health while you are stealth. Yea, they giving you a lot of initiative, that gives your perma- invi.

For that build, you will spend 30 point on toughness.

Do you want more initiative point?
spend 20 points on acrobatics, you gain 2 initiative every 10 seconds.

For black powder, heart seeker combo, you spend 9 point of initiative for it.
At this point, black power, heart seeker combo should be sufficient when your initiative is full.
DO YOU EVER HAVE FULL INITIATIVE WHILE YOU ARE IN MIDDLE OF COMBAT?
If you spend 20 points of acrobatic, 30 point of toughness, how do you expect your damage come from?
perma-invi, so what? That build is completely harmless.
Zerker thief with heart seeker, black powder combo? They are not perma invi. A thief can only do 3 times of heart seeker after a black power shoot. In that sense, zerker thief only can do heart seeker black powder combo for 2 times.
Balance build?
There is a balance perma- invi thief, you get average attack power, sufficient initiative to keep you stealth.
A zerk warrior get kill balance build thief in 3 second with quickness.

What do you expect from thief?
No stealth, use a greatsword or hammer?
Stop complaining, why don’t you make a thief toon, and try to outnumber in wvw?

I bet you will make another topic,
NERF EVERYTHING ELSE SO THAT I WON’T DIE THAT MUCH

In case casual readers of the thread are wondering, none of the counters listed in this thread actually do anything. For example: standing in the BP circle does nothing but make me type /laugh as I HS slightly more to the left or to the right. In cases where I’m not confident, I just walk into the powder and HS towards the outside, not hitting the person.

The people that actually claim there are counters to this nonsense are either liars or bad theorycrafters. Not a single time that I’ve ever died with a permastealth build has been due to something my opponent did to counter, its always been as a result of an input error on my part or a bad judgement call – typically to overextending since it’s very easy to fight multiple people with this build and you slowly start to feel like Superman and sometimes you just can’t help it.

There are multiple skills that act as “counter counters” when doing these shenanigans, ergo, you have to actually counter the BP HS crap multiple times – often using abilities with long cooldowns which are then laughed off with Shadowstep or Blinding Powder – and if he feels like it he can stall eternally until all his cooldowns are back up, which other, slower classes with inferior potential for disengage find much harder to do.

I suppose to theory crafters it doesn’t sound so bad for one invisible dude with 6K + backstabs to follow you forever if he can’t actually beat you until you realize that in order for you to actually accomplish anything worthwhile you’ll have to fight other players or NPCs, whereupon you will receive several swift stabs in the butt and there’s not much you or your friends can say about it.

But whatever man, I’m loving having the entirety of a WvW map as my “do whatever I want” playground. I suppose I might be missing out on the satisfaction of hitting doors with a zerg, but it’s a sacrifice I’m happy to make, personally.