Guild Wars 2

thief is easymode class already.

perma invi only make them super easymode class…..

some nerfs needed here….

The only fix stealth really needs is for the revealed buff to kick in immediately as a weapon skill is used, regardless if it hits or not. Thieves would still retain their tactical advantage, but wouldn’t be rewarded for mindlessly spamming backstab until they hit.

selan.8354:

Mordecai.6318:

Never have I seen a community complain about something so much. My god, this combo has an infinite amount of counters that multiple people have listed throughout this thread. Clearly this is everyone’s first MMO and first experience with a stealth mechanic because thieves are easily countered by every class.

Shut up and learn from your mistakes. The combat in this game is so simplistic compared to basically every MMO ever, yet people want their hands held because being a brainless ham is too easy.

says the thief that cried a couple of months ago about confusion, because he couldnt spam 2222222212222221 yeah sure an entire community needs to learn to play, because u are so awesome and so godlike that u can play any other class and kill any other class with no problems whatsoever.

There isn’t a single post in my post history where I’ve “cried” about anything related to mesmer/thief. You have a few too many chromosomes.

I also never have/never will spam heartseeker because I am not an awful player. I can out think my opponents and that’s why I have no problem beating a thief on any of my six 80’s. If people are still struggling to beat thieves at the 10 month mark of this game, then you should probably re-evaluate how you’re playing or just quit all together.

This combo does not have infinite counters… in fact it has very few and even fewer are reliable. Any decent thief executing this combo will present an extremely difficult target to kill.

Yes it does. All it takes to beat them is a few stuns, immobilizes, or to knock them out of stealth. People just cant accept losing a 1v1 hence the plethora of these posts. They somehow cant figure out how to preemptively dodge, block, invuln, etc. and then capitalize once they blow their opener.

d/p is very initiative hungry and rhythm dependent when that rhythm is broken it puts the thief in a very bad position.

This.

Dankazama.6970:

a descent player with any class can easily defeat this kind of thief tactics, as long as their patient. standing on Bp removes the ability to spam HS or casting blind so even if their invisible thief cant back stab you.
to tread starter you need to play more WVW

Pity becouse seems hard to understand. Like when a thief puts shadow refuge (maybe when has low hp) and people start to run away instead of keep hitting/ccing. Or when someone is soloing and keep running away in a straight line if a thief popup behind him. Thanks to give me you free back. Noone uses the enviroment (in wvw) like veterans, guards, camps etc. They prefer to stand in open field instead of playing smart. Then how can people camplain about a class good only at roaming/ambushing?
You run with a wrong build? indeed it’s thief fault. You prefer to complain instead of learn timing, taking advantage of red circles (bp/sr)? indeed a thief fault. Thieves are glassy with 11-14k hp? who cares it’s of course their fault.
Maybe it’s time to stop pointing always thieves and start to look at our skills.. ah but forgot sorry, indeed here on forum everyone has 100% kills rate and everyone is a proplayer but indeed it’s thieves fault.

(And thief isnt my main )

I’ve got to say to this thief who was picking on my poor upleveled Ele yesterday and snuck up behind me and downed me. And then I vapor formed into my group standing in the Sentry circle. I even got credit for the cap.

:P

Jscull.2514:

EZ mode class- allows bad players to feel like they can compete.

Put the same player on a warrior/guardian, and see how good they are in open field without stealth. TERRIBLE.

i came here to say something similar but looks like some1 already did. Thief is the “i win button” class that’s why there’s so many in wvw and don’t even think of saying stupid crap such as “there’s many thieves in wvw because its a rogue and rogues feels like a solo roamer” cuz that’s a joke lmao. Remove spammable stealth from those “rogues” and see how many still solo roam on thief because thief fits solo roaming

They’ll say that and much more. The TDF would have you believe the same people who are apparently too stupid to learn how to fight Thieves in 10 months were somehow capable of dealing with 7 other classes well enough to not whine in the WvW forum. They’ll have you think that by sheer happenstance people running the same class with a similar build are just so much better than everyone that it kinda looks OP for everyone else, who are all just bad. They’ll say that beating people up out in the field is useless in a game mode where all there is to do is beat people up and knock on doors.

They’ll say it with a straight face and expect you to swallow it.

D/P Blackpowder and Heartseeker combo make no sense in the first place.

Mainly because the thief in general was designed around not having perma stealth in this game, However…with D/P it is more then easy to maintain perma stealth. This leads to thieves basically not being able to win a fight cause they’re being outplayed, and vanishing over and over again till they get their health back, Which wouldn’t be that much a problem, In previous games thieves could have a vanish, but usually it was on a 3 minute to 5 minute combo.

This game make stealth even easier for the masses and honestly makes it a get out of jail free card that’s available far to often, This is why Thieves require virtually zero skill to be effective at.

Eon.5428:

You answered your own problem its not as good i spvp but really good for skirmishing. Different build are good at different things and different classes are good at different things. A thief cant jump into a zerg and swing a hammer around and come out alive should we nerf guards and warriors cause they play differently? A thief also cant aoe almost an entire wall with marks or ele aoe spells should we nerf them cause they also do something different. I think you see the trend here.

Classes are good at their own thing for thieves that skirmishing. Also i dont play a d/p thief so dont think im just trying to defend my spec.

The difference in all those cases, warrior, guardian, necro, and ele is that their enemies can target them and retaliate. The problem the OP was raising was the perma, spammable stealth + skills. So no, you shouldnt nerf other players for “playing differently”. “Playing differently” isnt the problem. Strawman argument.

Perma stealth and Monozerging, two major problems that predispose Anet’s customers to check out their competitors.

THIS. NEEDS.A.NERF big time.

I play P/D but I used to run D/P before it went mainstream (Yishis build inspired by my build, he gave me credit in his D/P video).

Either you remove the blindness from the single bullet (as you combo)… or remove blind all together, I can’t really think of a fix but D/P is OP as hell.. luckily most players have no clue how to play it and are nothing more than annoying.

My video : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ZOl-e8KCkY (9.5k views)

kiruwavl.1705:

Hey,

Shadow signet, regain initiative faster in stealth, gain 2 initiative after when stealth, gain health while you are stealth. Yea, they giving you a lot of initiative, that gives your perma- invi.

For that build, you will spend 30 point on toughness.

Do you want more initiative point?
spend 20 points on acrobatics, you gain 2 initiative every 10 seconds.

For black powder, heart seeker combo, you spend 9 point of initiative for it.
At this point, black power, heart seeker combo should be sufficient when your initiative is full.
DO YOU EVER HAVE FULL INITIATIVE WHILE YOU ARE IN MIDDLE OF COMBAT?
If you spend 20 points of acrobatic, 30 point of toughness, how do you expect your damage come from?
perma-invi, so what? That build is completely harmless.
Zerker thief with heart seeker, black powder combo? They are not perma invi. A thief can only do 3 times of heart seeker after a black power shoot. In that sense, zerker thief only can do heart seeker black powder combo for 2 times.
Balance build?
There is a balance perma- invi thief, you get average attack power, sufficient initiative to keep you stealth.
A zerk warrior get kill balance build thief in 3 second with quickness.

What do you expect from thief?
No stealth, use a greatsword or hammer?
Stop complaining, why don’t you make a thief toon, and try to outnumber in wvw?

I bet you will make another topic,
NERF EVERYTHING ELSE SO THAT I WON’T DIE THAT MUCH

You are shameless as hell or either a freaking noob,

Damage comes from backstab, the “hardest part” is to time your heartseeker through black powder in order to stack enough stealth, and it’s not that hard,

Then all you need to do is connect a backstab which is extremly easy, if your oponent is on berserker now you just need to spam heartseeker as a kitten,

If your oponent is above 50% go stealth again and backstab again, shadow refuge, blinding powder, shadow refuge or even hide in shadows will do the trick, otherwise repeat the Bp+Hs combo,

And nobody told me this, i did it by myself with my own thief,

The amount of effort you require to kill another player with this class / build and the low risk versus reward is insulting to the rest of the players roaming or trying to acomplish something with a small group,

Only drawback is trying to take a camo by yourself, at least for me mainly because i’m not the best thief out there,

Daendur.2357:

Less QQ more Stealth Disruptor Traps.
You say thieves are ez mode, skilless and blablabla but you cant do a basic thing like put down a trap to screw a build ?

I did that once. The thief ran in a straight line for 30 seconds, then turned around and re-engaged. Stealth disruptor traps only change a thief’s typical 10 second fight reset to a 30 second one. Back to the drawing board with you.

Sceinna.3561:

THIS. NEEDS.A.NERF big time.

I play P/D but I used to run D/P before it went mainstream (Yishis build inspired by my build, he gave me credit in his D/P video).

Either you remove the blindness from the single bullet (as you combo)… or remove blind all together, I can’t really think of a fix but D/P is OP as hell.. luckily most players have no clue how to play it and are nothing more than annoying.

My video : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ZOl-e8KCkY (9.5k views)

Also played a D/P thief for a few months… And I do agree ’bout it being quite overpowered in the way it can be played in WvW.

But I’ll make an educated guess and say that D/P thieves doesn’t bother you while playing your character Sceinna (guard if I remember well). Just saying it’s still manageable when you know what is the next move. I know I did while playing my guard, war and even my engi.

Anyway, imho, the easy fix revolves around heartseeker. It just deals too much damage
as a leap and combo finisher skill. Take away the scaling damages with the opponent’s life from it (and give it to #2 mainhand pistol skill who needs a bit of love). Could even lower a bit its base damage…

That way, we get rid of the common “easy and quick kill” button from any thief build, while keeping D/P and D/D builds interesting and effective. But that’s just my opinion, for what it’s worth…

Mordecai.6318:

You have a few too many chromosomes.

I don’t have any idea what it supposed to mean, but it sounds funny

Yaro.3251:

Mordecai.6318:

You have a few too many chromosomes.

I don’t have any idea what it supposed to mean, but it sounds funny

People with additional chromosomes (usually 1) are those affected from down’s syndrome.

Shimdroid.2765:

Yaro.3251:

Mordecai.6318:

You have a few too many chromosomes.

I don’t have any idea what it supposed to mean, but it sounds funny

People with additional chromosomes (usually 1) are those affected from down’s syndrome.

Trisomy 21, though most common one, is only a fraction of chromosome anomalies, but I get the idea now.

Nerf heartseeker and BP? Are YOU KIDDING ME? Why would Anet do that? They love WoW! Which is why they wanted to do a better job at the rogue class than Blizzard did at it. Instead of being stunlocked to death while having a couple of secs to react. Anet decided it would be better to replace stunlock with perma stealth and hitting players for half their hp in one shot.

Why? Probably because it makes thieves feel really powerful. And for the non thief, it takes a lot of skill to dodge powerful attack you can’t see coming. And then it requires strict timing to punish them if they run. And if they escape its YOUR fault, not the thief.

I believe this thread cork-screwed into another garden-variety hate the thf thread…that’s fine. I won’t deny there are advantages. I started a THF a long time ago and never used him. I eventually got tired of using 25% of my skills in a zerg and decided it would be fun to try the thf again. (S/P + S/D) Aside from C&D and occasional SR, I have no stealth. When I do use SR it is because, unlike those in a zerg, I have no protection. I use it to get to where I want to be. Now, there are some good players out there who you can tell either play thf or know how to counter them…and you can also tell people who never set foot out of the zerg. These are the people who continue to run…and subsequently die. Rolling with the zerg makes you impotent. Your skills of 1v1 atrophy and you have poorer odds of walking out alive. I know it’s cliche, but try your class in pvp. You pick up a lot of under-developed skills that help.

None of this may be relevant to the OP, but I see 5 pages of useless complaining. I agree D/P is the boilerplate build. I try to be a tad more sporting and forego stealth (thfs linchpin)…and then I get “boon strip is OP” etc. I’ve come to the conclusion that there is no pleasing some. BTW real slick putting this outside the thf forum…because I’ve never seen a thread as original in its content there.

Sceinna.3561:

THIS. NEEDS.A.NERF big time.

I play P/D but I used to run D/P before it went mainstream (Yishis build inspired by my build, he gave me credit in his D/P video).

Either you remove the blindness from the single bullet (as you combo)… or remove blind all together, I can’t really think of a fix but D/P is OP as hell.. luckily most players have no clue how to play it and are nothing more than annoying.

My video : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ZOl-e8KCkY (9.5k views)

So true. To everyone that says that you can just stun the thief it really doesn’t take for a half decent player to pull a stunbreaker and stealth again.
The truth is you simply CANNOT take down a D/P thief unless they make big mistakes. As a thief player I personally don’t run that build cause after trying it i’ve simply found it boring as hell, but I’ve had / seen 5 people chasing a D/P around for 15mins without getting him. Ofc against decent players you’re not really going to stomp anyone in a 1v4/5 but there’s no way they’re gonna get you

To be honest I even doubt the BP+HS combo was even intended to work like this, or at least it wasn’t really thought through, because as it is it’s just plain stupid. Maybe the easiest way to start to fix it could be to make it non stackable

sinject.4607:

Jabberwock.9014:

For god sake, thieves should not be able to spam perma-stealth with this easy as pie black powder heart seeker combo. Not only can they stealth with it, but it is extremely hard to interrupt because the kitten field blinds you too (and they’ll probably just stun-break or shadowstep away even if you do). Even if you manage to get them on low initiative or health for half a second they can just use their heal or utility to stealth until both regen (which takes no time at all). Throw 2 thieves in the mix and you have an unkillable duo since they can further stealth eachother with shadow refuge and smoke fields even when one has it on cooldown/has low initiative respectively. Maybe if thief was properly designed to be ineffective with low initiative there would be no problem, but because their dagger autoattack is supremely effective (especially when stealthed) there is absolutely no disincentive to blow initiative on stealthing at every possible opportunity.

In sPvP it may be fine because you can’t take objectives while stealthed, but in WvW skirmishes this is beyond broken.

if you catch a thief on low initiative you should be able to kill them. if you can’t you should stop playing

speaking of which how badly were you rolled today by a thief?

If you get caught as a thief, low initiative or not, you’re doing it wrong. Sorry. Practice more, forums less.

My burst rifle warrior can still get these annoying d/p thieves. Most of the d/p thieves aren’t that good so they don’t understand how a channeled skill such as rifle f1 works with stealth. Sometimes it’s also enough to pop fear me and f1 because apparently they don’t know that stunbreak removes fear. Unfortunately the little more experienced d/p thieves know how to stun break and dodge :S, not to mention blind.

Funny thing is alot of these people who are complaining havn’t put forth any effort towards combating a thief and instead would rather get on the QQ train and beg Anet for nerfs that are just not going to happen.

The last profession update thieves got 1 buff and 5-6 tooltip fixes. Perhaps Anet is starting to get tired of the kittening. Perhaps they want people to stop crying for nerfs and start figuring out how to beat them… you know, not be lazy baddies.

You know what the real problem is… that sound their daggers make when they hit you. kitten I hate that sound, lol.

Zacchary.6183:

Funny thing is alot of these people who are complaining havn’t put forth any effort towards combating a thief and instead would rather get on the QQ train and beg Anet for nerfs that are just not going to happen.

The last profession update thieves got 1 buff and 5-6 tooltip fixes. Perhaps Anet is starting to get tired of the kittening. Perhaps they want people to stop crying for nerfs and start figuring out how to beat them… you know, not be lazy baddies.

When even the creator of the build says that it’s overpowered, I’m inclined to believe him more than some random person with a cavalier attitude.

Maybe you should learn how to play the Thief (what you seem to like saying) before saying that everyone else sucks, because I’ve personally tried the build and it is ridiculous. The problem isn’t that people suck, it’s that you are terrible and can’t see its potential.

Here, I even quoted it so you don’t have to find where the post it:

Sceinna.3561:

THIS. NEEDS.A.NERF big time.

I play P/D but I used to run D/P before it went mainstream (Yishis build inspired by my build, he gave me credit in his D/P video).

Either you remove the blindness from the single bullet (as you combo)… or remove blind all together, I can’t really think of a fix but D/P is OP as hell.. luckily most players have no clue how to play it and are nothing more than annoying.

My video : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ZOl-e8KCkY (9.5k views)

tonight was inside an enemy hills (wvw). Was followed by 10/15 ppl so the knew i was there. When i popped my shadow refuge (becouse rounded by them) everyone, and i repeat EVERYONE, run away instead of killing me inside the stealth red circle..

Maybe you should learn how to play the Thief (what you seem to like saying) before saying that everyone else sucks, because I’ve personally tried the build and it is ridiculous.

maybe people should learn how thief works. Becouse here is not the build “ridiculous”

Sunflowers.1729:

Zacchary.6183:

Funny thing is alot of these people who are complaining havn’t put forth any effort towards combating a thief and instead would rather get on the QQ train and beg Anet for nerfs that are just not going to happen.

The last profession update thieves got 1 buff and 5-6 tooltip fixes. Perhaps Anet is starting to get tired of the kittening. Perhaps they want people to stop crying for nerfs and start figuring out how to beat them… you know, not be lazy baddies.

When even the creator of the build says that it’s overpowered, I’m inclined to believe him more than some random person with a cavalier attitude.

Maybe you should learn how to play the Thief (what you seem to like saying) before saying that everyone else sucks, because I’ve personally tried the build and it is ridiculous. The problem isn’t that people suck, it’s that you are terrible and can’t see its potential.

Here, I even quoted it so you don’t have to find where the post it:

Sceinna.3561:

THIS. NEEDS.A.NERF big time.

I play P/D but I used to run D/P before it went mainstream (Yishis build inspired by my build, he gave me credit in his D/P video).

Either you remove the blindness from the single bullet (as you combo)… or remove blind all together, I can’t really think of a fix but D/P is OP as hell.. luckily most players have no clue how to play it and are nothing more than annoying.

My video : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ZOl-e8KCkY (9.5k views)

Yes well unfortunately for the 90%, I believe I’ve earned my cavalier attitude. How? I’ve BEATEN my own profession WITHOUT STEALTH, I have beaten other professions WITHOUT STEALTH and the professions I have yet to beat I LEARN ABOUT BY ROLLING THEM (i.e. mesmers and engis).

I’m not the only guy to walk this path either. There are people from every other profession who will get on these QQ topics and chant El Toopy along side the thieves if not give an explanation of the mistakes the OP made with their own class. So if people refuse to take those few extra steps to get what they want then it is their problem. Nobody will come to the rescue and push their easy button for them every single time.

Sunflowers.1729:

When even the creator of the build says that it’s overpowered, I’m inclined to believe him more than some random person with a cavalier attitude.

Maybe you should learn how to play the Thief (what you seem to like saying) before saying that everyone else sucks, because I’ve personally tried the build and it is ridiculous. The problem isn’t that people suck, it’s that you are terrible and can’t see its potential.

Here, I even quoted it so you don’t have to find where the post it:

Sceinna.3561:

THIS. NEEDS.A.NERF big time.

I play P/D but I used to run D/P before it went mainstream (Yishis build inspired by my build, he gave me credit in his D/P video).

Either you remove the blindness from the single bullet (as you combo)… or remove blind all together, I can’t really think of a fix but D/P is OP as hell.. luckily most players have no clue how to play it and are nothing more than annoying.

My video : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ZOl-e8KCkY (9.5k views)

I’ve also seen horrid builds called OP by their creators. That’s pretty meaningless.

In the video I see lots of bad players, upscaled players, and players already in fights with others etc. etc. Most are the type that turn into grazing cattle when faced with stealth. You can find videos of every single class killing players like this 1vX. The game should not be balanced around these sorts of low skill players.

I used to play my thief far more than I do now. It was my first 80. I came to see that thief is good at low skill levels. It’s very easy to pick up and use. However as the skill levels of the players increases, that advantage drops and eventually caps earlier than other classes. Thief is the cod noob tube of gw2. People complain about it, but it’s hardly ever seen at higher skill levels because there are more powerful options.

Thief is not among the best 1v1 classes (my eng and mes are better at that regardless of the thief’s chosen weaponsets), isn’t very useful for groups (thief needs a buff in this area), but thief does do a few things that it does better than other classes though. Mobility, scouting, contesting keeps, and ganking yaks.

Aberrant.6749:

Thief is not among the best 1v1 classes (my eng and mes are better at that regardless of the thief’s chosen weaponsets), isn’t very useful for groups (thief needs a buff in this area), but thief does do a few things that it does better than other classes though. Mobility, scouting, contesting keeps, and ganking yaks.

Clap, clap, clap.
Exactly what I was thinking to say.

Best,

Haltair, one of the Twelve Shadows

Annoying to play against isn’t the same as overpowered – i think people on both sides of this argument are right.

If you take away thieves’ access to stealth and gave no buffs to compensate, they would be underpowered – because everything they have is balanced around stealth. It’s too powerful, in the sense that it necessarily cripples everything else a thief can do in order to compensate for the strength of that one mechanic. If thieves had less access to stealth, or stealth was redesigned in such a way as to require a trade off (slower movement, less defense), this would open up the possibility of giving thieves power in other ways – ways that might not pigeon hole them into being single target burst assassins.

It’s also valid to say that stealth, as it works currently, is very frustrating to play against. Since it comes with no trade off, it’s not used to make “clutch” plays, rather it’s a constant popping in and out in a way that provides very little counter play. It’s not quite as bad as hard cc, but at least most hard cc’s have obvious tells and long cool downs. To balance this, thieves are incredibly squishy, and so the solution is not quite as simple as just “nerfing” thieves.

I can completely understand thieves getting upset at the idea of nerfing stealth, because right now it’s what’s keeping them viable. But I think in order to broaden the role of thieves, and give them power in other areas, stealth will need to be toned down. It will make the class both less frustrating to play and play against, and will hopefully reign in stealth to be something used more tactically, not spammed.

rfdarko.4639:

or stealth was redesigned in such a way as to require a trade off (slower movement, less defense)

A thief full zerk with 0 points in SA is already with “less defence”..
Don’t think running with pants only is the best thing :p
Point is that noone wanna belive when someone says “keep hitting when you see the red circle”. Most of time with 2 hits half of my health bar is gone and, always most of time, when i popup stealth ppl start to run away in panic mode.
Reducing stealth means only more mobility, more defence and more damage. It’s the trade-off.
Even if people would really see thieves running with pants/no stealth/no damage becouse every ego issue needs its scapegoat.

mrmadhaze.8706:

rfdarko.4639:

or stealth was redesigned in such a way as to require a trade off (slower movement, less defense)

A thief full zerk with 0 points in SA is already with “less defence”..
Don’t think running with pants only is the best thing :p
Point is that noone wanna belive when someone says “keep hitting when you see the red circle”. Most of time with 2 hits half of my health bar is gone and, always most of time, when i popup stealth ppl start to run away in panic mode.
Reducing stealth means only more mobility, more defence and more damage. It’s the trade-off.
Even if people would really see thieves running with pants/no stealth/no damage becouse every ego issue needs its scapegoat.

Stop bringing the 0 shadow arts zerg thief into the discussion. There is nothing overpowered in that build, it’s not even that good as a burst build when compared to say warriors. It has nothing to do with this discussion. The issue here is the stealth spamming d/p build that has at least 10 in Shadow Arts.
These d/p builds often carry valkyrie gear mix and are fairly durable. They don’t need extremely high precision to be effective.

Most of time with 2 hits half of my health bar is gone and, always most of time,

Your build sucks big time.

Master of Timespace.2548:

mrmadhaze.8706:

rfdarko.4639:

or stealth was redesigned in such a way as to require a trade off (slower movement, less defense)

A thief full zerk with 0 points in SA is already with “less defence”..
Don’t think running with pants only is the best thing :p
Point is that noone wanna belive when someone says “keep hitting when you see the red circle”. Most of time with 2 hits half of my health bar is gone and, always most of time, when i popup stealth ppl start to run away in panic mode.
Reducing stealth means only more mobility, more defence and more damage. It’s the trade-off.
Even if people would really see thieves running with pants/no stealth/no damage becouse every ego issue needs its scapegoat.

Stop bringing the 0 shadow arts zerg thief into the discussion. There is nothing overpowered in that build, it’s not even that good as a burst build when compared to say warriors. It has nothing to do with this discussion. The issue here is the stealth spamming d/p build that has at least 10 in Shadow Arts.
These d/p builds often carry valkyrie gear mix and are fairly durable. They don’t need extremely high precision to be effective.

Most of time with 2 hits half of my health bar is gone and, always most of time,

Your build sucks big time.

My build is squishy like any other thief build. Or do you think is something like a guardian? Sure to be in the right place?
And a thief who go permastealth is a thief who doesnt hit. So maybe you suck big time ego rosik is the big issue in this game.
Less cry more chill, dude.

And a thief who go permastealth is a thief who doesnt hit

You clearly don’t even understand how a d/p thief works. The main source of damage is backstab, and hs to a lesser extend. You could go full valkyrie and still land very high damage backstabs with 100% crit chance.

So maybe you suck big timeego rosik is the big issue in this game.
Less cry more chill, dude.

Anyone else see irony here ? xD

These people who believe that stealth thieves have actual counters to them, need to stop yaking and actually prove it. Post some videos of exactly what your trying to preach. Words mean absolutely nothing. I play a zerker ranger, I can easily 1v1 or 1v2 any thieves, must be true right? I said so, so it must be true..

Post some videos of yourself getting countered in real-time play. Give some commentary while your at it. Don’t tell us to look ourselves, because from what I’ve seen, there isn’t any, so start proving your points, or exit stage left.

Zacchary.6183:

I’ve BEATEN my own profession WITHOUT STEALTH, I have beaten other professions WITHOUT STEALTH and the professions I have yet to beat I LEARN ABOUT BY ROLLING THEM (i.e. mesmers and engis).

Have you ever posted a video of your gameplay? If so, I’d like to see it.

Jscull.2514:

EZ mode class- allows bad players to feel like they can compete.

Put the same player on a warrior/guardian, and see how good they are in open field without stealth. TERRIBLE.

^ this so much true

Rezzet.3614:

Jscull.2514:

EZ mode class- allows bad players to feel like they can compete.

Put the same player on a warrior/guardian, and see how good they are in open field without stealth. TERRIBLE.

^ this so much true

Bad players in the thief class aren’t any better than any other class. Sure they might score a big hit a couple times a day but you know that old saying about a broken clock.

Good players are good player regardless of the class they play. Besides most truly good players have more than one class in their bag. A player believing they got beat by a crap player rather than someone with skill, I suppose that is one way to look at it.

Most who have played D/P and played against it feel the same way, it falls in the very powerful category and IMO OP category which isn’t something I say lightly. I simply don’t think backstab was meant to co-exist with near perma-stealth.

JakobGW.5730:

Zacchary.6183:

I’ve BEATEN my own profession WITHOUT STEALTH, I have beaten other professions WITHOUT STEALTH and the professions I have yet to beat I LEARN ABOUT BY ROLLING THEM (i.e. mesmers and engis).

Have you ever posted a video of your gameplay? If so, I’d like to see it.

I’m not Zacchary, but I do play stealthless and run what the thief forum universally refers to as the worst weapon-set in the game (pistol/pistol). I enjoy the challenge of hunting other thieves even though there’s no real hard counter for stealth other than to simply be alert during the fight and anticipate their actions. For the record, I do consider d/p to be a strong build, but not over-powered. The only thing I see wrong with it is that the current game mechanics allow them to constantly whiff their attacks over and over again without breaking stealth, which rewards the thief’s sloppy play instead of good defense and reflexes by the defender.

Here’s some thief vs thief action: http://youtu.be/xbMS57i7fNw

And here’s a whole playlist of gameplay if you want to see how “underpowered” thieves really are without stealth.

d/p thief is a one trick pony build. Stand in their black powder to force a revealed debuff or force them to stop stealthing. Or just kite when you see them blackpowder. It’s incredibly tedious for them to do it. So just keep kiting them forever and laugh everytime you see the blackpowder circle. Or drop a stealth trap on them and laugh maniacally as you pummel them into the ground. Thieves for the most part are not intelligent enough to know when they have hit a stealth trap. Watch with glee as they continually try to re-stealth and waste all their cooldowns and initiative.

/point and /laugh at them to amplify the entertainment factor.

d/p thief is a one trick pony build. Stand in their black powder to force a revealed debuff or force them to stop stealthing.

Stop. Talking. Bull kitten.

The real problem is revealed not popping on whiffed attacks. If a thief presses an attack button they need to leave stealth immediately. Fixes BP/HS and Backstab all in one go. Brings the really good thief players into line with every other glass burst roamer, and brutally destroys all the bad ones

The problem is not what the thief can do it’s what the thief can’t do.

Why do thieves spam stealth and heartseeker/unload/clusterbomb? Because the devs designed this class so !#$%ing poorly that this is all they can do. Don’t point at the player and say “oh you just have no skill, and that’s why you play a thief.” you need to point at ANet and say “oh you just have no skill, and that’s why you made the thief.”

The class is terribad, so bad in fact that it can only do one thing well (so well it borders on exploitation of game mechanics causing thread after thread of “QQ nerf thief!”) and be about as effective as a pile of hot sick horse !#$% at literally anything else.

The whole class is over-specialized to the point of absolute infantile simplicity, that’s the problem. Saying you want ANet to nerf stealth and HS spam is taking away the only !#$%ing thing the class can do, which is why Thief zealots will troll you every time you mention a nerf to spamming and stealth.

Problem: the whole Thief class stinks worse than a week old diaper wrapped in burnt hair and crammed inside a road killed skunk that got hit by a gravel truck four or five times. Save for one hyper specialized, game breaking, and childishly simple play style, the thief is a horrible class.

Solution: kill it and burn it…or just kill it with fire…then like the mighty Phoenix let it rise from it’s ashes as a valid, well rounded, and challenging class to play.

Linnael.1069:

The real problem is revealed not popping on whiffed attacks. If a thief presses an attack button they need to leave stealth immediately. Fixes BP/HS and Backstab all in one go. Brings the really good thief players into line with every other glass burst roamer, and brutally destroys all the bad ones

erm no. This isn’t how it should work. I believe if you hit a block however, it should revealed debuff you. But that’s an entire block system overhaul. Which I doubt would happen. Stealth only lasts so long, and thieves are very predictable, it’s just about what weapons they are using.

It’s not about what the thief can do, it’s about your lack of knowledge of what the thief can do….. GW2 is a game of counters. To know how to counter someone you need to know what their class is capable of. You need to be able to read what weapons they are using, what their secondary weapons are, what utility skills they use, their skill cooldowns, and very good players can even read what build an opponent is using.

I’m so very tired of people who know nothing about their opponent talking like they should be able to beat them…..

I’ll throw in my 2 cents…

I main engie and dont have much trouble with thieves in general. At the first Backstab (which may crit for 5-6k), I drop my Crate and follow up with rifle. If they persist, Gear Shield and Crowbar come out. Usually they run off at that point. I tend to run a “tanky” PVT build though so YMMV.
Ironically, it’s necros and guardians I tend to have the most trouble with.

WhiteAndMilky.2514:

-snip-
….. GW2 is a game of counters. To know how to counter someone you need to know what their class is capable of. You need to be able to read what weapons they are using, what their secondary weapons are, what utility skills they use, their skill cooldowns, and very good players can even read what build an opponent is using.

That…or you can play a thief. Who cares what they’re using? They have cool downs, you don’t. Complex mechanics and skill chains to setup a spike? Ha ha ha ha ha, spam a leap finisher that can hit for as much as 7k a pop. Spike setups are for chumps who play those other 7 classes. Fight going poorly? Just disengage with stealth and catch your breath for a bit, spam a leap finisher through a smoke field a few times while you think about what to do. Don’t worry, your a thief, this is what you do.

What’s that you say? Can thieves do anything other than spam stealth and massive damage? Of course they can. It’s called sucking, and they have a plethora if versatile means to suck, all of which should suit any sucky play-style. There’s the “I’m really trying guys.” support build, the “excuse me sir but could you remove your boot from my rectum.” bunker build, and the “Where’d my HP get off to? I swear it was right there a second ago.” non-stealth roamer.

Obscure One.4357:

WhiteAndMilky.2514:

-snip-
….. GW2 is a game of counters. To know how to counter someone you need to know what their class is capable of. You need to be able to read what weapons they are using, what their secondary weapons are, what utility skills they use, their skill cooldowns, and very good players can even read what build an opponent is using.

That…or you can play a thief. Who cares what they’re using? They have cool downs, you don’t. Complex mechanics and skill chains to setup a spike? Ha ha ha ha ha, spam a leap finisher that can hit for as much as 7k a pop. Spike setups are for chumps who play those other 7 classes. Fight going poorly? Just disengage with stealth and catch your breath for a bit, spam a leap finisher through a smoke field a few times while you think about what to do. Don’t worry, your a thief, this is what you do.

What’s that you say? Can thieves do anything other than spam stealth and massive damage? Of course they can. It’s called sucking, and they have a plethora if versatile means to suck, all of which should suit any sucky play-style. There’s the “I’m really trying guys.” support build, the “excuse me sir but could you remove your boot from my rectum.” bunker build, and the “Where’d my HP get off to? I swear it was right there a second ago.” non-stealth roamer.

My personal favorite is the, “Look, ma! I took the training wheels off!” stealthless gunslinger build.

Obscure One.4357:

The problem is not what the thief can do it’s what the thief can’t do.

Thieves have more then perma-stealth. They also have more Blinds then any other profession, and more Evades then any other profession. And it is a highly mobile profession, in long distance running only a Warrior might beat it. Aswell as having a lot of teleports. And is surprisingly good at dealing with Conditions. And its one of the best professions to keep a Boon-build supressed..

Thieves are the hardest profession to kill, without a doubt. But Stealth isnt the only reason, even without Stealth only Warriors have a chance of actually catching up with a Thief that descides to run away.

What Thieves lack is things like Support, or the ability to control a fight other then “trololol instagib, kthxstealth nao”. Pretty sure Thief is the only profession that lacks a weapon that is, atleast partially, designed for support.

TeamBattleAxe.3901:

What’s that you say? Can thieves do anything other than spam stealth and massive damage? Of course they can. It’s called sucking, and they have a plethora if versatile means to suck, all of which should suit any sucky play-style. There’s the “I’m really trying guys.” support build, the “excuse me sir but could you remove your boot from my rectum.” bunker build, and the “Where’d my HP get off to? I swear it was right there a second ago.” non-stealth roamer.

I almost fell from my chair laughing hahahaha xD

Obscure One.4357:

What’s that you say? Can thieves do anything other than spam stealth and massive damage?

They really don’t have to, even in “real” pvp. I have run across at least 10 “small teams” in WvW who are 4 bunkers and a glass thief, and while you are fighting the bunkers with 10+ people, the thief is picking you off, one at a time. And they win more often than they should, because stealth.

What can a thief do in WvW?

Focus down eles, guards, siege, etc., follow zergs – O&R, cut supply, gank slowpokes, contest every tower on a BL map in less than 4 min, group stealth… the only limit is the player ability.

It is all in WHO is playing the thief, and HOW they want to play.

To be fair, I main an Engie and stomp the crap out of thieves regularly, but this build is stupid and easy. Cut the leap finisher out of HS, allow blocks or misses to reveal and everyone go back to the normal amount of complaining about thieves.

PS. One of the reasons Thieves are the target of so much angst is that when people complain about other professions, they are doing it wrong; i.e. the retaliation threads, or the confusion threads are mostly about Guardians and Mesmers respectively, and the zerg threads are about all high-vis professions that have good team dynamics and therefore conga line when it’s Limbo time. Thieves stick out because they solo gank, and very few specifically point to a mechanic (although stealth is mentioned in the threads themselves) beyond the profession as a whole. So while I agree on some level that thieves don’t have the team support of MOST other professions on a mechanical level, that doesn’t mean they can’t fulfill other roles reasonably, if not well.

This whole thread is dedicated to a SINGLE combo that thieves use to gain access to even more stealth than this set of traits/skills might ordinarily allow for, and is therefore even easier to abuse. So while some in this thread are just airing their general QQ about thieves, I think the point has been made well that this build requires some balancing.