Guild Wars 2

Misinformation. Misinformation everywhere.

Man I hope stealth in this game isn’t as bad as it was in GW2.

…oh wait, F.

mrmadhaze.8706:

Misinformation. Misinformation everywhere.

Yeap.

Clarifications
Stealth is a defensive means of mitigating damage by becoming untargetable. Stealth grants neither invulnerability nor stability. Note skills with long warm up times that are activated while the target is visible and then gains stealth during that time are not interrupted and target as normal. Subsequent attempts to target (or generally know where the player is) are nullified for the duration of said stealth, thereby mitigating direct damage by up to 100% depending on how well the attacking player can predict the position of an invisible target.

Obscure One.4357:

mrmadhaze.8706:

Misinformation. Misinformation everywhere.

Yeap.

Clarifications
Stealth is a defensive means of mitigating damage by becoming untargetable. Stealth grants neither invulnerability nor stability. Note skills with long warm up times that are activated while the target is visible and then gains stealth during that time are not interrupted and target as normal. Subsequent attempts to target (or generally know where the player is) are nullified for the duration of said stealth, thereby mitigating direct damage by up to 100% depending on how well the attacking player can predict the position of an invisible target.

Just wanna throw this in there. Some attack need a target to active, not everything is melee sweeping auto attack or ground targetable. Also stealth provides(spec provided) a lot of condition removal, tons of healing over time, and in the case of say my Mesmer boons.

If stealth didn’t provide so much outside of its targeting issues and gaining the stealther position I think we would have a whole new conversation.

Imagine no healing and free offensive conditions removal in some way. Or even a penalty for healing.

I hope one day a mmo comes around without a pure invisible mechanic for stealth. It only brings headaches for both user and victim.
.

Silas Drake.8946:

Obscure One.4357:

mrmadhaze.8706:

Misinformation. Misinformation everywhere.

Yeap.

Clarifications
Stealth is a defensive means of mitigating damage by becoming untargetable. Stealth grants neither invulnerability nor stability. Note skills with long warm up times that are activated while the target is visible and then gains stealth during that time are not interrupted and target as normal. Subsequent attempts to target (or generally know where the player is) are nullified for the duration of said stealth, thereby mitigating direct damage by up to 100% depending on how well the attacking player can predict the position of an invisible target.

Just wanna throw this in there. Some attack need a target to active, not everything is melee sweeping auto attack or ground targetable. Also stealth provides(spec provided) a lot of condition removal, tons of healing over time, and in the case of say my Mesmer boons.

If stealth didn’t provide so much outside of its targeting issues and gaining the stealther position I think we would have a whole new conversation.

Imagine no healing and free offensive conditions removal in some way. Or even a penalty for healing.

I hope one day a mmo comes around without a pure invisible mechanic for stealth. It only brings headaches for both user and victim.
.

Incorrect

You are associating the things the Thief can do when activating or while being stealthed to the stealth effect itself. Stealth does not inherently cure conditions nor provide healing.

Obscure One.4357:

Silas Drake.8946:

Obscure One.4357:

mrmadhaze.8706:

Misinformation. Misinformation everywhere.

Yeap.

Clarifications
Stealth is a defensive means of mitigating damage by becoming untargetable. Stealth grants neither invulnerability nor stability. Note skills with long warm up times that are activated while the target is visible and then gains stealth during that time are not interrupted and target as normal. Subsequent attempts to target (or generally know where the player is) are nullified for the duration of said stealth, thereby mitigating direct damage by up to 100% depending on how well the attacking player can predict the position of an invisible target.

Just wanna throw this in there. Some attack need a target to active, not everything is melee sweeping auto attack or ground targetable. Also stealth provides(spec provided) a lot of condition removal, tons of healing over time, and in the case of say my Mesmer boons.

If stealth didn’t provide so much outside of its targeting issues and gaining the stealther position I think we would have a whole new conversation.

Imagine no healing and free offensive conditions removal in some way. Or even a penalty for healing.

I hope one day a mmo comes around without a pure invisible mechanic for stealth. It only brings headaches for both user and victim.
.

Incorrect

You are associating the things the Thief can do when activating or while being stealthed to the stealth effect itself. Stealth does not inherently cure conditions nor provide healing.

Stealth can provide healing if traited for it, Shadow Refuge also heals you while activated.

Dan.2940:

Obscure One.4357:

Silas Drake.8946:

Obscure One.4357:

mrmadhaze.8706:

Misinformation. Misinformation everywhere.

Yeap.

Clarifications
Stealth is a defensive means of mitigating damage by becoming untargetable. Stealth grants neither invulnerability nor stability. Note skills with long warm up times that are activated while the target is visible and then gains stealth during that time are not interrupted and target as normal. Subsequent attempts to target (or generally know where the player is) are nullified for the duration of said stealth, thereby mitigating direct damage by up to 100% depending on how well the attacking player can predict the position of an invisible target.

Just wanna throw this in there. Some attack need a target to active, not everything is melee sweeping auto attack or ground targetable. Also stealth provides(spec provided) a lot of condition removal, tons of healing over time, and in the case of say my Mesmer boons.

If stealth didn’t provide so much outside of its targeting issues and gaining the stealther position I think we would have a whole new conversation.

Imagine no healing and free offensive conditions removal in some way. Or even a penalty for healing.

I hope one day a mmo comes around without a pure invisible mechanic for stealth. It only brings headaches for both user and victim.
.

Incorrect

You are associating the things the Thief can do when activating or while being stealthed to the stealth effect itself. Stealth does not inherently cure conditions nor provide healing.

Stealth can provide healing if traited for it, Shadow Refuge also heals you while activated.

Exactly. A Thief trait and a Thief skill that trigger when entering or while being stealthed. These are not mechanics of Stealth itself they are mechanics of the class.

Infusion of Shadow needs a 3 sec inner CD. Does D/P need a nerf though, no.

Obscure One.4357:

Dan.2940:

Obscure One.4357:

Silas Drake.8946:

Obscure One.4357:

mrmadhaze.8706:

Misinformation. Misinformation everywhere.

Yeap.

Clarifications
Stealth is a defensive means of mitigating damage by becoming untargetable. Stealth grants neither invulnerability nor stability. Note skills with long warm up times that are activated while the target is visible and then gains stealth during that time are not interrupted and target as normal. Subsequent attempts to target (or generally know where the player is) are nullified for the duration of said stealth, thereby mitigating direct damage by up to 100% depending on how well the attacking player can predict the position of an invisible target.

Just wanna throw this in there. Some attack need a target to active, not everything is melee sweeping auto attack or ground targetable. Also stealth provides(spec provided) a lot of condition removal, tons of healing over time, and in the case of say my Mesmer boons.

If stealth didn’t provide so much outside of its targeting issues and gaining the stealther position I think we would have a whole new conversation.

Imagine no healing and free offensive conditions removal in some way. Or even a penalty for healing.

I hope one day a mmo comes around without a pure invisible mechanic for stealth. It only brings headaches for both user and victim.
.

Incorrect

You are associating the things the Thief can do when activating or while being stealthed to the stealth effect itself. Stealth does not inherently cure conditions nor provide healing.

Stealth can provide healing if traited for it, Shadow Refuge also heals you while activated.

Exactly. A Thief trait and a Thief skill that trigger when entering or while being stealthed. These are not mechanics of Stealth itself they are mechanics of the class.

Weapons don’t do damage unless you push the buttons ether. Reguardless reading everything is probably a good idea beforehand.

Thieves have no stealth that only provides invisibility. Damage, blinds, healing, teleport are tied to it aswell. The only pure invisibility only stealth abilities I can think of off the top of my head is vale and mass invisibility. They do however provide for multiple player stealth. So arguing stealth as a sole mechanic wouldn’t make sense with out factoring in its built in advantages that when combained sometimes provides too much.

Silas Drake.8946:

Obscure One.4357:

Dan.2940:

Obscure One.4357:

Silas Drake.8946:

Obscure One.4357:

mrmadhaze.8706:

Misinformation. Misinformation everywhere.

Yeap.

Clarifications
Stealth is a defensive means of mitigating damage by becoming untargetable. Stealth grants neither invulnerability nor stability. Note skills with long warm up times that are activated while the target is visible and then gains stealth during that time are not interrupted and target as normal. Subsequent attempts to target (or generally know where the player is) are nullified for the duration of said stealth, thereby mitigating direct damage by up to 100% depending on how well the attacking player can predict the position of an invisible target.

Just wanna throw this in there. Some attack need a target to active, not everything is melee sweeping auto attack or ground targetable. Also stealth provides(spec provided) a lot of condition removal, tons of healing over time, and in the case of say my Mesmer boons.

If stealth didn’t provide so much outside of its targeting issues and gaining the stealther position I think we would have a whole new conversation.

Imagine no healing and free offensive conditions removal in some way. Or even a penalty for healing.

I hope one day a mmo comes around without a pure invisible mechanic for stealth. It only brings headaches for both user and victim.
.

Incorrect

You are associating the things the Thief can do when activating or while being stealthed to the stealth effect itself. Stealth does not inherently cure conditions nor provide healing.

Stealth can provide healing if traited for it, Shadow Refuge also heals you while activated.

Exactly. A Thief trait and a Thief skill that trigger when entering or while being stealthed. These are not mechanics of Stealth itself they are mechanics of the class.

Weapons don’t do damage unless you push the buttons ether. Reguardless reading everything is probably a good idea beforehand.

Thieves have no stealth that only provides invisibility. Damage, blinds, healing, teleport are tied to it aswell. The only pure invisibility only stealth abilities I can think of off the top of my head is vale and mass invisibility. They do however provide for multiple player stealth. So arguing stealth as a sole mechanic wouldn’t make sense with out factoring in its built in advantages that when combained sometimes provides too much.

This thinking exemplifies the common placed ignorance of the mechanics that lie at the root of most of the stealth nerfing arguments. Any class can gain stealth from blasting a smoke field. Stealth does not blind targets, that is a mechanic of smoke fields. When a class such as an Engineer gains stealth it does not heal nor remove conditions, because those are mechanics specifically related to thieves, not Stealth.

Stealth is not a thief class mechanic, stealth is a general game mechanic.

Obscure One.4357:

Silas Drake.8946:

Obscure One.4357:

Dan.2940:

Obscure One.4357:

Silas Drake.8946:

Obscure One.4357:

mrmadhaze.8706:

Misinformation. Misinformation everywhere.

Yeap.

Clarifications
Stealth is a defensive means of mitigating damage by becoming untargetable. Stealth grants neither invulnerability nor stability. Note skills with long warm up times that are activated while the target is visible and then gains stealth during that time are not interrupted and target as normal. Subsequent attempts to target (or generally know where the player is) are nullified for the duration of said stealth, thereby mitigating direct damage by up to 100% depending on how well the attacking player can predict the position of an invisible target.

Just wanna throw this in there. Some attack need a target to active, not everything is melee sweeping auto attack or ground targetable. Also stealth provides(spec provided) a lot of condition removal, tons of healing over time, and in the case of say my Mesmer boons.

If stealth didn’t provide so much outside of its targeting issues and gaining the stealther position I think we would have a whole new conversation.

Imagine no healing and free offensive conditions removal in some way. Or even a penalty for healing.

I hope one day a mmo comes around without a pure invisible mechanic for stealth. It only brings headaches for both user and victim.
.

Incorrect

You are associating the things the Thief can do when activating or while being stealthed to the stealth effect itself. Stealth does not inherently cure conditions nor provide healing.

Stealth can provide healing if traited for it, Shadow Refuge also heals you while activated.

Exactly. A Thief trait and a Thief skill that trigger when entering or while being stealthed. These are not mechanics of Stealth itself they are mechanics of the class.

Weapons don’t do damage unless you push the buttons ether. Reguardless reading everything is probably a good idea beforehand.

Thieves have no stealth that only provides invisibility. Damage, blinds, healing, teleport are tied to it aswell. The only pure invisibility only stealth abilities I can think of off the top of my head is vale and mass invisibility. They do however provide for multiple player stealth. So arguing stealth as a sole mechanic wouldn’t make sense with out factoring in its built in advantages that when combained sometimes provides too much.

This thinking exemplifies the common placed ignorance of the mechanics that lie at the root of most of the stealth nerfing arguments. Any class can gain stealth from blasting a smoke field. Stealth does not blind targets, that is a mechanic of smoke fields. When a class such as an Engineer gains stealth it does not heal nor remove conditions, because those are mechanics specifically related to thieves, not Stealth.

Stealth is not a thief class mechanic, stealth is a general game mechanic.

That’s just irrelevant schemantics though.

Xirin.8593:

Aeolus.3615:

the only problem i found with thief is their stealth finish that dont get KB, if they dont have stability on, they should be knockbacked.

Stealth does not provide invulnerability to knockback…

As i said it was on the stealth finishing action, i didnt want do say stealth avoids KB… sorry i didnt said if is smoke field or black powder that makes concecration or shield 5 fail to KB the thief, either the cases if no stability and caster not blinded then shouldbe KB as any other class.

PS: my doubt is if was a smoke field combo or black powder itself that negates the KB effect when thiefs fineshes in stealth .

bad English i know…working on that!

Aeolus.3615:

Xirin.8593:

Aeolus.3615:

the only problem i found with thief is their stealth finish that dont get KB, if they dont have stability on, they should be knockbacked.

Stealth does not provide invulnerability to knockback…

As i said it was on the stealth finishing action, i dint want do say stealth avoids KB… sorry i dint said if is smoke field or black powder that makes concecrations or shield 5 fail to KB the thief, either the cases if no stability then shouldbe KB as any other class.

PS: my doubt was if was a smoke field combo or black powder itself that negates the KB effect when thiefs fineshes in stealth .

bad English i know…working on that!

Dude, if you see a smoke field, dont walk inside of it, it blinds you :l …. Use the knockback outside of the field to knock them back. If you are downed, you can’t do anything if they drop black powder, but downed skills only delay the inevitible

Master of Timespace.2548:

Obscure One.4357:

Silas Drake.8946:

Obscure One.4357:

Dan.2940:

Obscure One.4357:

Silas Drake.8946:

Obscure One.4357:

mrmadhaze.8706:

Misinformation. Misinformation everywhere.

Yeap.

Clarifications
Stealth is a defensive means of mitigating damage by becoming untargetable. Stealth grants neither invulnerability nor stability. Note skills with long warm up times that are activated while the target is visible and then gains stealth during that time are not interrupted and target as normal. Subsequent attempts to target (or generally know where the player is) are nullified for the duration of said stealth, thereby mitigating direct damage by up to 100% depending on how well the attacking player can predict the position of an invisible target.

Just wanna throw this in there. Some attack need a target to active, not everything is melee sweeping auto attack or ground targetable. Also stealth provides(spec provided) a lot of condition removal, tons of healing over time, and in the case of say my Mesmer boons.

If stealth didn’t provide so much outside of its targeting issues and gaining the stealther position I think we would have a whole new conversation.

Imagine no healing and free offensive conditions removal in some way. Or even a penalty for healing.

I hope one day a mmo comes around without a pure invisible mechanic for stealth. It only brings headaches for both user and victim.
.

Incorrect

You are associating the things the Thief can do when activating or while being stealthed to the stealth effect itself. Stealth does not inherently cure conditions nor provide healing.

Stealth can provide healing if traited for it, Shadow Refuge also heals you while activated.

Exactly. A Thief trait and a Thief skill that trigger when entering or while being stealthed. These are not mechanics of Stealth itself they are mechanics of the class.

Weapons don’t do damage unless you push the buttons ether. Reguardless reading everything is probably a good idea beforehand.

Thieves have no stealth that only provides invisibility. Damage, blinds, healing, teleport are tied to it aswell. The only pure invisibility only stealth abilities I can think of off the top of my head is vale and mass invisibility. They do however provide for multiple player stealth. So arguing stealth as a sole mechanic wouldn’t make sense with out factoring in its built in advantages that when combained sometimes provides too much.

This thinking exemplifies the common placed ignorance of the mechanics that lie at the root of most of the stealth nerfing arguments. Any class can gain stealth from blasting a smoke field. Stealth does not blind targets, that is a mechanic of smoke fields. When a class such as an Engineer gains stealth it does not heal nor remove conditions, because those are mechanics specifically related to thieves, not Stealth.

Stealth is not a thief class mechanic, stealth is a general game mechanic.

That’s just irrelevant schemantics though.

You continue to miss the mechanical differences.

Remove the thief from the game, and stealth is still present. The problem is not, has never been, nor ever will be the Stealth mechanic. It is, has been, and always will be (since ANet seems happy to leave it broken) the Thief mechanics. Creating this paramount distinction targets not stealth as the source of the problem, but the thief class itself and its plethora of petty no-skill-required troll mechanics.

Make black powder a dark field for a day.

@Obscure one, Your argument/point of view makes no sense.

Silas Drake.8946:

Make black powder a dark field for a day.

@Obscure one, Your argument/point of view makes no sense.

What happens when a Guardian gains stealth?
He becomes invisible. That’s all. There’s no Guardian mechanics that trigger on or during Stealth for thieves there are.

What happens when a thief is inflicted with burning?
He begins to take burning damage. That is all. There’s no Thief mechanics that trigger on or during Burning, for Guardians there are.

If that still doesn’t make sense to you there’s literally nothing else I can tell you that will assist in educating you on the distinction between Stealth mechanics and Thief mechanics.

Dan.2940:

Aeolus.3615:

Xirin.8593:

Aeolus.3615:

the only problem i found with thief is their stealth finish that dont get KB, if they dont have stability on, they should be knockbacked.

Stealth does not provide invulnerability to knockback…

As i said it was on the stealth finishing action, i dint want do say stealth avoids KB… sorry i dint said if is smoke field or black powder that makes concecrations or shield 5 fail to KB the thief, either the cases if no stability then shouldbe KB as any other class.

PS: my doubt was if was a smoke field combo or black powder itself that negates the KB effect when thiefs fineshes in stealth .

bad English i know…working on that!

Dude, if you see a smoke field, dont walk inside of it, it blinds you :l …. Use the knockback outside of the field to knock them back. If you are downed, you can’t do anything if they drop black powder, but downed skills only delay the inevitible

As i said caster is not blinded it doesnt need to enter smoke field to cast sanctuary at distance, as example if castter use a traited santuary when it tries to save a downed ally with sanctuary, thief performs the stealth kill w/o being KB, ive noticed this as in allied thiefs do the same that is how i noticed thiefs werent being KB when finishing in that case.

Aeolus.3615:

Dan.2940:

Aeolus.3615:

Xirin.8593:

Aeolus.3615:

the only problem i found with thief is their stealth finish that dont get KB, if they dont have stability on, they should be knockbacked.

Stealth does not provide invulnerability to knockback…

As i said it was on the stealth finishing action, i dint want do say stealth avoids KB… sorry i dint said if is smoke field or black powder that makes concecrations or shield 5 fail to KB the thief, either the cases if no stability then shouldbe KB as any other class.

PS: my doubt was if was a smoke field combo or black powder itself that negates the KB effect when thiefs fineshes in stealth .

bad English i know…working on that!

Dude, if you see a smoke field, dont walk inside of it, it blinds you :l …. Use the knockback outside of the field to knock them back. If you are downed, you can’t do anything if they drop black powder, but downed skills only delay the inevitible

As i said caster is not blinded it doesnt need to enter smoke field to cast sanctuary at distance, as example if castter use a traited santuary when it tries to save a downed ally with sanctuary, thief performs the stealth kill w/o being KB, ive noticed this as in allied thiefs do the same that is how i noticed thiefs werent being KB when finishing.

Thieves can boon steal Stability and bypass a sanctuary. Frequently occurs when they are up against a necromancer, elementalist, warrior, or engineer using plague/tornado/rampager elite forms. If they so desired an Engineer can use mortar and allow the thief to steal the stability which lasts for over 2m. If the engineer stops using the mortar and then uses it again, the thief can boon steal an additional stacking duration of stability. I’ve personally tested this and seen upwards of 5m of stability on a thief.

Aeolus.3615:

Dan.2940:

Aeolus.3615:

Xirin.8593:

Aeolus.3615:

the only problem i found with thief is their stealth finish that dont get KB, if they dont have stability on, they should be knockbacked.

Stealth does not provide invulnerability to knockback…

As i said it was on the stealth finishing action, i dint want do say stealth avoids KB… sorry i dint said if is smoke field or black powder that makes concecrations or shield 5 fail to KB the thief, either the cases if no stability then shouldbe KB as any other class.

PS: my doubt was if was a smoke field combo or black powder itself that negates the KB effect when thiefs fineshes in stealth .

bad English i know…working on that!

Dude, if you see a smoke field, dont walk inside of it, it blinds you :l …. Use the knockback outside of the field to knock them back. If you are downed, you can’t do anything if they drop black powder, but downed skills only delay the inevitible

As i said caster is not blinded it doesnt need to enter smoke field to cast sanctuary at distance, as example if castter use a traited santuary when it tries to save a downed ally with sanctuary, thief performs the stealth kill w/o being KB, ive noticed this as in allied thiefs do the same that is how i noticed thiefs werent being KB when finishing in that case.

Sanctuary only knocks back targets when it hits them, you can stand just outside of sanctuary and stomp someone, you missed the thief because you couldn’t see them and they were standing a good distance away. Not the best way to counter a stomp.
The shield of absorption #5 shield skill, works every time if they don’t have stability, or aren’t blinded.

Sure,

Was it not: Pls nerf Ele, Thief, Mesmer, Ranger(pet), Engi, Necro and atm i believe (not sure) mace/shield warior?

Just trying to make a point:P

Regards.

Another hilarious “thief is OP” topic. Unfortunately this one actually got boring around page 4.

l2play please, and l2drama better too.

And yes, ALL the toons in my sig are 80, fully geared and played pretty much evenly timewise, all I do in this game is WvW. So please tell me how I’m a terrible player because on of my toons is a thief.

dank.3680:

Another hilarious “thief is OP” topic. Unfortunately this one actually got boring around page 4.

l2play please, and l2drama better too.

And yes, ALL the toons in my sig are 80, fully geared and played pretty much evenly timewise, all I do in this game is WvW. So please tell me how I’m a terrible player because on of my toons is a thief.

eh you know man, thieves are no skill r****ded trolls. So you are really terrible!! :P

(tl;dr just to avoid misunderstandings mine is sarcasm. it’s always better to specify )

Obscure One.4357:

Master of Timespace.2548:

Obscure One.4357:

Silas Drake.8946:

Obscure One.4357:

Dan.2940:

Obscure One.4357:

Silas Drake.8946:

Obscure One.4357:

mrmadhaze.8706:

Misinformation. Misinformation everywhere.

Yeap.

Clarifications
Stealth is a defensive means of mitigating damage by becoming untargetable. Stealth grants neither invulnerability nor stability. Note skills with long warm up times that are activated while the target is visible and then gains stealth during that time are not interrupted and target as normal. Subsequent attempts to target (or generally know where the player is) are nullified for the duration of said stealth, thereby mitigating direct damage by up to 100% depending on how well the attacking player can predict the position of an invisible target.

Just wanna throw this in there. Some attack need a target to active, not everything is melee sweeping auto attack or ground targetable. Also stealth provides(spec provided) a lot of condition removal, tons of healing over time, and in the case of say my Mesmer boons.

If stealth didn’t provide so much outside of its targeting issues and gaining the stealther position I think we would have a whole new conversation.

Imagine no healing and free offensive conditions removal in some way. Or even a penalty for healing.

I hope one day a mmo comes around without a pure invisible mechanic for stealth. It only brings headaches for both user and victim.
.

Incorrect

You are associating the things the Thief can do when activating or while being stealthed to the stealth effect itself. Stealth does not inherently cure conditions nor provide healing.

Stealth can provide healing if traited for it, Shadow Refuge also heals you while activated.

Exactly. A Thief trait and a Thief skill that trigger when entering or while being stealthed. These are not mechanics of Stealth itself they are mechanics of the class.

Weapons don’t do damage unless you push the buttons ether. Reguardless reading everything is probably a good idea beforehand.

Thieves have no stealth that only provides invisibility. Damage, blinds, healing, teleport are tied to it aswell. The only pure invisibility only stealth abilities I can think of off the top of my head is vale and mass invisibility. They do however provide for multiple player stealth. So arguing stealth as a sole mechanic wouldn’t make sense with out factoring in its built in advantages that when combained sometimes provides too much.

This thinking exemplifies the common placed ignorance of the mechanics that lie at the root of most of the stealth nerfing arguments. Any class can gain stealth from blasting a smoke field. Stealth does not blind targets, that is a mechanic of smoke fields. When a class such as an Engineer gains stealth it does not heal nor remove conditions, because those are mechanics specifically related to thieves, not Stealth.

Stealth is not a thief class mechanic, stealth is a general game mechanic.

That’s just irrelevant schemantics though.

You continue to miss the mechanical differences.

Remove the thief from the game, and stealth is still present. The problem is not, has never been, nor ever will be the Stealth mechanic. It is, has been, and always will be (since ANet seems happy to leave it broken) the Thief mechanics. Creating this paramount distinction targets not stealth as the source of the problem, but the thief class itself and its plethora of petty no-skill-required troll mechanics.

I think it’s actually both stealth and thief mechanics. Stealth has no counter and thief can spam it. If stealth had many reliable counters, spamming of it wouldn’t be an issue. Similarly, if stealth couldn’t be spammed, it wouldn’t matter that much that it has no real counters.

Master of Timespace.2548:

Obscure One.4357:

Master of Timespace.2548:

Obscure One.4357:

Silas Drake.8946:

Obscure One.4357:

Dan.2940:

Obscure One.4357:

Silas Drake.8946:

Obscure One.4357:

mrmadhaze.8706:

Misinformation. Misinformation everywhere.

Yeap.

Clarifications
Stealth is a defensive means of mitigating damage by becoming untargetable. Stealth grants neither invulnerability nor stability. Note skills with long warm up times that are activated while the target is visible and then gains stealth during that time are not interrupted and target as normal. Subsequent attempts to target (or generally know where the player is) are nullified for the duration of said stealth, thereby mitigating direct damage by up to 100% depending on how well the attacking player can predict the position of an invisible target.

Just wanna throw this in there. Some attack need a target to active, not everything is melee sweeping auto attack or ground targetable. Also stealth provides(spec provided) a lot of condition removal, tons of healing over time, and in the case of say my Mesmer boons.

If stealth didn’t provide so much outside of its targeting issues and gaining the stealther position I think we would have a whole new conversation.

Imagine no healing and free offensive conditions removal in some way. Or even a penalty for healing.

I hope one day a mmo comes around without a pure invisible mechanic for stealth. It only brings headaches for both user and victim.
.

Incorrect

You are associating the things the Thief can do when activating or while being stealthed to the stealth effect itself. Stealth does not inherently cure conditions nor provide healing.

Stealth can provide healing if traited for it, Shadow Refuge also heals you while activated.

Exactly. A Thief trait and a Thief skill that trigger when entering or while being stealthed. These are not mechanics of Stealth itself they are mechanics of the class.

Weapons don’t do damage unless you push the buttons ether. Reguardless reading everything is probably a good idea beforehand.

Thieves have no stealth that only provides invisibility. Damage, blinds, healing, teleport are tied to it aswell. The only pure invisibility only stealth abilities I can think of off the top of my head is vale and mass invisibility. They do however provide for multiple player stealth. So arguing stealth as a sole mechanic wouldn’t make sense with out factoring in its built in advantages that when combained sometimes provides too much.

This thinking exemplifies the common placed ignorance of the mechanics that lie at the root of most of the stealth nerfing arguments. Any class can gain stealth from blasting a smoke field. Stealth does not blind targets, that is a mechanic of smoke fields. When a class such as an Engineer gains stealth it does not heal nor remove conditions, because those are mechanics specifically related to thieves, not Stealth.

Stealth is not a thief class mechanic, stealth is a general game mechanic.

That’s just irrelevant schemantics though.

You continue to miss the mechanical differences.

Remove the thief from the game, and stealth is still present. The problem is not, has never been, nor ever will be the Stealth mechanic. It is, has been, and always will be (since ANet seems happy to leave it broken) the Thief mechanics. Creating this paramount distinction targets not stealth as the source of the problem, but the thief class itself and its plethora of petty no-skill-required troll mechanics.

I think it’s actually both stealth and thief mechanics. Stealth has no counter and thief can spam it. If stealth had many reliable counters, spamming of it wouldn’t be an issue. Similarly, if stealth couldn’t be spammed, it wouldn’t matter that much that it has no real counters.

Ah someone is seeing reason! Yes. Yes. Good. Good. I can sense your power growing!

Turn off the spam mechanics and give that thief a different way to deal and mitigate damage that requires skill like the those 7 other classes, and everyone wins except for the no-talent-troll-spammers who suck anyways and should die horribly like the petty unskilled trolls they are.

Make the class versatile, make it difficult to be optimal, make it useful to a party, all just like those other 7 classes.

Getting beat by a dude that has straight up more skill than me is acceptable, but being forced to legitimately defend against some spammer is getting old…oh look he contested the keep AGAIN and is running around perma-stealthed getting 15 people typing up queue slots playing chase the invisible man…

I’d like to remind you all that a thief has very little survivability, and that only comes from stealth.
And not even stealth itself, we’re talking about a full 30 points traitline to get regeneration while stealthed. Differently from most other classes that have more and different ways of mitigating damage / regenerating thief has pretty much nothing beside evasion builds (that are extremely demanding in both skill and items/traits/utility) and stealth.

Also they don’t have much CC.

And, besides everything, stealth is really not that hard to deal with. Refuge is the one 60s get away card and they have to stay there for 4secs before they can keep stealthed outside of it.

I would agree on doing something about the D/P stealth stacking because it’s annoying as hell, even though playing an s7d thief i personally don’t find them that much of an issue anymore anyway

But seriously, you can simply read the 7 pages of comments of people from every profession and you should at least ask yourself if MAYBE it’s actually YOU that should l2p or work around your build a little.

And again, stealth has a lot of counters: AoE, blind, knockback, aa chain can give you a hint if he’s near, interrupt before they go into stealth.
Nerfing heavily stealth for a thief is like taking the water attunement/trait away from an elementalist

Point is noone will take seriously someone who mastered a class during an afternoon that keep thinking all thieves are ret*rded spammer trolls with no brain and one finger.
Maybe it’s time to fix your ego dude.

And for keeps and towers anet invented traps. If noone use them and 15 players want to chase a ret*rded spammer troll with no brain and one finger is not a game design issue
And stop pretend that everyone can beat everyone else with a random build. Most of you seem a guy who played with me who started to complain about how op are thieves becouse he was kittened…while he was lv30. I’m the first who agree with balance and fixes but until people come here with this reasons…
Just random complaints.

ONE THING IS THE BLINDING IS SO ANNOYING JUST NERF THAT ONLY THAT

Obscure One.4357:

Master of Timespace.2548:

Obscure One.4357:

Silas Drake.8946:

Obscure One.4357:

Dan.2940:

Obscure One.4357:

Silas Drake.8946:

Obscure One.4357:

mrmadhaze.8706:

Misinformation. Misinformation everywhere.

Yeap.

Clarifications
Stealth is a defensive means of mitigating damage by becoming untargetable. Stealth grants neither invulnerability nor stability. Note skills with long warm up times that are activated while the target is visible and then gains stealth during that time are not interrupted and target as normal. Subsequent attempts to target (or generally know where the player is) are nullified for the duration of said stealth, thereby mitigating direct damage by up to 100% depending on how well the attacking player can predict the position of an invisible target.

Just wanna throw this in there. Some attack need a target to active, not everything is melee sweeping auto attack or ground targetable. Also stealth provides(spec provided) a lot of condition removal, tons of healing over time, and in the case of say my Mesmer boons.

If stealth didn’t provide so much outside of its targeting issues and gaining the stealther position I think we would have a whole new conversation.

Imagine no healing and free offensive conditions removal in some way. Or even a penalty for healing.

I hope one day a mmo comes around without a pure invisible mechanic for stealth. It only brings headaches for both user and victim.
.

Incorrect

You are associating the things the Thief can do when activating or while being stealthed to the stealth effect itself. Stealth does not inherently cure conditions nor provide healing.

Stealth can provide healing if traited for it, Shadow Refuge also heals you while activated.

Exactly. A Thief trait and a Thief skill that trigger when entering or while being stealthed. These are not mechanics of Stealth itself they are mechanics of the class.

Weapons don’t do damage unless you push the buttons ether. Reguardless reading everything is probably a good idea beforehand.

Thieves have no stealth that only provides invisibility. Damage, blinds, healing, teleport are tied to it aswell. The only pure invisibility only stealth abilities I can think of off the top of my head is vale and mass invisibility. They do however provide for multiple player stealth. So arguing stealth as a sole mechanic wouldn’t make sense with out factoring in its built in advantages that when combained sometimes provides too much.

This thinking exemplifies the common placed ignorance of the mechanics that lie at the root of most of the stealth nerfing arguments. Any class can gain stealth from blasting a smoke field. Stealth does not blind targets, that is a mechanic of smoke fields. When a class such as an Engineer gains stealth it does not heal nor remove conditions, because those are mechanics specifically related to thieves, not Stealth.

Stealth is not a thief class mechanic, stealth is a general game mechanic.

That’s just irrelevant schemantics though.

You continue to miss the mechanical differences.

Remove the thief from the game, and stealth is still present. The problem is not, has never been, nor ever will be the Stealth mechanic. It is, has been, and always will be (since ANet seems happy to leave it broken) the Thief mechanics. Creating this paramount distinction targets not stealth as the source of the problem, but the thief class itself and its plethora of petty no-skill-required troll mechanics.

Very well said and not forgetting they’re Philosophy “The One Man Army”

Yet

That doesn’t Red Flag “OP”

Seriosuly

This by far is the worst Balanced Team supassed the worst Unbalanced mmo ever created
(even WoW Rogue would laugh at that class)

As guild thieves members put it best "Arena net Implimented a Single Player Game Philosophy into a mmo and think they work together— that will Never work, no matter what “adjustments/fixes” they do for the class/thief"

Another example; it’s like putting Single Player.. Snake-(Metal Gear Solid) and (Thief) (Stealth Mechanices) into an MMO, wouold you Imagine the Mess and Choas that would cause to class/profession balance?

(Well Arena net thinks not) they think it works

Well

Since their Fail Proof Experiment was implimented to Mmo; Guild Wars 2. has there been any Choas, Discruptive and Outcry reactions among the Game and Class Mechanics due to their Failed Experiment?

Most Deffinently

I believe Pride, Grandiosity and Arrogance were the cause of implimenting Thief class to Guild Wars 2 class roster.

No wonder they fired “moving on with their live” Guild War 1 team members..

That should “ring a bell”

“And again, stealth has a lot of counters: AoE, blind, knockback, aa chain can give you a hint if he’s near, interrupt before they go into stealth.
Nerfing heavily stealth for a thief is like taking the water attunement/trait away from an elementalist”

Neither of these are counters. AOE often has a fairly long cooldown and most likely won’t hit anyway since the player still has to GUESS the position of the thief and guessin certainly is not a counter. Everything else requires the player to target the thief and also has relatively long cooldowns ergo can’t serve as a counter to spammable stealth. There is literaly no ability which will prevent the thief from dissapearing meaning that even if you are lucky and can target the thief and stun him before he stealths again you will have to put him out of action permanently within the 3 seconds most stuns are active which is impossible. Currently the only method to kill a permastealth thief is to get both numerical superiority and the element of surprise to catch him of guard and put a combined stun on him that works long enough to kill him. That is of course assuming that he has not a single stun breaker which is unlikely but at least possible

Nerfing stealth by introducing a cooldown of up to twenty seconds between stealthing appearing and re-stealth isn’t similar to taking out one attunment it’s like putting a cooldown on Elementalist attunements … wait there already is a cooldown on attunements.

This combo is a crutch. We did an experiment last night with a guildy who made a thief for the first time. We had him duel people using NOTHING but blackpowder+heartseeker+backstab. That’s it. No other buttons or utilities were pressed except heal.

Let’s just say it was easy mode for my thief guildy. It was sad.

One day i made a thief and everyone instadied just logging into game.
Was sad

First, I have run up against this and got my butt kicked. So I know what you mean. Second, it is NOT broke. Now please follow: Max initiative for a thief is 15. Black powder takes 6, heartseeker takes 3. that’s 9. Now subtract 2 for the initiative gain from stealthing, for 7. So the thief can do this twice, let’s say three for the sake of arguing and initiative regen. For a skirmish, ya that hurts a lot, but it is not unbeatable. (and oh btw, C&D is cheaper for the same effect, and blinds with the right traits). Different classes will have different counters, or be totally weak to this.

But what I read originally for a group of 5 to go down to this? Then you really need to stop and learn the thief. Pick one of you off? Sure. Down the group? No. Shadow Refuge is very nice, and it gives regen. BUT… what do you get when you aoe the area? What do you get if you knock the thief out of the ring? Often a dead thief that’s what.

Rather than scream OP OMG OP! try thinking, what can I do to counter that and you will most often find ANet has given you the tools you need already! And as you find these tools, you will find these tools don’t work so well against other classes / builds…

I think the easiest solution to this problem is to make it so all combo fields disappear after the first finisher use. There. In order to spam stealth then, they would have to lay down another BP and that would be incredibly initiative intensive. It would also, obviously, impact things like fire fields and the like so I know it will be met with resistance but people will get used to it and there won’t be the same level of stealth spamming. It also wouldn’t destroy the D/P weaponset for anyone who does anything other than stealth spam.

Bowulf.9726:

First, I have run up against this and got my butt kicked. So I know what you mean. Second, it is NOT broke. Now please follow: Max initiative for a thief is 15. Black powder takes 6, heartseeker takes 3. that’s 9. Now subtract 2 for the initiative gain from stealthing, for 7. So the thief can do this twice, let’s say three for the sake of arguing and initiative regen. For a skirmish, ya that hurts a lot, but it is not unbeatable. (and oh btw, C&D is cheaper for the same effect, and blinds with the right traits). Different classes will have different counters, or be totally weak to this.

But what I read originally for a group of 5 to go down to this? Then you really need to stop and learn the thief. Pick one of you off? Sure. Down the group? No. Shadow Refuge is very nice, and it gives regen. BUT… what do you get when you aoe the area? What do you get if you knock the thief out of the ring? Often a dead thief that’s what.

Rather than scream OP OMG OP! try thinking, what can I do to counter that and you will most often find ANet has given you the tools you need already! And as you find these tools, you will find these tools don’t work so well against other classes / builds…

Just a thing man. Base initiative is 12. You can have 15 only with a trait and generally noone use that one with classic d/p set.
And reading initiative wiki page the regen rate seems 1point/1.33 seconds. But never checked about that.

VidurrRedhands.1964:

I think the easiest solution to this problem is to make it so all combo fields disappear after the first finisher use. There. In order to spam stealth then, they would have to lay down another BP and that would be incredibly initiative intensive. It would also, obviously, impact things like fire fields and the like so I know it will be met with resistance but people will get used to it and there won’t be the same level of stealth spamming. It also wouldn’t destroy the D/P weaponset for anyone who does anything other than stealth spam.

Why not just do blinding power if this is truly the issue? It has a 4s duration and Reveal is 3s. Or, stay away from the field and the thief cant use it twice…

As to the 12 initiative thing, that just helps my argument. So I don’t understand the whole OP thing.

I once read a post from a warrior that I agree with. If you waste your skills against a thief at the wrong times, the thief will utterly punish you for it. If you wait and time it properly, the thief is dead. This is probably true for most classes really.

Bowulf.9726:

VidurrRedhands.1964:

I think the easiest solution to this problem is to make it so all combo fields disappear after the first finisher use. There. In order to spam stealth then, they would have to lay down another BP and that would be incredibly initiative intensive. It would also, obviously, impact things like fire fields and the like so I know it will be met with resistance but people will get used to it and there won’t be the same level of stealth spamming. It also wouldn’t destroy the D/P weaponset for anyone who does anything other than stealth spam.

Why not just do blinding power if this is truly the issue? It has a 4s duration and Reveal is 3s. Or, stay away from the field and the thief cant use it twice…

As to the 12 initiative thing, that just helps my argument. So I don’t understand the whole OP thing.

The whole issue with stealth spamming is it doesn’t matter where you stand, if the thief has initiative to do a heartseeker through a smoke field (black powder), they can stack a ton of stealth. They could still stack a bunch of stealth but would have to use utilities to do so and would thus be less able to deal with other things.

Bowulf.9726:

First, I have run up against this and got my butt kicked. So I know what you mean. Second, it is NOT broke. Now please follow: Max initiative for a thief is 15. Black powder takes 6, heartseeker takes 3. that’s 9. Now subtract 2 for the initiative gain from stealthing, for 7. So the thief can do this twice, let’s say three for the sake of arguing and initiative regen. For a skirmish, ya that hurts a lot, but it is not unbeatable. (and oh btw, C&D is cheaper for the same effect, and blinds with the right traits). Different classes will have different counters, or be totally weak to this.

But what I read originally for a group of 5 to go down to this? Then you really need to stop and learn the thief. Pick one of you off? Sure. Down the group? No. Shadow Refuge is very nice, and it gives regen. BUT… what do you get when you aoe the area? What do you get if you knock the thief out of the ring? Often a dead thief that’s what.

Rather than scream OP OMG OP! try thinking, what can I do to counter that and you will most often find ANet has given you the tools you need already! And as you find these tools, you will find these tools don’t work so well against other classes / builds…

As someone who plays a d/p thief you are way wrong on this. First off you don’t need the 3 extra ini at all. Secondly with Infiltrators Signet and Quick Recovery I can stealth indefinitely if I want. If I am in combat and not Heartseekering my BP field more then once, as long as I manage my ini a bit carefully I can easily stealth every single time Revealed drops off me.

Also if I want to break combat and get away using Shadow Refuge you will rarely have a chance to counter it as I will use Withdraw to gain some distance (while evading) maybe a dodge roll or two then a Shadow Step, THEN drop my Refuge.

Not only that but because using Black Powder with you targeted will blind you even if you aren’t near my field, it’s quite hard for you to counter.

It really is an easy mode, boring spec which is why I’m not going to play it anymore. Especially melee can do very little to counter it.

dank.3680:

As someone who plays a d/p thief you are way wrong on this. First off you don’t need the 3 extra ini at all. Secondly with Infiltrators Signet and Quick Recovery I can stealth indefinitely if I want. If I am in combat and not Heartseekering my BP field more then once, as long as I manage my ini a bit carefully I can easily stealth every single time Revealed drops off me.

Also if I want to break combat and get away using Shadow Refuge you will rarely have a chance to counter it as I will use Withdraw to gain some distance (while evading) maybe a dodge roll or two then a Shadow Step, THEN drop my Refuge.

Not only that but because using Black Powder with you targeted will blind you even if you aren’t near my field, it’s quite hard for you to counter.

It really is an easy mode, boring spec which is why I’m not going to play it anymore. Especially melee can do very little to counter it.

Then I stand corrected on the use of the blinding powder field . =p Then the only response I know to that is make the powder shot last only as long as reveal.

I think playing each “op” class makes it seem less op. I’ve learned from playing as thief in spvp the timing of skills, and what I hope for a class to do, such as not moving much, or backtracking, making it easier to backstab. Therefore I do not do these things on my guardian. Most thieves are extremely easy to take down, between dodges (perma vigor from trait for crit XD), block on my focus and just general aoe. Their shadow refuge might “heal” them, but I learned while playing thief it can be a great disadvantage. As a guardian, you can use great sword 5 skills to pull them out, which most thieves don’t seem to see coming, so you get a couple moments of free time with their health. Or just generally laying down any aoe I have in the refuge so they will come out with the same health or worse. The thieves I actually have the hardest time with are the ones who don’t use any stealth at all (or very little at least) and seem to simply harass and evade. They don’t do as much damage, but usually take long enough to kill that help arrives.

pot.6805:

Jscull.2514:

EZ mode class- allows bad players to feel like they can compete.

Put the same player on a warrior/guardian, and see how good they are in open field without stealth. TERRIBLE.

So true!

Not true. I main a D/D thief and I play a guardian extremely well, to the point where I won a 1v4 as a guardian. There was a thief in the mix as well but they ran off so I only killed 3. Thiefs are easy to kill if you know the class, how it plays ect, you know where they will be. For the record I used sword torch hammer Medi in knights/zerk mix armor with runes of the Wurm.

Dual.8953:

XII.9401:

Dual.8953:

Jscull.2514:

EZ mode class- allows bad players to feel like they can compete.

Put the same player on a warrior/guardian, and see how good they are in open field without stealth. TERRIBLE.

Nice troll comparing Thief to Guardian (aka the most carried class in the game) give a Guardian a hammer and a staff and they will not die. I’m almost always the last man standing on my guard, because all I have to do when my low is hit staff 4 and I’m good as new. How’s that? I don’t even need stealth to reset the fight.

Mhmm if he was a troll then why didn’t you respond to his warrior comment? Oh wait..he’s right..

Oh really now? Wanna open that can of worms do ya? Okay I’ll bite.
Even though Warriors are bottom in TPvP, they’ve overall still got it better than theives, trumping even the Guardian in PvE, and being overall more useful in WvW. Name one role besides Solo roaming in WvW where thieves are actually wanted?
GW2 is a game for teamplay, and thief is always near the bottom in any team situation.
In fact, if you took solo roaming from thieves, they would be the bar none worst class in the game.
In any case, he invalidated his point by stating the number one most requested class across all modes isn’t easy mode. The class I’ve actually heard brag that they can afk fights. The class that’s welcome in almost every party in every mode. A class that I’ve played and never felt challenged in the slightest on. I mean seriously, of Guardians found a good roaming build, that’d be it, there’d be absolutely no reason to role any class other then a Guardian.

Sword torch/ hammer meditation guardian in knights and zerkers mix. 0/20/30/20/0. I have 6 heals 4 burst skills 2 gap closers a good amount of CC. Whisper me in-game and I’ll help you set up if you like.

TheGuy.3568:

You really only have one choice and that is to accept that thieves are thieves. A class like this should have never even made it into the game (both for its’ short comings and OP features), but it is too late now. Complaining for a year has amounted to a hill of nerfs most pointless or making under utilized skills UP (see pistol whip, dancing daggers, cluster bomb, PD thief condition variety, underwater combat, caltrops and AOE). Fact is as of this moment thief stealth is out of hand and there are no plans to change this.

However, if you roam with a zerg this issue means little to nothing to you. A thief in zerg is a class that does very little DPS at range and is semi useless to zerg. You may say on demand blast finishers what have you but fact is in a zerg a hammer warrior, guardian, even a nades engineer is infinitely more useful. Lets not forget about keep defense and taking keeps. A good mesmer, necro, staff ele, and those mentioned above will be more useful. A thief may chose to debate. That thief will be wrong. This is nigh absolute (there are cases where a thief stealthing a mesmer into deeper parts of a keep cna help a portal “bomb”).

What we are talking about here is solo and small group roaming. Where a class with superior mobility and gap closing skills also has stealth which in many 0 30 30 10 0 builds give you access to a stupid amount of both burst DPS and healing. While not giving up your get out of jail free cards.

To any thieves who feel they can get fancy quips off I have to ask do you realize the class you play? Much like DD ele (once upon a time), mesmer, and guardian you play a class that duels well. Among all the classes in WvW not only do you duel well but you roam well. No matter how skilled you think you are or leet you do play a class that relies on a crutch to get wins. There is no skill to it. You may dig at other players for dying to thieves but truth is in many cases there is no other choice. It is not a skill issue its a mechanics gap issue. No one is going to fix it. Stealth has been deemed nigh untouchable by the devs. While you revel in the fact and pick off classes that can not deal with you remember. As one of the skilled players of this game you jumped on the bandwagon class and actually tried to brag and put other players down. there is no counter for a “good” thief. They will always pull off a win or push a draw.

I said my piece.

For zergs use a full cleric venom share thief. Blasting water is a full heal for everyone in your party, maybe the whole Zerg as well as them getting access to all of your other heals from venom sharing. #1 support class in-game.

I’m fine with BP+HS getting changes but how did this turn into a “ruin thiefs” thread?

I’m loving the way this thread jumps 8 months like nothing happened.

Lol perma stealth was nerfed.

The fix to D/P (which is broken IMO) is to switch Heartseeker on the D/P skill list with Death Blossom. This way D/D stays balanced and D/P gets a much needed adjustment. This is also likely a very easy change on the development side.

Putting a cheap leap finisher with a smoke field is too powerful, frustrating to play against and simply needs to go. Thieves could still pull the move off but they would have to weapon swap over to D/D which in turn limits their ability to spam stealth.

the sober ninja.6539:

Lol perma stealth was nerfed.

No it wasn’t. They tried to balance it but the changes had almost no net effect.

D/P thieves have no self-respect; it’s only one rung below Perplexity Thief on the cheese-build ladder.

It’s pretty sad how effective 5>2>1 is. You can be a horrible player and do pretty kitten decent when ONLY doing this combo. You can literally do nothing else except the combo above and kill most classes.

EvilSardine.9635:

It’s pretty sad how effective 5>2>1 is. You can be a horrible player and do pretty kitten decent when ONLY doing this combo. You can literally do nothing else except the combo above and kill most classes.

Just because you get owned by thief players doesn’t mean they are OP, go make a thief and l2p please. Thief class takes a lot of skill to play correctly so most of the thief players are really good, which is why people complain about them a lot.