Guild Wars 2

i wanted to thank the devs for the new BL’s. theyre so much fun for a few reasons:

- underwater combat: it occurs spontaneously in the canals. a little bit of it is a lot of fun and a nice transition between land

- new terrain allows for a new variety of skirmishing builds; more build diversity. it is possible to use terrain to your advantage, reposition, evade, do all kinds of stuff. guardian/necro/staff ele gvg meta is basically useless, so there’s some variety for u.

- zergs are virtually non-existent and they actually kitten your server in the current BL’s. im in tier 1.

- non-stop action: there are always people out there skirmishing. lots of small gang action

hope everyone else is having a lot of fun!

mistsim.2748:

HOPE everyone else is having a lot of fun!

Your topic says “New BL’s Are A Huge Success”. So what is it, you HOPE they are successful, or they ARE successful. I HOPE you recognize there ARE large differences between the two words..

I found jumping around the apple trees to be great fun, trying to break enemies line of sight. And the underwater canal combat rocks, everybody is doing it!

I like the new mid bl area change on a terrain scale – but anything positive in this update was absolutely DESTROYED by bloodlust imbalancing. creating near balance in these games is hard, I get that, but really who’s idea was this? cuz me, my guild and a fat chunk of the ORGANIZED wvw community HATE WITH A FIERRY PASSION THIS BLOODLUST /RAGE

mistsim.2748:

i wanted to thank the devs for the new BL’s. …

im in tier 1.
…

hope everyone else is having a lot of fun!

Really?

Dream In A Dream.7213:

mistsim.2748:

i wanted to thank the devs for the new BL’s. …

im in tier 1.
…

hope everyone else is having a lot of fun!

Really?

What does your opposition to bloodlust have to do with the points he emphasized as positive?

Is this a troll post? Or real?
Im not sure…

it’s not a troll. im not at all noticing any huge imbalances due to bloodlust. in fact, you CANT notice any difference as it’s basically microscopic. im in JQ (third place atm) and we usually have 1 orb anyways.

As someone that roamed solo often, I find the new ruins too much like sPVP, a lot of the open field randomness, organic nature, and route running of how you roamed prior to the patch has been lost.

I.e. Do I hit this or that camp next, go after this yak or too dangerous. Hey there’s a zerg, better scout and tail them to notify my own team commander. Can I kill those 2 guys, one is underleveled, oh here comes 3 guys, better bail. It was an interesting cat and mouse. There was also less help around, committing was more lethal. Now its easy for people to stall out battles or escape into allies due to the central location.

The ruins are just like a big deathmatch area in the middle of the map, and while some want just the pure fighting only, the combined thinking about where to be on the map to best help your team that went into roaming is lessened.

If all people wanted was mindless preset point locations to fight over, the game already had that, hot-join sPVP.

You can still do it the old way I guess, but most of the other non-zerg players are just running into the middle over and over.

mistsim.2748:

it’s not a troll. im not at all noticing any huge imbalances due to bloodlust. in fact, you CANT notice any difference as it’s basically microscopic. im in JQ (third place atm) and we usually have 1 orb anyways.

Of all the North American servers Tier 1 is the only competitive tier with any consistancy. This has happened because of a departure from other NA servers in terms of population and coverage. This led to a wide points gap between even T1 and T2. All NA T1 servers have 24/7 coverage.

On non NA T1 servers the buff is prone to further snowballing the effects of off-hours PvDing from the dominant server with more coverage than their competition. They will be more likely to control the orbs and help further push the dominant server’s off hours coverage advantage.

Pendragon.8735:

As someone that roamed solo often, I find the new ruins too much like sPVP, a lot of the open field randomness, organic nature, and route running of how you roamed prior to the patch has been lost.

I.e. Do I hit this or that camp next, go after this yak or too dangerous. Hey there’s a zerg, better scout and tail them to notify my own team commander. Can I kill those 2 guys, one is underleveled, oh here comes 3 guys, better bail. It was an interesting cat and mouse. There was also less help around, committing was more lethal. Now its easy for people to stall out battles or escape into allies due to the central location.

The ruins are just like a big deathmatch area in the middle of the map, and while some want just the pure fighting only, the combined thinking about where to be on the map to best help your team that went into roaming is lessened.

If all people wanted was mindless preset point locations to fight over, the game already had that, hot-join sPVP.

You can still do it the old way I guess, but most of the other non-zerg players are just running into the middle over and over.

but isn’t this what WvW needed? everyone was complaining about zergs. now you’re complaining about lack of zergs.

Im complaining about the lack of players playing since the new patch… guilds just log in to do daily and logout in hope this madness will stop one day

New BL’s Are A Huge Success

I agree. Well designed ANET. Much more fun in the middle!

mistsim.2748:

but isn’t this what WvW needed? everyone was complaining about zergs. now you’re complaining about lack of zergs.

It’s actually not that hard to zerg this area still actually. The close proxmities of the ruins actually benefits higher population servers just like everything else in WvW.

They should have spread these out to the corners of the map I think to kind of stop the sort of steady stream of same players going back over and over to the same place on the map.

Say put one at the Ice worm, one where the quagg weather island was, one south of the centaur camp.

I guess my complaint is there isn’t a lot of tactical thinking or choices to make about the ruins, its just a place to send all the people that don’t care anything about the score, or overall wvw strategy. No logistics to it. Just run into the center and fight, and hope you have the most skirmishers around.

The word ‘roaming’ itself suggests movement, and quite varied movement in between points of interest. Thinking about where you are going and choosing with a purpose hopefully. Not just endlessly battling it out for crammed conquest control points.

you CAN zerg it, but it’s ineffective. leaves the rest of the map open for taking, and little squads can take the points right back.

Roamers domain used to be entire map, with the chaos and unpredictable nature of that in interacting with larger groups or even zergs. Heck you could divert half a zerg to chase you if you wanted.

Now it seems like they just want to shove all the roamers into thunderdome in the middle and the rest of the map is for the zergers. I think there are actually less options for playing the terrain to your advantage now, in the way that a good roamer could really master. The fact that you have to go into those cap points ultimately takes something away from dictating a fight as it used to be meeting people out in the open.

Conquest points as the only game mode is a big part of what ruined sPVP. Now that is what WvW roaming has become, Conquest based. It’s not the same playstyle.

The full terrain nature of roaming is gone. Too often your’re either attacking a defended position that several players already hold, or just standing around yourself, bored, camping a point, waiting for someone to attack it. Some of the dynamism of roaming is gone, the sneakiness and ‘setup’ of an engagement.

Perhaps its better for small groups, more consistent fights, though I kind of think sPVP is the domain of small teams, less you just want to roll unorganized noobers. But for the solo or duo roamers, now worse.

Pendragon.8735:

mistsim.2748:

but isn’t this what WvW needed? everyone was complaining about zergs. now you’re complaining about lack of zergs.

It’s actually not that hard to zerg this area still actually. The close proxmities of the ruins actually benefits higher population servers just like everything else in WvW.

They should have spread these out to the corners of the map I think to kind of stop the sort of steady stream of same players going back over and over to the same place on the map.

Say put one at the Ice worm, one where the quagg weather island was, one south of the centaur camp.

I guess my complaint is there isn’t a lot of tactical thinking or choices to make about the ruins, its just a place to send all the people that don’t care anything about the score, or overall wvw strategy. No logistics to it. Just run into the center and fight, and hope you have the most skirmishers around.

Except those that are trying to cap the nodes do care about points, mostly the points per stomp. Also it gives smaller guilds like mine an area to roam and contribute without balling up into the zerg. Also the proximity is nice as it gives the smaller groups a chance to run and grab camps and yaks as well, if they were scattered around the map it would be fairly pointless and honestly more likely to be zerged on a blob’s way to a point. Can they be zerged now? yes, but the issue is that by zerging the points, not only are you leaving your PPT spots open, but also leaving 4 other cap points open as well.

Also, one of the BIGGEST complaints regarding WvW was the lack of open field fighting. Too much sitting in towers/keeps with siege. Making an area dedicated to it was one of the best ideas Anet had, and I thank them for that from a small guild/roaming point of view. I do agree with the people complaining about the Bloodlust buff though. It works for my current match up due to even coverage and no snowballing, however for almost all the other match ups it is an issue. I would suggest they make the buff borderlands specific, with the points per stomp spread across all WvW.

If you’re not a troll, then you’re incredibly naive (no offense intended).

Coming from a tier 1 players that does mostly less than 5 man groups this new update is bad. Makes it harder to get around

It is fine in t1. Wait until a t1 server has to fight rank 5-12 with the leagues. All the ppl claiming it was a good idea will change their attitude when there is no one on to fight.

Yes, I’m in t1. Other t1 ppl need to look at the bigger picture here and quit being so short sighted.

OP is T1, shocking.

Try playing outside of T1 pal.

Pendragon.8735:

Roamers domain used to be entire map, with the chaos and unpredictable nature of that in interacting with larger groups or even zergs. Heck you could divert half a zerg to chase you if you wanted.

Now it seems like they just want to shove all the roamers into thunderdome in the middle and the rest of the map is for the zergers. I think there are actually less options for playing the terrain to your advantage now, in the way that a good roamer could really master.

Well said, the new patch and change to the maps has really hurt the good roamers and the amount of chaos we can cause with camps, and tying up zergs on goose chases.

This is just one more reason why the company should have a public test server, a lot of their mistakes could be caught this way. So far have they done a patch that has not had a mistake in it? Ironhide bug as an example.

Everyone on T1 loves it, surprise surprise.

Xcom.1926:

Everyone on T1 loves it, surprise surprise.

I hate it.

Xcom.1926:

Everyone on T1 loves it, surprise surprise.

No I will say not everyone on T1 loves it. Most of the people that actually LIKE fair and fun skin of your teeth fights hate this.

Stacking, chest thumping when they 10v1 someone and laugh tier 1 players love it. I dont blame most on Tier 1 for the fools.

In my current match, the server that controls the most points on the map has no buff, the server that controls the least amount of points controls has two buffs and I’ve seen a lot small ops combat and five man teams fighting it out for the buff.

I’ve seen times when coverage was dramatically skewed in one server’s favour and that server had the most points and three orbs, but those times were always a write off.

I’ve seen a lot of positives from this last update and I’m yet to see a dramatic snowballing effect (the only time I’ve seen the orbs snowball are times when servers were already spawn camping you, so effectively very little changed).

Are you guys all idiots or something? The OP was talking about how much fun the combat is in the center because of its design. OP never once mentioned the buff. I love the redesign. Zergs are essentially useless there because you can easily outmaneuver them. You can usually find small combat all around. It’s also really fun to just ran around in.

nielscase.6258:

mistsim.2748:

HOPE everyone else is having a lot of fun!

Your topic says “New BL’s Are A Huge Success”. So what is it, you HOPE they are successful, or they ARE successful. I HOPE you recognize there ARE large differences between the two words..

I can’t believe you just wrote that. Did you even read it? Did you comprehend his post? I don’t think you did. Read it again.

Sorry you got caught in the bloodlust in the forums Mistsim. I appreciate your post.

Everyone else needs to take a break from the computer.

The OP must be joking. There doesn’t seem to be many people playing.

Yes, the new area is very fun! It’s a roamer’s playground.

Since I can see some people in this thread saying that the only way new buff is viable is in T1 matches I’ll quote my question from the other thread that unfortunately received no reply… Maybe there’s more wisdom to be shared on this thread, who knows:

Freeelancer.2860:

I’m from Picken Square server. We’re currently ranked nr.3 server, but until last week we were on steady 6th place and allot of people don’t exactly know how we suddenly jumped 3 positions but w/e.
We are playing against Vizunah Square which finished more then 2/3rds of their matchups as nr.1 server and Augury Rock which is placed 9th…

So, as far as the proposed leagues go, in our case we have a full spread.. Statistically the best server in the world, a server in the middle of the league and a server at the very bottom… One would assume that from all the doomsday prophecies that are floating on the forums Vizunah would keep all 3 buffs almost all of the time with Piken Square nabbing an orb every now and then, but the reality of the situation is that as soon as people started logging in (~9AM GMT) the orbs constantly changed hands… I’ve kept a close eye on the orbs situation and so far I’ve yet to see anyone get more then 2 orbs.. In fact, for the last hour or two it is Augury Rock that holds 2 orbs…

@all angry people: Could you please help me understand what am I missing ?

Konrad Curze.5130:

kefro.9312:

Is this a troll post? Or real?
Im not sure…

its prolly a clueless coattailer thinking hes the shiz beause he transferred to some top3 server

been in JQ for a very long time, try again.

I also love the new bloodlust areas (I call them just “ruins”). Perfect for small-team fights. Yes, zergs come there every now and then but most of the time they’re just passing by quickly or capping the buff and moving on. You can resume your roaming after they’re gone again.

There are no phat lewt to be had in the ruins and that’s great! It means the zerg train will never ever stick there for long, because we all know they don’t play WvW for the PvP.

Freeelancer.2860:

Since I can see in this thread allot of people saying that the only way new buff is viable is in T1 matches I’ll quote my question from the other thread that unfortunately received no reply… Maybe there’s more wisdom to be shared on this thread, who knows:

Freeelancer.2860:

I’m from Picken Square server. We’re currently ranked nr.3 server, but until last week we were on steady 6th place and allot of people don’t exactly know how we suddenly jumped 3 positions but w/e.
We are playing against Vizunah Square which finished more then 2/3rds of their matchups as nr.1 server and Augury Rock which is placed 9th…

So, as far as the proposed leagues go, in our case we have a full spread.. Statistically the best server in the world, a server in the middle of the league and a server at the very bottom… One would assume that from all the doomsday prophecies that are floating on the forums Vizunah would keep all 3 buffs almost all of the time with Piken Square nabbing an orb every now and then, but the reality of the situation is that as soon as people started logging in (~9AM GMT) the orbs constantly changed hands… I’ve kept a close eye on the orbs situation and so far I’ve yet to see anyone get more then 2 orbs.. In fact, for the last hour or two it is Augury Rock that holds 2 orbs…

@all angry people: Could you please help me understand what am I missing ?

Euro is completely different from NA. I had an account on euro and believe me when I say the difference between you being 6 (now 3) vs. 1 is not even remotely close to the lopsided battles in NA. I really can’t even expect you to understand the difference without you spending a week here on the rank 6 and vs a rank 1. that and I’m sure your low ranks can attest to the outcome of being kitten d before and after the buff.

Try a transfer for a week when one of the top 3 are not facing one another … euro and NA are night and day my friend.

Try to remember you have different regions, french, german, spanish, and english … we have an english region so theres a huge difference, we don’t have 3 other regions gathering on 13 different servers (that is how many non english dedicated servers you have). You simply cannot compare Euro with NA in terms of Server numbers. We have 3 servers people flock to, you have 5 french servers, 7 german servers, 1 spanish, and 14 … english dominant ? servers. thats a very large spread difference from 24 english servers.

I understand what you are trying to say with servers for specific languages and how they serve to spread out the population a bit more. However, looking at the matchups I don’t see that much of a difference between EU and NA loopsided battles… Certainly not enough to warrant the possibility of Bloodlust buff being completely broken on NA while for some reason working as intended on EU…

Furthermore I just looked at the most loopsided battle on NA (t8) and atm one server has 2 buffs and 1 server has 1 buff, and both servers are losing to the winner of the tier by 200k points difference…

I actually dislike the design of the new area. It’s too busy — too much stuff. It’s too easy for people to run away, especially those with stealth.

Lord Kuru.3685:

I actually dislike the design of the new area. It’s too busy — too much stuff. It’s too easy for people to run away, especially those with stealth.

That’s why it has those capture points.

You’d never catch a stealth roamer thief anyway, with or without the ruins.

ArkAngel.7940:

Are you guys all idiots or something? The OP was talking about how much fun the combat is in the center because of its design. OP never once mentioned the buff. I love the redesign. Zergs are essentially useless there because you can easily outmaneuver them. You can usually find small combat all around. It’s also really fun to just ran around in.

nielscase.6258:

mistsim.2748:

HOPE everyone else is having a lot of fun!

Your topic says “New BL’s Are A Huge Success”. So what is it, you HOPE they are successful, or they ARE successful. I HOPE you recognize there ARE large differences between the two words..

I can’t believe you just wrote that. Did you even read it? Did you comprehend his post? I don’t think you did. Read it again.

Sorry you got caught in the bloodlust in the forums Mistsim. I appreciate your post.

Everyone else needs to take a break from the computer.

I am sorry that you did not comprehend my post. He can not report on the fact that the BL’s are a huge success, he has nothing to support that. He can say that he likes the map, but not announce that they work for EVERYONE.

Freeelancer.2860:

Furthermore I just looked at the most loopsided battle on NA (t8) and atm one server has 2 buffs and 1 server has 1 buff, and both servers are losing to the winner of the tier by 200k points difference…

Of course this will occur because the winner has already been decided. So the winning server is just cruising to victory and don’t need to hold the buffs anymore. But when the match was fresh, the dominant server held all 3 buffs most of the time to get the big lead. You have to observe how the match plays out throughout the entire week, not at the end when it’s pretty much over and no one cares.

In general I like the changes although the new map elements don’t really mesh organically with the rest of the map.

That said, the Bloodlust stat-increases are absolutely unnecessary and I have no idea why ANet went ahead with it despite early complaints. Getting points for finishers is reason enough to want the buff.

Bloodlust already accounts for 25-35% of the overall scoring. Having increased stats is just uncalled for.

Sreoom.3690:

New BL’s Are A Huge Success

I agree. Well designed ANET. Much more fun in the middle!

All the people saying they are a success are in Tier 1. Tier 1 is not indicative of the state of WVW. Bloodlust is a bad idea, but not nearly as kittenerver balance problems. Bloodlust is made worse by the greater issue of server balance.

There are ways to fix it, Anet just doesn’t seem to see it as a problem, which is causing people to quit.

huge success u say? well guess what thats your opinion
if u like em so much how about u go do some hotjoin i heard running arround capping points its fun

they could have done so many different things …

well if hotjoin was anything like the new BL’s, id go! the ruins offer incredible terrain cover, high ground advantage, water combat, all in one map. and due to the way gear works, wvw has more viable builds compared to spvp.

they basically took our major complaint “wvw is all mindless zerg” and SOLVED it. BL’s are no longer zergy. theyre a big playground for roaming gangs. well done i say.

I’m amazed devon havent replied to this post yet. Usually he praises those who give compliments and ignores the rest that brings up negative points about this patch.

Bloodlust killed GvG cries

Bloodlust seems to have killed more than GvG. I just logged in to find our Borderlands deserted, played for 10 minutes without seeing any other player and didn’t get any response on map chat.

BlackDevil.9268:

I’m amazed devon havent replied to this post yet. Usually he praises those who give compliments and ignores the rest that brings up negative points about this patch.

Well, why would he praise only a fraction of the WvW community? Because we are that right? We forum posters are insignificant to the entire WvW population so not important at all. Why listen to us? Because we care about the game and therefor put our concerns regarding updates into words on the forum? No, we are the minority and don’t speak for everyone. Or that is what he says.

What he doesn’t realize is that we represent a large part of the community. Dude in mapchat on our server said GvG got what it deserves, he got bashed to kitten and dissapeared from the map within the minute. Devon forgets that a game is build on its hardcore players and not on the casuals. So he better starts listening to us. But he can keeps those plugs in his ears and roll in the small amount of feedback feeding his ego.

I think I gave him reason enough to ignore this topic aswel now. And you are a 100% right BlackDevil, tons of constructive posts out there getting ignored while pointless topics get responded in. This game needs some good community managers and fast. And way better communication with its players. That sad stream couple of weeks ago was kinda pathetic imo. But enough about that.

I have no interest in seeing Devon post, as he will merely dodge roll the overwhelming concerns brought up by this community. Dude must have unlimited vigor.

Gravy.7589:

I have no interest in seeing Devon post, as he will merely dodge roll the overwhelming concerns brought up by this community. Dude must have unlimited vigor.

Haha, well played sir!

Most players like the map changes…however most dislike bloodlust. For even matched tiers (1 and 8 in NA and tier 2 in EU) bloodlust is fine. For uneven tiers all the rest) it is not fine. For 14 tiers it is only making the strong stronger.

http://mos.millenium.org/na
http://mos.millenium.org/matchups

So while it is okay for 3 tiers total…it is not for 14 tiers….or 9 servers it’s ok, but for 42 servers it is not.

Hmmm 9vs42……anyone (well except those able to do anything about it) can see it’s not a good thing.