Guild Wars 2

https://youtu.be/XoYrN3E1ExU?t=29m46s are you kidding me? “It will completely destroy wooden gates to keeps, if not repaired”

Wha… How?…. WHY?!
The devs think that small groups of people will be fighting over this in the middle (they said so in the stream), but holy kitten is this thing going to be absolute chaos. Entire zergs of 40+ on each side will be fighting for this thing. And if one server doesn’t send a whole zerg into the middle, they will automatically lose, I can already tell.

Servers without heavy WvW presence will be COMPLETELY demolished by self-destroying gates. Enemy servers will have to use even LESS supply in order to take keeps/towers, making servers that have zero supply due to wasting it all on attempted repairs to have no supply for attempting to take towers and keeps.

A concept like this super-weapons favors the strong over the weak, or even the cunning. You can’t “ninja” this under the nose of heavy WvW servers, because they will have entire groups dedicated to this during server down times.

Anet said that they wanted WvW to feel like you are participating in an RTS, but there is no mechanic an any RTS in existence that allows the automatic destruction of buildings over periods of time.

In my opinion just stay calm and see how things will play out.
It could end up being as awful as people think it will be, in which case ANET will probably remove it from the new Borderlands, even if it will take 6 months until they do so…
But it also has a few advantages for the smaller teams, the huge servers will have to dedicate quite a few people to do the event, which will split up the enemy zerg for 15+ minutes. This will increase the fighting chance of smaller servers, because now they either face less enemies while taking objectives or they have to fight less enemies while trying to do the event.
Besides if you only have 5 people on your side and the enemy has 50+ then the event doesn’t matter, because the bigger server will easily control the entire map without it anyway.

Tynyss.8237:

It could end up being as awful as people think it will be, in which case ANET will probably remove it from the new Borderlands, even if it will take 6 months until they do so…

I’m going to pick this point out of your post, because if past behavior from Anet is any indication, they absolutely do not like admitting they were wrong about something. It’s just not in the company culture genepool. Especially a massive feature like this that many hours and development dollars were likely put into developing. For better or worse, we’re going to be stuck with it.

Ark Bladesteele.2943:

Tynyss.8237:

It could end up being as awful as people think it will be, in which case ANET will probably remove it from the new Borderlands, even if it will take 6 months until they do so…

I’m going to pick this point out of your post, because if past behavior from Anet is any indication, they absolutely do not like admitting they were wrong about something. It’s just not in the company culture genepool. Especially a massive feature like this that many hours and development dollars were likely put into developing. For better or worse, we’re going to be stuck with it.

Not necessarily, they also removed the old orb mechanic from WvW and even if they don’t remove it, they will probably nerf it like the ruin buff if it would really become a problem.

Tynyss.8237:

Ark Bladesteele.2943:

Tynyss.8237:

It could end up being as awful as people think it will be, in which case ANET will probably remove it from the new Borderlands, even if it will take 6 months until they do so…

I’m going to pick this point out of your post, because if past behavior from Anet is any indication, they absolutely do not like admitting they were wrong about something. It’s just not in the company culture genepool. Especially a massive feature like this that many hours and development dollars were likely put into developing. For better or worse, we’re going to be stuck with it.

Not necessarily, they also removed the old orb mechanic from WvW and even if they don’t remove it, they will probably nerf it like the ruin buff if it would really become a problem.

They removed the orbs because they took the easy way out instead of finding a way to deal with the fly hackers. Which reminds me, they will have the same fly hacking problems with this mechanic. I’m half expecting them to have created this mechanic because it sounds cool to potential buyers while knowing they will remove it after a month or two when the fly hacking problem comes back.

I know right!

One weapons to destroy them all!

This objective will be the mos sieged thing ever! Forget having to go and ram down a fate or cata or treb a wall, just hold this thing with your entire zerg, and every single enemy gate will slowly be destroyed!

This is probably the worst thing they have ever done, along with added even more PvE into WvW.

Just destroying wooden gates isn’t all that impressive though. Most borderland upgraded towers have the better gates. Plus if you’re repairing it you will counter the effect of the weapon.

It’s not as clear-cut as you make it out to be.

It sounds way to pve-like to me. Havent played it of course it seems it will help heavy populated servers even more, again….

Did they not say in the preview that the orbs needed to charge the new super weapon where handed in to NPC’s in several locations to stop 1 big zerg from dominating, also if 1 big zerg is in the middle of the map trying to cap this and become successful, smaller havoc groups who are nearer to towers etc, can run in and cap them before said zerg gets close to them, meaning it was all in vain…

Also did people not keep asking for open field battles, let the zergs battle it out, and let the smaller havoc groups roam the map.

I love the idea that they added so.ething to draw large battles. From what u have read on the forums, it appears to be exactly what the community has been clamoring for. Something that draws players away from karma train running and influence them to battle. In my opinion, the OP is out of touch with the feedback players have been giving.

coglin.1867:

I love the idea that they added so.ething to draw large battles. From what u have read on the forums, it appears to be exactly what the community has been clamoring for. Something that draws players away from karma train running and influence them to battle. In my opinion, the OP is out of touch with the feedback players have been giving.

And what forum would that be, the general discussion one? On the WvW forum one thing mostly gets mentioned, less pve in our wvw. Not more.

aspirine.6852:

coglin.1867:

I love the idea that they added so.ething to draw large battles. From what u have read on the forums, it appears to be exactly what the community has been clamoring for. Something that draws players away from karma train running and influence them to battle. In my opinion, the OP is out of touch with the feedback players have been giving.

And what forum would that be, the general discussion one? On the WvW forum one thing mostly gets mentioned, less pve in our wvw. Not more.

Are you suggest this will not draw players from all sides to fight over it?

coglin.1867:

aspirine.6852:

coglin.1867:

I love the idea that they added so.ething to draw large battles. From what u have read on the forums, it appears to be exactly what the community has been clamoring for. Something that draws players away from karma train running and influence them to battle. In my opinion, the OP is out of touch with the feedback players have been giving.

And what forum would that be, the general discussion one? On the WvW forum one thing mostly gets mentioned, less pve in our wvw. Not more.

Are you suggest this will not draw players from all sides to fight over it?

Well I just leave this in here:
http://mos.millenium.org/eu/matchups/map/2346

aspirine.6852:

coglin.1867:

aspirine.6852:

coglin.1867:

I love the idea that they added so.ething to draw large battles. From what u have read on the forums, it appears to be exactly what the community has been clamoring for. Something that draws players away from karma train running and influence them to battle. In my opinion, the OP is out of touch with the feedback players have been giving.

And what forum would that be, the general discussion one? On the WvW forum one thing mostly gets mentioned, less pve in our wvw. Not more.

Are you suggest this will not draw players from all sides to fight over it?

Well I just leave this in here:
http://mos.millenium.org/eu/matchups/map/2346

That doesn’t have anything to do with the question. Are you suggesting this will not influence players to fight over it?

Looks like what I expected from Anet concerning WvW more anti Melee siege, More CC, More Siege To Win… working as intended.

coglin.1867:

aspirine.6852:

coglin.1867:

aspirine.6852:

coglin.1867:

I love the idea that they added so.ething to draw large battles. From what u have read on the forums, it appears to be exactly what the community has been clamoring for. Something that draws players away from karma train running and influence them to battle. In my opinion, the OP is out of touch with the feedback players have been giving.

And what forum would that be, the general discussion one? On the WvW forum one thing mostly gets mentioned, less pve in our wvw. Not more.

Are you suggest this will not draw players from all sides to fight over it?

Well I just leave this in here:
http://mos.millenium.org/eu/matchups/map/2346

That doesn’t have anything to do with the question. Are you suggesting this will not influence players to fight over it?

I am not sure, time will tell if this is one of those things you really need on the map or if it can be ignored because it’s not that good. But another thing that favours high populated servers over lower ones, that is something we certainly do not need.

The event spawns every 3 hours so at least it can’t be flipped constantly like bloodlust, and they are adding steel doors so gate melting won’t happen as fast as it does now.

Ok I Did It.2854:

Did they not say in the preview that the orbs needed to charge the new super weapon where handed in to NPC’s in several locations to stop 1 big zerg from dominating, also if 1 big zerg is in the middle of the map trying to cap this and become successful, smaller havoc groups who are nearer to towers etc, can run in and cap them before said zerg gets close to them, meaning it was all in vain…

In order to charge the weapon, you need to kill dinosaurs that have them in there stomachs, lets assume that they will just instantly respawn upon death. They also said that you can return the crystals to ANY NPC in the area, you aren’t forced to move from NPC to NPC. So zergs will camp the mobs, and the NPC’s making sure that no one can collect besides them.

And to counter your 2nd argument, a server only needs to fill a bar up from collecting crystals. If its an entire zerg doing this then it will take at max, maybe 2 minutes. If it’s going to be a standard “collect and give me things” event then it will end just as quickly as it started. Those havok groups will have to turn around and start repairing gates, or face an onslaught of supply heavy zergs that had to do nothing for those broken/damaged doors

Players Behavior : blob for easy(er) mode, if it is easy more easy becomes.
really need to watch that stream :< if this is true

(edit)
So the game becomes more casual and useless than before….. congrats Anet.

For what ic theres still no true objective of taking over a tower unless is for a chest and ppt, that is gona get flipped few minutes later over and over again, this IMO means also no improvements in WvW.

Anet still ignoring the biggest probem……as usual.

Yeah, I don’t like this mechanic at all. Rest of the map sounds good but not this part.

First of all, they’re advertising it as a “comeback mechanic”, where smaller forces have a good chance of winning the event over a larger server. I’m just not seeing it. It’d be one thing if the event spawned in multiple, random locations (5 groups of 5 players can cover more ground than 1 group of 50 players), but it occurs in a single location at a set time with a map-wide announcement. Even with 3 drop-off points, you can still spread people out better and have larger gank squads with a numbers advantage.

Second of all, the event itself sounds really boring. Farm PvE mobs, return an item to an npc. The major secondary objective of the new map is a glorified heart quest. In addition, it’s going to heavily favor mobility and stealth, so basically thieves, nike warriors and d/d eles; guardians and necros are screwed. I’d rather have a large boss fight in the middle with a last-hit mechanic a la Chieftan / Svanir in Forest of Niflhel / Baron Nashor in LoL. Would promote more exciting fights, wouldn’t discourage certain classes and could be a REAL comeback mechanic due to kill stealing.

Finally, I don’t think havoc groups will be able to make much progress taking towers while the enemy ‘blob’ is doing the laser event. These towers are going to be much more defensible, arrow carts are as strong as they’ve ever been thanks to the FoV change, and siege disablers are still a thing. As long as 1-2 people stay in a tower, they can buy enough time for the event to finish and for help to arrive. Shrines would be up for grabs, I suppose.

This won’t be so bad, I thinks. Wooden gates will be destroyed? Upgrade gates or just repair them. Zergs go into Oasis for event? Maybe it’ll be like going Lord rush or stacking on Tranq in that you may be abandoning many objectives for it. Maybe with the dinosaurs and the unique terrain of the Oasis, it’ll be better to increase coverage thus a single zerg won’t be getting as many cores as a number of spread-out roamers might.

Plus, it might not be… optimal for zergs to commit to the event. If the zerg commits itself there, it’ll take some time to reach the gates it just blew up, thus plenty of time for the defenders to repair. Perhaps there’ll be a third dog waiting to take advantage of the losing server’s momentary opening after they lose the Oasis event, giving a smaller server a chance to swoop in and reap the winner’s reward.

It’s my thought, at least, it won’t be as simple as just winning the event, but also being able to take advantage of it.

That actually sounds sorta cool; but we’ll see. It’ll increase the value of defending stuff so gates are up to par.

ArchonWing.9480:

That actually sounds sorta cool; but we’ll see. It’ll increase the value of defending stuff so gates are up to par.

if iron gates get down to 50% a damaged (actual gate) get down easilly there are concerns with siege and supply grief on those momments.

Aeolus.3615:

ArchonWing.9480:

That actually sounds sorta cool; but we’ll see. It’ll increase the value of defending stuff so gates are up to par.

if iron gates get down to 50% a damaged (actual gate) get down easilly there are concerns with siege and supply grief on those momments.

Siege trolling is always a concern. So I do not feel it is a particularly good argument here.

coglin.1867:

Aeolus.3615:

ArchonWing.9480:

That actually sounds sorta cool; but we’ll see. It’ll increase the value of defending stuff so gates are up to par.

if iron gates get down to 50% a damaged (actual gate) get down easilly there are concerns with siege and supply grief on those momments.

Siege trolling is always a concern. So I do not feel it is a particularly good argument here.

wtf?
im not thinking in anything…. where did u get that from?
Im concerned im form a small server fighthing larger ones….

This event and the superweapon could be bad for weaker servers and it may not be balanced properly.

But I still think it is a step in the right direction, namely getting people out from behind walls and fighting other people while forcing people not to blob up so heavily.

It could result in all sorts of problems, but at least ANet is willing to try something new, and that is good.

I have no words to describe how bad this new borderland in my opinion is..
First of all It’ s too big : Immagine a low populated server trying to keep their things, immagine Vabbi in it..nonsense.
Second : Replacing the old alpine borderlands will make me and many friends of mine quit : Reason?^ I don’ t want to spend 30 min walking to find an enemy Group.
Third : Bye dears XD

Aeolus.3615:

coglin.1867:

Aeolus.3615:

ArchonWing.9480:

That actually sounds sorta cool; but we’ll see. It’ll increase the value of defending stuff so gates are up to par.

if iron gates get down to 50% a damaged (actual gate) get down easilly there are concerns with siege and supply grief on those momments.

Siege trolling is always a concern. So I do not feel it is a particularly good argument here.

wtf?
im not thinking in anything…. where did u get that from?
Im concerned im form a small server fighthing larger ones….

Then why does the post I quoted literally mention nothing other then a concern about “siege and supply” griefing?

Darkness.9732:

I have no words to describe how bad this new borderland in my opinion is..
First of all It’ s too big : Immagine a low populated server trying to keep their things, immagine Vabbi in it..nonsense.
Second : Replacing the old alpine borderlands will make me and many friends of mine quit : Reason?^ I don’ t want to spend 30 min walking to find an enemy Group.
Third : Bye dears XD

The map will be in a “rotation” meaning we won’t be forced to play it every single week, it will be semi-random. So our old BL will still be around, but I won’t be playing on my BL or any BL while this map is in rotation. I’ll stick to EB, where they can’t do something like this or face the wrath of high-tier servers making post all over the forums

I think the idea of 3 sides at least trying to make a rush when the timer pops on this thing on the map, would be fun. Particularly if the timer is not exact. Adding a level of randomness to it, can make some great 3 way fights. I like the choke points.

The whole thing looks promising.

Abe Kleine.3568:

Darkness.9732:

I have no words to describe how bad this new borderland in my opinion is..
First of all It’ s too big : Immagine a low populated server trying to keep their things, immagine Vabbi in it..nonsense.
Second : Replacing the old alpine borderlands will make me and many friends of mine quit : Reason?^ I don’ t want to spend 30 min walking to find an enemy Group.
Third : Bye dears XD

The map will be in a “rotation” meaning we won’t be forced to play it every single week, it will be semi-random.

Not sure where you got this, by all accounts that I’ve heard, it appears the Alpine BL will be retired for an undetermined period of time (which in Anet speak means it’ll never return).

Lord Kuru.3685:

Abe Kleine.3568:

Darkness.9732:

I have no words to describe how bad this new borderland in my opinion is..
First of all It’ s too big : Immagine a low populated server trying to keep their things, immagine Vabbi in it..nonsense.
Second : Replacing the old alpine borderlands will make me and many friends of mine quit : Reason?^ I don’ t want to spend 30 min walking to find an enemy Group.
Third : Bye dears XD

The map will be in a “rotation” meaning we won’t be forced to play it every single week, it will be semi-random.

Not sure where you got this, by all accounts that I’ve heard, it appears the Alpine BL will be retired for an undetermined period of time (which in Anet speak means it’ll never return).

They had originally stated they were “adding it to a rotation” for the first several weeks. It wasn’t until recently that they decided to retire the alpine map. To suggest by “all accounts” is inaccurate, but perhaps by the “most recent accounts”

dancingmonkey.4902:

Lord Kuru.3685:

Abe Kleine.3568:

Darkness.9732:

I have no words to describe how bad this new borderland in my opinion is..
First of all It’ s too big : Immagine a low populated server trying to keep their things, immagine Vabbi in it..nonsense.
Second : Replacing the old alpine borderlands will make me and many friends of mine quit : Reason?^ I don’ t want to spend 30 min walking to find an enemy Group.
Third : Bye dears XD

The map will be in a “rotation” meaning we won’t be forced to play it every single week, it will be semi-random.

Not sure where you got this, by all accounts that I’ve heard, it appears the Alpine BL will be retired for an undetermined period of time (which in Anet speak means it’ll never return).

They had originally stated they were “adding it to a rotation” for the first several weeks. It wasn’t until recently that they decided to retire the alpine map. To suggest by “all accounts” is inaccurate, but perhaps by the “most recent accounts”

Wait your kidding? I don’t remember them saying that?! I seriously liked the old map, there is no way the would retire something like that indefinitely! All the hard work someone actually went through to make the BL maps is just going to be thrown in the trash?

Whoever thought that adding a bog-standard collection quest worthy of the worst of the worst of MMO thoughtfarts to WvW needs to lose their job. I mean, seriously, what the hell?

Abe Kleine.3568:

Wait your kidding? I don’t remember them saying that?! I seriously liked the old map, there is no way the would retire something like that indefinitely! All the hard work someone actually went through to make the BL maps is just going to be thrown in the trash?

He’s not kidding. The Alpine BL maps will no longer be in rotation for the immediate future. They will be reinstated soon™.

I still find it hilarious that there is actually a forum code for TM. Only Epic Games has ever done that with their “It will be released in two weeks™”, which was a running joke that meant “we’ll get around to it when we feel like it.” There is game development history there! Google it, it’s fascinating albeit in a sad way. Wanna know the forum code? ( tm ) without the spaces.

Anet, I’ll let you know in two weeks™ whether or not this mechanic works™.

This event should be great actually for relatively balanced matchups. But for imbalanced ones I don’t see how it is going to do anything except make the already strong server(s) even stronger. And its going to make “imbalancedtimezone capping” even easier.

Ideally, all BL will have the same number of people and each server will fight over the Oasis. There will be great fights which is good. One side will win and unless one server is really more skilled than the other two (not likely) then it will probably over time be a wash. So you have great fights, get a little head start on the outter gate of an objective. Great for all.

However, in an imbalanced match where servers do not have enough people to be on every BL, the stronger server will be able to get a head start on whatever it wants. And will be able to get even more of an advantage than they already have.

Its not just the damage to the gates either. Its the supply that it takes to repair it. You’re going to have people using supply from the tower/keep to repair the gates (all of them at Gari). So perhaps an upgrad won’t complete, or when the attack comes you’re going to be down on supply.

Now there are still ways that weaker servers can have fun with Oasis. The Oasis event is a great mechanism to allow all three servers to have fun in an imbalanced matchup. This is how it should be played in the case of one strong server, two weaker servers which is the most common imbalance situation:

• Strong Server is going to dominate. They’ll have their entire BL T3 and own much of the enemy BL’s.
• Oasis Event begins.
• Weak Server A and Weak Server B should work together at the event against the Strong Server.
• Weak Server A fights the dinos and runs the orb charges (or whatever they’re called).
• Weak Server B fights Strong Server so that they don’t capture the giant cannon that will make them even more strong than they already are.
• When Server A caps the oaisis both Server A and Server B now have an advanage over the Strong Server. They both can go attack the Strong Servers stuff.
• All servers have fun.

This is the optimal way to play it because it has many advantages.

1. Prevents the Strong Server from getting even more strong.
2. Creates a “localized” balance even if they overall match is imbalanced.
3. Most importantly it allows all three servers to have fun instead of one just rolling over the other two everywhere like happens now.

If we players allow it to devolve into letting the Strong Server cap the oasis and then one Weak Server canibalizing the other like happens now, then we deservere what we get. And what we get will be more of the same – population imbalance and all the QQ and complaining about it that occurrs now.

I often wonder if Anet does not think about the imbalance in the matchups when they design something for WvW. Or if they just have faith that the players will use it the way Anet is thinking. If they do, Anet aparently has more faith in people than I do because I would bet that players won’t use the Oasis as I’ve described above but will just let the strong server cap it and then canabalize the weak.