Guild Wars 2

how do you guys feel about this?

personally, I love the visuals of the map, but given the verticality and chokes, I don’t think it will be possible to enjoy the epic open field fights we used to have. im not sure how I feel about this yet.

A nice little mixture of eotm and skyhammer...

The map is definitely a bigkittento anyone who disliked EotM.

Well you should be fighting for objectives open field is fun at all but often pointless unless its for an objective. You do understand wvw is not a death match game right?

Jski.6180:

open field is fun at all but often pointless

Really? Do you realize how nonsensical that sounds?

Having fun in a video game is never pointless, it’s the ENTIRE point of playing….

reserving judgment for when i can see more than single ray flybys

the camera angles are designed to make the scenery look good, not to show off gameplay

dank.3680:

Jski.6180:

open field is fun at all but often pointless

Really? Do you realize how nonsensical that sounds?

Having fun in a video game is never pointless, it’s the ENTIRE point of playing….

You removing the part that ties it together making it sound nonsensical. Fun can be any thing for a lot of ppl and vary as much as any thing. Even trolling in /t or /m is “fun” for some ppl in wvw but that dose not mean wvw is about trolling ppl in /t or /m lol.

Jski.6180:

Well you should be fighting for objectives open field is fun at all but often pointless unless its for an objective. You do understand wvw is not a death match game right?

Open field zerg fights, for me, is the most fun part of wvw.
This looks more like fear monkeys heaven. But to be honest I’ve seen so little of the map it would be wise to keep an open mind about it.

aspirine.6852:

Jski.6180:

Well you should be fighting for objectives open field is fun at all but often pointless unless its for an objective. You do understand wvw is not a death match game right?

Open field zerg fights, for me, is the most fun part of wvw.
This looks more like fear monkeys heaven. But to be honest I’ve seen so little of the map it would be wise to keep an open mind about it.

So its ok for ppl to one shot ppl in bombs but using effect cc is going too far? Some of the most fun ppl have is banishing ppl off high places. Yes you should reward ppl for being smart and laying down effect cc in the right places and YES you should be punished for not reacting in time to counter this cc or simply run “zerg bind” into this cc.
Its getting realty confusing mindless zerging is hard counter by smart cc but ppl hate both mindless zerging and effects that counters it so… what do ppl want?

Jski.6180:

dank.3680:

Jski.6180:

open field is fun at all but often pointless

Really? Do you realize how nonsensical that sounds?

Having fun in a video game is never pointless, it’s the ENTIRE point of playing….

You removing the part that ties it together making it sound nonsensical. Fun can be any thing for a lot of ppl and vary as much as any thing. Even trolling in /t or /m is “fun” for some ppl in wvw but that dose not mean wvw is about trolling ppl in /t or /m lol.

I think his point is that WvW is becoming less about fighting and more about sitting in circles. WvW is plastered defined as mass pvp, and anets map designs have favored anti mass pvp gameplay. Everyone who has voiced their opinion has wanted more open terrain to fight and less doors to hit, and it seems Anet has gone in the opposite direction, twice.

People play PvP to actually fight other players, preferably in non gimmicky ways (sky hammer and eotm being prime examples of what people don’t want). And the thing is, for all the experimentation Anet likes to claim it does, why not experiment with an open flat BL with 1 objective and have everyone go for it?

DoctorWunderbar.5037:

Jski.6180:

dank.3680:

Jski.6180:

open field is fun at all but often pointless

Really? Do you realize how nonsensical that sounds?

Having fun in a video game is never pointless, it’s the ENTIRE point of playing….

You removing the part that ties it together making it sound nonsensical. Fun can be any thing for a lot of ppl and vary as much as any thing. Even trolling in /t or /m is “fun” for some ppl in wvw but that dose not mean wvw is about trolling ppl in /t or /m lol.

I think his point is that WvW is becoming less about fighting and more about sitting in circles. WvW is plastered defined as mass pvp, and anets map designs have favored anti mass pvp gameplay. Everyone who has voiced their opinion has wanted more open terrain to fight and less doors to hit, and it seems Anet has gone in the opposite direction, twice.

People play PvP to actually fight other players, preferably in non gimmicky ways (sky hammer and eotm being prime examples of what people don’t want). And the thing is, for all the experimentation Anet likes to claim it does, why not experiment with an open flat BL with 1 objective and have everyone go for it?

What is pvp other then fighting other players if your using a wall or positioning to your advantages it dose not make it any less of a pvp. If ppl would sit and def in EotM and not simply go there for items spam it would be a fun map to play. In a lot of ways during the first few weeks of EotM it was a good map until the pve set in where ppl found that running rewards was better then trying to win out the map for that 2hr?.

Even in open field drivers are looking for points of advantages in both the lay of the land and the way the other teams group is positioning.

Just standing in a point to cap should never happen it should be always defed in one way or another when it is not being defed that is when there is a problem. So yes objective are the aim for wvw not a k/d ratio. Its about holding and taking objectives at the same time.

i feel the verticality and sharp angles of the map will definitely break zergs apart. i hope there is still room for open field fights somewhere, hopefully over some important objective!

Jski.6180:

DoctorWunderbar.5037:

Jski.6180:

dank.3680:

Jski.6180:

open field is fun at all but often pointless

Really? Do you realize how nonsensical that sounds?

Having fun in a video game is never pointless, it’s the ENTIRE point of playing….

You removing the part that ties it together making it sound nonsensical. Fun can be any thing for a lot of ppl and vary as much as any thing. Even trolling in /t or /m is “fun” for some ppl in wvw but that dose not mean wvw is about trolling ppl in /t or /m lol.

I think his point is that WvW is becoming less about fighting and more about sitting in circles. WvW is plastered defined as mass pvp, and anets map designs have favored anti mass pvp gameplay. Everyone who has voiced their opinion has wanted more open terrain to fight and less doors to hit, and it seems Anet has gone in the opposite direction, twice.

People play PvP to actually fight other players, preferably in non gimmicky ways (sky hammer and eotm being prime examples of what people don’t want). And the thing is, for all the experimentation Anet likes to claim it does, why not experiment with an open flat BL with 1 objective and have everyone go for it?

What is pvp other then fighting other players if your using a wall or positioning to your advantages it dose not make it any less of a pvp. If ppl would sit and def in EotM and not simply go there for items spam it would be a fun map to play. In a lot of ways during the first few weeks of EotM it was a good map until the pve set in where ppl found that running rewards was better then trying to win out the map for that 2hr?.

Even in open field drivers are looking for points of advantages in both the lay of the land and the way the other teams group is positioning.

Just standing in a point to cap should never happen it should be always defed in one way or another when it is not being defed that is when there is a problem. So yes objective are the aim for wvw not a k/d ratio. Its about holding and taking objectives at the same time.

It doesn’t make it any less pvp but it makes it less skill based which is what people want in pvp. If there was a BL that had you spawn at the bottom of the pit, and the other server spawned on top and could free cast, would you still call that pvp?

Map design is a factor in that process, design a map in which there is less reliance on non user objects and more on player actions. Players want outcomes less reliant on external factors and the new map seems to be more external factors than user actions.

I just want the community to note, that people called this to the developer’s attention long before beta even started. So plenty of time to have fixed this issue beforehand. But on release. ..well…

I expected a new map for pvp, not a jumping puzzle.

Jski.6180:

dank.3680:

Jski.6180:

open field is fun at all but often pointless

Really? Do you realize how nonsensical that sounds?

Having fun in a video game is never pointless, it’s the ENTIRE point of playing….

You removing the part that ties it together making it sound nonsensical. Fun can be any thing for a lot of ppl and vary as much as any thing. Even trolling in /t or /m is “fun” for some ppl in wvw but that dose not mean wvw is about trolling ppl in /t or /m lol.

I removed the part irrelevant to my reply. The fact that you dictated the way that people should play was not what I wanted to respond to.

You said that open field fighting is fun (I agree), but that it was pointless, that is what I wanted to respond to, so that is what I quoted.

“You do understand wvw is not a death match game right?”

This part ties with the first part that I wasn’t responding to so I also removed it. But I’ll add now that anet did add in the ability to gain world score by stomping so it seems to me that it would also be plenty viable. A tower is how many points a tick? How many stomps could potentially happen in a tick time? I think it’s pretty underrated.

DoctorWunderbar.5037:

It doesn’t make it any less pvp but it makes it less skill based which is what people want in pvp. If there was a BL that had you spawn at the bottom of the pit, and the other server spawned on top and could free cast, would you still call that pvp?

Map design is a factor in that process, design a map in which there is less reliance on non user objects and more on player actions. Players want outcomes less reliant on external factors and the new map seems to be more external factors than user actions.

Its a different type of skill not less or more skill. If you know the lay of the land and use it to your advantages that IS a pvp skill. At the same time it show that the other person is lacking such skill.
Think of it this way its like playing a twitch/ fast type of class vs playing a timed/prep class. Setting things up and contorting the map is a type of skill much like being good at making fast chose and executing them before the other person can react.

For some people they should make a flat squared map without even a tree cause LOS break zerg apart, so that could be called pvp -.-

So It’s a combination of both EOTM and Skyhammer?

Nick.6972:

So It’s a combination of both EOTM and Skyhammer?

Best spvp map + best wvw map = perfection.

Jski.6180:

Well you should be fighting for objectives open field is fun at all but often pointless unless its for an objective. You do understand wvw is not a death match game right?

You can apologize for ANET all you want, but that doesn’t make this a good map.

Did they post any new video about the new map?

style.6173:

Jski.6180:

Well you should be fighting for objectives open field is fun at all but often pointless unless its for an objective. You do understand wvw is not a death match game right?

You can apologize for ANET all you want, but that doesn’t make this a good map.

Apologize? I am just trying to point out the point of WvW. Its like going into wvw and being offended that you cant 1v1 ppl becuse no one wants to give you a fight but do what they want to do and play wvw for its objective the bulk of the map.

xDudisx.5914:

Did they post any new video about the new map?

http://dulfy.net/2015/03/07/gw2-upcoming-wvw-desert-borderlands-map-trailer/

Here you go not sure if your asking for this or something newer.

I haven’t watched trailers for the new map until just now – after seeing this thread.
I did now. I think I won’t miss on anything by not buying the expansion.

I’m reserving judgement until I see it but the description sounds terrible for roamers and open field fighting. I’m worried they are trying to cater to the eotm k-train crowd.

Puck.9612:

I’m reserving judgement until I see it but the description sounds terrible for roamers and open field fighting. I’m worried they are trying to cater to the eotm k-train crowd.

Its sounds like K-trains will not work there with all the anty-zerg tools.

I don’t think the new WvW map is limited to the expansion from what I remember of Angry Joe’s interview with Colin and they have not even decided how it will figure into the “rotation” or what “rotation” is going to mean yet so we need you WvW centric sorts to be vocal (& reasonable) during the beta process.

The map looks very pretty with some funky new stuff but so did EotM which became a farmfest mainly due to players overly efficient reaction. TBH we can have open field WvW in a lot of places if we choose to but the problem is people go where the rewards are biggest, not where the fights are the most fun which is kinda sad but human nature. Not a fan of tons of gimmicks or pinch points either but if helps to break up the zergs a bit that could be a good thing imo. I really do like teh pretteh

Jski.6180:

Puck.9612:

I’m reserving judgement until I see it but the description sounds terrible for roamers and open field fighting. I’m worried they are trying to cater to the eotm k-train crowd.

Its sounds like K-trains will not work there with all the anty-zerg tools.

That’s what people thought about eotm as well but when everyone is being funneled into certain points it creates blobs.

On the current maps you can attack objectives from multiple sides, bypass a tower that is heavily sieged to make people come out and fight, etc.

If areas are cut off until you bust a tower everyone will be forced to the same spot.

Puck.9612:

Jski.6180:

Puck.9612:

I’m reserving judgement until I see it but the description sounds terrible for roamers and open field fighting. I’m worried they are trying to cater to the eotm k-train crowd.

Its sounds like K-trains will not work there with all the anty-zerg tools.

That’s what people thought about eotm as well but when everyone is being funneled into certain points it creates blobs.

On the current maps you can attack objectives from multiple sides, bypass a tower that is heavily sieged to make people come out and fight, etc.

If areas are cut off until you bust a tower everyone will be forced to the same spot.

True but EotM was way too big so it was a lot harder to counter the zerg there was also a bit too few small gaps as in there was a small gap but then the rest was a very big open field. If holding something in the new map makes hard cc that hits the other team such as the gust of wind and walls to pop up and over all less open field to plow though you may see K-trans too ineffective as moving though the map for it to be worth to run. That and we still have EotM right unless the new map gives better rewards then EotM there is no way ppl will K-tarn in the new map over EotM.

Didn’t appear any different then the areas around Bay, hills, garrison, or the spawn areas in EB.

Seems to me the complaints here so far are based off of very very limited areas, covered in a very very short video. I can make a video 5X as long showing equally vertical or narrow areas with the maps we have now.

All these assumptions before it ever becomes real. I will reserve judgement until I see it in game.

Skyhammer+EOTM.. Just what we all wanted! zomg

I like chokepoints and jumping mechanics.

PariahX.6970:

TBH we can have open field WvW in a lot of places if we choose to but the problem is people go where the rewards are biggest

exactly, which is why open field fights should be rewarded by winning some sort of objective that gives gear/gold in addition to ppt for your server. this would also make gvg’s more relevant as well

What I dislike about Eotm is the amount of land you actually can walk is very restricted.
Basically there’re annoying cannons everywhere, gates everywhere to block entrance. It takes some times to find an engagement thanks to the complicated, yet restricted map set up.

Roaming is going to be a b_tch.

You can still have open field fights on the other maps… honestly I like it, I think it looks really cool compared to the current maps.

I will play on the existing borderland maps as much as I can. When this update goes live, I will probably spend much less time with this game as the queues and lag on EB is just too high.

I very much dislike maps, which are full of gimmicks and have too much verticality and choke points. I hate jumping puzzles and forcing them on the player base and maps where there is the constant fear to fall down. It should be obvious that such map design encourages players to use troll builds, like fear necro. Also the map looks horrible for roamers and solo roaming is what I do. EotM, Skyhammer and Dry Top are the worst maps of this game.

Now we can just cross our fingers and hope Stronghold gets a separate queue.

I’ll be dusting off a necro and making a fearmancer with as much boon stripping thrown in as possible to remove those stacks of stability- along with about 40% of our squad.

Fear wars!

I dunno,
It looked pretty cool, however I could see YB getting a collective “arousing experience” for all the possible AC placements…
I reserve judgement until it is playable… then I will complain.

the moment i saw that wooden bridge……. Oh no EotM v.2

From what I’ve seen, I’m very disappointed. I hope I see less Skyhammer tomfoolery and more areas that allow for free movement. Time will tell.

I don’t really understand this concern. Why is this a problem if there if less open fields on the new maps? The old maps are basically vast open maps, so there’s no need to add new borderlands with exactly the same topology. I’m pleased that something new will be added to WvW, and I can’t wait to see how it will play out!

I know the npcs n stuffs is probably yet to be implemented but just realised something. From what we can see its good there are no random mobs around however, having no ambients around is going to be hell for solo roaming condi necros.. and will put us off the map tbh. (To build lifeforce)

I think they took exactly what the WvW population didn’t want, another EoTm style map, and the game will suffer because of it imo.

Everyone who like smashing autoattack in zerg can stay in older maps.

WvW was meant for large scale warfare not 5v5, that is what spvp is for.

wvw need to have more strategic play less big zergs more medium size and for these who dont like eotm style map use stability stealth teleport portal dont just run like headless chiken. Current wvw maps are boring.

Agree that the video doesn’t show enough for us to make an accurate assessment, BUT judging from what we’ve seen so far and Anet’s comments about the map, it does seem like the map focuses too much on vertical drops and choke points.

This is the completely WRONG way to design a WvW map. I hope Anet takes the overwhelmingly negative feedback against EotM/Skyhammer map design into serious consideration before releasing this new map.

This looks really suspicious considering what an unmitigated disaster EotM is.

The best part about the current WvW maps is how simple they are, so we can concentrate on fighting each other. I get the feeling they’re trying to force us in to a playstyle WvWers have repeatedly said we don’t want.