I cant wait till we get a new map. Will be refreshing after the same ole borderland we have for ages. Lets just wait and see how it plays out? Cause according to all these threads there is no room for roamers – no room for open field fights or room for zerg vs zerg and you havent set a single foot on it to see how the playerbase will play it? Jeeze i can understand why Anet does not reply that much cause really nothing is ok.
Big Babou, Ranger for life.
Madness Rises [Rise] – Banners Hold.
Don’t argue with idiots, they pull you down their level and own you with experience.
I cant wait till we get a new map. Will be refreshing after the same ole borderland we have for ages. Lets just wait and see how it plays out? Cause according to all these threads there is no room for roamers – no room for open field fights or room for zerg vs zerg and you havent set a single foot on it to see how the playerbase will play it? Jeeze i can understand why Anet does not reply that much cause really nothing is ok.
Well Anet is batting 0 for new WvW maps. We have cause to be concerned with what they think we want.
I cant wait till we get a new map. Will be refreshing after the same ole borderland we have for ages. Lets just wait and see how it plays out? Cause according to all these threads there is no room for roamers – no room for open field fights or room for zerg vs zerg and you havent set a single foot on it to see how the playerbase will play it? Jeeze i can understand why Anet does not reply that much cause really nothing is ok.
Well Anet is batting 0 for new WvW maps. We have cause to be concerned with what they think we want.
Based on the forums, they are batting 1000. You see, if you look at the threads demanding a place to play while waiting in queue times, the players flooded the forums. among the “demands” were, many choke points, destructible bridges to cut off points behind the enemy, limited actual WvW impact…………so on and so forth. It is rather amusing how they gave the community precisely what they demanded, in droves, then folks like you tell them they did it wrong. They gave what the majority demanded. So either you were in the minority, or you didn’t participate in the discussion. In either case, you are being disingenuous to claim that they are batting 0 when they gave the community precisely what they demanded. The problem is that the community both doesn’t have a clue what it wants, and is often dishonest about it.
I mean just looking at your individual post from the EotM beta information, you, yourself have very supportive comments posted about, as well as a discussion before that in which you show support of the idea of many bridges and choke points, as it would favor you as a ranger. Interesting how folks have such short memories around here.
I hope the beta test will include the wvw too. The flyby is nice and it does show some nice features. But the eotm parts with bridges I dont care for much. But perhaps it’s more 3d oriented for defenders to protect their bl.
Agree that the video doesn’t show enough for us to make an accurate assessment, BUT judging from what we’ve seen so far and Anet’s comments about the map, it does seem like the map focuses too much on vertical drops and choke points.
This is the completely WRONG way to design a WvW map. I hope Anet takes the overwhelmingly negative feedback against EotM/Skyhammer map design into serious consideration before releasing this new map.
There is no turning back now, Anet has a bad reputation for making these types of bad decisions. They have repeatedly shoved “new content” out for wvw that goes against what the majority wants of likes, they are completely out of touch with the wvw population.
1. Its brash, in fact childish to assume the full mechanics of a map having never played it.
2. The original maps will still be there.
3. Choke points and CC’s are not new. Heard of stability? Stun breaks? Dodge rolling?
I like my open field fights too. Im in a T2 fight guild that raids / scrims / gvg regularly.
Why are you gettung upset over something that hasnt happened yet especially if your preferred maps will still be there? The counters to CCs and choke points are still there and anyone who plays wvw regularly would know that.
Lol at the EOTM crticism. Eotm was a haven for roamers and fight guilds wanting to fight each other cross tiers at the beginning. Its actually a well designed map for the most part. Could probably be slightly smaller and have better fort balancing. No the issue with EOTM is not design. It is reward. Its rewards and the ease with which an up level can level oneself and earn enough badges and karma to get decent armor once they are at 80. This has turned the map into a choo choo train fest with 3 pug group running around avoiding each other. Making EOTM viable is as easy as lessening the amountof objectives, lowering the rewards and XP gain. EOTM could be great if it were for level 80s only.
Agree that the video doesn’t show enough for us to make an accurate assessment, BUT judging from what we’ve seen so far and Anet’s comments about the map, it does seem like the map focuses too much on vertical drops and choke points.
This is the completely WRONG way to design a WvW map. I hope Anet takes the overwhelmingly negative feedback against EotM/Skyhammer map design into serious consideration before releasing this new map.
There is no turning back now, Anet has a bad reputation for making these types of bad decisions. They have repeatedly shoved “new content” out for wvw that goes against what the majority wants of likes, they are completely out of touch with the wvw population.
Developers seem to listen to the player base, but just a certain part of the player base, mostly ignoring those who literally spent thousands of hours in WvWvW and really rally the entire server. In worst case the good ideas in these forums are ignored and when somebody suggests something really dumb, they grab that idea and make it real. Of course I understand that some ideas are technically very difficult to implement, but things like a different scoring, which would lead to more even match ups, are not. Arenanet also has code (used in pve) to scale events for the number of players. Why this is not used in WvWvW? Now big blobs can just stream roll over most content unless a large number of human players defend it, as few NPC guards is nothing for a zerg. Adding pve encourages the karma train. We still haven’t seen a single WvWvW specific skill balance change, even though the meta has been more or less the same since Autumn 2012. Competitive players want a sense of fairness and balance, not more gimmicks and imbalance.
To fix this problem Arenanet should have more developers whose main task is WvWvW gameplay, and really play the game mode, at least 20+ h every single week (1000+ h/year).
Deniara / Ayna – I want the original WvWvW maps back – Desolation [EU]
They don’t ignore anyone. You seem to fail to realize that listening to the majority does not mean they ignored the minority. Ideas like this are comical at best. “Ooh I played a great deal of WvW but they ignored me.” Get over yourself they didn’t ignore you. You simply had the minority view. Are you suggesting they should ignore the majority opinion when it comes to feedback? Sounds like tyranny to me.
This looks really suspicious considering what an unmitigated disaster EotM is.
The best part about the current WvW maps is how simple they are, so we can concentrate on fighting each other. I get the feeling they’re trying to force us in to a playstyle WvWers have repeatedly said we don’t want.
EOTM isnt a disaster because of the way it’s been designed, it’s a disaster because it works on a megaserver system and if doesn’t count for PPT
I’m looking forward to a new map with more choke points, it is something people asked for actually. I think it will work.
I enjoyed WP’s summary video pausing the fly-through of the new map to chat on ideas. Mind you his perspective is more from the tPvP side of things but I think he makes a lot of good points and gets a bit carried away with some of his speculations, just like a lot of others here which is really half of the fun of waiting for new stuffs if you don’t get too obsessed with it.
I am looking forward to seeing more of the map at the Rezzed panel next week before I flip too far out one way or the other. Looks like there are some really cool ideas and possibly some really messy ones so waiting to get a better idea which side got the bigger collection of them.
~Xylla~ [oG] on Ehmry Bay [PiXi]
Xyleia Luxuria / Sweet Little Agony / Morning Glory Wine / Precious Illusionz /
Near Fanstastica /Ocean at the End / Blue Eyed Hexe / Andro Queen / Indie Cindee . . .
I really don’t mind the map having some EotM features (height, distances, different “atmospheres”) but I really heartilly hate the idea of forcing PvE into WvW.
This “let’s zerg a champ” mechanic in EotM is one (if not the) reason it’s just meaningless captures. WvW is interesting because it isn’t PvE or PvP. There are mercenaries NPCs, there are some (but really few) PvE events on the map, but that’s all. The main idea is to keep keeps (lulz) and destroy the enemy team.
The new map seems so “kill these beasts to get that”. Of course, I haven’t seen the complete mechanics of the map and I’m just assuming things. But if the new Borderland is more EotM that current Borderlands… I’ll be disgusted and disheartened by WvW.
I really like the new map and i can’t wait to enjoy it.
In reply to your topic subject line, no, it does not kill open field fights, as the other maps are still relevant to the WvWvW game mode and an open field fight can happen there at any time, regardless of the new map becoming available.
I dunno, I thought what I saw looked solid. It couldn’t have been more then a very small percentage of the map. To make an assumption off of so little seems a bit unreasonable.
I enjoyed WP’s summary video pausing the fly-through of the new map to chat on ideas. Mind you his perspective is more from the tPvP side of things but I think he makes a lot of good points and gets a bit carried away with some of his speculations, just like a lot of others here which is really half of the fun of waiting for new stuffs if you don’t get too obsessed with it.
I am looking forward to seeing more of the map at the Rezzed panel next week before I flip too far out one way or the other. Looks like there are some really cool ideas and possibly some really messy ones so waiting to get a better idea which side got the bigger collection of them.
This is an example of the problem. You have people giving commentary who do not even play WvW. ANET didn’t have a lot of credibility with their WvW ideas and this seems to make things even worse.
I’m reserving judgement until I see it but the description sounds terrible for roamers and open field fighting. I’m worried they are trying to cater to the eotm k-train crowd.
So, let’s see if I understand. The new map is going to be bad for those who like large scale fights. The map is also going to be bad for those who like smaller fights. Who exactly is going to like this map then? Maybe they can buff the defense buffs and everyone who just loves sitting in a tower can do that all day long. There won’t ever be anyone to defend against, but hey, tower sitting is so fun :p
So I just re-watched the video and at about the 35 second mark all I could think was, “Oh god I hope they fixed the stacking fall damage you get from running down stairs”
The problem with eotm maps there are only small spots to siege objectives. Too easy to defend them with 1 or 2 sieges. No place to dodge, move
If they repeat this misstake that will be problem
I always love to kill people with environmental weapons and some smart terrain usage. o I welcome the change, especially as I read all the comments against it as ’I’m too noobie to take terrain into account.’ It’s one of the reasons WvW is so boring, sounds al like a bunch of babies running karmatrains and call it pvp. You’re not good enough if you cry when falling off a cliff following a tag like some brainless zombie.
Oh kitten you need to use a braincell and don’t walk blindly after eachother. Or into a chokepoint or whichever situation. There’s so many ways to counter a bad situation in WvW, but noone does so because it takes a slightly different approach and then people need to think.
Adapt, react or die. Thats what pvp is about, if you ask me. especially in WvW. Non of this clean super balanced duels. Some dirty tactics should be allowed.
“It isn’t working!” CL4P-TP
Ingame Name: Guardian Erik
with the new reward system for defense we might have k-turtles next o.O
As weird as it might feel at first, I think it would be interesting if the center WuvWuv map (currently EB) cycled between EotM, EB & the new HoT map for more variety. To make things more interesting maybe the Overflow map for WvW (currently EotM) should rotate too and up the anti by making the side that wins (for both center WuvWuv and overflow map) vote up the map flavor they want next while getting kicked for the reset. Imagine the different kind of attention that would bring to the end of matches. Heck, it might even make people in overflow try to win scores sometimes.
~Xylla~ [oG] on Ehmry Bay [PiXi]
Xyleia Luxuria / Sweet Little Agony / Morning Glory Wine / Precious Illusionz /
Near Fanstastica /Ocean at the End / Blue Eyed Hexe / Andro Queen / Indie Cindee . . .
The main problem of EotM is not the map itself, it’s its cross-server population and score meaninglessness.
If EotM replaced EB for a week, it’d be a different story. Same will go for this new map: if it gets into the regular matchup, counts for score, and is played with your server mates against the two other servers of the week, it’ll be fine. If it goes megaserver and points don’t count, then it’ll be another karma train.
The design looks too much like an sPvP map rather than a WvW map where 200+ people can be in one place. Sorry but I can’t hold my laugh at some of the dumb comments above like the one promoting “creativity in approaching fights” where you can clearly see a 1KM long bridge and endless stairs. The whole verticality is stupid. Just because it’s fun in PvE, it doesn’t mean that it suits WvW where hundreds of players are fighting.
yall just salty cause’ you’re gonna fall to your death and get killed in chokeholds. more dense and varried terrain, more tactical options. adapt or die.
. Engi & Warr . Beta > 2017 Death of PvP
currently a Boyfriend main :P Waiting To ReRoll Mystic & Forget About Tyria
If they were providing additions to WvW that suited all play styles, I’d be fine with this. But unfortunately novelties seem few and far between for WvW.
Don’t get me wrong, it’s better than nothing at all – but I’m concerned that this map will create balancing issues between borderlands and only offer new gameplay opportunities to siege monkeys.
Just saw the trailer for the new map (I had no idea what you guys were talking about).
I threw up in my mouth a little. For ages we have said how much we hate EotM, and they make a Borderlands map that is essentially… EotM. Bring your knockbacks, fears, and launches, folks. Looks like a lot of people will be going off the edges of cliffs. I can’t believe Anet thought that this is what we wanted. Unbelievable.
And did you see a bridge in the trailer were there were some sort of built-in air gust traps that were automatically knocking people off of them? WHAT. NO. Anyone ever play the Cliffside Fractal? Did ANYONE like that part? If we can’t use gliders, you’ll find me in EBG from now on.
The one thing I can fairly well guarantee won’t happen in the new map is the karma train (at least, no more than it already happens on Borderlands and EB). Why? The map actually impacts who wins., unlike Edge of the Mists.
In addition, they said they would be altering rewards to reward defense more. Well, you can’t defend something if you don’t hold it, so the best way to get rewards is to take objectives and then defend them. But if the other two servers want rewards, they will be trying to take your holdings so they can defend them.
when eotm first dropped there were some great fights, i love the map and the fact you need to watch your positioning so closely.
since the points do not matter for actual wvw, it ended up being a k-train map.
i appluad anet for bringing some of the features from eotm into a real borderland and am surprised that there is so much QQ around it. this map will set apart good players from bad; those who asess(lolfilter) the situation before a fight.
You guys are freaking out. RELAX. Falling damage can kill you when you jump off of the keep walls too.
Lets reserve judgement on what fighting on this new map will be like until we get our hands on it. I see ways to advantage defenders, long stairways, winding paths, and lots of places to set up ambushes for fights.
Some fights in contained spaces like towers, which are VERY contained if you stay on the walls, are the best fights you get to have. IMO it looks like a very fun map.
Whether it is covered in Arrow cart cancer really depends on the servers you’re matched up against. Facing YB or Germans, and you’re utterly screwed.
The new BL is a natural extension of this progression. It’s pretty clear this will not end well.
What does skyhammer have to do with WvW? if you have issues with PvP maps, your welcome to discuss it over there.
Bloodlust on the other hand was not even remotely a failure. I can only guess that you are not aware of its value. In my circles, it is well received and everyone I have spoken to enjoys it. Your circles may have a different opinion, but I see generally positive discussion on it in the forums and almost no complaints.
It will end just fine. The sky is not falling. The fact that you have to stretch, to latch on to PvP to make your WvW excuses, and your misunderstanding of bloodlust’s value, are evidence of that.
Would any one claiming the map is a problem, mind sketching it out for us? I mean you seem to believe you are familiar with it in its entirety. Would you mind drawing it in detail for the rest of us? That way we no your not simply making uninformed claims.
I mean if I was endless amounts of claims of the sky falling, I will leave a chicken little movie on repeat.
Just saw the trailer for the new map (I had no idea what you guys were talking about).
I threw up in my mouth a little. For ages we have said how much we hate EotM, and they make a Borderlands map that is essentially… EotM. Bring your knockbacks, fears, and launches, folks. Looks like a lot of people will be going off the edges of cliffs. I can’t believe Anet thought that this is what we wanted. Unbelievable.
And did you see a bridge in the trailer were there were some sort of built-in air gust traps that were automatically knocking people off of them? WHAT. NO. Anyone ever play the Cliffside Fractal? Did ANYONE like that part? If we can’t use gliders, you’ll find me in EBG from now on.
Just saw the trailer for the new map (I had no idea what you guys were talking about).
I threw up in my mouth a little. For ages we have said how much we hate EotM, and they make a Borderlands map that is essentially… EotM. Bring your knockbacks, fears, and launches, folks. Looks like a lot of people will be going off the edges of cliffs. I can’t believe Anet thought that this is what we wanted. Unbelievable.
And did you see a bridge in the trailer were there were some sort of built-in air gust traps that were automatically knocking people off of them? WHAT. NO. Anyone ever play the Cliffside Fractal? Did ANYONE like that part? If we can’t use gliders, you’ll find me in EBG from now on.
And?
Anything can be a potential problem. It could just as likely, potentially be something you enjoy exponentially. Should we hand out gold trophies based on potential? Based on your standard of doom and gloom, I guess we should. All hail consistency, right?
You guys are freaking out. RELAX. Falling damage can kill you when you jump off of the keep walls too.
. Facing YB or Germans, and you’re utterly screwed.
It’s not that kind of falling damage that bothers me. It’s the annoying bouncing falling damage you get from walking downhill and even sometimes from walking of stairs too fast. Still not fixed.
And?
Anything can be a potential problem. It could just as likely, potentially be something you enjoy exponentially. Should we hand out gold trophies based on potential? Based on your standard of doom and gloom, I guess we should. All hail consistency, right?
Agreed. I guess we’ll get some sense of the map from people at Rezzed…
screw the maps Anet need to focus on how to make people PVP and not run like headless chickens from camp to camp avoid PvP like a plague (what majority is doing)..
i dont care how maps looks like i just want people to go head to head make it more rewarding to PvP then capping a crappy tower/castle/camp..
screw the maps Anet need to focus on how to make people PVP and not run like headless chickens from camp to camp avoid PvP like a plague (what majority is doing)..
i dont care how maps looks like i just want people to go head to head make it more rewarding to PvP then capping a crappy tower/castle/camp..
They already are addressing that by adjusting the reward structure to favor defense more. You can’t defend what you don’t own, so this will ramp up the conflict.
Really? Do you realize how nonsensical that sounds?
Having fun in a video game is never pointless, it’s the ENTIRE point of playing….
Football is fun to play. It also has rules to follow and a method. If all that appeals to you is throwing and catching the ball then playing football is not for you since all you want to do is play catch.
Two zergs facing off is part of the game but it’s not THE game.
Really? Do you realize how nonsensical that sounds?
Having fun in a video game is never pointless, it’s the ENTIRE point of playing….
Football is fun to play. It also has rules to follow and a method. If all that appeals to you is throwing and catching the ball then playing football is not for you since all you want to do is play catch.
Two zergs facing off is part of the game but it’s not THE game.
What if barely anyone found playing football the way it was intended fun
Kurodaraku – Necromancer | Kuroshikon – Ranger
Officer of [DEX] Deus Ex Machina Eu and [Fus] Fus Ro Dâh
Ruins of Surmia
I think it will be great. The jungle areas look like they will host some pretty strategical fights, such as disappearing into the crevasses you see, than repositioning behind the zerg. Also, you have only seen the earth keep, I think the fire keep will have more open field fighting regions.
I don’t WvW nowadays, but when I did I often felt it was bigger zergs win. If there are choke-points, traps, and terrain advantages, then the map might make smarter zergs win. The verticality simply creates a need to understand positioning. The changing terrain will mean, apparently, that the zerg can be divided and conquered if not careful. Fast-Travelling via lava pits can allow massive maneuvers by one zerg to completely fool another.
This might actually have me coming back to WvW if it means some mass-scale strategy taking place. I find open field fights, where both sides have an even playing field, is more of a PvP concept. WvW is supposed to feel like war, and nowadays it’s known that having both armies line up and charge is not the apex of tactical thought.
Edit: Saw some comments throwing this around, and I’d like it if anyone seeing this would repeat it in regards to new things, including this map: “Adapt or Die.”
Again another CLUSTER fest… i don’t know if arena net doesn’t see it or what?
What is the purpose of 1500-200 range if from first to next corner there is 500 range..
You cannot use your range nor advantage of the classes. All this closed fights are making me tired of GW2… Stronghold.. clustered that more would be only on in age of Baroque…
Same with new WvW map, what will happen? Same as Obsidian shard.. full of traps, clustered and no one ever goes there any more..
Wish I could get back to GW1.. PvP-GvG. It feels like we are outcasted, not desired or rewarded..
i feel the verticality and sharp angles of the map will definitely break zergs apart. i hope there is still room for open field fights somewhere, hopefully over some important objective!
I think that’s the perfect mix, overall small and coordinated group on the map that can rejoin on the last final objective.
Zerging should be an option, not the standard as it is today…
