Guild Wars 2

This game caters to casual gameplay which means it caters to zerging. The players will find the easiest method to win which currently is overwhelming numbers and flash building golems, catas, or rams.

coglin.1867:

Lord Kuru.3685:

Skyhammer —> borderland bloodlust --> EoTM.

All three failed miserably.

The new BL is a natural extension of this progression. It’s pretty clear this will not end well.

What does skyhammer have to do with WvW? if you have issues with PvP maps, your welcome to discuss it over there.

Bloodlust on the other hand was not even remotely a failure. I can only guess that you are not aware of its value. In my circles, it is well received and everyone I have spoken to enjoys it. Your circles may have a different opinion, but I see generally positive discussion on it in the forums and almost no complaints.

It will end just fine. The sky is not falling. The fact that you have to stretch, to latch on to PvP to make your WvW excuses, and your misunderstanding of bloodlust’s value, are evidence of that.

Would any one claiming the map is a problem, mind sketching it out for us? I mean you seem to believe you are familiar with it in its entirety. Would you mind drawing it in detail for the rest of us? That way we no your not simply making uninformed claims.

I mean if I was endless amounts of claims of the sky falling, I will leave a chicken little movie on repeat.

I’m not sure who all these people ‘everyone I have spoken to enjoys it’, maybe it’s the other Anet employees you work with?

Check out the many posts (those that weren’t deleted at least) that said exactly what people thought of the bloodlust changes, the silly circles (with no reward for standing there like a lemon), and the removal of the fun underwater fighting area.

People are free to express their opinion about what they have seen on the new map so far- and many, many people have said how bad cliffs, etc (and now npc wind gusts, really? how lame can it get?) are. Rubbishing other’s opinions and being a white knight where everything is rosy and fine is all well and good, but try and have a little more respect for those that have played wvw at least as much as you.

Will the new map bring back all those players that have quit playing? After the first couple of weeks, probably not.

Will I be playing their a revenant ignoring fearmancers whenever I can keep my boon up, yes. Otherwise it will be a 5 man necro fearmancer team throwing entire zergs off cliffs with timed fears and boon stripping (bye bye stability).

Gaaroth.2567:

mistsim.2748:

i feel the verticality and sharp angles of the map will definitely break zergs apart. i hope there is still room for open field fights somewhere, hopefully over some important objective!

I think that’s the perfect mix, overall small and coordinated group on the map that can rejoin on the last final objective.
Zerging should be an option, not the standard as it is today…

I think the verticality and sharp angles will encourage AC and bally usage along with fears, and the only way past will be by zerging it, as a small squad won’t be able to survive.

Players are very good at figuring out where to place siege so it hits you whilst being unable to hit it…

Does anyone else actually like the EotM map? It’s huge, lots of choke points, open areas much larger than anything in WvW borderlands, and giant keeps.

I feel like if EotM had become the new borderland instead of an overflow/karmatrain map it would have been much better received and liked.

But maybe that’s just me.

Notsoperky.4291:

Will I be playing their a revenant ignoring fearmancers whenever I can keep my boon up, yes. Otherwise it will be a 5 man necro fearmancer team throwing entire zergs off cliffs with timed fears and boon stripping (bye bye stability).

So entire zergs will be countered by a strategy that can be rendered useless by stopping for 5 seconds?

Maybe that should be a hint…

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Notsoperky.4291:

Will I be playing their a revenant ignoring fearmancers whenever I can keep my boon up, yes. Otherwise it will be a 5 man necro fearmancer team throwing entire zergs off cliffs with timed fears and boon stripping (bye bye stability).

So entire zergs will be countered by a strategy that can be rendered useless by stopping for 5 seconds?

Maybe that should be a hint…

Yes usually 100 man EotM train lose like 5 players when necro come fear. Maybe wvw player is just worse player than karma trainer.

coglin.1867:

Bloodlust on the other hand was not even remotely a failure. I can only guess that you are not aware of its value. In my circles, it is well received and everyone I have spoken to enjoys it. Your circles may have a different opinion, but I see generally positive discussion on it in the forums and almost no complaints.

Bloodlust was a total failure, once the novelty wore off that was pretty much it, the only time it picks up is if it is a season and there is some scrub server in the matchup who can’t fight so are desperate to prevent getting stomped for points.

The rest of the time it is a barren wasteland 99% of the time, because most servers are simply happy enough having minor bloodlust and tends to be the default state of things, it is so empty most of the time it is not even a good place to roam.

Beyond that it is a failure in that when servers do actually bother like seasons it is just another mechanism that increases the advantage of the server with the highest pop / highest coverage, WvW is already a joke in terms of “winning” because of this issue, adding a mechanic that just makes that worse is well…

Junkpile.7439:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Notsoperky.4291:

Will I be playing their a revenant ignoring fearmancers whenever I can keep my boon up, yes. Otherwise it will be a 5 man necro fearmancer team throwing entire zergs off cliffs with timed fears and boon stripping (bye bye stability).

So entire zergs will be countered by a strategy that can be rendered useless by stopping for 5 seconds?

Maybe that should be a hint…

Yes usually 100 man EotM train lose like 5 players when necro come fear. Maybe wvw player is just worse player than karma trainer.

Not when you know when to drop the wall. Let a few pass where you’ll drop the wall. the ones following can’t see the wall. It even helps when you have smart players that pop stability. This makes the unaware think that nothing’s wroooooooooooooong.

But as for the new map….

EotM was played differently in beta than it is now as well as if it was added as a new BL map.

I just don’t know if adding choke points protected by towers will be the answer.

I do agree that a problem with the current maps is unused areas as well as towers are strategically irrelevent to take keeps. The SE tower doesn’t help in taking Hills. The SW tower is 1 of 10 spots to take bay and NE/NW towers are only 2 of 9 spots to take gari.

My concerns will be that unless there are bypass routes, a small, well sieged group could prevent a larger group from advancing. This would be like the AC buff. Remember treb wars? Two groups standing around lobbing treb shots at each other while the rest of the players not on siege waited.

I also don’t expect the beta testers to play on the new map like it will eventually be played. I also doubt this is the death of open field fights, because what really brought about the open field fights is players and guilds adapting to the game. The open field fights is what’s been keeping a lot of players coming back to WvW every week for 2 years, even though they already know that they will lose the match.

It really doesn’t matter if the new map is EtoM lite or a super fun new map. The elephant in the room is Glicko score which rewards server stacking, and the problems associated with time zone population imbalances. A new map isn’t going to fix any of that. It’s becoming very clear that the Devs have their own ideas about WvW and ours are not significant. They basically didn’t even play WvW seriously until the last tournament, and then BING suddenly they see the light and we got 2 experimental updates and now nothing.
Their focus just isn’t WvW but they can’t completely ignore it either, so we get our bone, the new map, just like our last bone, a new map called EotM. Only this will be new and improved EotM but I suspect that it will suffer the same issues of being “a Dev solution” to a problem they don’t fully understand. So, Denial, Anger, Bargaining, Depression, Acceptance… I think I am somewhere between 4 and 5 at this point…. ;P

Tspatula.9086:

It really doesn’t matter if the new map is EtoM lite or a super fun new map. The elephant in the room is Glicko score which rewards server stacking, and the problems associated with time zone population imbalances. A new map isn’t going to fix any of that. <snip>

Really the Glicko doesn’t cause the unbalanced match-ups, the problem is that the servers themselves are just so very different in “relative strength” that often there isn’t even 3 servers in the same power level to be matched up (even if you did manual matching), and even that would require a couple of servers to not get to play, since there honestly are no servers of similar power levels.

And the stacking is because the POINTS system and COVERAGE system allows it to let you “win”. NA Tier 1 might have ended up gaming the glicko system in order to make their own little world, but that to can be broken. And will if FA continues as they do.

A well thought out change to the “Points” system and how to deal with “Coverage” could potentially work. Or perhaps just give a sort of handicap system that focuses NOT on points, but simply by trying to still make it FUN to play while getting smashed in the PPT department.

I think the new map will be welcome, looking forward to explore a new map. I will see how it turns out when it is out, and I don’t think it will break WvW. The only thing I’m sad about is that this is another “borderland” map, which means we will be stuck with the “homeland” system forever, thus less map diversity.

From the video, it looks like it could go either way. I like that it’s not just blank space, at least…open field fights are fun and all but I wish they weren’t the end all be all of WvW combat.

Assuming they also make some small, quality of life changes, WvW might start being fun again and less like that thing I do because I want my server to win but that hurts and drains all of my gold.

Tibstrike.2974:

Does anyone else actually like the EotM map? It’s huge, lots of choke points, open areas much larger than anything in WvW borderlands, and giant keeps.

I feel like if EotM had become the new borderland instead of an overflow/karmatrain map it would have been much better received and liked.

But maybe that’s just me.

i love the map, not just you. i solo roam eotm often and always find myself thinking how fun it would be if it was an actual borderland where the PPT mattered.

Dont like the map so far i bet every necro will like it

But for me is more important , to be able to achieve more in WvW more rewards or other good stuff like Skins / Finisher / Posticons and so on and maybe just maybe hte flying wings from the PvE part so this map would be fun

joneirikb.7506:

Tspatula.9086:

It really doesn’t matter if the new map is EtoM lite or a super fun new map. The elephant in the room is Glicko score which rewards server stacking, and the problems associated with time zone population imbalances. A new map isn’t going to fix any of that. <snip>

Really the Glicko doesn’t cause the unbalanced match-ups, the problem is that the servers themselves are just so very different in “relative strength” that often there isn’t even 3 servers in the same power level to be matched up (even if you did manual matching), and even that would require a couple of servers to not get to play, since there honestly are no servers of similar power levels.

And the stacking is because the POINTS system and COVERAGE system allows it to let you “win”. NA Tier 1 might have ended up gaming the glicko system in order to make their own little world, but that to can be broken. And will if FA continues as they do.

A well thought out change to the “Points” system and how to deal with “Coverage” could potentially work. Or perhaps just give a sort of handicap system that focuses NOT on points, but simply by trying to still make it FUN to play while getting smashed in the PPT department.

I think the new map will be welcome, looking forward to explore a new map. I will see how it turns out when it is out, and I don’t think it will break WvW. The only thing I’m sad about is that this is another “borderland” map, which means we will be stuck with the “homeland” system forever, thus less map diversity.

Well, FA is about 150k glicko away from the lowest T1 server, on a really good week they are going to make roughly 15K, but more likely less than that. So even with a T1 server tanking, which doesn’t appear to be happening, it’s 15 weeks minimum before they catch T1 and 12-13 weeks before they even have a good chance to roll up to T1, the disparity between T2 and T3 is even worse. This and the timezone gap issues you mention are killing WvW for any serious players. The top 7 NA servers are now almost exclusively blob fests, with groups of 40-80 running around crushing everything in their wakes, I don’t care how good your 20 main skill group is, more times than not you are gonna lose the fight outnumbered 3×... But this is only a really apparent problem if you are there on a regular basis. If you are on one of those servers, you get your good fights, but more often it becomes pointless whether you are a fight guild or a PPT neckbeard, the blob is going to dominate. Based on the “Adopt a Dev” program, it’s painfully obvious that none of them play enough WvW to have this negative experience. All we get is small QoL improvements, and we’ll get our new map with the expansion. I really hope it is interesting. I go back and forth with the long switch backs of steps, but I guess that is not that different to the water gate of garison… I hope it not a giant choke map with only one WP per side…

Tspatula.9086:

I hope it not a giant choke map with only one WP per side…

It would be fun to fight over wps. Not wps that take time to build.

I hope this map isnt as bad as everyone makes it out to be. Chokes are fine as long as the area around (some or most) the objectives are open. Our current wvw maps do have plenty of chokes, plus we havent seen this map in depth.

The problem with too many chokes is siege spam. A big killer of wvw. On one hand it is the option for smaller server / time zones to even out the fight, on the other it can be abused.

Then if zergs arent as viable then roaming seems like a good idea. Except with terrain modifiers it becomes ranger wars. Classes without teleports would not do well at all, and this has always been the case. Except that terrain nullifies any other aspect other classes can use to turn the tables.