Guild Wars 2

Title says it all. I know I enjoyed my old server matchup in T4. Yes, we won every week in points because of a strong oceanic presence, but in North American prime time, we’d have even numbers and sometimes be outmanned. Was fun. Going up 2 tiers on a “random” multiplier is the worst idea in the history of gaming.

No fun = no more GEM $ for Anet from me.

No.. not even close to their worst idea ever.

That honor goes to the craptastic Downed System.

I don’t know what the hell matchup you are playing but SoS are giving us some of the best fights I’ve seen in awhile. The ppt differential is because SoS can’t field all maps during NA prime, but you guys more than hold your own on the maps you have a presence on, and it’s showing in the rating gain.

Sweet, another thread about the same thing! Let’s all copy paste our replies from other threads quick…

You don’t like it because you always used to win? Awwwww.

I’m sure we are not the only ones getting torn apart by this new system. We will still fight however I understand what hes saying. Its a big up. Now we have two severs running us over and fighting for our stuffs. So yup I can already see plenty of folks not bothering to come too wvw

Doesnt the worst idea ever go to the arrowcart buff?

Worst idea ever was trying to throw away an old boomerang……

Yorric Hunt.8214:

Doesnt the worst idea ever go to the arrowcart buff?

This,

15 characters needed.

SoS is not much different from what it has always been – win (or at least go close to it) oceanic and not as much coverage other timezones. Personally I think playing TC and FA again has been awesome and SoS has held up really well.

I know the PPT has got to be demoralizing, but I think as a whole the WvW playerbase on SoS is better than the group we have on TC. I learned to be wary of you guys very quickly on reset night. I think it would take very little additional NA coverage for you to start kittening top tier servers to the ground.

At this point we are are not even a speed bump. Watching fa and tc run right past us at one another in our bl bay too fight just proves how bad this set up is. Not sure people should be expected too show up for that kind of slaughter.

Alcyone.8695:

I know the PPT has got to be demoralizing, but I think as a whole the WvW playerbase on SoS is better than the group we have on TC. I learned to be wary of you guys very quickly on reset night. I think it would take very little additional NA coverage for you to start kittening top tier servers to the ground.

We’ve played both FA and TC several times in the past and won and lost against them (I clearly remember one matchup early on finishing behind TC in T3 or T4). We had a long relationship winning and losing against SoR too. So honestly I can’t see why anyone on SoS is complaining about the score at the moment – maybe they are new to WvW? Most seem to be enjoying the game.

I also think SoS at the moment would probably be the most competitive against the “T2” servers especially after seeing how Mag has fared against DB. I’d be interested in a matchup say between SoS, Ebay and Mag to see how these three go.

This is the first week of the new matchup systems, how do people expect their server to be put in the perfect matchup? Do you guys realise how different all the servers are coverage wise? There will rarely ever be more than 1 even matchup and you cant blame Arena net or the rating systems for that.

qq… oh no we are not winning anymore…

we are having a blast… we might not be winning on points but the only thing stopping us destroying FR and UW are the lack of numbers. I have been spending gold like water on upgrades but I am still 10 gold in profit from farming UW and FR… and no doubt they have probably had their fair amount of loot bags from me too.

Honestly SoS is doing fine the people complaining are in the very small minority (like two or three people) that are posting in multiple threads so I don’t think it represents the sentiment of most on the server. We owned about half of EB and all of our borderland last night and with FA managed to squeeze TC right back. I’m OK with that.

I’ve watched SoS fall down from T1 to T4 because people are used to winning. I thought we recovered from that mindset. I guess not.

Ask yourself what will happen when you win or lose. Our NA is limited and we still fight on for the fun of it and not the score.

someone dislikes a change. what a surprise. i am so totaly schocked.

srsly though, don’t get hung up because you are not winning, keep trying!

Just pointing out, this idea was pushed for by players, not Anet.

Aieo.2815:

I’ve watched SoS fall down from T1 to T4 because people are used to winning. I thought we recovered from that mindset. I guess not.

Ask yourself what will happen when you win or lose. Our NA is limited and we still fight on for the fun of it and not the score.

SoS’s NA people are awesome! I’ve become addicted to the MoS map http://mos.millenium.org/na/matchups/map/729 so I can keep track of what you guys are up to when I’m not on.

The only server that has grounds to grieve is SBI. They were suppose to go down to T5 this seek, and suddenly, they are thrown against a Dragonbrand that is pushing to T1, and not to mention Mag, who have walked all over them before

NevirSayDie.6235:

Just pointing out, this idea was pushed for by players, not Anet.

Not THIS idea, no.

/15 Charr

Us on Ehmry bay feel kind of ripped off. We worked really hard and earn the right to move back up to tier4 this week, then we got a bad roll and were moved BACK to tier5. Now haff of our wvw community is mad and not showing up. So now we are going to lose a lot of the rank we worked so hard to get and SBI is gaining a ton of ranking.
So what’s going to happen next week? We are going to be back in the T5 bracket and SBI is back in T4.

WVW is a competition, you move up the bracket with hard work and commitment. Anet gambling with mach ups is going to take out the competition

lunyboy.8672:

NevirSayDie.6235:

Just pointing out, this idea was pushed for by players, not Anet.

Not THIS idea, no.

/15 Charr

Which idea was pushed for by the players, then? Or was it just mindless shrieking for new servers to fight while blindly expecting them all to be perfectly equal?

grasshopper.8539:

Us on Ehmry bay feel kind of ripped off. We worked really hard and earn the right to move back up to tier4 this week, then we got a bad roll and were moved BACK to tier5. Now haff of our wvw community is mad and not showing up. So now we are going to lose a lot of the rank we worked so hard to get and SBI is gaining a ton of ranking.
So what’s going to happen next week? We are going to be back in the T5 bracket and SBI is back in T4.

WVW is a competition, you move up the bracket with hard work and commitment. Anet gambling with mach ups is going to take out the competition

I think you guys will be matched with different servers next week, just enjoy the fights

Keep QQing, but this “horrible new system” just brought you from the top of T4 to the top of T3….which is where you should have been.

Winning every week by 100k points in T4 was just silly and unbalanced. Now you’re getting properly balanced out. Be happy for the blessing that your attitude doesn’t deserve.

I’d have been just as happy to fight our butts off losing to SoR all week. This is exciting.

I don’t think it was the worst idea ever, just… if anet could share the love to T1, that’d be great. We deserve some crazy crap , too! Plus, I’m sure there’s some servers out there that would like to fight T1.

zhonnika.1784:

I don’t think it was the worst idea ever, just… if anet could share the love to T1, that’d be great. We deserve some crazy crap , too! Plus, I’m sure there’s some servers out there that would like to fight T1.

I really hope TC gets matched against one of the T1 servers soon! That’d be a really fun match, even if we lost.

Winning makes or break people. This guy isn’t used to losing; so the system isn’t making him but breaking him. He just needs to learn that it is a part of wvw to win and lose some of the time.

Crystal Desert here. We feel so sorry for you guys.

But on a serious note, we’re having the most competitive match-up we’ve ever seen and having a blast.

Deal with it.

There are three posts complaining and about 25 posts saying deal with it.

I really don’t think there’s much more to say here.

It’s not that it’s the worst idea ever, just parts of it don’t make sense at all.

Looking at http://mos.millenium.org/na/ right now, Yaks is ahead by 10-12k, yet we’re losing 3 points in evolution, CD is almost 12K down and they’re UP 60 points in evolution….how the hell are we winning yet still losing, and how is CD losing and yet still gaining so much?

FA and TC have dropped 19-23 points, while SoS has gone up almost 48, and they’re getting hammered. DB is up almost 30, Mag is down almost 69, and SBI is up almost 47, and again SBI is getting hammered.

While we’re getting some great fights with Kain and CD, I’m concerned that this first iteration of the new system will start to trend in the wrong direction, not bringing servers that are similar into parity, but creating more situations where matchups like FA/TC/SoS and DB/Mag/SI are more frequent and potentially even worse skewed. Keep in mind that these are higher tiered servers being lowered, and lower tiered servers being raised in evolution, this will in effect increase the percentage chance this matchup will happen again.

Maybe math has changed in the last 3 decades since I was in school, but the numbers don’t make sense at all. It looks like teams that are getting beaten are actually moving up, teams that are winning are moving down and you’re going to end up with T1 servers fighting T5 servers because they’re being brought into parity range through this system. I’m not saying these servers are bad or other servers are better, sometimes it’s a matter of population and coverage, but if the intent is to make matches like this happen more frequently I don’t see how it will benefit WvW overall.

~Fluffy Mcsnugglekin

Ratings should represent relative strength of the servers.

THe fact that CD is being competitive with YB and Kaineng suggests their ratings should be similar. At the moment CD’s rating is still 80 points behind Kaineng which is still too much.

Similarly at the start of this match SoS rating was 250 points behind FA which is way too much. Currently SoS is only 20K behind FA in score, which is about the same as BG/JQ are behind SoR yet the rating difference there is only 70.

This change was urgently needed as the old system was broken
and the new system is one of the best I can imagine.

Interesting that there seems to be some competition for worst WvW design decision

Arrowcarts are silly atm. Zergs are just running around setting them up everywhere because they’re the current “I Win” thing.

But the new matchup system still takes the cake. Arrowcarts affect individual battles, even if they’re being overused in most battles. The matchup system affects everyone everywhere all the time if they play WvW. Thats a lot worse in my book.

I’ll wait and see if ArenaNet either reverse the matchup decision or at least tweak it so you don’t get crazy matchups but this is gamebreaking for me.

I played on Sunday afternoon and the whole time tactics were a waste of effort. Doesn’t matter if you have 20 people being clever, mobile and inventive when an enemy kitten -squad turns up with 50 everywhere you go. I was going to log on Sunday evening and I just thought to myself, “Why…?” and went off and did something else.

Sorry for letting the side down but when the game provider is blindly determined to turn something into “Not Fun” for a large chunk of their playerbase then they can’t really be surprised that “Not Fun” means “Not Logging On”. See how much income your company makes from that business model over time, chaps.

@Roo Stercogburn: Looks like you did not understood the new system.
So far Gunnars hold is the match winner with +56 rating points, Riverside is second with +23 points and Piken the looser of the match with -72pts.

Rating is what you are fighting for! Rating is the thing that remains with your server when the match is over. GH currently fights over expectation, and that’s why you win most.

And this is nice in the new system! It has different challenges for you. It can be either
- Defend your rating by dominating a weaker server (Piken fails to do so currently)
- win through in an even match (Riverside does this vs Piken)
- Resist the domination of a stronger server (GH’s does this well at moment)

In fact you can have every mixture of the above as you have 3 sides in the match.

Roo Stercogburn.9671:

I played on Sunday afternoon and the whole time tactics were a waste of effort. Doesn’t matter if you have 20 people being clever, mobile and inventive when an enemy kitten -squad turns up with 50 everywhere you go. I was going to log on Sunday evening and I just thought to myself, “Why…?” and went off and did something else.

Sorry for letting the side down but when the game provider is blindly determined to turn something into “Not Fun” for a large chunk of their playerbase then they can’t really be surprised that “Not Fun” means “Not Logging On”. See how much income your company makes from that business model over time, chaps.

That match-up really is kittened up. I seriously can not comprehend how anyone can implement a system that opens up chances for a server like Gunnar’s to meet servers like Piken and Riverside. 2 of the bigger organized Piken guild groups will probably already bring more players to a borderland than Gunnar’s can field with all their guilds + lone wolves combined, and that infamous Riverside zombie blob is prolly just gonna waltz through anything they bring by pure numbers only.

Looking at the current scores it seems Gunnar’s is even going up in rating b/c they perform better than the system expects them too, meaning once next reset comes along they should have even better chances of getting into such a matchup again. Doesn’t really make sense, does it?

Dayra.7405:

Rating is what you are fighting for! Rating is the thing that remains with your server when the match is over. GH currently fights over expectation, and that’s why you win most.

Partly playing for fights, partly when possible for the larger strategy. For decent fights they need to be relatively even. Some meta score that means nothing when you log on means nothing after I’ve logged off too if between logging on and logging off its just a case of constantly getting beaten over the head by up to four times the number of players you can field in any one spot.

When I played on Sunday afternoon, we won a few fights but thats no reflection on the matchup system being good. We also had almost no property throughout the borderlands. So, no chance of playing a strategy because everything is retaken almost immediately.

Yeh, I’m definately not understanding the new matchup system or the big brains behind it.

Dayra.7405:

@Roo Stercogburn: Looks like you did not understood the new system.
So far Gunnars hold is the match winner with +56 rating points, Riverside is second with +23 points and Piken the looser of the match with -72pts.

Rating is what you are fighting for! Rating is the thing that remains with your server when the match is over. GH currently fights over expectation, and that’s why you win most.

And this is nice in the new system! It has different challenges for you. It can be either
- Defend your rating by dominating a weaker server (Piken fails to do so currently)
- win through in an even match (Riverside does this vs Piken)
- Resist the domination of a stronger server (GH’s does this well at moment)

In fact you can have every mixture of the above as you have 3 sides in the match.

We play the game for one reason mate and that is fun, not rating points. You may get fun from rating points but most of us don’t give a kitten about anything other than a good even fight. Under old system and with something logical like one up / one down we had balanced matchups. Not this kitten zerg wars and arrowcart fest (plus zoomhacking).

Saying that as a one-off this week has been ok for GH as we’ve won a lot of big fights and taken stuff. However if this was any kind of regular occurrence it would finally be time to move on to another game.

Dodforer.2470:

FA and TC have dropped 19-23 points, while SoS has gone up almost 48, and they’re getting hammered.

SOS is not getting hammered. We are ahead in ppt during Oceanic time. We just don’t have the coverage to push it to NA.

grasshopper.8539:

Us on Ehmry bay feel kind of ripped off. We worked really hard and earn the right to move back up to tier4 this week, then we got a bad roll and were moved BACK to tier5. Now haff of our wvw community is mad and not showing up. So now we are going to lose a lot of the rank we worked so hard to get and SBI is gaining a ton of ranking.
So what’s going to happen next week? We are going to be back in the T5 bracket and SBI is back in T4.

WVW is a competition, you move up the bracket with hard work and commitment. Anet gambling with mach ups is going to take out the competition

Trust me, I don’t think us at AR want to see EBay for a good long time, you’re not “loosing” any rank when matched up with the same two worlds.

Dodforer.2470:

Looking at http://mos.millenium.org/na/ right now, Yaks is ahead by 10-12k, yet we’re losing 3 points in evolution, CD is almost 12K down and they’re UP 60 points in evolution….how the hell are we winning yet still losing, and how is CD losing and yet still gaining so much?

You can also look at this the other way and ask: if CD can stay within 10K points of YB, why is their rating so low? That is the problem with the old system; it would consolidate servers within tiers even if they were no longer a good fit for them.

Dodforer.2470:

While we’re getting some great fights with Kain and CD, I’m concerned that this first iteration of the new system will start to trend in the wrong direction, not bringing servers that are similar into parity, but creating more situations where matchups like FA/TC/SoS and DB/Mag/SI are more frequent and potentially even worse skewed.

The new system will be able to self-correct much better than the old one because the same rules apply each week. If a server drops more rating than it ‘should’, it will likely pick it up again in the following weeks. There will likely be some turmoil in the beginning and further unbalanced matchups simply because of the huge disparity in coverage between the top two tiers and the others but in the end what does it really matter? Without the new system, we (YB) would still be being zerged by Mag during NA prime and zerged by Kain during Oceanic-SEA prime. Instead we get a balanced match where CD seems to be able to check a lot of Kaineng’s SEA strength. Who would have guessed?

I’m waiting to see how everyone feels about this system after they’ve experienced all of the good AND terrible matches this system can produce. As well as when the novelty of fighting someone with a different server name above their head wears off.

Dayra.7405:

This change was urgently needed as the old system was broken
and the new system is one of the best I can imagine.

Agree 100%

The only other way they could improve things is some type of ingame handicap system based on real time population numbers.

No matter what you do Anet, the whiners are going to whine. Ignore them.

Roo Stercogburn.9671:

Interesting that there seems to be some competition for worst WvW design decision

I played on Sunday afternoon and the whole time tactics were a waste of effort. Doesn’t matter if you have 20 people being clever, mobile and inventive when an enemy kitten -squad turns up with 50 everywhere you go. I was going to log on Sunday evening and I just thought to myself, “Why…?” and went off and did something else.

Sorry for letting the side down but when the game provider is blindly determined to turn something into “Not Fun” for a large chunk of their playerbase then they can’t really be surprised that “Not Fun” means “Not Logging On”. See how much income your company makes from that business model over time, chaps.

I’m sure you would be a rich man if you could design a similar game like GW2 that overides human nature to zerg….especially on a Sunday when the casual weekend players log on.

There are simply not enough servers to give multiple balanced matchups. Even the so called “balanced” matchups before this change were anything but balanced. So Anet could have stayed the course and had stale matchups….that many were complaining about…or add some variety, at the expense of possible blowouts. The good news is things change each week with the new format. No longer will you have the same opponents for 10 weeks straight. So even if you face a much stronger opponent one week, you will get different opponents the next.

I chose variety

its epic. t4/t5/t9 score after 2 day http://mos.millenium.org/eu/matchups/map/725

It certainly made things more fun for a chunk of the tiers, but three of us got thrown right into really unbalanced matchups.

Dodforer.2470:

It’s not that it’s the worst idea ever, just parts of it don’t make sense at all.

Looking at http://mos.millenium.org/na/ right now, Yaks is ahead by 10-12k, yet we’re losing 3 points in evolution, CD is almost 12K down and they’re UP 60 points in evolution….how the hell are we winning yet still losing, and how is CD losing and yet still gaining so much?

FA and TC have dropped 19-23 points, while SoS has gone up almost 48, and they’re getting hammered. DB is up almost 30, Mag is down almost 69, and SBI is up almost 47, and again SBI is getting hammered.

[…]

Maybe math has changed in the last 3 decades since I was in school, but the numbers don’t make sense at all. It looks like teams that are getting beaten are actually moving up, teams that are winning are moving down and you’re going to end up with T1 servers fighting T5 servers because they’re being brought into parity range through this system. I’m not saying these servers are bad or other servers are better, sometimes it’s a matter of population and coverage, but if the intent is to make matches like this happen more frequently I don’t see how it will benefit WvW overall.

Your rating doesn’t change based on whether you win or lose, it changes based on whether you beat expectations or not. Based on the difference between your rating and your opponent’s rating, Glicko-2 calculates an ‘E’ value, which is the score you are expected to get against that opponent. Your actual score (designated ‘s’) is compared to that — if s is lower than E you will lose rating points (even if you’re still winning the match), and if s is higher than E you will gain rating points (even if you’re losing the match).

If you want to calculate exactly how many points you need in order to avoid losing rating points, you need to first calculate E. The procedure to do this is described here:
http://www.glicko.net/glicko/glicko2.pdf

The formula to calculate s has been posted by ArenaNet in the past, and it works out to:
s = ( sin((x/(x+y)-0.5)*pi) + 1 ) / 2, where x is your in-game score and y is your opponent’s in-game score.

Setting s = E, and solving for x, yields:

x = y * (0.5 + arcsin(2*E-1)/pi) / (0.5 – arcsin(2*E-1)/pi)

In other words, your score must be [(0.5 + arcsin(2*E-1)/pi) / (0.5 – arcsin(2*E-1)/pi)] times as high as your opponent’s score in order to avoid losing rating points.

You have to do this calculation separately (including the calculation of E) for each of your two opponents.

-ken

Having a wider variety of servers to fight is a good idea, i guess the rng needs a tweak tho!