Guild Wars 2

As a main melee based class (Guardian) I feel bored and helpless in sieges even when I’m repairing or on a siege.

I believe it is now time to add ladders and siege towers not only for a more intense siege experience but also as an added challenge for both attackers and defenders.

This is the way I would see it work.
(adding edits as people comment for more balance and problem solving)

Ladders
– Same price and supply as rams.
– Lower hit points but still enough to allow the climb
– Easier to kill from outside forts rather than from walls
– 1 to 2 people per ladder at a time (to avoid this being the only siege used)
– Can be used against both outter and inner walls
– Main weakness is enemy soldiers
– 1 way movement from ground onto wall only
– Cannot be used against upgraded walls

Siege Towers
– Around or above the price of trebs
– 75ish supply
– Higher hit points making it a real threat
– Movable to a certian degree
-ie have to build within 500 feet
– Allow for 5 people to initially be in the tower when attaches to wall
– then once on wall 3 at a time (again to avoid catering to zerg)
– Easier to kill from outside forts rather than from walls
– Forge version could be steel plated (more hitpoints)
– Can only be built against outter walls (not inner walls)
– Very weak to ballistas and other siege (less so to soldiers)
– Become destroyed when attackers capture (to avoid over crowding)
– 2 way movement from ground onto wall and vice versa
– Can be used against outter upgraded walls (no inner walls at all)

These are two very simple to add siege that I believe many players would like to see implemented into WvW.

The main weakness include and that would have to be adressed would be…
– Attackers simply overwhelming the guild claiming sights instead of clearing the npcs and players all out.
– Mesmer teleport portals from outside the walls to inside the walls would be easier and become more overpowerd.

Some possible fixes could be
Edit: Mesmer portals would not be usable unless a wall or gate is down.
– A gate or wall must be downed before the forts could be captured
– A mesmer’s teleport portal would require a gate or wall down as well (or allow less people to come through the portal
– These siege take up a large amount of maximum siege alloud in an area

Pleae leave comments and or suggestions below as well as whether or not you support this idea and why.

Thank you!

Ladders! Seige towers!! That sounds fun to me. You ought to post this in the “suggestions” thread; I hope a developer gets wind of your idea.

+1 and all that.

I will but I wish to first get a general idea of how everyone feels about this. I personally would really want this to be in game and have thought very long on hard about posting this.

I like both, my only issue being – Would it be like a cast time to climb up the ladders? Because the actual act of climbing the ladder would make for many problems. I can see the siege tower as almost walking up stairs, but with the ladders, one player could in theory “clog-up the ladder” by not moving on it.

Ya I would figure it would be a cast time (until they create an animation for it) I would not want players the ability to move on it (so many issues that would create with griefing haha)

Could work similar to mesmer portal.

I’d rather see the Siege Devourers like you see in some of the other zones. Or something akin to a flameram, but for walls. Maybe a nice charr steam-punk style grinder looking thing, could call it “The Chipper”

And I think in terms of siege we need more anti-infantry options, like a ballista with a skillshot instead of a targetted shot.

I think you have some interesting ideas here Rucifel. I also like that you acknowledge that there could be multiple issues with these ideas, that shows that you have put some decent thought into them. If some resolutions to some of these issues could be discovered, then I think that there is some real potential for siege ladders and towers to be a meaningful addition to WvW.

Another issue that might want to be considered is for these to create an imbalance between attackers and defenders in certain scenarios. Let us say that there are a number of attackers (say a zerg) attacking a well upgraded tower that only can muster a few defenders. Usually, the goal of the defenders would be to attempt to hold the tower until sufficient reinforcements can arrive. However, the use of several ladders and towers would allow the attackers to quickly bypass the upgraded defenses of the keep and overpower the defenders in player combat due to their numbers. This has the potential to make it very hard to ever delay sieges to allow for reinforcements. The defenders would also have little hope of destroying these structures as they would need to attack from outside their walls to more effectively damage them (based on your suggestions in your original post) which would be suicide as they would be jumping into a zerg, effectively causing assured failure anyways.

On the flip side, using ladders and towers against heavily defended positions would not be a wise decision (more so against places like towers, where there is little wall space, allowing for the throng of defenders to easily locate and swarm these siege units). The attackers would be jumping up in small numbers to face immense numbers of defenders, again resulting in assured failure for these brave attackers (not necessarily the whole group, though they would then have dead members on the walls that couldn’t be revived, draining their total attacker pool of troops). In this situation we would likely see attackers stick more to the original siege options in WvW.

Finally, we also have the danger that they would use say a tower to put up 5 mesmers, who all immediately portal jump the attackers onto the wall. Bypassing the upgraded walls entirely (though aoe spams may solve that if the defenders can manage it).

Just some food for thought, thanks for reading.

Don’t care for the ladder. Would make it way too easy. All you’d need is a Mesmer to toss up a ladder and get on top of the wall, then portal everyone in.

Berkut.2837
Yes I agree completely! That is one reason I want many people to comment about this idea in hopes of possibly finding and fixing all bugs before test runs would even begin.

And yes as you stated things such as the mesmer portals would be devastating thus requiring some sort of (if this then that) programing.

In reply to your comments over defenders and attackers I can see where you are coming from and agree.

On the defender side that is why I think a wall or gate must be destroyed before cap.
Also a good fix would be that a heavy wall would require towers instead of ladders (allowing towers to survive sieges for more defenders to get there) and the use of a siege tower would possibly be in the same catagory as a siege golem (would people be willing to spend the money for the siege tower) which unlike the golem could be hit by defenders as it is being built.
Then a keep with a second wall would require a tower if the walls are upgraded (and then the inner upgraded wall would require a tower whihc would not be allowed)

The attackers on the other hand
Yes I agree putting the ladders/ towers in the same location could be devistating but also putting them on opposite sides could allow for more to get upon the wall (or also be devastating as you divide your forces) Many things that commanders and zergs would have to take into account.

and mesmer portals I think would best be served to only be aloud when a wall or gate is down

Thank you for your reply and I hope you get a chance to look this over as they may be possible fixes to the above stated problems.

Perhaps they could add more things to the defenses? Boiling water/etc to counter the use of ladders. I’m not sure what you could do and such but I do like the idea of where people are going with the discussion

Astry.9476

Perhaps they could add more things to the defenses? Boiling water/etc to counter the use of ladders. I’m not sure what you could do and such but I do like the idea of where people are going with the discussion

I know… I really hope that this gets put in.

Thank you all so far for your comments

(again mesmer portal would not be aloud)
hahaha cannot state this enough as it would cause alot of balancing issues

dekyos.1548:

I’d rather see the Siege Devourers like you see in some of the other zones. Or something akin to a flameram, but for walls. Maybe a nice charr steam-punk style grinder looking thing, could call it “The Chipper”

And I think in terms of siege we need more anti-infantry options, like a ballista with a skillshot instead of a targetted shot.

Ya I know… I would personally like to see repeating ballistas put in

There’s been some discussion on this in the beta, and I’ve put some thought into it in the past as well… Siege towers I think could be good, ladders I don’t think could ever be balanced.

If you give them high cost, they aren’t worth it. If you give them low cost…. it’s basically 2 people with a ladder take a tower before anyone even knows its under attack. You would need to have someone watching every single tower just incase one guy and a ladder came by.

Towers I think can work, but would work best if there were larger structures implemented with say taller walls to make them feel more appropriate.

I think you have 2 well thought out ideas for attacking siege, but if you want to also balance it out attack vs defender we need some new siege for defenders to use.

quick ideas since I’m about to leave :P

tower upgrade “Buckets of tar” pour down ladders not only doing large amounts of damage to the siege but lockout out players from using the ladders for a set amount of time.

tower upgrade – “needs a better name” :P but a crows nest with multiple cannons built on it. allowing you to be more offensive while defending.

I want catapults that I can use to fire friendly players hurtling over the precipice when attacking cliffside tower and watch them fall screaming to their deaths.

I mean…fire them into the keep. Yes. Into the keep.

I don’t like the idea of Mesmer portals being unusable unless a wall/gate is down. It’s one of the ways we have of quickly taking a keep back if a mesmer can stay hidden long enough to portal people back in.

Honestly I’m not sure that I like the idea of ladders or towers, seems like they would make defending pretty hard not to mention the possibilities of a few people ninjaing a tower or keep with a ladder. Most places just don’t have the resources for people to be watching every single wall.