Guild Wars 2

These new borderlands are too much pve for the players taste. PvEnvironment We enter WVW for pvp not the environment battle and these maps are well exactly that. You have to fight the map itself the atmosphere the way its designed and then a tough boss at the keep. It seems everyone just avoids it now because why bother going through all that hassle just for some pvp. We would be glad to fight if we could freakin find someone to kill. I think you should hand them over to the pve players and give us the old borderlands back or at least some that aren’t so confusing and the keep bosses shouldn’t be that hard. If a 10 man group can get into a keep they should be able to take it.

You also need to address population imbalance issues definitely in Edge of Mists since its not locked to any particular server. Maybe its time to group servers for WvW or something like that. Other then those things keep up the good work and keep looking at balance issues for spvp if you want it to truly succeed.

I’ve taken firekeep with 3 people and airkeep with 2. I’ve also taken both with groups around 10. The bosses require you to move but they’re not impossible or even overly difficult.

if you can’t even beat an NPC boss with 10 people, what makes you think you can beat enemy players?

The keep champs are no longer complete pushovers like they used to be, which is good. But at the same time they can still be taken down by a duo like the other guy mentioned.

Every single complaint I’ve seen so far about too much PvE and not enough PvP actually boils down to “I can’t ktrain objectives anymore cos it takes too long to break down a wall and too long to kill a boss”. If you actually want enemy players to come and fight you, you need to give them time to notice that you’re there, champ bosses taking longer to kill help that goal.

Its actually easier and faster to take a keep with a small 2-3 man group than it is with 10+ peeps due to scaling. Hell a zerg will be lucky to get the break bar down once. 2 peeps can get it down in seconds. Some bosses has incredibly annoying mechanics on too short cooldowns but tbh… its not really that bad.

Nate.3927:

if you can’t even beat an NPC boss with 10 people, what makes you think you can beat enemy players?

The keep champs are no longer complete pushovers like they used to be, which is good. But at the same time they can still be taken down by a duo like the other guy mentioned.

Every single complaint I’ve seen so far about too much PvE and not enough PvP actually boils down to “I can’t ktrain objectives anymore cos it takes too long to break down a wall and too long to kill a boss”. If you actually want enemy players to come and fight you, you need to give them time to notice that you’re there, champ bosses taking longer to kill help that goal.

Dude I been playing wvw for over 200 hours. And no I haven’t tried to kill the bosses with 2 people but when we show up with 30 and it takes 5 minutes to kill him well I figured there’s no way 10 can do it. So one of my other points is the enemy never makes it to defend because it takes them forever to fight the environment just to arrive at the scene. Its way too much hassle and WVW players don’t want it.

So let me get this straight, your complaining that the terrain in the new borderland maps is too much “PvE” because it’s harder to get around, and to get where you want to go? Also, your other complaint is about a boss, do you mean the LORD? I’m happy they made it harder, now it takes real tactics and knowledge to get around, and do well, unlike before where, it was just one big loop, and made it significantly easier for the ol’ Karma-choo-choo to get around.

Binkydink.2697:

Its way too much hassle and WVW players don’t want it.

- Mike O’Brien disagrees. Now who calls the shots here? Mike does.

ANet 1 – community 0

Odokuro.5049:

So let me get this straight, your complaining that the terrain in the new borderland maps is too much “PvE” because it’s harder to get around, and to get where you want to go? Also, your other complaint is about a boss, do you mean the LORD? I’m happy they made it harder, now it takes real tactics and knowledge to get around, and do well, unlike before where, it was just one big loop, and made it significantly easier for the ol’ Karma-choo-choo to get around.

i think u miss the point. the lord does not need to act like a pve dungeon boss as wvw is a game mode where the players are supposed to defend and not a raid boss that takes long to kill. most of us actually loved the fights in the lordsroom. those fights sometimes went on for hours and u know what that actually needed tactics…running in, timing banners, zergbusting , kiting, rushing, pushing and all that was great fun. killing a lord for 2-5 minutes that hits really hard is getting in the way of lordroom fights as it is all about his skills…
the terrain is a pain as it actually promotes zerging way more than before. also if u die u will not run back. who wants to run for 3 minutes to go back to a fight?
this map destroys zergbusting guilds as yes we do wipe, but with the old simple terrain at least we could run back and face that mapblob and didnt have to run for hours . if u miss the zergtrain u will have to wait or try to catch up which is annoying and always annoyed me about eotm.

op has played 200 hours in wvw and thinks wvw is too much pve. i have played around 3500 hours in wvw and yes its too much pve and the whole gamemode was made way less tactical and completely dumbed down with the hot changes and the new map as much as i tried to like them and wanted to make them work. they dont work at all for me and thats it. im done…other games that are more fun are out there atm. ill check back occasionally to see if something changed but for now im done

Nate.3927:

if you can’t even beat an NPC boss with 10 people, what makes you think you can beat enemy players?

The keep champs are no longer complete pushovers like they used to be, which is good. But at the same time they can still be taken down by a duo like the other guy mentioned.

Every single complaint I’ve seen so far about too much PvE and not enough PvP actually boils down to “I can’t ktrain objectives anymore cos it takes too long to break down a wall and too long to kill a boss”. If you actually want enemy players to come and fight you, you need to give them time to notice that you’re there, champ bosses taking longer to kill help that goal.

Then i guess ill give you one. I shouldnt have to watch for blinking statues while trying to fight on a bridge. I shouldnt have to watch a whole zerg jump to safety by simply jumping off a cliff. Those are the pve things that annoy me. They have nothing to do with ktraining.

selan.8354:

i think u miss the point. the lord does not need to act like a pve dungeon boss as wvw is a game mode where the players are supposed to defend and not a raid boss that takes long to kill. most of us actually loved the fights in the lordsroom. those fights sometimes went on for hours and u know what that actually needed tactics…running in, timing banners, zergbusting , kiting, rushing, pushing and all that was great fun. killing a lord for 2-5 minutes that hits really hard is getting in the way of lordroom fights as it is all about his skills…

I really havent found this to be a problem, quite the opposite. The upscaling of lord hp when facing a 40+ zerg gives a smaller size zerg a fighting chance in the lordroom. When it comes to SM, it definetly can still create hour long fights, except the tactics has changed somewhat – you let a smaller force slowly bring down the lord while the larger fight.

As the above mentioned I find mechanics like gargoyles, blowers, stone spikes, slow thingies and barricades faaaaaaaaaaaaaaar more annoying than keep lords.

It will be interesting to see if the Devs get a clue and make WvW a stand alone option that doesn’t require (or favor) PvE or SPvP, has roaming, small group guild content and large fights over meaningful objectives.. Obviously that’s what the players want.

But the devs have shown and incredible lack of foresight and too much willful blindness up to this point. So I have serious doubts they can get over their egos and admit that they have failed WvW in every way possible. It’s like they all took classes in incompetence and then decided to get doctorates to boot.

I sincerely hope the devs finally have figured it out and the WvW revamp is the RvRvR experience so many of us have been hoping for since… well forever. But the disaster that is HoT tells me that WvW is dead, and it isn’t coming back. Any dev that honestly thought that HoT’s design decisions were positive is in the wrong industry.

Hopefully Camelot Unchained or Crowfall will deliver.

Dawdler.8521:

selan.8354:

i think u miss the point. the lord does not need to act like a pve dungeon boss as wvw is a game mode where the players are supposed to defend and not a raid boss that takes long to kill. most of us actually loved the fights in the lordsroom. those fights sometimes went on for hours and u know what that actually needed tactics…running in, timing banners, zergbusting , kiting, rushing, pushing and all that was great fun. killing a lord for 2-5 minutes that hits really hard is getting in the way of lordroom fights as it is all about his skills…

I really havent found this to be a problem, quite the opposite. The upscaling of lord hp when facing a 40+ zerg gives a smaller size zerg a fighting chance in the lordroom. When it comes to SM, it definetly can still create hour long fights, except the tactics has changed somewhat – you let a smaller force slowly bring down the lord while the larger fight.

As the above mentioned I find mechanics like gargoyles, blowers, stone spikes, slow thingies and barricades faaaaaaaaaaaaaaar more annoying than keep lords.

Well that solution cant work because the boss is scaled to a 40 man group and you try to assign 10 people to kill it while the other 30 deal with pvp. So people who want to do pvp must do pve so they don’t die in pvp. They should be able to ignore the keep lord and fight the bads but they cant ignore him because he’s too strong to ignore.

Binkydink.2697:

Well that solution cant work because the boss is scaled to a 40 man group and you try to assign 10 people to kill it while the other 30 deal with pvp. So people who want to do pvp must do pve so they don’t die in pvp. They should be able to ignore the keep lord and fight the bads but they cant ignore him because he’s too strong to ignore.

What do you mean should? You can ignore the SM lord perfectly fine if you dont want to cap the place. He’s barely any stronger than before – just a ton more hp and a breakbar.

The keep lords on desert border is alot harder to deal with due to mechanics, but people are being kittens when fighting them. Its as if they never played PvE or something. Bay lord for example is the simplest lord ever. Normally everyone rush straight in like the 1111111 zergers they are and get feared into lava and knocked around 360 degrees. If you pull the boss to the left or right side however, you can smack her around like a baby because all her mechanics break – she can only fear you into safety and stairs actually stop the knockback. Plus no gargoyles all around you.

If diferent lord mechanics are too much PvE for you I don’t even know what to say. Because there actually waaay less PvE in the new borderlands than in EBG. I hate the new borderlands for a bunch of reasons. But thinking that it has more PvE content when there’s not isn’t one.

Dawdler.8521:

Binkydink.2697:

Well that solution cant work because the boss is scaled to a 40 man group and you try to assign 10 people to kill it while the other 30 deal with pvp. So people who want to do pvp must do pve so they don’t die in pvp. They should be able to ignore the keep lord and fight the bads but they cant ignore him because he’s too strong to ignore.

What do you mean should? You can ignore the SM lord perfectly fine if you dont want to cap the place. He’s barely any stronger than before – just a ton more hp and a breakbar.

The keep lords on desert border is alot harder to deal with due to mechanics, but people are being kittens when fighting them. Its as if they never played PvE or something. Bay lord for example is the simplest lord ever. Normally everyone rush straight in like the 1111111 zergers they are and get feared into lava and knocked around 360 degrees. If you pull the boss to the left or right side however, you can smack her around like a baby because all her mechanics break – she can only fear you into safety and stairs actually stop the knockback. Plus no gargoyles all around you.

Its not that they never played pve its they don’t want to play pve in the wvw map. The numbers don’t lie look at EB’s population compared to borderlands. Even when your borderlands are under attack no one really goes there to respond.

Dawdler.8521:

Binkydink.2697:

Well that solution cant work because the boss is scaled to a 40 man group and you try to assign 10 people to kill it while the other 30 deal with pvp. So people who want to do pvp must do pve so they don’t die in pvp. They should be able to ignore the keep lord and fight the bads but they cant ignore him because he’s too strong to ignore.

What do you mean should? You can ignore the SM lord perfectly fine if you dont want to cap the place. He’s barely any stronger than before – just a ton more hp and a breakbar.

The keep lords on desert border is alot harder to deal with due to mechanics, but people are being kittens when fighting them. Its as if they never played PvE or something. Bay lord for example is the simplest lord ever. Normally everyone rush straight in like the 1111111 zergers they are and get feared into lava and knocked around 360 degrees. If you pull the boss to the left or right side however, you can smack her around like a baby because all her mechanics break – she can only fear you into safety and stairs actually stop the knockback. Plus no gargoyles all around you.

^ This x100, people need to start to think more and complain less, actually having to press more that 1111111, on your keyboard isn’t the end of the world.

I see some of you are die hard happy about the new changes. Yet somehow I don’t think you run with a guild of any size nor have spent much time in wvw. Last night the queue for EB was like 60 and I visited the borderlands couldn’t find any people or tags so I had to go back to ESO. Because although ESO has a really bad lag problem they do not have any population issues that this game has. I’m kinda stuck because ESO’s lag sometimes makes that game unplayable and the messed up borderlands are making this game sometimes unplayable. So say what you want but facts are facts. The borderlands are empty and EB is full.

Binkydink.2697:

I see some of you are die hard happy about the new changes. Yet somehow I don’t think you run with a guild of any size nor have spent much time in wvw. Last night the queue for EB was like 60 and I visited the borderlands couldn’t find any people or tags so I had to go back to ESO. Because although ESO has a really bad lag problem they do not have any population issues that this game has. I’m kinda stuck because ESO’s lag sometimes makes that game unplayable and the messed up borderlands are making this game sometimes unplayable. So say what you want but facts are facts. The borderlands are empty and EB is full.

I’m from Yaks Bend, it’s true that EBG seems to be more popular, but that’s because people are more likely to be on a BL that they can achieve what they want, and EBG does just that. YBBL/BGBL/JQBL does have people on them, and I usually run with my guild quiet frequently, there’s only a couple things that bother me about the new maps, these things however don’t make me “HATE” it like most others seem to HATE IT ALL, ect. Those things being, getting back to the fight after a wipe or you dying takes longer and the keep lords are far stronger than those in EBG. But again, EBG has been EBG since launch, people are used to it, and like it better, and A LOT of people outright refuse to adapt, or figure out the maps, and just jump on the "New Maps SUCK’ train.

Odokuro.5049:

Binkydink.2697:

I see some of you are die hard happy about the new changes. Yet somehow I don’t think you run with a guild of any size nor have spent much time in wvw. Last night the queue for EB was like 60 and I visited the borderlands couldn’t find any people or tags so I had to go back to ESO. Because although ESO has a really bad lag problem they do not have any population issues that this game has. I’m kinda stuck because ESO’s lag sometimes makes that game unplayable and the messed up borderlands are making this game sometimes unplayable. So say what you want but facts are facts. The borderlands are empty and EB is full.

I’m from Yaks Bend, it’s true that EBG seems to be more popular, but that’s because people are more likely to be on a BL that they can achieve what they want, and EBG does just that. YBBL/BGBL/JQBL does have people on them, and I usually run with my guild quiet frequently, there’s only a couple things that bother me about the new maps, these things however don’t make me “HATE” it like most others seem to HATE IT ALL, ect. Those things being, getting back to the fight after a wipe or you dying takes longer and the keep lords are far stronger than those in EBG. But again, EBG has been EBG since launch, people are used to it, and like it better, and A LOT of people outright refuse to adapt, or figure out the maps, and just jump on the "New Maps SUCK’ train.

Are you some kind of psychopath? First you disagree with me then you agree with me. Get your story straight next time before you start criticizing and tearing down someone’s complaints.

Binkydink.2697:

I see some of you are die hard happy about the new changes. Yet somehow I don’t think you run with a guild of any size nor have spent much time in wvw. Last night the queue for EB was like 60 and I visited the borderlands couldn’t find any people or tags so I had to go back to ESO. Because although ESO has a really bad lag problem they do not have any population issues that this game has. I’m kinda stuck because ESO’s lag sometimes makes that game unplayable and the messed up borderlands are making this game sometimes unplayable. So say what you want but facts are facts. The borderlands are empty and EB is full.

Dunno what tier you’re in but I’m constantly fighting zergs on my BL in prime hours and havoc groups in off hours. I can’t remember the last time it was empty…had to have been weeks ago.

Some people complain, some like them, but in the end they still come.

Sviel.7493:

Binkydink.2697:

I see some of you are die hard happy about the new changes. Yet somehow I don’t think you run with a guild of any size nor have spent much time in wvw. Last night the queue for EB was like 60 and I visited the borderlands couldn’t find any people or tags so I had to go back to ESO. Because although ESO has a really bad lag problem they do not have any population issues that this game has. I’m kinda stuck because ESO’s lag sometimes makes that game unplayable and the messed up borderlands are making this game sometimes unplayable. So say what you want but facts are facts. The borderlands are empty and EB is full.

Dunno what tier you’re in but I’m constantly fighting zergs on my BL in prime hours and havoc groups in off hours. I can’t remember the last time it was empty…had to have been weeks ago.

Some people complain, some like them, but in the end they still come.

I guess I would ask what tier You are on as well. I’m in tier 2 on FA. Let me give you two examples of our prime time adventures in different BLs. One night we spent 2 hours flipping everything in our bl, and about 75% of an enemy bl. You know how many players we saw? Once we saw about 10 show up to do the laser event. So 2 hours one group of 10.

On the second night we flipped around 50 percent of our bl and then in the hopes of drawing people out we map hoped taking the 3 keeps on each of the other BLs, some of them more then once. Since the servers would simply wait for us to leave then cap thier stuff again. In those 2 hours we saw one group of 20ish try to defend fire keep, once. And from time to time we would run to defend our bl keeps hoping for a fight to find 2 people on a gate with a ram. So 2 hours one group in of 20ish.

Right now in my experiences, except for reset night, the BLs are for people who want to karma train. They get a little Zerg together and karma train away. Dodging fights and Killing doors where they can. Which is usually everything, since no one is there.

Wryscher.1432:

Sviel.7493:

Binkydink.2697:

I see some of you are die hard happy about the new changes. Yet somehow I don’t think you run with a guild of any size nor have spent much time in wvw. Last night the queue for EB was like 60 and I visited the borderlands couldn’t find any people or tags so I had to go back to ESO. Because although ESO has a really bad lag problem they do not have any population issues that this game has. I’m kinda stuck because ESO’s lag sometimes makes that game unplayable and the messed up borderlands are making this game sometimes unplayable. So say what you want but facts are facts. The borderlands are empty and EB is full.

Dunno what tier you’re in but I’m constantly fighting zergs on my BL in prime hours and havoc groups in off hours. I can’t remember the last time it was empty…had to have been weeks ago.

Some people complain, some like them, but in the end they still come.

I guess I would ask what tier You are on as well. I’m in tier 2 on FA. Let me give you two examples of our prime time adventures in different BLs. One night we spent 2 hours flipping everything in our bl, and about 75% of an enemy bl. You know how many players we saw? Once we saw about 10 show up to do the laser event. So 2 hours one group of 10.

On the second night we flipped around 50 percent of our bl and then in the hopes of drawing people out we map hoped taking the 3 keeps on each of the other BLs, some of them more then once. Since the servers would simply wait for us to leave then cap thier stuff again. In those 2 hours we saw one group of 20ish try to defend fire keep, once. And from time to time we would run to defend our bl keeps hoping for a fight to find 2 people on a gate with a ram. So 2 hours one group in of 20ish.

Right now in my experiences, except for reset night, the BLs are for people who want to karma train. They get a little Zerg together and karma train away. Dodging fights and Killing doors where they can. Which is usually everything, since no one is there.

exactly what i experienced. its just like eotm karmatrains but a little worse, because the new maps are so complex and with so many gimmicks, an entire zerg can just run past u without u noticing. and of course everyone dodges fights, cause who wants to die and have to run back for like 3 minutes and when finally catching up, if not ganked, misses all the caps or the zerg ports back to spawn or another bl…
with the old maps we could at least run back, even if garri was contested. i really liked the fights as i was running with zergbusting guilds(13-20 people). no waypoints, massive maps, pve gimmicks, too many pve mobs, renders a zergbusting group quiet useless as the mobs will mass rally the enemy and if a few of us die, there is no way they will make it back to us in time to be of any use….
its not about getting used to new things, its just not fun anymore if the whole game mode is dumbed down and noone there to fight, but brainless pve karmatrainees…
unless we get the old maps or something similar back, i think most of us will stick to eb and avoid this disaster of a map!

selan.8354:

its just not fun anymore if the whole game mode is dumbed down and noone there to fight, but brainless pve karmatrainees…

Unfortunetly this perception is a worse fun killer than the desert border itself. Even if you go there looking for a fight, enemies will assume you are karma training and avoid you. And if they avoid you then the enemies must be karma trainers as well, right?

Not to mention peoples need to hug their EB safety blanket force people to try PPT on borders. Early in the week you are hopefull, later… I never really know if I should laugh or cry when seeing chat on EB like “OMG we lost ogres, how could you commander, fail, you should have defended it for the tick!” when we are 100,000 points behind and ticking 100 because no one even try on borders.

What i don’t like about them are the automated turrets and this allmost skyhammer’ish fixation on ai that knocks players into hot stuff or down some cliffs.
Who ever thought that was fun?

My suggestion is turn them over to pve events that would require building siege and the likes. Then simply give us the old BL’s back.

Wryscher.1432:

Dunno what tier you’re in but I’m constantly fighting zergs on my BL in prime hours and havoc groups in off hours. I can’t remember the last time it was empty…had to have been weeks ago.

Some people complain, some like them, but in the end they still come.

I guess I would ask what tier You are on as well. I’m in tier 2 on FA. Let me give you two examples of our prime time adventures in different BLs. One night we spent 2 hours flipping everything in our bl, and about 75% of an enemy bl. You know how many players we saw? Once we saw about 10 show up to do the laser event. So 2 hours one group of 10.

On the second night we flipped around 50 percent of our bl and then in the hopes of drawing people out we map hoped taking the 3 keeps on each of the other BLs, some of them more then once. Since the servers would simply wait for us to leave then cap thier stuff again. In those 2 hours we saw one group of 20ish try to defend fire keep, once. And from time to time we would run to defend our bl keeps hoping for a fight to find 2 people on a gate with a ram. So 2 hours one group in of 20ish.

Right now in my experiences, except for reset night, the BLs are for people who want to karma train. They get a little Zerg together and karma train away. Dodging fights and Killing doors where they can. Which is usually everything, since no one is there.[/quote]

I can’t speak for TC, but on SoS we defend it we have people (or if we don’t). If FA shows up with 30-50 people, though, we can’t always stop them. You may have experienced us delaying captures as long as possible but, in the end, a few defenders can’t hold out forever in most cases. When we backcap, that’s because we can’t fight w/e force(s) are on the map, not because of a love of K-training.

When we do have a comparable force, we fight non-stop. We defended Rampart with ~30 people versus two groups of ~30 from both TC and FA for about 3 hours. After that, the guild that was leading the charge moved to EBG to take over from another guild that called their raid there on account of Rampart being full of holes and becoming increasingly indefensible.

Perhaps, what time zone do you play in? I’m on all over but I know that we don’t have many people in EU or early NA atm. If you roll a zerg onto our BL at that time you’re not going to have much fun.

Wryscher.1432:

Nate.3927:

if you can’t even beat an NPC boss with 10 people, what makes you think you can beat enemy players?

The keep champs are no longer complete pushovers like they used to be, which is good. But at the same time they can still be taken down by a duo like the other guy mentioned.

Every single complaint I’ve seen so far about too much PvE and not enough PvP actually boils down to “I can’t ktrain objectives anymore cos it takes too long to break down a wall and too long to kill a boss”. If you actually want enemy players to come and fight you, you need to give them time to notice that you’re there, champ bosses taking longer to kill help that goal.

Then i guess ill give you one. I shouldnt have to watch for blinking statues while trying to fight on a bridge. I shouldnt have to watch a whole zerg jump to safety by simply jumping off a cliff. Those are the pve things that annoy me. They have nothing to do with ktraining.

Then learn to blob less. Send a couple people to take the shrines. They can be soloed in seconds and turns off those effects.

Fighting on a bridge in air keep with defensive turrets on is no different to fighting on the bridge in hills with a treb constantly knocking you around. It’s a lot easier to send a few people to go cap some shrines than it is to rush a treb on the other end of a very hot chokepoint.

selan.8354:

Odokuro.5049:

So let me get this straight, your complaining that the terrain in the new borderland maps is too much “PvE” because it’s harder to get around, and to get where you want to go? Also, your other complaint is about a boss, do you mean the LORD? I’m happy they made it harder, now it takes real tactics and knowledge to get around, and do well, unlike before where, it was just one big loop, and made it significantly easier for the ol’ Karma-choo-choo to get around.

i think u miss the point. the lord does not need to act like a pve dungeon boss as wvw is a game mode where the players are supposed to defend and not a raid boss that takes long to kill. most of us actually loved the fights in the lordsroom. those fights sometimes went on for hours and u know what that actually needed tactics…running in, timing banners, zergbusting , kiting, rushing, pushing and all that was great fun. killing a lord for 2-5 minutes that hits really hard is getting in the way of lordroom fights as it is all about his skills…
the terrain is a pain as it actually promotes zerging way more than before. also if u die u will not run back. who wants to run for 3 minutes to go back to a fight?
this map destroys zergbusting guilds as yes we do wipe, but with the old simple terrain at least we could run back and face that mapblob and didnt have to run for hours . if u miss the zergtrain u will have to wait or try to catch up which is annoying and always annoyed me about eotm.

op has played 200 hours in wvw and thinks wvw is too much pve. i have played around 3500 hours in wvw and yes its too much pve and the whole gamemode was made way less tactical and completely dumbed down with the hot changes and the new map as much as i tried to like them and wanted to make them work. they dont work at all for me and thats it. im done…other games that are more fun are out there atm. ill check back occasionally to see if something changed but for now im done

If it takes your zerg 30s to burn down the lord when exactly does the defenders get a chance to defend?

if death is more costly than before timewise then people should really be improving their tactics and builds so there’s less yolo rushing everything with superior numbers and more actually fighting smart.

So you’re annoyed that it takes time to catch up to the ktrain zerg in eotm and now you’re annnoyed that it takes time to catch up to the zerg in wvw? So basically you’re annoyed that it takes more effort for you to ktrain? Also it does not take 3 mins to run back, I’ve died and had to run back plenty of times on the new map.

I do not love the new map I’m mostly neutral because other than people making up new excuses for avoiding the bl. It’s pretty much been the same except less ktrainers will follow me when I go to a bl.

Some people just don’t know how to read and comprehend. If you like pve so much why are you fighting to get it controlling pvp? Just get out of our business already.

Nate.3927:

selan.8354:

Odokuro.5049:

So let me get this straight, your complaining that the terrain in the new borderland maps is too much “PvE” because it’s harder to get around, and to get where you want to go? Also, your other complaint is about a boss, do you mean the LORD? I’m happy they made it harder, now it takes real tactics and knowledge to get around, and do well, unlike before where, it was just one big loop, and made it significantly easier for the ol’ Karma-choo-choo to get around.

i think u miss the point. the lord does not need to act like a pve dungeon boss as wvw is a game mode where the players are supposed to defend and not a raid boss that takes long to kill. most of us actually loved the fights in the lordsroom. those fights sometimes went on for hours and u know what that actually needed tactics…running in, timing banners, zergbusting , kiting, rushing, pushing and all that was great fun. killing a lord for 2-5 minutes that hits really hard is getting in the way of lordroom fights as it is all about his skills…
the terrain is a pain as it actually promotes zerging way more than before. also if u die u will not run back. who wants to run for 3 minutes to go back to a fight?
this map destroys zergbusting guilds as yes we do wipe, but with the old simple terrain at least we could run back and face that mapblob and didnt have to run for hours . if u miss the zergtrain u will have to wait or try to catch up which is annoying and always annoyed me about eotm.

op has played 200 hours in wvw and thinks wvw is too much pve. i have played around 3500 hours in wvw and yes its too much pve and the whole gamemode was made way less tactical and completely dumbed down with the hot changes and the new map as much as i tried to like them and wanted to make them work. they dont work at all for me and thats it. im done…other games that are more fun are out there atm. ill check back occasionally to see if something changed but for now im done

If it takes your zerg 30s to burn down the lord when exactly does the defenders get a chance to defend?

I thought that was the whole point of making towers/keeps bigger with more defense? Or was that not enough? Perhaps we should speed up the auto upgrade if people cant defend still. Oh heck lets just start them at T3.

Your question is really, if the lord goes down so fast how do we defend? Oh i dont know maybe scouts and respond before they get to the lord?

Come on now it is all the people who love the new map that tell us how fast and easy it is to get around on once you take the time to learn. I guess They have been lying to us all.

There a lot less pve on the new BL then the old BL with orbs. (pve in the ideal of something that you only need to fight mobs to do something not in the ideal of wall doors and npc “holding” points for ppl so you do not need to have some one siting doing nothing most of the time).
That kind of what wvw or rvr is aimed at with out walls door and npc holding points your planing for doom for a rvr type of game. I mean think about it you have objective comply open to be taken unless you have ppl simply sit on it all day long doing nothing. Is that something you would find fun?

Let look at this from a real practical point of view lets cut all walls doors and npc from any map in wvw. Now you have objective that are comply open where you need ppl to sit effectually afking on a cap point. You need to have to make a player play the roll of an lord who cant leave a keep you need to have players play active scouts of that keep. What your asking for with this point of view is to simply make def even more boring and needed to the point that most ppl who play wvw would NOT def making the game type into all attk and fliping points as fast as you can to out do the ppt of the other team. It would be whom krama trans faster wins the week.

You NEED pve in wvw or rvr to make it work becuse there are rolls that are a MUST to have but no one will ever fill them all the time so you got to have npc wall etc.. fill them.

Dawdler.8521:

Binkydink.2697:

Well that solution cant work because the boss is scaled to a 40 man group and you try to assign 10 people to kill it while the other 30 deal with pvp. So people who want to do pvp must do pve so they don’t die in pvp. They should be able to ignore the keep lord and fight the bads but they cant ignore him because he’s too strong to ignore.

What do you mean should? You can ignore the SM lord perfectly fine if you dont want to cap the place. …

Thanks for the Pro Tip Dawdler. For the past 3 years in WvW I had mistakenly assumed that the correct action after breaking through the castle gates was to kill the lord, get the loot, and capture the place. But if I am not going to capture, why would I spend money on siege to break in? The only way to cap without siege is PvD. But people complain about PvD, it is all so confusing.

Alloy.2839:

Dawdler.8521:

Binkydink.2697:

Well that solution cant work because the boss is scaled to a 40 man group and you try to assign 10 people to kill it while the other 30 deal with pvp. So people who want to do pvp must do pve so they don’t die in pvp. They should be able to ignore the keep lord and fight the bads but they cant ignore him because he’s too strong to ignore.

What do you mean should? You can ignore the SM lord perfectly fine if you dont want to cap the place. …

Thanks for the Pro Tip Dawdler. For the past 3 years in WvW I had mistakenly assumed that the correct action after breaking through the castle gates was to kill the lord, get the loot, and capture the place. But if I am not going to capture, why would I spend money on siege to break in? The only way to cap without siege is PvD. But people complain about PvD, it is all so confusing.

If the population is there and defense shows, many times l have seen SM not capped for 1: Fights, 2: Bags both are fun!!!

Edit: 3 ways were the best of times…

Wryscher.1432:

Nate.3927:

selan.8354:

Odokuro.5049:

So let me get this straight, your complaining that the terrain in the new borderland maps is too much “PvE” because it’s harder to get around, and to get where you want to go? Also, your other complaint is about a boss, do you mean the LORD? I’m happy they made it harder, now it takes real tactics and knowledge to get around, and do well, unlike before where, it was just one big loop, and made it significantly easier for the ol’ Karma-choo-choo to get around.

i think u miss the point. the lord does not need to act like a pve dungeon boss as wvw is a game mode where the players are supposed to defend and not a raid boss that takes long to kill. most of us actually loved the fights in the lordsroom. those fights sometimes went on for hours and u know what that actually needed tactics…running in, timing banners, zergbusting , kiting, rushing, pushing and all that was great fun. killing a lord for 2-5 minutes that hits really hard is getting in the way of lordroom fights as it is all about his skills…
the terrain is a pain as it actually promotes zerging way more than before. also if u die u will not run back. who wants to run for 3 minutes to go back to a fight?
this map destroys zergbusting guilds as yes we do wipe, but with the old simple terrain at least we could run back and face that mapblob and didnt have to run for hours . if u miss the zergtrain u will have to wait or try to catch up which is annoying and always annoyed me about eotm.

op has played 200 hours in wvw and thinks wvw is too much pve. i have played around 3500 hours in wvw and yes its too much pve and the whole gamemode was made way less tactical and completely dumbed down with the hot changes and the new map as much as i tried to like them and wanted to make them work. they dont work at all for me and thats it. im done…other games that are more fun are out there atm. ill check back occasionally to see if something changed but for now im done

If it takes your zerg 30s to burn down the lord when exactly does the defenders get a chance to defend?

I thought that was the whole point of making towers/keeps bigger with more defense? Or was that not enough? Perhaps we should speed up the auto upgrade if people cant defend still. Oh heck lets just start them at T3.

Your question is really, if the lord goes down so fast how do we defend? Oh i dont know maybe scouts and respond before they get to the lord?

Come on now it is all the people who love the new map that tell us how fast and easy it is to get around on once you take the time to learn. I guess They have been lying to us all.

exactly. instead of karmatraining, people used to respond to scouts. my guild(s) used to be called over ts nonstop to go and help out at garrison or bay. and how people defend when lord is down?…..

18 vs 2 servers at bay with 6 walls and every single gate down…

or
15 defending home bl

that used to be fun.

automated turrets, upgrades, wp changes, pve laser event, all the messages of who capped what that so people dont even need to double check the map anymore, are not fun at all!!