Guild Wars 2

I understand that the Arenanet Developers probably put a lot of work into creating the WvW maps that we have today, for their size, they have a surprising amount of complexity, and there are still some times when I find a little quirk that i can make us of from a tactical standpoint, or to help escape the enemy when scouting.

That said, the current maps are certainly getting very stale to me, and unfortunatey, despite their complexity, the maps are simply too small and cramped to do justice to the game type they were made for.

are new maps a possibility? do you guys think that Anet will ever get around to making new maps? Is it necessary for them to make new maps?

I would love some new borderlands maps. The current maps I like but the fact that there are only 2 different maps (1 being used 3 times) seems really dull and it would be very nice to have some variety.

Ahhh I would love to see some maps like Kaanai Canyon, Etnaran Keys, Saltspray Beach, Grenz, and Ancestral Lands!

+10000 for everyone who recognizes these

I thought I saw someone post a link of a dev discussing the possibility of a map connecting the borderlands.

Add “Urban Warfare” map – with 3 side fighting inside huge City.

And still waiting for underwater sieges and fortresses.

Drigan.7382:

Ahhh I would love to see some maps like Kaanai Canyon, Etnaran Keys, Saltspray Beach, Grenz, and Ancestral Lands!

But pleeease don’t make us stuck in Ancestral

idk , it would real awesome to start something like the siege razer but 20+ on it and sea/island fights , and siegerazer makes us hop on the ship and we just sail to the island

IMO, urban warfare would be da bomb, plus, with a lot of complex terrain, choke points, and elevated areas, small groups could be a lot more effective against zergs, and scouting would be essential. Imagine actually being able to effectively ambush a zerg and trap them before they could get away.

the possibilities for new types of gameplay within the existing structure of WvW are mind boggling, the game mode has a lot of potential that isn’t being capitalized on, and I think that new maps would really help achieve this.

Indoor map with mazes

I didn’t do any pvp in the game until about 3 or 4 months after release. I was enjoying the leveling process of my character and didn’t want to get side tracked. I had this vision of the WvW maps being more detailed and tactical based on the terrain than what they are.

I know that latency would be a big issue with having super detailed maps but I did expect to see more than just basic tundra, forest, water, snow, and the minor variations we currently have.

I look at a map like Caledon Forest as an example and wish we had open world pvp instead of WvW. Pvp in places like that would be an adventure and every battle would be vastly different due to the terrain alone.

You can get up into tree and root systems, you have high hills and low lands and plenty of places to choke large groups effectively and areas of potential open combat. There are some very interesting maps in the open world that would add to the adventure rather than take from it.

There are some areas in our current WvW maps that offer a glimpse of this, mostly in the BL map corners, but fights are rare in these places unless a spawn is nearby an invading group trying to breakout.

I would gladly deal with fewer numbers allowed in a map if some really interesting maps were created to make this happen.

As an example, the ruins outside the blue keep in EB is one of the best overall areas for fighting in WvW as far as design and complexity goes for tactics. The obvious downside is that it is right at the foot of a keep and the fights here are usually quick as the blue keep defenders disappear into their fortress to man siege rather than bounce around those walls and paths.

Just my thoughts. Expand, add, flame away if you must. : )

Preacher.9018:

Add “Urban Warfare” map – with 3 side fighting inside huge City.

Yes yes and yes

This stupid forum logged me out while posting and ate my post.

1. Each server gets their own borderland that reflects that server’s name. Dragonbrand actually is in the Dragonbrand, Maguuma actually is in the Maguuma jungle. These are released over a period of eight months to cover the eight tiers.

2. Three new “neutral” borderlands are added (for a total of four) in the same time-frame. These maps are different from other maps in that they clearly favour the owners.

4. A new EB is added every four months and changes weekly.

5. Once 2/3 of the new maps are in place, map rotation begins with the team that comes in third each week being placed one of the four “neutral” maps. In this way, even if the same three servers are fighting each other week after week there is still variety.

Yes, I am well aware of the massive amount of work involved, but this game is meant to last for years, is it not? People are already bored of the borderlands. We need variety and the more variety the better.

Sokar Rostau.7316:

This stupid forum logged me out while posting and ate my post.

1. Each server gets their own borderland that reflects that server’s name. Dragonbrand actually is in the Dragonbrand, Maguuma actually is in the Maguuma jungle. These are released over a period of eight months to cover the eight tiers.

2. Three new “neutral” borderlands are added (for a total of four) in the same time-frame. These maps are different from other maps in that they clearly favour the owners.

4. A new EB is added every four months and changes weekly.

5. Once 2/3 of the new maps are in place, map rotation begins with the team that comes in third each week being placed one of the four “neutral” maps. In this way, even if the same three servers are fighting each other week after week there is still variety.

Yes, I am well aware of the massive amount of work involved, but this game is meant to last for years, is it not? People are already bored of the borderlands. We need variety and the more variety the better.

I love option #1 the most. It would definitely give players a reason to stay loyal to certain servers as they could really learn the ins-and-outs of their home borderlands.

+1 EB rotation – seems like it would be easiest to balance

+1 – urban/guerrilla fighting maps, not sure how this could be done, but it’d definitely be neat!

Preacher.9018:

Add “Urban Warfare” map – with 3 side fighting inside huge City.

Guild of Duty: Tyrian Warfare

Go back to CoD if you want urban, please. That would be an awful idea.

Sokar Rostau.7316:

This stupid forum logged me out while posting and ate my post.

1. Each server gets their own borderland that reflects that server’s name. Dragonbrand actually is in the Dragonbrand, Maguuma actually is in the Maguuma jungle. These are released over a period of eight months to cover the eight tiers.

Very very good idea. I would love if this were implemented. Would make defending your BL much more rewarding and personal.

Munkee.3542:

Preacher.9018:

Add “Urban Warfare” map – with 3 side fighting inside huge City.

Guild of Duty: Tyrian Warfare

Go back to CoD if you want urban, please. That would be an awful idea.

Right, because fantasy never takes place indoors or in cities. Have you never done fractals?

Urban warfare would be totally sick

And so would island warfare

……just pleeeeeeease don’t go sticking karka NPCs on the islands!!!!

stinkypants.8419:

+1 – urban/guerrilla fighting maps, not sure how this could be done, but it’d definitely be neat!

Just imagine being in the narrow, winding parts of divinity’s reach or lion’s arch, then imagine zergs running through those streets and allies with ACs on the rooftops and all those potential choke points and hiding places for surprise attacks.

This could possibly be the best thing ever

As would this

Sokar Rostau.7316:

1. Each server gets their own borderland that reflects that server’s name. Dragonbrand actually is in the Dragonbrand, Maguuma actually is in the Maguuma jungle. These are released over a period of eight months to cover the eight tiers.

MrChandMan.8253:

stinkypants.8419:

+1 – urban/guerrilla fighting maps, not sure how this could be done, but it’d definitely be neat!

Just imagine being in the narrow, winding parts of divinity’s reach or lion’s arch, then imagine zergs running through those streets and allies with ACs on the rooftops and all those potential choke points and hiding places for surprise attacks.

This could possibly be the best thing ever

As would this

Sokar Rostau.7316:

1. Each server gets their own borderland that reflects that server’s name. Dragonbrand actually is in the Dragonbrand, Maguuma actually is in the Maguuma jungle. These are released over a period of eight months to cover the eight tiers.

+1 billion to that

also @ the guy who made the CoD comment, are cities only used in call of duty, is that really the only game you play that has cities in it? That’s a bit pathetic…

Think about all of the awesome gameplay that an urban map could provide in a game like this. Right now, we have very open maps, and really only 1 or 2 ways to get from point A to point B, this not only heavily favors zergs, who can easily find, and run down smaller groups, but it makes gameplay rather stale most of the time. In an urban environment, an experienced team could move pretty much entirely unseen, and set up ambushes and traps for zergs to fall in to. Scouting on the flanks of the group would be of paramount importance, and the game would be dominated by small, organized groups. Even zerg battles could be far more interesting, with small flanking maneuvers making all the difference. Just like in a real battle, when taking a specific strategic location (maybe a hilltop or a crucial supply route) could make or break a battle.

There’s honestly a lot more I could say about how fun it is, but to say that adding urban combat makes this game Call of Duty is just… wow…

I don’t understand why they don’t simply replace two of the three borderlands with altered PvE maps. All they need to do is put a balanced number of holdings for each side on the map and change some parts of the terrain where needed. You don’t need mirrored maps to have fun maps.

They could do plenty of maps like this in addition as well, perhaps one for each world area: Ascalon, Orr, Maguuma, Shiverpeaks. We already have Kryta maps, both the current borderlands and EB can be considered of that theme.

They could even take Divinity’s Reach and turn it into a WvW map (you can probably call it Divinity’s Breach for obvious reasons!), and replace the 6 god shrines with Tower/Keep locations, and camps in between, perhaps a Stonemist style holding in the center. With all those small streets, think of all the tactical possibilities, it could even break the zerg metagame up at least on such a map. Hows that for urban warfare? It would probably work perfectly as well since that city’s design is balanced right away.

Sokar Rostau.7316:

This stupid forum logged me out while posting and ate my post.

1. Each server gets their own borderland that reflects that server’s name. Dragonbrand actually is in the Dragonbrand, Maguuma actually is in the Maguuma jungle. These are released over a period of eight months to cover the eight tiers.

This would be amazing but let’s face reality, it will never, ever, happen. It would be too much work and ArenaNet has shown to not really put much effort into WvW content in the past 7-8 months. Too much work in logistics as well, take for example my server, Desolation. They would have to create all-new art assets to re-create this location in GW2 (that said, it can’t be too hard, since that place was mostly, well, desolated).

How would something like this work?

(The spawn points would probably have to be build into the walls near those keeps, or underground... Sewers! With multiple exits. The game hinted at their existence often enough anyway.)

An “urban” map based on one of the PvE cities would be amusing. On one hand, you’d never see the zerg coming. On the other hand, ducking around a corner would be pretty easy to do with so many corners.

New WvW map to coincide with ESO release – Colin

chefdiablo.6791:

I look at a map like Caledon Forest as an example and wish we had open world pvp instead of WvW. Pvp in places like that would be an adventure and every battle would be vastly different due to the terrain alone.

I have to agree and one of the biggest heartaches for me is that this game has no true open world PvP. WvW doesn’t even come close really.

The fact is – they can turn any map to PvP map: they did multiple times in events, where players were able to fight each other on PVE maps.

Integrating those maps to WvW system is another question though… But yeah. People are length tired of existing maps after fighting on them for months.

I would love a 5th map but would like it even more if they relocated all JP’s, vendors and anything else you can do besides fight the war there too…

So the current 4 maps are entirely dedicated to the war/fighting…

Do try to keep up with the rumor mill :P

An urban map would pull the heavy zerg v zerg players off the other maps and they could fight eaxh other while the people that like to play pvd and roaming would b more free to do so. It’s a win win

Sokar Rostau.7316:

1. Each server gets their own borderland that reflects that server’s name. Dragonbrand actually is in the Dragonbrand, Maguuma actually is in the Maguuma jungle. These are released over a period of eight months to cover the eight tiers.

+10 Kudo points to you, great idea

Raap.9065:

How would something like this work?

(The spawn points would probably have to be build into the walls near those keeps, or underground… Sewers! With multiple exits. The game hinted at their existence often enough anyway.)

They need to make this happen!

They don’t need [MAPS], they need a single, very large map. Take a look at the Elder Scrolls Online concept of PvP, and how everyone will be fighting on the same map.

http://elderscrollsonline.com/en/media/videos/411

jkctmc.8754:

They don’t need [MAPS], they need a single, very large map. Take a look at the Elder Scrolls Online concept of PvP, and how everyone will be fighting on the same map.

http://elderscrollsonline.com/en/media/videos/411

that in the end will turn out even smaller than what we have here..

The only good example would be Darkfall, where you need hour to cross the continent to get to place of battle – but it does not fit GW2 WvW concept, which is basically a big continuous minigame for score.

Preacher.9018:

jkctmc.8754:

They don’t need [MAPS], they need a single, very large map. Take a look at the Elder Scrolls Online concept of PvP, and how everyone will be fighting on the same map.

http://elderscrollsonline.com/en/media/videos/411

that in the end will turn out even smaller than what we have here..

The only good example would be Darkfall, where you need hour to cross the continent to get to place of battle – but it does not fit GW2 WvW concept, which is basically a big continuous minigame for score.

I applaud your loyalty to GW2, but I’ve been gaming since 1995, and my flavor of a game is PvP only. Quite frankly GW2 has been the worst PvP experience I’ve had with any game I’ve played (keep in mind I never played WoW). They would have to do a complete overhaul of this game to keep a majority of their playerbase. Two PvP oriented guilds that came to GW2 with me, with over 300 players each, have quit. Out of those players 20 of them are in ESO Beta, and they’ve all said; “this game might have just got the current weather of PvP right”.

Give me the names of all of your friends so I can report them for NDA violations!

Oozo.7856:

Give me the names of all of your friends so I can report them for NDA violations!

lol…. NO.

Well… Maybe you and I can get into beta then? Hmm……. <evil grin>

jkctmc.8754:

Preacher.9018:

jkctmc.8754:

They don’t need [MAPS], they need a single, very large map. Take a look at the Elder Scrolls Online concept of PvP, and how everyone will be fighting on the same map.

http://elderscrollsonline.com/en/media/videos/411

that in the end will turn out even smaller than what we have here..

The only good example would be Darkfall, where you need hour to cross the continent to get to place of battle – but it does not fit GW2 WvW concept, which is basically a big continuous minigame for score.

I applaud your loyalty to GW2, but I’ve been gaming since 1995, and my flavor of a game is PvP only. Quite frankly GW2 has been the worst PvP experience I’ve had with any game I’ve played (keep in mind I never played WoW). They would have to do a complete overhaul of this game to keep a majority of their playerbase. Two PvP oriented guilds that came to GW2 with me, with over 300 players each, have quit. Out of those players 20 of them are in ESO Beta, and they’ve all said; “this game might have just got the current weather of PvP right”.

Mind you i am playing pvp MMOs since Ultima Online/Meridian 59 too, and formed and organized a wvw alliance in EU on Seafarers Rest that lead the server from 8th tier to 1st place (though my guild already quit and is playing Darkfall and i am just checking GW2 back as well).

GW2 WvW is just fine. Its not open world pvp, its not proper warfare and sandbox like say Darkfall, but its enjoyable, involves a lot of strategy and organization and it does what most MMOs fail even if they try – provide truly massive battles of hundreds players. As someone who fought mass warfare in Anarchy Online, Age of Conan, Neocron etc. – it is truly an achievement to have a game that does not start to impossibly lag/crash when hundred players fight, and have action dynamic combat as a bonus – Lineage might have similar scale combat, but the actual combat is kitten.

I`d say my favorite PvP games are Ultima Online, Neocron 2 and Age of Conan, with Darkfall having special place, and my tastes gravitating more to PKing and open world combat and guild warfare – but i neverless enjoy GW2 WvW and its one of the best pvp experiences we had with out guild – that went through many pvp games.

So as far actual combat, warfare, fun goes – GW2 WvW is fine. The reason most people i know quit is simple: they were tired of doing same thing for many months, and there were no substantial updates, and it being basically a big minigame and not sanbox – fighting for score got old. Still i enjoy it in current state, and the only thing i really`d like to see is content updates – new maps, new siege weapons, new mechanics. Until someone makes a perfect sandbox pvp MMO with huge maps, and massive scale unlaggy battles and nice combat mechanics – GW2 is easily the best there. Darkfall, with all its nice things – still turns into mess when lot of players get involved. Archeage have terrible combat system. ESO is basically trying to recreate GW2 WvW/AoC sieges with some warhammer flover – nothing new whatsoever. Until i see their siege warfare and maps and combat system being fun and it actually working and hundreds players being able to fight – its all promises.

The best thing about GW2 WvW – is that they delivered exactly what they promised, and it works. Something AoC for example, could not do until the very end and Warhammer failed to make work longterm

^^ I’ve never lagged in any game, even Aions massive battles. Lag is as much your fault, as it is the games fault.

And on the first page of the WvW forums, people are complaining about WvW skill lag.

Funny that. Again, I applaud your loyalty, but I just feel it is misplaced.

jkctmc.8754:

^^ I’ve never lagged in any game, even Aions massive battles. Lag is as much your fault, as it is the games fault.

And on the first page of the WvW forums, people are complaining about WvW skill lag.

Funny that. Again, I applaud your loyalty, but I just feel it is misplaced.

I hate to be “that guy”, but why are you hanging around GUILD WARS 2 FORUMS when you clearly dislike GW2. You are generally being a lot more calm about it than most trolls, but do you really have nothing better to do in your day than come back and try and convince people on GW2 forums not to play GW2?

If you feel like some type of missionary, trying to educate the ignorant masses and get them to turn away from their evil GW2-playing ways, please just stop. Go back to playing whatever game you are enjoying right now, it’s not that complicated, if you don’t like a game, don’t play it.

Sokar Rostau.7316:

1. Each server gets their own borderland that reflects that server’s name. Dragonbrand actually is in the Dragonbrand, Maguuma actually is in the Maguuma jungle. These are released over a period of eight months to cover the eight tiers.

While themes would be nice, the BLs need to remain identical in form because that is the only way to guarantee balance between them and for all sides on the home-field. If you were to just put an overlay on the map, a skin of sorts, then sure, but I wouldn’t open the can of worms of different maps; no one wants to be on the server with the most disadvantageous map and everyone will want to be on the servers with the most advantageous maps.

jkctmc.8754:

They don’t need [MAPS], they need a single, very large map. Take a look at the Elder Scrolls Online concept of PvP, and how everyone will be fighting on the same map.

http://elderscrollsonline.com/en/media/videos/411

I don’t see why anyone cares about a game that’s stuck in 2005 with nothing but bullet points to its points. And, no, everyone will not be fighting on the same map. Its still broken up into zones: alliance home zone and central city, or, if you prefer, borderlands and an eternal battleground.

It’s one thing to be unhappy with the development of something, and another thing to hate something. I’d be far more forgiving if they hadn’t already had another MMO title under their name. At this point in time I will not forgive companies for turning out a buggy game, when they should have already learned from their prior experiences. You can be apologetic all you want for Anet, but fact of the matter is they did not turn out the game they promised. It’s about time development teams deliver what they promise.

The four maps were a bad idea because only two, possibly three tiers can field people on all four maps, while the rest are lucky to fill up one map most of the time, therefore creating a population balance you’d expect having three servers against each other, would have fixed an age old problem.

This is why one very large map would have worked out much, much better, than having four seperate maps, where the most common form of play becomes PvDoor, rather than World vs World Player vs Player combat. This is a lesson learned greatly by Warhammer, when they had too many area/maps for people to fight in.

I hang around after leveling 6 toons to 80, and fully gearing them out in Exotics hoping things change, and they speed up the process to fix things. But my hope is diminishing.

Sokar Rostau.7316:

This stupid forum logged me out while posting and ate my post.

1. Each server gets their own borderland that reflects that server’s name. Dragonbrand actually is in the Dragonbrand, Maguuma actually is in the Maguuma jungle. These are released over a period of eight months to cover the eight tiers.

2. Three new “neutral” borderlands are added (for a total of four) in the same time-frame. These maps are different from other maps in that they clearly favour the owners.

4. A new EB is added every four months and changes weekly.

5. Once 2/3 of the new maps are in place, map rotation begins with the team that comes in third each week being placed one of the four “neutral” maps. In this way, even if the same three servers are fighting each other week after week there is still variety.

Yes, I am well aware of the massive amount of work involved, but this game is meant to last for years, is it not? People are already bored of the borderlands. We need variety and the more variety the better.

+1 Would love to see this.

At minimum I would like to see better use of the space in the existing BL maps. The skill point areas are a total waste. Put more camps/towers there instead. And more choke points would be great. Something to defend. Maybe just another gate, that can slow down a zerg a bit more before they get to the northern camps.

jkctmc.8754:

It’s one thing to be unhappy with the development of something, and another thing to hate something. I’d be far more forgiving if they hadn’t already had another MMO title under their name. At this point in time I will not forgive companies for turning out a buggy game, when they should have already learned from their prior experiences. You can be apologetic all you want for Anet, but fact of the matter is they did not turn out the game they promised. It’s about time development teams deliver what they promise.

The four maps were a bad idea because only two, possibly three tiers can field people on all four maps, while the rest are lucky to fill up one map most of the time, therefore creating a population balance you’d expect having three servers against each other, would have fixed an age old problem.

This is why one very large map would have worked out much, much better, than having four seperate maps, where the most common form of play becomes PvDoor, rather than World vs World Player vs Player combat. This is a lesson learned greatly by Warhammer, when they had too many area/maps for people to fight in.

I hang around after leveling 6 toons to 80, and fully gearing them out in Exotics hoping things change, and they speed up the process to fix things. But my hope is diminishing.

I fully agree with all of that, but remember that ANet’s outdated game engine is simply incapable of handling a map any larger than the ones we currently have. They have openly stated that several times.

Cactus.2710:

I fully agree with all of that, but remember that ANet’s outdated game engine is simply incapable of handling a map any larger than the ones we currently have. They have openly stated that several times.

Not disagreeing with you, but do you have a source that you could post?

I’d just like to not get my hopes up

Still, there are a lot of things that they could do with WvW maps of the same size, but greater complexity. In general, I’d be okay with them not making the maps that much bigger, as long as we get something NEW, because these current maps are, as I said in the OP, getting rather stale.

In counterstrike, I’ve seen a lot of custom maps made by players. What if Anet allows the players to submit maps to wvw team for review, and if the map looks good, it is added to the map rotation. Imagine a new borderland map every week…

Preacher.9018:

jkctmc.8754:

They don’t need [MAPS], they need a single, very large map. Take a look at the Elder Scrolls Online concept of PvP, and how everyone will be fighting on the same map.

http://elderscrollsonline.com/en/media/videos/411

that in the end will turn out even smaller than what we have here..

Based on what?

morrolan.9608:

Preacher.9018:

jkctmc.8754:

They don’t need [MAPS], they need a single, very large map. Take a look at the Elder Scrolls Online concept of PvP, and how everyone will be fighting on the same map.

http://elderscrollsonline.com/en/media/videos/411

that in the end will turn out even smaller than what we have here..

Based on what?

Galactic wisdom.

Polismassa.6740:

Cactus.2710:

I fully agree with all of that, but remember that ANet’s outdated game engine is simply incapable of handling a map any larger than the ones we currently have. They have openly stated that several times.

Not disagreeing with you, but do you have a source that you could post?

I’d just like to not get my hopes up

Still, there are a lot of things that they could do with WvW maps of the same size, but greater complexity. In general, I’d be okay with them not making the maps that much bigger, as long as we get something NEW, because these current maps are, as I said in the OP, getting rather stale.

If I remember correctly, most of those quotes were done in 3rd party interviews. I archive some of those but not all. Here’s one from an interview with Mike Ferguson:

http://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/196tgh/jeuxonlineinfo_made_an_interview_with_mike/

In that one he merely said that there were severe technical limitations to making WvW maps any larger, but in other comments I’ve seen (more than one of them … I just can’t find them) he flat out states that the game engine cannot handle any map larger than the ones we already have. Maybe somebody else here can post one of those if you still don’t believe me.

Even if they simply made the current ones more interesting I’d be happy. Maybe balance changes based on terrain. Like make adjustments so bay isn’t such a weak keep. Bring in other interesting aspects like the old orb, and maybe other various things. Give JP it’s own instance.

There’s so much they could do, but in all honesty, they really need to focus on a solution for ability lag and this would easily be the best current game for large scale PvP.