Guild Wars 2

Another nerf to thiefs?

There has been few places where it has been possible to use infiltrators arrow to get to roofs.

For example vale camp entry point. On the left side (looking from outside of the camp) its been possible to get up on the roof with infiltrators arrow (thief shortbow skill nr. 5)

Now it just says no valid path..

So imagine fight when there is 20 man group keeping choke down on the camp side because they have sieged up the wall to attack bay. All of their ranged classes are up on the roof protected by 20 man melee train.

we have equal numbers but we cant push that since we cant get to their periphery

in the old times i would have stealthed our counter periphery team went up on the roof and bomb their periphery so our melee can push to the choke.

Now i get NO VALID PATH makes me wanna change class already..

Even portal bomb there is impossible now since mesmer has to go all the way around and there is no enough stealth for that.

And thats not the only place where!

Second thing is when you get jumped.
In the old times i would have used a shortcut to get away.
not anymore..

Almost every other class has real things to get away from enemy spikes.
We have had these shortcuts to shadowstep to when you get spiked.

Elementalists have Lightning Flash, mist form, armor of earth
Necros have 40-50k health almost full BERSERKER if they are properly traited
Rangers got signet of stone making them ilvunerable, you know this stuff!
Warriors got endure pain (usually if they go zerker)
Guardians shelter and renewed focus
Engi also gets massive heals and ilvunerability
Mesmers can reset any fight if they know how to use portal, this class also has great amount of ilvunerability

Even downed state is so buffed that you cant kill an elementalist on a mile radius of their tower.

Ranger downed state? even full berserker thief cant do enough dps to kill ranger if they get to the point where pet starts to revive him.

What do we have? for condi removal we got shadowstep that you have to use fully to cure conditions so it means stepping back to enemy spike if you want to cure conditions..
And thats only properly working stun breaker aswell

Stealth is counted for our survival?
Not really, ranger rapid fire hits even if ur been in stealth for 10 minutes
so does necros chostly claws both doing over 10k damage.

I mean we only get nerfd in every singe patch all the time and its not so fun to play thief anymore tbh..

These shortcuts have been a lifeline to thiefs

Downed state on thief? Well we all know its a joke.

Best Regards
Teemus

Yea Teemus i know how you feel the teleport for thiefs is indeed their life line for an escape or for a counter attack. When a zerg pushes you in WvW almost your only way out is to shadow step this invalid place to target made it really idiotic for thiefs i even encountert the invalid place to target in open field.

Another thing is that there where awsome fights sometimes in vale camp in WvW because of portal bombs on the roof or a counter periphery party going ontop of the roof and taking down the enemy periphery. Because of this invalid place to target thing you won’t waste skills but it made the game fights really kitten.

In my opinion short cuts have been cut of and i think then they should return it to the old state where you can use the skill and get the recharge and not get ontop of it then not using the skill and beïng kittened over by a enemy zerg.

Why don’t you use stealth like all other thiefs?

Well i see u didnt read the post

Meh. It’s a bug fix. The fix is very late, but so is the one for falling damage from walking down a hill. It’s not like we can’t teleport, just not to a place that we can’t run straight over to.

Well i don’t know if you know the Hills short cut in WvW at the cliff but you can run straight to it the shortut up works but the short cut down doesn’t. It shouldn’t have ben fixed we had a system for it it was called you wasted your skills if you can’t walk straight to it you can’t get ontop of it with your tp.

I see you didnt read properly aswell..
El grazy charr there told us that hes been getting that on open field also.

And you missed the point.

This has been only real getaway for thiefs in wvw. dont u see how buffed other classes are.

how about you trait for trickery and focus on the 3rd thing thiefs are good in after stealth and teleports:
evades.

shortcuts were a bug to begin with, and given the options this class still has (except heavy bug-using), there is nothing to complain about for you.
Portal bombs are still a thing, they are just harder to pull off now.
Teleports still work like intended (keep in mind that “open field” does not include paths with a high elevation difference).
Thief/mesmer still have all their defensive options, just the exploiting part of their movement got fixed.

TeemuS.7934:

Another nerf to thiefs?

There has been few places where it has been possible to use infiltrators arrow to get to roofs.

For example vale camp entry point. On the left side (looking from outside of the camp) its been possible to get up on the roof with infiltrators arrow (thief shortbow skill nr. 5)

Now it just says no valid path..

So imagine fight when there is 20 man group keeping choke down on the camp side because they have sieged up the wall to attack bay. All of their ranged classes are up on the roof protected by 20 man melee train.

we have equal numbers but we cant push that since we cant get to their periphery

in the old times i would have stealthed our counter periphery team went up on the roof and bomb their periphery so our melee can push to the choke.

Now i get NO VALID PATH makes me wanna change class already..

Even portal bomb there is impossible now since mesmer has to go all the way around and there is no enough stealth for that.

And thats not the only place where!

Second thing is when you get jumped.
In the old times i would have used a shortcut to get away.
not anymore..

Almost every other class has real things to get away from enemy spikes.
We have had these shortcuts to shadowstep to when you get spiked.

Elementalists have Lightning Flash, mist form, armor of earth
Necros have 40-50k health almost full BERSERKER if they are properly traited
Rangers got signet of stone making them ilvunerable, you know this stuff!
Warriors got endure pain (usually if they go zerker)
Guardians shelter and renewed focus
Engi also gets massive heals and ilvunerability
Mesmers can reset any fight if they know how to use portal, this class also has great amount of ilvunerability

Even downed state is so buffed that you cant kill an elementalist on a mile radius of their tower.

Ranger downed state? even full berserker thief cant do enough dps to kill ranger if they get to the point where pet starts to revive him.

What do we have? for condi removal we got shadowstep that you have to use fully to cure conditions so it means stepping back to enemy spike if you want to cure conditions..
And thats only properly working stun breaker aswell

Stealth is counted for our survival?
Not really, ranger rapid fire hits even if ur been in stealth for 10 minutes
so does necros chostly claws both doing over 10k damage.

I mean we only get nerfd in every singe patch all the time and its not so fun to play thief anymore tbh..

These shortcuts have been a lifeline to thiefs

Downed state on thief? Well we all know its a joke.

Best Regards
Teemus

Oh, cry me a river. Your “nerf” is to have exactly the same skill as others…

Yes other professions have other stuff, but so does thieves. You are hardly only defined by that little detail of shadow step. Or do we get to ignore you have insane access to stealth because it’s convenient to do so? I don’t know how many times I’d not be dead had I had stealth instead of mist form. Please…

Shortcuts where never a bug you could just shadowstep higher up it was the same road/ It bothers me when i’m playing in a CPT i can’t shadow step normally away from people without getting no valid path i incountered it this night multipule times and its just not fun anymore i don’t really care about these kind of shortcuts if Anet wanted us to not use them they could have done that on a diffrent way and not screwing with a good system

Are you saying thief isn’t fun and thinking about stopping playing with one because you cannot teleport to the roof anymore? That wasn’t even fair and needed to be patched. Too bad took the devs this long to fix it.

You can still teleport, you can still disengage, you can still stealth, in over all the class mechanics is now working as intended.

If you need to use a short cut to the roof to avoid a zerg, it is time for you to adapt as we all had or just stay still and let them trample you as I do when playing my guardian…

So you say you want to rally everyone by just giving them lootbags ok, but as i said i don’t care about that i can’t get these kind of shortcuts atleast let Anet do it good right away i don’t know if you ever missed tp on a edge but you couldn’t get on an edge why didn’t Anet do that it would work for a lot of people. even when you are in open field it sometimes kittens it up. in my opinion remove the shortcuts fine but goback to your old system and not this system its already causing trouble for people and i know i’m not the only one.

You people dont seem to understand that stealth is broken as it is.
I understand that if u bomb aoe or spam guard staff 1 to a place thief is in stealth, ofcourse it hits
As i said Ranger longbow rapid fire. It still targets you if you are in stealth even if you dodge in stealth
Necro axe skill 2 ghastly claws still hits you 8 times even if you have stealthed before 1st hit and dodge it, rest of the hits will still be succesful.
So i think that doesnt count as survival does it?
Aswell as rangers see where the arrows go they know exactly where you are moving because they still have long skill that doesent lose target.
As i said it keeps target even if you have stealthed long ago before the first hit and dodge

I feel it is perfectly reasonable that they finally disallowed instant movement to unreasonable locations. In my opinion, anyone that cannot adjust, are weaker plyers.

el crazy charr.3876:

So you say you want to rally everyone by just giving them lootbags ok, but as i said i don’t care about that i can’t get these kind of shortcuts atleast let Anet do it good right away i don’t know if you ever missed tp on a edge but you couldn’t get on an edge why didn’t Anet do that it would work for a lot of people. even when you are in open field it sometimes kittens it up. in my opinion remove the shortcuts fine but goback to your old system and not this system its already causing trouble for people and i know i’m not the only one.

Rally who if am solo or duo roamer? Not everyone likes zergs fights, you know?
We both won’t stand a chance anyway against a zerg and if the guild wants to waste their time to kill a single guy standing there instead of actually looking for fights and probably have no loot due to the outnumbered fight, by all means, do it. lol

Also, if the thief is good and trying to pick up the tail, there shouldn’t be enough people hitting on him to make a zerg rally.

The OP complain is how about he cannot use short cuts to get rid of zergs nor avoid choke point with it anymore thus making it a “nerf”. There are other ways to do it, the infiltrator skills were just the fastest and lazy one. In a way, thieves will have to adapt and play using the teleport in an horizontal path, no more advantage.

It wasn’t a nerf, it was a fix, that’s my discussion. Now if want to point out the code needs a revaluation, needs to be checked because often reports a terrain as invalid when it shouldn’t, then that’s a completely different thing and should be reported as a bug.

Every day i seen minimum 1 thief who exploited this. Le thief standing, trying to burst you down and if he not success within 2 sec just stepped to a point where i (or anyone else) couldnt follow

Finally. (+15 signs)

Its a bug fix or a balance long over do,thieves still got there OP stealth and 50% movement speed and dont need 30m blink.

TLDR; they only way OP can survive is by using bugged shortcuts.

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

You are hardly only defined by that little detail of shadow step.

This is how you know this guy has never played thief LOL

Well if this was a bug fix why are there still places you can shadowstep on you can walk there so you should be able to shadow step there right. So why did the shadow step at vale camp got ‘removed’ while the same roof at water camp is still accesable almost same distance and its the same roof. So explain me this please.

Less trolling – more fighting. If this completely destroys how a thief play i dunno anymore.

Funnily enough i found most teleportation spots working way better than before. At least on the very same structure located near the south east keep on the borderlands. Teleporting onto the straw roof works from anywhere and any angle now, not just from specific locations or angles. Didnt get to test that in the south west keep area yet, but i´ll make sure to head over there once i´m home today. Also its not like it is a Thief only thing. Last time i checked, Guardians, Elementalists and Necromancers could do the very same thing. It is called map awareness and proper usage of terrain, a kind of skill which is – aside from skills necassary to do it – profession independent.

And anyone calling this exploiting or bug usage in general: It is neither because whenever you can reach a certain point by merely walking to it, you should be able to teleport there. If you cannot walt there, teleportation should not be possible. And this patch finally fixed all the real teleportation bugs as in reaching unreachable locations, for example entering the outer border of the citadel on each borderland by using a teleport where the wall connects to cliffs to the west of the north keep – you could then get onto the straw wall and traverse it all the way into the area protected by legendary NPCs. This is not possible anymore. But anything else should be, like Nilfhel castle, which finally is easily doable from any location or angle on the plateau and not just from a specific spot on max range on the stairs.

Yeah I think youre going to have a hard time arguing thieves ability to disengage and re-engage at will having a small nerf. They pretty much saved majority of your ability there. The tele nerf was a big thing in the guardian forums until it actually happened and even they stopped complaining with their few teles that require a target to work.

McWolfy.5924:

Every day i seen minimum 1 thief who exploited this. Le thief standing, trying to burst you down and if he not success within 2 sec just stepped to a point where i (or anyone else) couldnt follow

Exactly. Finally this bug was fixed. In fact one could argue that shadow stepping skills were buffed thanks to the new changes to the camera.

Alchemist.3692:

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

You are hardly only defined by that little detail of shadow step.

This is how you know this guy has never played thief LOL

So, you are telling me that, to you, that little difference is all there is to the profession? Who hasn’t played thief again?

Thief QQ rofl……really? You need nerfs to the ground.

TeemuS.7934:

You people dont seem to understand that stealth is broken as it is.
I understand that if u bomb aoe or spam guard staff 1 to a place thief is in stealth, ofcourse it hits
As i said Ranger longbow rapid fire. It still targets you if you are in stealth even if you dodge in stealth
Necro axe skill 2 ghastly claws still hits you 8 times even if you have stealthed before 1st hit and dodge it, rest of the hits will still be succesful.
So i think that doesnt count as survival does it?
Aswell as rangers see where the arrows go they know exactly where you are moving because they still have long skill that doesent lose target.
As i said it keeps target even if you have stealthed long ago before the first hit and dodge

Until you cannot stealth/attack/stealth/attack/stealth/attack me until I die I don’t car if they nerf you into non-existence.

That’s cool. The class with some of the most mobility got a slight reduction. Know what else? The class with the least mobility, Necromancer, got a reduction as well via nerfing Flesh Wurm. Imagine if they thought Thieves had too much health so they nerfed all of you by 3k base health so the maximum you could have in full zerk was 8k. That’s how us Necro’s feel about our mobility right now…

TeemuS.7934:

You people dont seem to understand that stealth is broken as it is.
I understand that if u bomb aoe or spam guard staff 1 to a place thief is in stealth, ofcourse it hits
As i said Ranger longbow rapid fire. It still targets you if you are in stealth even if you dodge in stealth
Necro axe skill 2 ghastly claws still hits you 8 times even if you have stealthed before 1st hit and dodge it, rest of the hits will still be succesful.
So i think that doesnt count as survival does it?
Aswell as rangers see where the arrows go they know exactly where you are moving because they still have long skill that doesent lose target.
As i said it keeps target even if you have stealthed long ago before the first hit and dodge

Boo hoo, some skills can hit me…

Seriously, stop playing full zerk, learn to dodge RF (or learn to count so you can time a dodge at the start of it), and ghostly claws can’t hit if they are blinded, stunned, or a variety of other ways to mitigate damage against you.

I hardly ever use shadowstep on my thief and survive just fine.

As for moving to places others cannot reach, glad they finally got around to fixing this, now the skill is working as intended.

Can’t nerf blind, cause it’s literally the only way Thieves can survive.
Can’t nerf evades cause it’s literally the only way Thieves can stay alive
Can’t touch Stealth because it’s literally all Thieves have to not die.
Can’t tweak teleports, because without it Thieves drop dead instantly.
Can’t fix a broken mechanic where you could shadowstep through terrain and to places otherwise unreachable or very difficult to reach, because Thieves will literally implode in on themselves.

It’s the same Thief whine every time. Fix one thing and the sky is falling because that one thing was literally their only way to stay alive. You know, besides those other things.

Instant invisibility in full sight of the enemy…
cry me a river

Now my wet dream would be to remove "Shadow Arts" trait line, so I could actually *fight* a thief, and not just see them repeatedly flash in and out of existence every 4 seconds.

I think patching shadow step is fine. I play thief, and I don’t need to ss to the top of buildings that are off limits to the other classes. At the same time, to everyone complaining about thieves having op stealth….ranger 2 can burst you to down state while you are invisible, guardians, mesmers, and necros can force you out of shadow refuge early to make you visible and unable to to stealth again for a few seconds. On top of that, every single class can spam damage on you while in shadow refuge. So invisibility isn’t something to complain about when it comes to thieves, especially when Mesmers have just as much invisibility. Thieves have the hardest time surviving in the game out of all classes, so if you complain about them having some invisibility, you just like to whine like a little kid because you can’t kill a thief in two seconds. warriors can literally 3 shot a thief to death, guardians can 5shot a thief to death, necros can get 5 condis on a thief which will kill them in a matter of seconds without getting close to the thief etc. I’m not saying to buff thief, but thieves aren’t nearly as op as you people are making them out to be just because they have some invisibility(which as I mentioned before is glitched, and doesn’t make them untouchable like you are making it out to be).

I’m not sure about you guys but when I’m in the open and and try to Shadowstep, 3 times out of 10 it says invalid path especially if there is a slight z-axis movement involved. This can easily be found with bridges where I encounter this invalid path crap 7 times out of 10. To me, that makes it unusable as I can’t rely on it at all. Reliability is the main problem here. Doing Fractals, I use S/P skill #2 to get to my target, except when I go to use it sometimes it says invalid path even though the target is right in front of me on a flat place with no obstructions in the way. What does that make the skill? unreliable and hence cannot be counted on to work reliably and therefore unusable.

Most teleportation spots work so flawless now, many new have been added simply because the pathing has been extremely upgraded. In the process, some others which used to work before may not be working anymore because they actually have been bugged teleports. Just adapt to the new mechanics, don´t target the floor near walls, and even more importantly: relearn all the spts. There is so much to discover right now. Anyone calling this a nerf to thieves or any other teleport reliant build / profession is either unable or unwilling to adapt to the now definitely better pathing of shadowstepping and teleportation abilities. If anything, its a rather hefty buff to jumpy playstyles.

Sure there are a lot bugs left to squash, but would you rather like to waste your Shadowstep CD on a failing teleport than receiving red text saying “invalid path” on your screen? I sure vote for the latter. Since the update no Steal, Infiltrator’s Strike or -Signet have failed to work (for me).