Was wanting to get peoples thoughts on whether or not they think the wvw meta will change and if so what you think the new one will be after the hot launch….with the new specialziations and new balancing i could see a possible change on the horrizon
Big Papa Chase – Warrior and Guardian
Papa’s Lady Luck- Necro
(HELL)
The meta will of course change, this is not a regular balance change that shifts the meta every couple months, this is a game changing expansion thats coming this week. But until we know whats actually being released with each profession we wont know what will be useful in wvw. Also more experience with the new map with also affect the meta as well especially in terms of roaming/havok.
I say what needs to be said, get used to it.
Honesty is not insulting, stupidity is.
>Class Balance is a Joke<
Roaming will surely change but zerg meta is far simpler than class meta. You need melee and you need ranged. Zerging will behave the same regardless of what classes is behind it. Either you have a 50/50 setup, ranged heavy (ie pirateshipping) or melee heavy.
The biggest question mark is the guardian. If the bow turn out to be effective, we’re looking at 90% guard zergs, lol. They already make up a vast majority of melee trains, seeing as warriors are so rare nowadays (its not really GWEN anymore).
Zerg meta won’t change. The amount of damage and cc simply requires you to have a pvt frontline which then has to be supported by a zerker backline to still deal some damage.
The class meta will change a bit but the way Zergs or Large organized play functions won’t really change, unless these are some serious changes to CC or Stability we are going to be stuck with this craptastic Pirate ship meta. I seriously hope they do something soon, I see more complaining in game about Pirate Ship meta being boring and not enjoyable than I ever saw about the hammer train meta. This meta isn’t engaging, and promotes mindless key pounding not to mention huge zergs. I’m not against zerging but mindless zerging in my mind is not the same thing. Players should have to think about what skills they are using instead of throwing down 101 CC’s to cause the Mexican standoffs that continually happen.
Yea the stab changes I could live with, its the pirate shipping that resulted from the stab nerfs that really drastically altered wvw in such a negative way that frustrates me. Its made using frontline for me an unfun experience and basically forces you to play a full tanky build and even then its like sometimes you can barely go a few seconds before having to back and heal up because of so much cc’s, aoe bombs, and condi spam.
I say what needs to be said, get used to it.
Honesty is not insulting, stupidity is.
>Class Balance is a Joke<
There is just too much hard AoE CC in this game and it will only get worse because the elite specs and the Revenant have a lot of hard CC in store.
- Revenant/Herald: Hammer #5, Staff #5, Glint elite, axe #5, Jade winds
- Reaper: GS #5, shroud #3 and #5, shout elite
- Dragonhunter: LB #5, Spear of justice(2nd effect will pull enemies in), trap elite
- Chronomancer: Shield #5, well elite(probably one of the most powerful AoE CC’s in the game). You can cast it twice because of the new shatter.
- Scrapper: 2 lightning fields, gyros AoE daze upon destruction.
I’m not gonna list everything because it is a waste of time. Just be aware that no amount of stability stacks will save you from the cancer that will arrive next week.
Solution?
- Bring old stability back & decrease its duration to compensate
Interesting that nobody mentioned the amazing amount of healing you can dish out with Druids and Reventaurs (Ventari Revenants) as a factor that will contribute to the new meta.
Also, Inspiring Reinforcement from the Dwarf stance – altho quite clumsy to use – could be an interesting development for the lack of stability in big fights.
For me the biggest question remains: will the new borderland map actually render the blobs obsolete? A meta based on smaller fights (20-30ish per side instead of 50-80) could change a lot from the current one in my opinion.
Looking forward to all the testing and experimenting with the new builds, classes and elite specs
Interesting that nobody mentioned the amazing amount of healing you can dish out with Druids and Reventaurs (Ventari Revenants) as a factor that will contribute to the new meta.
Healing doesnt help when the enemy Guardian 11111111 train start rolling/judging over you. Zergs currently have “enough” healing with waterfields and empower. Other classes will only come into play if they can be extremely usefull at one specific thing, like the ele stun, or provide an insane amount of dps.
Revenants hasnt impressed me, but I suppose if Druids still can instakill people on live with that solarbeam thingie they have some use in focus parties.
After 2 years out of the game… the zergy-zerg feeling is horrendous in the current state. Almost enough to uninstall the big kick kitten update I just did and delete it all! During the weekend a few of my friends & I were in a reasonably well skilled group and found ourselves literally stun locked against a train with maybe only 5-8 extra in their group (20v25ish). Even if some of us were able to pop out… we lost 5+ every darn time we come near. I am not even how much each of the mechanics has changed but my old Guardian (pure defence spec) was at least able to stand up and move a bit.. haha.
I’ve read a few statements that the new maps will make it next to impossible to blob up in massive numbers without getting decimated — or just being bag fodder.
I have a feeling/kinda hoping that Reaper will be pretty broken on release, and be great in zergs. A Pull + stability + nice AoE damage/chill/vulnerability. As much as I want to try the Revenant, I think I may have to play around with Reaper for a few weeks first
I have a feeling/kinda hoping that Reaper will be pretty broken on release, and be great in zergs. A Pull + stability + nice AoE damage/chill/vulnerability. As much as I want to try the Revenant, I think I may have to play around with Reaper for a few weeks first
I can see it working, specially if you go like a minion bomber build with rise, or just a good old fashioned frontline well build. The bad thing is just making sure you have enough stability to hit.
But I think the biggest thing that will change Zerg warfare will be the maps and how they’re designed.
A knight in shining armor is a man who never had his metal truly tested.
- Bring old stability back & decrease its duration to compensate
That is by no means a solution. That simply brings back the old problem. Which was much worse.
An actual solution would be to limit the traits, range, area of effect, duration, and player cap, of existing crowd control skills.
Fair enough. I didn’t really think it through. However, they need to do a balance pass for the CC abilities with no target limit. As much as I love playing my staff ele or hammer/staff guardian (both of which have CC with no target limit), a target cap is a necessary evil to bring back a more fun and healthier meta.
There is just too much hard AoE CC in this game and it will only get worse because the elite specs and the Revenant have a lot of hard CC in store.
- Revenant/Herald: Hammer #5, Staff #5, Glint elite, axe #5, Jade winds
- Reaper: GS #5, shroud #3 and #5, shout elite
- Dragonhunter: LB #5, Spear of justice(2nd effect will pull enemies in), trap elite
- Chronomancer: Shield #5, well elite(probably one of the most powerful AoE CC’s in the game). You can cast it twice because of the new shatter.
- Scrapper: 2 lightning fields, gyros AoE daze upon destruction.
I’m not gonna list everything because it is a waste of time. Just be aware that no amount of stability stacks will save you from the cancer that will arrive next week.
Solution?
- Bring old stability back & decrease its duration to compensate
or
- Reduce CC across the board
Edit: Typo
Coordinated hard CC is the only way a smaller group can take down a larger group in most situations, with out hard CC (and honestly raising aoe cap on attacks) all you do is reinforce the zerg ball meta. Large fights can be fun and safety in numbers is a tactic but for the most part zerg balling is a way to just game the.mechanical limitations.
Edit: of course other things need to be looked at too like toughness not really making a huge difference and the disparity in damage out put vs defense on class by class basis.
Hopefully the new maps just make it harder to run in a giant clump from place to place and splitting into smaller groups say 10-20 people is a useful tactic
