Guild Wars 2

Lets put in this topic the next experiments you’d like to see after the “no white swords” and the PPK experiments.

I’ve two in mind right now:

1) get rid of or increase the AoE cap;
2) get rid of downed state in WvW.

What you guys/girls would like to experiment next in WvW?

Personally, I think those are two of the worst ideas out there. The AoE cap was implemented for a reason.

I love the down state. I find it to be fun flavor that doesn’t hurt anyone.

Nothing against you, but I hate those two specific suggestions, and feel they are the last thing i would want to experiment with. Especially since we have already experienced the different, much larger AoE cap in the past. It was horrible.

No ACs week, please.

Event: “Iron Curtain”
Rules: “Gates cannot be damaged by players until gate hp reaches 33%” (gate’s skin would change at that point into the damaged one that you can see through a bit)

The events idea would be to make it more difficult to just destroy keep gates by attacking with 60 players and just hitting the door until its gone.

Earlier suggestion about aoe cap and downedstate isnt what Id like. I like downed state so much i feel weird and empty indide now when I play any other MMO which doest have it. Stomping and ressing is such a great mechanic.

Collision detection between players.

No…really.

Coinhead.7591:

Event: “Iron Curtain”
Rules: “Gates cannot be damaged by players until gate hp reaches 33%” (gate’s skin would change at that point into the damaged one that you can see through a bit)

In my experience the only reason players bother attacking the gate is because of “siege disablers”. They much rather not make orange swords.

Coinhead.7591:

The events idea would be to make it more difficult to just destroy keep gates by attacking with 60 players and just hitting the door until its gone.

The problem here is that siege disablers will make it nye impossible to do any damage to the gate.

yanniell.1236:

Lets put in this topic the next experiments you’d like to see after the “no white swords” and the PPK experiments. … What you guys/girls would like to experiment next in WvW?

The simplest one I can think of? Triple the hit points of walls and gates. Slow down zerg rushes and see if the attacker/defender balance tips closer to some hypothetical ideal state.

More controversial, probably not a good idea, but I’d love to see it tried: drastically reduce the price, and reduce the supply needs, of the tier 2 and 3 keep and tower upgrades. I’ll admit my bias here, if you can’t guess it from the above: I think paper gates and paper walls are boring and unfun.

There are probably also some interesting experiments that could be performed with the [Outnumbered] functionality, too, adding buffs. Maybe add toughness and vitality for the badly-outnumbered side? Maybe halve the distance at which they can be seen? Maybe give badly-outnumbered side +5 salvage capacity? Maybe some kind of buff to Downed state so that it’s easier for them to rally? Maybe have Siegeraiser also drop an alpha golem build site if [Outnumbered] is still up when he reaches the keep? I’m sure others could come up with better and/or weirder ideas.

Oh, and speaking of which, here’s a crazy idea that has nothing to do with [Outnumbered]. I’d love to try a brief experiment where siege (other than golems, obviously) is immune to damage from, or at least highly resistant to damage from, anything other than siege. That a couple of staff elementalists or grenadiers can strip all the siege off of the outer walls before the fight even begins, in a matter of seconds per, makes that siege pretty pointless; it’d be interesting to see what would happen if the attackers had to deploy catapults or ballistas to take down oil, mortars, even arrow carts. There are already a couple of places where you almost have to, if the defenders put their arrow carts in smart places.

InfamousBrad.5879:

yanniell.1236:

Lets put in this topic the next experiments you’d like to see after the “no white swords” and the PPK experiments. … What you guys/girls would like to experiment next in WvW?

The simplest one I can think of? Triple the hit points of walls and gates. Slow down zerg rushes and see if the attacker/defender balance tips closer to some hypothetical ideal state.

More controversial, probably not a good idea, but I’d love to see it tried: drastically reduce the price, and reduce the supply needs, of the tier 2 and 3 keep and tower upgrades. I’ll admit my bias here, if you can’t guess it from the above: I think paper gates and paper walls are boring and unfun.

There are probably also some interesting experiments that could be performed with the [Outnumbered] functionality, too, adding buffs. Maybe add toughness and vitality for the badly-outnumbered side? Maybe halve the distance at which they can be seen? Maybe give badly-outnumbered side +5 salvage capacity? Maybe some kind of buff to Downed state so that it’s easier for them to rally? Maybe have Siegeraiser also drop an alpha golem build site if [Outnumbered] is still up when he reaches the keep? I’m sure others could come up with better and/or weirder ideas.

Oh, and speaking of which, here’s a crazy idea that has nothing to do with [Outnumbered]. I’d love to try a brief experiment where siege (other than golems, obviously) is immune to damage from, or at least highly resistant to damage from, anything other than siege. That a couple of staff elementalists or grenadiers can strip all the siege off of the outer walls before the fight even begins, in a matter of seconds per, makes that siege pretty pointless; it’d be interesting to see what would happen if the attackers had to deploy catapults or ballistas to take down oil, mortars, even arrow carts. There are already a couple of places where you almost have to, if the defenders put their arrow carts in smart places.

If people place siege in decent spots it doesn’t get stripped out as much. Though that idea of nerfing damage done to siege without siege would also cause some classes to lose 50% of not more of their useful ness in wvw. Causing a decline in said classes use, and also causing upset players.

I mean it’s not like a player can’t set an AC to where it is hard to be AOE’d down, and even if the damage was siege to siege only, AC’s would become the new META for killing siege on walls. (Which would destroy more siege on walls for defenders, then players hitting does.) Also setting Catas/Trebs/Ballista’s/AC’s to take down enemy siege already happens. Heck some people play certain classes, and are built to deal with enemy siege and take it down.

Instead of nerfing out a few classes even further, players should learn where they can set siege which is impossible or nearly impossible for players to hit without other siege. (Yes it is possible to set siege like that.)

Tripling hp/wall HP would deter havoc groups from attacking, and force them to join in on the “blob” and I hate to say it but no matter how much hp/def on walls/gates is increased, a “blob” will nom on them like candy.

I mean how to prevent the blob from getting in quicker then a small havoc group should be the main focus. Not increasing wall/gate hp to promote blobbing and deter havocing.

No downed state. Sieges can be used and damaged by anyone. Sieges hit everybody, friend or foe. Sieges cant damage through gate.

Argos Helios.4965:

Collision detection between players.

No…really.

I totaly want that dude! Thats why gw1 pvp was sooo great

evildan.8260:

No ACs week, please.

We tried that once. There was one week a while back where a bug meant that no siege could be placed, except golems. It was pretty fun.

Instead of "no downed state", how about "no rally" ? That seems to be the main issue in larger fights. One stomp and 3-5 people automatically returns, and can turn the tide of a fight.

It would be interesting to see AoE hit a few more targets, nothing drastic say 7-8, that should still work without to much engine problems and lag. (Granted, I’m slightly biased on that since I play on low tier server, so not much lag).

Also if you remove AC’s what else is there to deal with large groups ? It is just about the only thing we got that can hit multiple enemies over the normal skill caps, and can create "no enter" zones to force people away from gates etc. Heck if they want to find a way to break up zergs, make the AC even better against packed up players (but perhaps weaker against 2-3).

Iron Curtain: I would definitively like to see an event where the walls are invulnerable to PvD, to see how that turned out. SiegeDisruptors would be a thing, but perhaps people would start learning to actually siege from a distance again.

Collision detection: That could be really interesting, imagine how many people would fail to dodge out of an AC because of that! But on the whole I’d rather avoid it, it you just want a knee-jerk way to remove zergs, activate friendly fire.

Structure upgrades price reduction: This really should be a thing, even before the no white swords test lots of upgrades was just a waste of gold and supply. People are losing money from playing WvW if they upgrade a lot, since there is small returns. Instead of upgrading the rewards, might as well reduce the costs. I am also of the belief that the structures in WvW should work closer to the EotM variants, that starts tougher from the start, and rather have less upgrades, that includes the home keeps always having a WP.

"Mishi"

I mean how to prevent the blob from getting in quicker then a small havoc group should be the main focus. Not increasing wall/gate hp to promote blobbing and deter havocing.

Agreed, but not really any good suggestions. The idea of no player damage vs door, siege only, is the closest I can come up with, lots of zergs don’t have the patience if they get repeatedly Siege Disrupted.

Here’s a brilliant idea.
Remove gates and replace all Lords with mini Tequatls.

1) Hell no. The AoE cap exists for a reason.
2) No downed state, no stomps, no reason for people to buy finishers. It will never happen (and I like my finishers).

Ideas I think they might be considering for WvW:

1 – Removing the minimap.
2 – Removing the world map.
3 – Removing team and map chat.

And then they will state some guilds requested this, and with these changes now parties and guilds will be much more important and that’s exactly what we want.

Remove rally and you fix biggest issue with downed state

I wouldn’t be all that opposed to removing rally. It’s actually a really crappy mechanic when you think about it.

Mishi.7058:

If people place siege in decent spots it doesn’t get stripped out as much. Though that idea of nerfing damage done to siege without siege would also cause some classes to lose 50% of not more of their useful ness in wvw. Causing a decline in said classes use, and also causing upset players.

I mean it’s not like a player can’t set an AC to where it is hard to be AOE’d down, and even if the damage was siege to siege only, AC’s would become the new META for killing siege on walls. (Which would destroy more siege on walls for defenders, then players hitting does.) Also setting Catas/Trebs/Ballista’s/AC’s to take down enemy siege already happens. Heck some people play certain classes, and are built to deal with enemy siege and take it down.

Instead of nerfing out a few classes even further, players should learn where they can set siege which is impossible or nearly impossible for players to hit without other siege. (Yes it is possible to set siege like that.)

Tripling hp/wall HP would deter havoc groups from attacking, and force them to join in on the “blob” and I hate to say it but no matter how much hp/def on walls/gates is increased, a “blob” will nom on them like candy.

I mean how to prevent the blob from getting in quicker then a small havoc group should be the main focus. Not increasing wall/gate hp to promote blobbing and deter havocing.

I was thinking less of placed siege than of the almost entirely useless oil and cannons and the barely situational mortars. The first thing any squad does when they get to a tower is focus down the oil and the cannons, using AoEs that insta-gib anybody trying to use them. It makes them worse than useless. At this point they might as well remove them from the game, they exist just as speed bumps the defending players have to waste supply and worker time on to unlock waypoints.

Useless default siege and paper-thin walls and gates both feed exactly what you like that I hate: the idea that 4 people can flip a tower or even a keep so fast that no defenders can possibly arrive to counter them. It’s what leads to roaming mobs flipping unattended objectives rather than fighting each other. It’s the exact opposite of PvP.

As a guild mate said to me last week “mutations should add just as much as they take away”.

If a feature of WvW is taken away for a monthly event, something should also be added.

Example: This month golems and rams require twice the supply to build. Trebuchets and catapults do double damage.

Example: This month white swords no longer appear when an objective is contested. Orange swords appear when more than 5 players engage in combat.

Example: This month dolyaks are permanently chilled. Camps and tower/keep supply huts can store twice as much supply.

InfamousBrad.5879:

Mishi.7058:

If people place siege in decent spots it doesn’t get stripped out as much. Though that idea of nerfing damage done to siege without siege would also cause some classes to lose 50% of not more of their useful ness in wvw. Causing a decline in said classes use, and also causing upset players.

I mean it’s not like a player can’t set an AC to where it is hard to be AOE’d down, and even if the damage was siege to siege only, AC’s would become the new META for killing siege on walls. (Which would destroy more siege on walls for defenders, then players hitting does.) Also setting Catas/Trebs/Ballista’s/AC’s to take down enemy siege already happens. Heck some people play certain classes, and are built to deal with enemy siege and take it down.

Instead of nerfing out a few classes even further, players should learn where they can set siege which is impossible or nearly impossible for players to hit without other siege. (Yes it is possible to set siege like that.)

Tripling hp/wall HP would deter havoc groups from attacking, and force them to join in on the “blob” and I hate to say it but no matter how much hp/def on walls/gates is increased, a “blob” will nom on them like candy.

I mean how to prevent the blob from getting in quicker then a small havoc group should be the main focus. Not increasing wall/gate hp to promote blobbing and deter havocing.

I was thinking less of placed siege than of the almost entirely useless oil and cannons and the barely situational mortars. The first thing any squad does when they get to a tower is focus down the oil and the cannons, using AoEs that insta-gib anybody trying to use them. It makes them worse than useless. At this point they might as well remove them from the game, they exist just as speed bumps the defending players have to waste supply and worker time on to unlock waypoints.

Useless default siege and paper-thin walls and gates both feed exactly what you like that I hate: the idea that 4 people can flip a tower or even a keep so fast that no defenders can possibly arrive to counter them. It’s what leads to roaming mobs flipping unattended objectives rather than fighting each other. It’s the exact opposite of PvP.

Well if damage is siege to siege only for Oil/Cannons I could see it possibly. However I still feel that instead of changing the mechanic of how siege is damaged, they could do things to improve the “pre built” siege. Though I think that should be done as more of an extra upgrade type of thing, which someone scouting could run the supplies/talk to xx npc, and manually upgrade “pre built” siege to higher levels than just the standard prebuilt.

Maybe do :
Stage one: from keep upgrades/tower= how is it now
Then have manual upgrading which could be done to add HP, Add Def, or make Invulnerable to players only.

Like for oil, maybe have to donate wood, use supply, and donate some ore to go invuln, but make it decent amounts required. (since pot is metal, and wood burns to cause fire to heat oil up haha.)

Cannon could be ore, and some other stuff, and mortars other things you get while gathering.

Provided that there is no lag, these two suggestions would promote more skillful large scale play. People can and will still zerg but there won’t be such utter safety in it. I can’t count how many times I’ve seen groups use really sloppy tactics because they know the these two mechanics will save them.

Edit: Keep downed state, remove rally so your team has to use a skill and put something on cooldown or manual res and risk getting bombed back to the stone age(which would be so awesome without an AoE cap!).

If Rally/Downed were removed, GW2 would lose something which is very different than most games.

Does everyone want a cookie cutter type of mmorpg?

Guild Wars Original was more unique than GW2, less similar to all the other MMOs on the market, Guild Wars 2 is the opposite, it’s more to what you could call a generic MMO.
They’ve already abandoned almost all the things that made the original game unique and all the promises made more than a year ago, I don’t see why they should suddenly be against removing downed/rally.

Argos Helios.4965:

Collision detection between players.

No…really.

Player collision would be great but I don’t think we’ll ever see it. Same reason as aoe cap, the servers are already under stress in very big battles, my guess is it would get much worse with all the extra calculations. Based on past experience, both of those would greatly improve wvw, if not for technical limitations.

• no cooldown after the destruction of cannons, mortars and hot oil
• restructure of gates to the way they are built in EOTM. Oils not attackable from large distance.
• more sites for mortars and cannons are unlocked by upgrades.
• defense events grant badges on success
• destruction of supplies via traps and cows grants WEP
• cannons, oil and mortars behave like Karka: destroy the shield first before you can damage operator and weapon.
• alarm devices/motion detector from EOTM should work in traditional WvW too. maybe a new trap/trick

Maskaganda.2043:

Argos Helios.4965:

Collision detection between players.

No…really.

Player collision would be great but I don’t think we’ll ever see it. Same reason as aoe cap, the servers are already under stress in very big battles, my guess is it would get much worse with all the extra calculations. Based on past experience, both of those would greatly improve wvw, if not for technical limitations.

I don’t know about the engine limitations. But a few other things to keep in mind:

If you change this, you will also have to change this for the entire PvE section of players, and they will scream bloody murder. (I think it would actually be a better change for PvE than WvW, because they would have to spread out for boss fights etc like the shatterer. Make those boring fights slightly more interesting).

It doesn’t have to be full collision detection, you could probably just make an effect where you get say 25/33/50% slower movement while you’re technically “inside” someone else. And a whole lot of players would probably get frustrated with the lesser mobility, and spread out more.

Full Collision detection would either have to be ignored for dodge rolls, or dodge rolls would be impossible in lot of situations, or limited. And we already have trouble getting new players to dodge as is.

I’m completely ok with just removing the rally mechanics from WvW and keeping the downed state.

And there’s a lot of others awesome suggestion in this topic, like defensive siege not attackable with skills from the ground, making defense more viable and attacking more challenging.

Hope the devs are reading it and giving it a thought.

Remove PVD, player now cant damage structures.
Decrease players damage to siege like 70-80%.
Decrease damage from siege to structures.

Aeolus.3615:

Remove PVD, player now cant damage structures.
Decrease players damage to siege like 70-80%.
Decrease damage from siege to structures.

I would love to see a test with removing Player vs Door damage, so you would need siege to damage a door.

Don’t like the less damage to siege from players, I think there are other ways to make this more viable, like the above mentioned “shield” that you have to destroy the siege before the player takes damage (perhaps only from ranged attacks, so melee still hurt).

No, we don’t want even less damage from siege to structures, that would just make it even more boring to tear down walls and doors as it is. If you make it even slower than it is, then small groups will grow beards while trying to take down a tower door. Without the swords atm, if you’re not there to defend it or happen to be near, all that would happen is that you’re making small groups spend longer time on sitting ramming 1 button.

Seriously already ANet, make the stupid ram auto attack ! >_< It is a great time to go fetch more to drink or some potato chips, but you’re stuck there hitting 1, 1, 1, 1, 1 over and over…

Well, actually players with traited siege on walls or doors is just a matter of seconds, not even talking the spots on under cliff that will damage walls from the inside or siege AOE glitches, reason for the damage nerf.