Guild Wars 2

@ Sky

I’m glad we agree on one thing, if you put all four of my ideas to work it would make a better over all WvWvW game.

Not just for the top three servers but all of them.

I will agree to disagree about the 2 v 1 thing as I’m sure we both will not change our minds.

I’m getting tired of HOD too, but would not move to the number two server I think it would be fun to move much further down.

Talk to you guys later

I just made a post that would also help with the nightcapping phenomenon, so here is the link: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/wuvwuv/A-Limit-on-Zerg-Tactics/first#post325377

Tell me what you think!

Binafus.8153:

@ Ped

I’m not giving you numbers I’m giving you an actual case of it last week ET and SBI vs HOD they were winning after four days.

They were mainly focusing on HOD but were still fighting each other some, if they would have divided all four maps in half and not gave up I feel they would have put HOD in third for the week and think most of SBI and ET players can see this.

I tossed out four solutions that would help.

I want some good competition.

I’m not upset with you Binafus, but you still aren’t seeing things clearly.

ET and SBI both focused on HoD, that’s true. HoD was losing by the end of the weekend, that’s true too.

Tuesday @ prime time, HoD had completely 100% reversed this 3 days of LOSING and were now WINNING.

Do you understand that? Three full days of losing in points, and then the next day they are winning. And you’re saying they should have just kept doing it? One single night Binafus. ONE NIGHT changed HoD from 3rd place to 1st.

2v1 doesn’t make a difference, after the FIRST full night-cap.
This is a problem, because it decimates the W3 participation rates.

Your “actual case” was already proven false at last page. Please read it up.

Besides it is mathematically impossible as it was ALSO proven last page. Please read it up.

Roughly:
(700 points x 48night + 0 points x 48day) > (0 points x 48night + 450 points x 48day)

Besides when day time comes they will be facing upgraded keeps WITH atleast some competition (unless its a PURE Oceanic server, for example). While the nightcappers will face fully upgraded keeps from daytime without ANY opposition usually + fact that they will usually at some point also fight the 2nd server which is active.

Hey!
My issues with nightcapping are these:
- I claim a keep with my guild, spend gold (which is not easy to come by as it is) and after playing a hour or 2 with my kep, i go to sleep, come back the next day, and its gone, time, and gold wasted for naught;
- I Activate any “Art of War” upgrades, and since my keep is gone, even though i had it fully upgraded, those buffs are now useless;
- Not only there’s the nightcapping issue, but also the 4 hour queues which prevent me from protecting my investment.

So here’s a few suggestions (some may be a bit far fetched, but hey):
- Create a new currency (Lets call it Mist coins), similar to karma, but exclusive to wvw. Whenever players would complete events, kill other players, or even mobs inside the mist players would get this along (or instead) of Coin.
“Mist coins” would be used for all keep upgrades inside the Mist.
Some of the items currently purchasable with honor badges could be switched to use “mist coins”.
This would make investing into upgrading keeps seem less a waste, and also allow lower level players to invest on it without as much regret.

- Improve mist capacity or something… Queuing is killing wvw slowly. I mean, at first we had established that we’d go WvW with the guild on Saturday evenings. First time we went in for that we ended up quitting after 3h queuing. Nothing turns people down from games more than having to queue for stuff.

- Add a button to allow people to see the map of the mists from the WvW window, BEFORE entering them, so people can plan where to go, specially with 3h queues, its always nice to go to a world which is already fully conquered by your own, then waiting another 3h to switch.

- Add, not a automated night security system like many have suggested, but a manual one, as a Art of War Upgrade, or even as a option on the Guild Claim NPC.
My suggestion for this would be:
A 6h “buff” with a 20h cooldown (cooldown starts after activating, not after buff ends as to allow people to keep it up every time they retire to sleep).
This buff applies to a single keep, claimed by a guild, and has to be activated by a member of the guild with “activate upgrades” permission.
This buff would be called “Night Watch” or something simmilar. When a keep is under this buff, and is under attack, if there’s no one in the castle, or if there’s less than 5, and no guild members present, the buff would immediately spawn extra NPC Guards, Improved veterans, which would guard the walls of the keep. In addition to this half of every Siege machines resulting from Keep upgrades would be manned by a NPC, albeit with twice the cooldown (should be weighed with testing).

This way Guilds can rest somewhat easier knowing their keeps will be safer when they aren’t present, and Storming a Keep will always be challenging for invaders.

- Another measure could be that when a guild owns a Keep, a warning message could be displayed by the system whenever their Keep is under attack.
Further more, if the guild has waypoints, a “emergency deployment” might be activated, allowing guild members to teleport directly to their keep from outside the Mists. Restrictions as follow:
Emergency Deployment will be only available if all of the following are true:
The map has more than 50% availability for WvW, keep was upgraded with Waypoint, There’s more than 5 attackers.
The number of maximum defenders allowed to deploy with this should be no more than 1/3 of the attacking force, with a maximum of 10.

I believe these suggestions or similar changes would not only minimize the effects of night capping, but also make WvW more attractive to less PvP centric players.

Sky.9347:

Binafus.8153:

@ Ped

I’m not giving you numbers I’m giving you an actual case of it last week ET and SBI vs HOD they were winning after four days.

They were mainly focusing on HOD but were still fighting each other some, if they would have divided all four maps in half and not gave up I feel they would have put HOD in third for the week and think most of SBI and ET players can see this.

I tossed out four solutions that would help.

I want some good competition.

I’m not upset with you Binafus, but you still aren’t seeing things clearly.

ET and SBI both focused on HoD, that’s true. HoD was losing by the end of the weekend, that’s true too.

Tuesday @ prime time, HoD had completely 100% reversed this 3 days of LOSING and were now WINNING.

Do you understand that? Three full days of losing in points, and then the next day they are winning. And you’re saying they should have just kept doing it? One single night Binafus. ONE NIGHT changed HoD from 3rd place to 1st.

2v1 doesn’t make a difference, after the FIRST full night-cap.
This is a problem, because it decimates the W3 participation rates.

That would be a problem if there was no one else playing, but as a NA player that helped that night there was plenty of ET/SBI out defending they just got out played and lost ground that their teammates gained them. It was pretty equal actually.

Thats the part your not getting.

Its true that other servers literally have no one on at night but its been proven time and time again that the top servers have people at night. They just aren’t queing up for WvW, and the people in WvW aren’t that good at night, lack coordination and leaders, whereas HoD has that coordination and leaders even at night.

Btw HoD always has instant ques at night during the week, and maybe a 5-10 minute que during the weekend. Only during primetime is the que horrible.

This debate that deals with HoD/SBI/JQ/ET is all he said she said.

lollie.5816:

In your example, the next day server A and server B should be ignoring each other and picking on server C to regain lost ground…so the solution is in their own hands. This is just an example of poor tactics, and misdirected opportunism (lack of ambition) to only reach #2 position on 3 server fight. Put simply, they give up and scramble for #2 position and fight each other for that place.

You don’t even think your own ideas through before suggesting others implement them, do you?

Assume C here is Green, and the others are Red and Blue. Assume they, like you say, realize Green as “the true threat” and team up to utterly stomp Green during the day. Green gains no points for a whole 12 hour period, and Red and Blue equally divide the map, coexisting. Green still comes out ahead.

Teaming up against a stronger enemy only works when you’re seeking to deny them points when everyone is strong. During primetime, when everyone’s queue capped, 70 Red + 70 Blue can pressure 30 Green off the map, or even 70 Green into near-oblivion. That’s because 70+70 is 140, which is bigger than 70. But at night? Can 20 Red + 20 Blue (somehow miraculously working together) hold on to enough points of their own against 70 Green? Nooope! That’s because 20+20 is 40, still less than 70. Even then, this assumes some amazing cooperation on Red+Blue’s part for defense of each others’ territory. It’s easy to team up to beat the same guy out of towers on different parts of the map, but can Red+Blue fight one Green zerg side-by-side? Can Blue hit the back of a Green attack force at Red’s keep and resist the temptation to try and finish the job Green started? Probably not.. but even if they did, they’d still be losing to Green.

And this is where the problem comes up. Two servers will always have each other for competition during their primetimes, when they are expected to make points. They have to share a pie. One server, arguably the weakest, gets the whole pie for himself because no one was around when he walked into the kitchen. At the end of the week, that’s seven pies for Green, and only 3.5 for Red or Blue.

Namu.5712:

Sky.9347:

Binafus.8153:

@ Ped

I’m not giving you numbers I’m giving you an actual case of it last week ET and SBI vs HOD they were winning after four days.

They were mainly focusing on HOD but were still fighting each other some, if they would have divided all four maps in half and not gave up I feel they would have put HOD in third for the week and think most of SBI and ET players can see this.

I tossed out four solutions that would help.

I want some good competition.

I’m not upset with you Binafus, but you still aren’t seeing things clearly.

ET and SBI both focused on HoD, that’s true. HoD was losing by the end of the weekend, that’s true too.

Tuesday @ prime time, HoD had completely 100% reversed this 3 days of LOSING and were now WINNING.

Do you understand that? Three full days of losing in points, and then the next day they are winning. And you’re saying they should have just kept doing it? One single night Binafus. ONE NIGHT changed HoD from 3rd place to 1st.

2v1 doesn’t make a difference, after the FIRST full night-cap.
This is a problem, because it decimates the W3 participation rates.

That would be a problem if there was no one else playing, but as a NA player that helped that night there was plenty of ET/SBI out defending they just got out played and lost ground that their teammates gained them. It was pretty equal actually.

Thats the part your not getting.

Its true that other servers literally have no one on at night but its been proven time and time again that the top servers have people at night. They just aren’t queing up for WvW, and the people in WvW aren’t that good at night, lack coordination and leaders, whereas HoD has that coordination and leaders even at night.

Btw HoD always has instant ques at night during the week, and maybe a 5-10 minute que during the weekend. Only during primetime is the que horrible.

This debate that deals with HoD/SBI/JQ/ET is all he said she said.

Right, I see.

The entire weekend HoD was a distant last place, but once our “equally sized” night forces came on, HoD was simply so much better than both ET and SBI combined that they completely wiped them off of all 4 maps.

I see now. Totally a player skill issue. Makes perfect sense.

I really have very little hope for the future of WvW.
I also have a feeling if there were monthly rates the vast majority of pvpers would of cancelled by now.

How come the majority of the people who keep insisting that WvW is okay are the ones who are on the servers who do the nightcapping. This is interesting.

Zahdane.4029:

I really have very little hope for the future of WvW.
I also have a feeling if there were monthly rates the vast majority of pvpers would of cancelled by now.

BGs in WoW probably still aren’t balanced, but that never stopped anyone. Then again, BGs were a grind for statistic gear and titles, not server pride or status. Here, they’re only necessary for.. well, cosmetic gear.

They could easily save it if we got the equivalent of Realm Ranks from DAoC.
Extra abilities based on how many people you kill basically.

But that won’t happen before it’s too late.

Dinks.2478:

How come the majority of the people who keep insisting that WvW is okay are the ones who are on the servers who do the nightcapping. This is interesting.

I’ve noticed this, too. Then again, you can’t mention nightcapping on my server (which gets nightcapped) without getting ten people crawling up your butt about how it’s fair and how dare you try to ban Australians from the game and oh but we nightcap too when they’re asleep so it’s oka—hey, there it is: “We nightcap too.” Is that supposed to make me feel better? If it’s crappy when it happens to us, it’s crappy when we do it ourselves.

Sky.9347:

Namu.5712:

Sky.9347:

Binafus.8153:

@ Ped

I’m not giving you numbers I’m giving you an actual case of it last week ET and SBI vs HOD they were winning after four days.

They were mainly focusing on HOD but were still fighting each other some, if they would have divided all four maps in half and not gave up I feel they would have put HOD in third for the week and think most of SBI and ET players can see this.

I tossed out four solutions that would help.

I want some good competition.

I’m not upset with you Binafus, but you still aren’t seeing things clearly.

ET and SBI both focused on HoD, that’s true. HoD was losing by the end of the weekend, that’s true too.

Tuesday @ prime time, HoD had completely 100% reversed this 3 days of LOSING and were now WINNING.

Do you understand that? Three full days of losing in points, and then the next day they are winning. And you’re saying they should have just kept doing it? One single night Binafus. ONE NIGHT changed HoD from 3rd place to 1st.

2v1 doesn’t make a difference, after the FIRST full night-cap.
This is a problem, because it decimates the W3 participation rates.

That would be a problem if there was no one else playing, but as a NA player that helped that night there was plenty of ET/SBI out defending they just got out played and lost ground that their teammates gained them. It was pretty equal actually.

Thats the part your not getting.

Its true that other servers literally have no one on at night but its been proven time and time again that the top servers have people at night. They just aren’t queing up for WvW, and the people in WvW aren’t that good at night, lack coordination and leaders, whereas HoD has that coordination and leaders even at night.

Btw HoD always has instant ques at night during the week, and maybe a 5-10 minute que during the weekend. Only during primetime is the que horrible.

This debate that deals with HoD/SBI/JQ/ET is all he said she said.

Right, I see.

The entire weekend HoD was a distant last place, but once our “equally sized” night forces came on, HoD was simply so much better than both ET and SBI combined that they completely wiped them off of all 4 maps.

I see now. Totally a player skill issue. Makes perfect sense.

I like how you side stepped what I pointed out which is completely correct and chose to play the ya your right but im not gonna admit it card and instead comment on something totally irrelevant in my reply to you.

No ques on any of the 3 servers, all 3 were at high… yet we are the bad guys because we took everything in one go… clearly your server wasn’t empty so whats the reason you lost all that ground? Oh right your still claiming its PvD, when it never was thats cool though.

Zahdane.4029:

They could easily save it if we got the equivalent of Realm Ranks from DAoC.
Extra abilities based on how many people you kill basically.

How does that solve anything? The people who get in a legitimate war during some hours of WvW get some small statistical benefit, and this is supposed to help them.. stop the nightcappers? In what way? Because the nightcappers, who haven’t really fought as many people, won’t have those benefits? That assumes the nightcappers aren’t murdering people dumb enough to try and break out of spawn, getting their own Ranks. That assumes the people who play during primetime to get those Realm Ranks are going to be fighting the nightcappers, too. That assumes the power of the Ranks is enough to allow 20 Red to beat 40 Green.

DAoC’s whole system was different, even before you get into the idea of Realm Ranks.
The (not-entirely-based-on-fun) “point” of competing in RvR—the buffs—were granted on an at-the-moment basis for holding territory, much like Orbs. GW2 distributes the global buffs as a byproduct of score; you can’t lose your 12% Gathering buff even if you get wiped off the map.

RvR but you in contention against other members of your server. Your own community. You’d see the same guys week after week on the enemy side, and you’d come to know the guilds, and if people really wanted a fair shake they’d play other-realm characters. Then, the whole balance of RvR often shifted based on the buffing of various classes. Classes were Realm-specific, so it was possible that Midgard was just “better” than Albion, mechanically, this month or that month.

GW2 takes the approach that everything should be fair. We’ve all got access to the same classes and everything. To ensure even match-ups, they use a modified Glicko system to rate servers and pit them against other servers that should be on an equal level of play. Where this falls flat is that Glicko systems work based off skill. If you want to extrapolate “skill” to a server-level, let’s say we’re talking about overall coordination and tactics—the strength of one zergling or Marine out of a ball of 50 isn’t necessarily important, it’s how the player macros and micros them around the map, when they complete upgrades, how much they know about the state of the enemy’s side of the map, how well they can defend and attack certain points. But the current point scoring system gets thrown incredibly out of whack by timezone, and it doesn’t even consider time of day a factor. It’s blind to when you go to sleep or how many people are playing at 6am in some part of the world.

What happens then? Well, you can get servers which have really crap coordination and tactics overall—low skill—in high brackets. They’ll lose a majority of even (with regard to numbers) fights, but make up all the points and then some in 10 hours when their off-peak playerbase wakes up and sweeps the map. “But,” you might begin to argue, erroneously, “is that not an indication of the off-peak players’ superiour coordination and tactics?” No, silly-billy, because if they needed organization and tactics, it would be to overcome a numerically equal force. What happens in practice on most servers is that 40 off-peak players run around and find a bunch of empty towers and keeps, and the ten enemies on the map say “screw this, I’m out,” and everything falls without being contested.. because it’s not actually contestable.

So now you’ve got a bunch of people filling the queues at primetime absolutely getting their faces pushed in the entire time they’re playing because they’re outmatched in tactics and coordination, so that’s no fun for them.. another server that’s just wiping the floor with everyone and wondering when they’ll face an actual challenge.. and going back to the first server, a bunch of Australians or French-Canadians who wonder when they’ll ever find someone to fight other than Keep Lords and NPCs.

Namu.5712:

Sky.9347:

Namu.5712:

Sky.9347:

Binafus.8153:

@ Ped

I’m not giving you numbers I’m giving you an actual case of it last week ET and SBI vs HOD they were winning after four days.

They were mainly focusing on HOD but were still fighting each other some, if they would have divided all four maps in half and not gave up I feel they would have put HOD in third for the week and think most of SBI and ET players can see this.

I tossed out four solutions that would help.

I want some good competition.

I’m not upset with you Binafus, but you still aren’t seeing things clearly.

ET and SBI both focused on HoD, that’s true. HoD was losing by the end of the weekend, that’s true too.

Tuesday @ prime time, HoD had completely 100% reversed this 3 days of LOSING and were now WINNING.

Do you understand that? Three full days of losing in points, and then the next day they are winning. And you’re saying they should have just kept doing it? One single night Binafus. ONE NIGHT changed HoD from 3rd place to 1st.

2v1 doesn’t make a difference, after the FIRST full night-cap.
This is a problem, because it decimates the W3 participation rates.

That would be a problem if there was no one else playing, but as a NA player that helped that night there was plenty of ET/SBI out defending they just got out played and lost ground that their teammates gained them. It was pretty equal actually.

Thats the part your not getting.

Its true that other servers literally have no one on at night but its been proven time and time again that the top servers have people at night. They just aren’t queing up for WvW, and the people in WvW aren’t that good at night, lack coordination and leaders, whereas HoD has that coordination and leaders even at night.

Btw HoD always has instant ques at night during the week, and maybe a 5-10 minute que during the weekend. Only during primetime is the que horrible.

This debate that deals with HoD/SBI/JQ/ET is all he said she said.

Right, I see.

The entire weekend HoD was a distant last place, but once our “equally sized” night forces came on, HoD was simply so much better than both ET and SBI combined that they completely wiped them off of all 4 maps.

I see now. Totally a player skill issue. Makes perfect sense.

I like how you side stepped what I pointed out which is completely correct and chose to play the ya your right but im not gonna admit it card and instead comment on something totally irrelevant in my reply to you.

No ques on any of the 3 servers, all 3 were at high… yet we are the bad guys because we took everything in one go… clearly your server wasn’t empty so whats the reason you lost all that ground? Oh right your still claiming its PvD, when it never was thats cool though.

Don’t put words in my mouth.

I never said you were bad guys. I never said it was PvD. Those things are not part of my argument, and never have been. Don’t confuse me with random forum trolls.

A) Server Population =/= WvW Population
I agree, but there is no way for me as a player to fix this. People want to play less and less often, because of the way the game goes. This is why I am here discussing it.

B) WvW maps are probably never completely empty
I agree, but it is lopsided enough to create a MASSIVE imbalance.

Listen, it seems you are here arguing the very fact that night capping happens. We are all here talking about possible solutions that don’t screw up the game, or cause winners to lose… and you show up saying that there never was a population mismatch, our night time players are just clearly so awful compared to yours – and that’s the reason your server wipes the maps (or nearly does) every single night.

I disagree with your very premise. Most people do. There is data that disagrees with you, too.

If your point is simply that the servers are full and thus it is our jobs as players to motivate other players (who are not on when we are on, usually) to go play WvW – then I am afraid we will simply never agree.

ANet needs to make the game fun and interesting. It is not MY job to convince people it is fun and interesting. That is not a player problem, it is a game problem.

@Binafus “I want some good competition.”

Good luck on that

Matt Witter.6982:

How we’ve came to this conclusion is that no player’s time is more valuable than another. Players should not be punished or unable to experience and view the same content as everyone else because they play at a different time. They too are paying customers.

times are based on server time, peak times are based on when the queue times are highest, off-peak times are based on borderlands being largely empty on most servers

Observations

• Night time players are playing during off-peak times
• During off-peak times, most borderlands have very little players in them
• Night time players face less opposition than daytime players
• Night time players are congregating on the same servers so they have more people to play with
• Objectives that are captured by night time players are typically held until the peak time
• Problem 3: Since night time players face little to no opposition from other servers, they can capture objectives with a very small resource investment
• Problem 2: Peak time covers a very small portion of the day compared to off-peak time
• Problem 3: This problem is exponentially increased by upgrades. If a group of night time players upgrades every location on the map, then the peak time hits and all 3 servers have the same amount of people on the map, the server with night time player has a huge advantage because they’re starting the peak time hours with upgraded objectives, while servers without night time players start peak time with absolutely nothing, and have to spend a large portion of the peak time simply taking their share of the map.

Conclusions

• Night time players are given an exponentially increased reward for their time spent in WvW
• This reward is a compound of problems 1, 2, and 3
• Servers without a night time group always face a disadvantage during peak time even if number of players on all 3 servers are equal due to problem 3
• A single night time group is far more valued than several peak-time groups, because they obtain far more points for a server with a far smaller resource investment

Suggestions

• Balance the rewards for having night time groups to match the relative resources that have to be spent to gain the same amount of points
• Balance the advantages off-peak players have for covering a much larger portion of the day, by increasing the time between points being awarded to at least 30 minutes, possibly reduce the time between points being awarded during peak time to 5 minutes
• Balance the advantages night time players have for facing minimal opposition from other servers, by adding some form of purchasable automated objective defenses that only become active once the server population of the server that purchased these defenses drops below a certain threshold, maybe the same threshold as the outmanned buff
• Balance the advantage of servers with night time players starting the peak time hours each day with upgraded objectives by increasing the time and resources it takes to upgrade objectives during hours when one server vastly outnumbers the other two servers

I hope this helps bring equality to WvW. Each players time should be as valuable as any other players time, right now WvW favors some players time over others, but these suggestions would go a long way to balancing it.

Reading the thread I’ve noticed most suggestions severely hurt night time players and people playing cross region. The adjustments I suggested wouldn’t hurt the playability for these players at all.

Dutch Lion.1039:

@ Konrad Curze

Your “solution” would be very bad for the game. Why should players be punished for playing on a different continent when they have been able to do so for years in every other MMO? I play on the US servers for a good reason and if I would be forced to play elsewhere I would quit playing the game completely. I am not going to play this game all by myself, thank you. I happen to have many American friends. Or how about expats living in Europe? Should they be forced to play in Europe and not on the American servers with their friends? Merging the American and EU servers isn’t an option either because in all honesty I think EU servers in MMOs have become so common because the European Union requires companies to operate in the EU if they even want to do business in the EU.

Creating new Asian/SEA region servers solves nothing. You will now have players in every region who don’t have 9 till 5 jobs who now have even less people to play with and against in WvW at the time they can play.

I have noticed that many of the solutions in this thread punish the players who simply don’t play during prime time. Other solutions lead to the player base telling you to log out of WvW because you are affecting the score negatively (when you have more players than the other server).

and here, I absolutly disagree with you

you make it sound like there are tons of people that work on night shifts and they would be “punished” if servers were region locked.

first, the amont of people who can only play at nights is minimal. anecdotic at best, this game is mostly played by students or your everyday Joe who yes, he has a 9 to 5 job and maybe a family, and can usually devote a few hours from 8 to 12 or something like that.
if you are from a country where the majority of people have night jobs, I’d love to know which one is it. sounds like a country of vampires…

second, you can still play the game, it just wont be as packed full as if you played…but hey, thats your proof that people like you are such a minority, that we cannot let them affect gameplay to a point where it stops being fun for the VAST, VAST, VAST, VAAAAAAAAAAST majority of people.

what I find funny is how people defending the current system always pull the same 2 arguments:

1) but I have across the ocean friends!
2) OMG Think of the night shifters!

and usually they fall in neither. they dont work in shifts, they dont have friends from other regions, or dont care enough about their so called “friends” to go thru an annoyance just to keep playing with them….hence, they werent real “friends”

they just want to have easy wins for their own benefit and to stroke some ego.

dont get me wrong, I feel sorry for the “real” night shifters, but missing on a game is just one among the myriad other things that are unfair for them due to their real life work. I bet it sucks for them, but we cannot keep a system that is blatantly unfair for 99,9% of the population just due to a 0,1%.

and yes, dont try to act all offended
the 99,9 – 0,1 numbers are probably accurate

how ANet devs have let this crap last so long is beyond nuts. its like taking a course in “bad business practices 101”, pissing off the majority of your customers to cater to a tiny, tiny minority.

I really don`t see how would anyone suffer (“people that play during night” in particular) if they would tie the points to the current population in zones.

This system would be running 24/7, yes it would “turn on” mostly during nights when some servers have huge number advantage over other servers, but then points would actually mean something and would actually represent best WvW servers. At this moment points only show which servers have the biggest night time numbers. And yes again; For US it is HOD with large amount of Australian guilds and in EU Vizunah Square with large amount of Canadian guilds.

But whatever makes ArenaNet happy, every person I have talked to dislikes the current system and there is only handfull of people defending it (mostly from servers that are winning due to infamous nightcapping). In a long run this will pretty much kill WvW on 90% of the servers leaving only top few active (which will manage to stay active due to constant influx of people moving from their dying WvW servers).

I really sometimes wonder what the hell was ArenaNet thinking since this was so blatantly obvious ages before the game even came out that it really hurts.

Veles.5289:

I really don`t see how would anyone suffer (“people that play during night” in particular) if they would tie the points to the current population in zones.

This system would be running 24/7, yes it would “turn on” mostly during nights when some servers have huge number advantage over other servers, but then points would actually mean something and would actually represent best WvW servers. At this moment points only show which servers have the biggest night time numbers. And yes again; For US it is HOD with large amount of Australian guilds and in EU Vizunah Square with large amount of Canadian guilds.

But whatever makes ArenaNet happy, every person I have talked to dislikes the current system and there is only handfull of people defending it (mostly from servers that are winning due to infamous nightcapping). In a long run this will pretty much kill WvW on 90% of the servers leaving only top few active (which will manage to stay active due to constant influx of people moving from their dying WvW servers).

I really sometimes wonder what the hell was ArenaNet thinking since this was so blatantly obvious ages before the game even came out that it really hurts.

This is probably the simplest solution and easiest to implement. As we’ve seen ArenaNet has access to a LOT of metrics to figure out when a lot of people are playing and when people aren’t. Having points come in more often during peak times and less often during times when the majority servers have less than 20 people on the map would be a great improvement. Points for things like dolyaks and sentries would have to scale as well.

I really have to ask myself how old a lot of the ‘night-capping-is-the-devil’ crowd here are. I have read many (not all) of the reasoned (QQ) arguments for why night-capping is bad, and how it affects my game and that the detestable night-cappers should be treated differently because its not fair to me.

I ask myself how old these people are, because they remind me so much of my children crying about how a game is not fair and that because ‘johny’ over there can run faster than us, the rules need to change so that I get a better chance of ‘winning’.

By all mean’s lets adjust the score johnny gets when he comes first (as we know he will, cause he’s the fastest) so that its more of a competition. Oh, and now that we’ve done that, it turns out he’s smarter than us too! and figures out quicker ways to get from A to B, so we should adjust the scores a bit more to take that into account. And you know, hes older than us too, and that should count against him for some arcane reason I haven’t quite justified (but will) yet.

Most kids grow out of this (and aren’t that ridiculous in the first place). They figure out, that the rules are the rules, and that there are ways to combat johnny’s strengths and improve their own.

People seem to think, that because they have paid for GW2 and play, that it should work best for them first and foremost. Guess what! there are simple solutions to the problems you are facing in WvWvW. Some people have figured them out already!

1) Get players from other timezones to play on your server
2) what!! Move to another server that has those timezones covered
3) no way!! Go to bed early, and get up very early to play for a few hours before work/school
4) /rquit /qq

I don’t see the people who are complaining about the unfairness of WvW complaining that non local-server players have worse ping times than they do, or suffer from more lag. I don’t hear them complaining that some players live in countries who’s infrastructure doesn’t facilitate fast, reliable internet connectivity.

Maybe what we need to do, is normalise ping times, so local-server players get their ping times increased to say, an arbitary 500ms, have some lag thrown in randomly and we disconnect them every now and again (preferably in the middle of combat).

The system is self-balancing, in that ANet expect players to be intelligent enough to figure out that they can solve many of these problems themselves.

Guild Wars Fan.3249:

I really have to ask myself how old a lot of the ‘night-capping-is-the-devil’ crowd here are. I have read many (not all) of the reasoned (QQ) arguments for why night-capping is bad, and how it affects my game and that the detestable night-cappers should be treated differently because its not fair to me.

I ask myself how old these people are, because they remind me so much of my children crying about how a game is not fair and that because ‘johny’ over there can run faster than us, the rules need to change so that I get a better chance of ‘winning’.

By all mean’s lets adjust the score johnny gets when he comes first (as we know he will, cause he’s the fastest) so that its more of a competition. Oh, and now that we’ve done that, it turns out he’s smarter than us too! and figures out quicker ways to get from A to B, so we should adjust the scores a bit more to take that into account. And you know, hes older than us too, and that should count against him for some arcane reason I haven’t quite justified (but will) yet.

Most kids grow out of this (and aren’t that ridiculous in the first place). They figure out, that the rules are the rules, and that there are ways to combat johnny’s strengths and improve their own.

People seem to think, that because they have paid for GW2 and play, that it should work best for them first and foremost. Guess what! there are simple solutions to the problems you are facing in WvWvW. Some people have figured them out already!

1) Get players from other timezones to play on your server
2) what!! Move to another server that has those timezones covered
3) no way!! Go to bed early, and get up very early to play for a few hours before work/school
4) /rquit /qq

I don’t see the people who are complaining about the unfairness of WvW complaining that non local-server players have worse ping times than they do, or suffer from more lag. I don’t hear them complaining that some players live in countries who’s infrastructure doesn’t facilitate fast, reliable internet connectivity.

Maybe what we need to do, is normalise ping times, so local-server players get their ping times increased to say, an arbitary 500ms, have some lag thrown in randomly and we disconnect them every now and again (preferably in the middle of combat).

The system is self-balancing, in that ANet expect players to be intelligent enough to figure out that they can solve many of these problems themselves.

What does the night capping problem have to do with arbitrary “fairness”? Right now there are a lot of people who want the WvW scores to be a representation of how well their server performs, your whole post scream that you think WvW scores should only represent how many people a server has during off-peak hours. But you completely failed to back this up with any reason why your scoring system makes more sense than the various other proposed scoring systems. The only thing you’ve done is told people to ignore the problem or become a part of it, which doesn’t make the game better for anyone.

I agree, I’m not interested in fixing the scoring. At no point did I indicate that I was attempting to ‘fix’ scoring. I merely pointed out (somewhat indelicately), that there is nothing wrong with WvW and that the people who are complaining of night-capping are being ridiculous.

It aint broke.

Some people just need to harden up.

I’m a ‘night-capper’ myself. There are always people defending. Often not enough tho.

I come back in the morning, and most of our gains have been lost. Do I blame this on ANet? No. Do I blame it on the Australians/Kiwis? No. Do I blame it on the NA population? No.

It is what it is. I know how to fix it and what I need to do to fix it. Does it matter to me so much that I will change server to fix the problem? Not at the moment, but maybe.

Guild Wars Fan.3249:

I agree, I’m not interested in fixing the scoring. At no point did I indicate that I was attempting to ‘fix’ scoring. I merely pointed out, that there is nothing wrong with WvW and that the people who are complaining of night-capping are being ridiculous.

It aint broke.

Some people just need to harden up.

I’m a ‘night-capper’ myself. There are always people defending. Not often enough tho.

I come back in the morning, and most of our gains have been lost. Do I blame this on ANet? No. Do I blame it on the Australians/Kiwis? No. Do I blame it on the NA population? No.

It is what it is. I know how to fix it and what I need to do to fix it. Does it matter to me so much that I will change server to fix the problem? Not at the moment, but maybe.

I gathered that you aren’t interested in changing the scoring system, but you’ve yet to give any kind of reason for having a scoring system that doesn’t representing anything in WvW aside from who has more people online when other servers are nearly empty rather than having a scoring system that represents how well a server is performing.

Without backing up your opinion with a reason or argument, you’re not really adding anything to the conversation.

Guild Wars Fan.3249:

I agree, I’m not interested in fixing the scoring. At no point did I indicate that I was attempting to ‘fix’ scoring. I merely pointed out (somewhat indelicately), that there is nothing wrong with WvW and that the people who are complaining of night-capping are being ridiculous.

It aint broke.

Some people just need to harden up.

I’m a ‘night-capper’ myself. There are always people defending. Often not enough tho.

I come back in the morning, and most of our gains have been lost. Do I blame this on ANet? No. Do I blame it on the Australians/Kiwis? No. Do I blame it on the NA population? No.

It is what it is. I know how to fix it and what I need to do to fix it. Does it matter to me so much that I will change server to fix the problem? Not at the moment, but maybe.

You must be on one of those servers that have night cappers.

If you can’t even agree that a system that decides how much things are worth based on population ratios across the map, than you’re just full of it. That is the fairest system we can have.

As it stands WvW isn’t a test of skill, or tactics. It is a test of who has the most people capable of being awake while the majority is asleep.

heh, I completely agree that the scoring system is biased towards the servers with unequal population ratios.

I just don’t see how that is a problem, when you know how to fix it. What I see is the problem, is that you want to have your cake, and eat it too. You want to be able to stay on the server you like (and your friends are on), no issue there what-so-ever. But you also know that the only current solution to the problem, it to move servers or have a reasonable night population, which you are not willing/able to do.

In life, you make sacrifices for the things you want. You eat smaller quantities so you don’t put on weight. You go to work so you can earn money to pay your bills.

You do these things, because they give you something in return and you make sacrifices to do them. You don’t expect to be paid for going to the gym. You don’t expect to be paid for sleeping. But you are expecting to be rewarded because you won’t do what you need to do, to get server balance.

There’s nothing complicated going on here. Its that simple.

Guild Wars Fan.3249:

heh, I completely agree that the scoring system is biased towards the servers with unequal population ratios.

I just don’t see how that is a problem, when you know how to fix it. What I see is the problem, is that you want to have your cake, and eat it too. You want to be able to stay on the server you like (and your friends are on), no issue there what-so-ever. But you also know that the only current solution to the problem, it to move servers or have a reasonable night population, which you are not willing/able to do.

In life, you make sacrifices for the things you want. You eat smaller quantities so you don’t put on weight. You go to work so you can earn money to pay your bills.

You do these things, because they give you something in return and you make sacrifices to do them. You don’t expect to be paid for going to the gym. You don’t expect to be paid for sleeping. But you are expecting to be rewarded because you won’t do what you need to do, to get server balance.

There’s nothing complicated going on here. Its that simple.

Me going to one of the already overpopulated servers with a night presence isn’t going to fix anything.

Thats right. You (and other people) going to an underpopulated server with a night presence and not enough day presence will. Assuming of course the high-night-pop server players ALSO move around a bit to lower night-pop servers.

Guild Wars Fan:

You’re correct in thinking that this problem could solve itself.

If only 30-40% of the population would immediately change their behavior pattern with no new stimuli.

Alas, this is not happening. You admit the scoring system is biased, but for some reason you think we as individuals can do something to fix it. In theory yes, we can. In reality no, we can not.

This is a systemic problem. This isn’t one or two servers, this is literally EVERY SINGLE SERVER except one in each ladder.

Ignore this problem and humans will continue being human, resulting in one active WvW server per ladder and a bunch of ghost towns.

Address this problem in a way that does not change the inherit unfairness of the game and you might lose a couple players who can not stand their win advantage being taken away.

If our primary purpose is the future health of the game (and not the insulting accusations you and your kind keep throwing around to deflect attention), then you must understand how the current situation is not good.

Scale the points awarded every 15 minutes based on number of active players during those 15 minutes.

Make undermanned scale appropriately too, if you want.

Sure, start with some base so it’s not wonky. Make the math work right and weight it as needed. But 200 players per side should be more meaningful than 20 per side.

JohnCataldo.9201:

Scale the points awarded every 15 minutes based on number of active players during those 15 minutes.

Make undermanned scale appropriately too, if you want.

Sure, start with some base so it’s not wonky. Make the math work right and weight it as needed. But 200 players per side should be more meaningful than 20 per side.

I support this idea. ANet can figure the numbers better than any of us can, and your last statement is the idea I think we are all trying to express.

JohnCataldo.9201:

200 players per side should be more meaningful than 20 per side.

A zerg is far less skillful than a small tactical team.

heheh…I love that one “(and not the insulting accusations you and your kind keep throwing around to deflect attention)”…hypocritical much???

you do raise a good point tho and I do agree that expecting all players to alter their behaviour in the best interest of the community is not likely to happen!

With a view to saving the WvW aspect of GW2, I fail to see how repeated posts saying (basically) the same thing is helping the situation. Not everyone is whining, and moaning about the same thing, so perhaps I could have been a little less aggressive

One of my primary concerns with adjusting scoring based on point-in-time population is that it is inherently flawed and demeaning.

Flawed, in that if there are 50 players standing around chatting (or posing for guild photos!…you know who you are!), while another 100 are actively participating in WvW, then that server is theoretically being disadvantaged because the server(s) they are competing with will be receiving a disproportionate score bonus. The active players are having their efforts demeaned as a result.

In truth, this may or may not be an issue (especially if the other servers are having the same issue – tho, with a night-capping server, this is more likely as it is in fact daytime for them and therefore they are more likely to have excess players loitering about).

While I agree that it has its merits, I dont agree with it in principal, as it has an immoral smell to it, in that we would be punishing players who don’t play in server-local time as they would be the ones this applies to most commonly. I say punishing, because the suggestion is to effectively reduce the scores while they are playing, simply because the other servers were unable to field an adequate team.

In fact, I don’t see how this would solve the problem. For example, lets say we take 3 realms:

Realm A: has a strong server-day-time presence and a weak night-time presence.
Realm B: strong day-time, a reasonable night-time presence.
Realm C: weak day-time and strong night-time.

For the purposes of simplicity, assume greater numbers = stronger i.e. all players are equal.

During the day:
RealmA and RealmB have their scores adjusted downwards because RealmC is weak.

At night:
RealmC and RealmB have their scores adjusted due to RealmA being weak.

So, basically, realmB gets the big nerf hammer because the other Realms are unable to field decent teams throughout the day.i Will RealmB still win? Yes.

Does this solve the problem of RealmB night-capping a number of RealmA’s stuff at night and defending it against them the next day? And likewise to RealmC during the day? Nope.

RealmC and RealmA find themselves swapping positions for a week.

hmm JohnCataldo.9201:

‘Sure, start with some base so it’s not wonky. Make the math work right and weight it as needed. But 200 players per side should be more meaningful than 20 per side.’

I fail to see how 200 vs 200 vs 200 is more meaningful than 20 vs 20 vs 20.

In each case, the players in question are putting in the same amount of effort. No one is being disadvantaged. Keep / Supply swapping is just a lot slower

What about using AI that runs the map when noone is on it and places itself according to how the opposing teams are coordinating themselves.

Example:
Two full servers 1 half full server.

300 players v 300 players v 150 players 150 bots

Bots would be placed only defensive, and “populate” keeps, towers and supplyposts according to how the opposing teams are scattered across the map. So if team 1 and 2 are both in the west side of the map with a team 3 keep there, most bots will be defending that keep.

(they should be able to use siege equipments when possible. maybe.)

Meeehhhh I dunno, It sounds liek a completely crazy idea really. :P

With the current state of how WvW works, even adjusting scoring to compensate for population differences between warring side does not resolve the bigger problem.

A bigger problem is that 100 vs 20 is not fun for either side from a purely battle standpoint. The only ones enjoying it are those on the over populated side exploiting the system for easy gold, karma, and server benefits. A player on the side with pop 20 could easily go broke from playing.

I’d argue that PVE gold and karma needs to be completely removed from WvW. WvW equipment damage should be removed as well. As soon as the ability to line the coffers of the players is taken away, more people will look for fixing WvW to lead towards more interesting battles.

A big problem is that anet is advertizing wvw as an alternate PVE mode for leveling characters and acquiring gold/karma. At the same time, this is suppose to accommodate end-game pvp mode for other players.

Very disappointed in the few posters who repeatedly post/spam their selfishness and ego infused views to this thread.

Guild Wars Fan.3249:

It aint broke.

Some people just need to harden up.

Yes there is no problem on WvW. We all here in this forum and sharing our happiness or passion about it. Talking about our awesome experience and patting each others back, or bragging how we fight better than another server, how we beat them with our superior tactics / maneuvers / strategy, how we beat them with our skill. It happened on 24 hour matches. It happened for the 1st of weekly matches. But now everyone realized what’s going on, how pointless all those efforts on communication / organization / skill / tactics / maneuvers etc.. At the end whoever covers 7/24 better wins whether by not sleeping or bringing men from different time zones. And thanks to Select Region it’s not easy to cover 7/24. There is only 1 server that can do that properly on NA and 1 server on EU.

This is my last post in this thread and most probably I’ll not come back and check it anymore. I believe we expressed our problems enough, and we expressed “As players why we couldn’t solve those problems by ourselves? And why we won’t be able to solve it in future?”. It’s up to devs to take this seriously or not. It’s up to us to take this game seriously or not.

If that’s the Travian style alarm-clock competition ANet wanted to create on WvW it’s their choice. Though if that’s the case perhaps they shouldn’t have invested so much time and money on details of WvW as it doesn’t mean much right now. Me and my guild enjoy the fights, but we no more have the motivation to improve on it, as it doesn’t matter. We’re just participating for lolz

Most probably we won’t stay for long, as there are many other games with better Mass PvP mechanics out there, in which our participation would bring a change at the outcome. EU ranking competition is already dead. You can’t see much talking about what to do next week to get higher.

Pity WvW combat by itself is pretty fun. But ours is not a casual guild. And I expressed a few times it’s not possible for us to move to a 7/24 server to stay competitive because:

1. Our community doesn’t want to move to an NA server.
2. NA guilds don’t want to join EU servers.
3. We don’t know how to speak French.

WvW is the reason why we brought our community to this game, so sPvP, Dungeons or any other aspect of the game is not a substitute for that.

And BTW I’m 33 years old not a crying child. I’m a grown up trying to protect interests of the community I represent.

Would it be possible to have servers across region boundaries participate on the same WvW team?

For instance an EU server could be paired with an NA server. They’re completely separate servers for PvE, but when they WvW they end up on the same side, facing two other NA/EU server alliances.

There might be some issue with language barriers and coordination across multiple servers, but it would hopefully allow better 24/7 coverage for each server without having to change the scoring or queuing rules.

Barring that, I think dynamic queue sizes that factor in current participation from all 3 servers would be the best first step to dealing with this issue. Hopefully encourage the off peak population to spread out a bit.

Everyone moving to a single server isn’t a solution, moving to a server with a high night population and low day population isn’t an option, look at the graphs posted by arenanet. All the servers with a good night time population are bursting during the day because alliances made sure to get as many late night guilds to get on the server as possible. There is no mythical server with amazing night time population and nobody during the day.

Here is a 2v1 strategy that might work against “night-capping” servers. I’m not convinced anything less will work. It has been proven that as long as both servers that teamed up wanted to preserve the chance to win, it mathematically will not work. So, one server should give up right from the start (the sacrifice), and let the teammate collects all the points (the winner), and both cooperate against the other server (the enemy). This means, the sacrifice should not defend any of their structures at the start against the winner.

The winner should quickly capture all of sacrifice’s structure once the match begins. All of sacrifice’s people should just roam as a gank group (killing any enemy team’s player or dolyaks) or defending the winner’s structure. The winner should focus on capturing all structures as soon as possible. Once map control has been established, both teams will spawn camp the enemy (should have enough people to camp all exits). This should be maintained throughout the weekend (say, for 60hrs). This assumes that people will have significantly more people on during the weekends.
So the score from those 60 hours will be:
Enemy: 0
Winner: 166.8k
Sacrifice: 0

After that, for the remaining 108 hrs, the 2 combined server will need to maintain on average 155 points. Assuming a full night cap of +695 points for 12 hours every day, the two teams together would need to cap back 310 points for the remaining 12 hours. This will barely result in victory, with final score of:
Enemy: 233.3k
Winner: 233.8k
Sacrifice: 0

So, with this kind of extreme setup, a 2v1 will barely work. A normal 2v1, with a presumed break in the alliance near the end of the match, just has no chance at all.

Veles.5289:

Binafus.8153:

@ Veles – yes HOD did recruit guilds so we would have a 24 hour coverage. I find it hard to believe we were the only ones that thought hey this is a 24 hour war for 14 days in order to win we need people that can fight around the clock.

Our numbers have grown greatly since the start though, by winning more people keep coming to our server.

I have never once acted like I was not from HOD, I want some good competition.

I offer up ways to fix the problem not just argue.

NO transfers to the top 20 percent.

Combine the EU and NA ladders, more servers will end up with 24 hour coverage.

It is a three way match the bottom two should tag team the top one, this is the players fault if they are not currently doing this.

Give the bottom 20 percent servers a Gold/Karma/Exp buff.

If you do not want a 24 hour war then WvWvW is not for you.

My guild was offered to join TA, which would put us on HOD, my answer was: I would never join US server so I can PvKeeps like a scrub, when all good fighting is happening during US prime time.

I still stand by that and if more people were actually willing to PVP more then cap empty objectives we would not have this conversation.

Ohhh and by the way, you are still missing the main point of my initial post… Unbelivable.

Look if we focused more on the PvP And not capping points then you would be doing it wrong anyway. PvP in 90% of MMO’S as well as this one is not about killing the players but doing the objective and in WvW the objective is capping keeps towers and supply camps. If people were to start going after players and thats there main focus then me and like 2 or 3 friends could win the match for our server. which then would be more tears all over the forums which puts us right back at start.

Solution: Just cap upgrades to a minimum during night time.

No one gets the shorter end of the stick.

Another idea to fix the point system is giving points per kill your server gets on the enemy.

for example: We are fighting vabbi ad Ring of Fire atm ( as Piken sqaure ) Ring Of Fire Pve alot, vabbi tries but ends atm roaming around hunting for players. , we as piken square, take keeps, and then you have like on every server the brainless zergs failing. in the end its all about who caps most keeps , towers, … all about Pve it makes the zerg even usefull for one thing and thats a bad thing to say.

Why not add a score for killing players in WvW for example 1/2 points per player that your server kills ( thats finishing off ) that way you make people that want to PvP usefull , and you even keep the zergs usefull sadly enough -_-

Also a defence that got repeld should give points to the total score. Atm some people just let keeps getting taken so they can cap it again -_-

(posted some time ago)
since capping a lot with a big zerg is one of the most effective ways to farm in wvw atm
the zerging side keeps getting more ppl,while the other sides keep losing em
in the night this gets even worse,so most of the server rating points come from nightraids

PossibleFix:
A. Rewards are scaled
-empty towers/keeps give low reward → long big fights give amazing rewards
-with only few enemys on map very low reward → with lots of em,lots of reward
B. Tower/Keep Scaling
-siege weapons scale with world ratio on map
-on big underdog npcs will spawn to defend keep,rep door,use cannons etc(they only use what players would use,but due the lack of brain they have more hp,do more dmg)
C. Relics
-relics atm buff only the strongest sides,change bonus to only exp/karma/money bonus

So they current trend to join the biggest zerg would be broken,in order to get more rewards the map with the lowest population from your world will be best(there where wour world needs you the most;)). Even beeing on a low pop world can bee a big advantage. So if ppl trend to get to the lowest spot(in pop) they will distribute more equal(like water^^)

Reward Scaling and receiving:
Since the events scale very poor atm and you miss a lot lootbags in a active fight:
-no more loot drops from players/guards etc
-no more event rewards
-all players have stat tracking show in the wvw window(kills/captures/repairs etc in the last hour)
-every 15min(when the world gets points) you get rewards based on your performance(scaled by map avg ratio like written above)
-the rewards can be claimed like items you get in trading post(only in wvw window here),so you go to the wvw tap and claim your karma/exp/money/drops for your char there(here you will get the removed loot from players/guards etc)

WvW should give the most fun/rewards with lots of enemys

I’m an Australian on Yak’s Bend.

Last week, Blackgate beat the kitten out of us with their superior presence.
This week, Maguuma is fighting more effectively than us (during Australian hours) and we’re coming second.

I continue to assert that once the rankings have had time to put equivalent servers up against each other, a fair and challenging competition will be had by all. (IE, I support nightcapping, even though I’m not winning because there are people out there who nightcap better than I do.)

I continue to assert that once the rankings have had time to put equivalent servers up against each other, a fair and challenging competition will be had by all. (IE, I support nightcapping, even though I’m not winning because there are people out there who nightcap better than I do.)

This is really the only “true” fix, and it will only come with time. It will (or should) be a simple case of matching servers with other servers that have the most similar 24hr traffic patterns.

Unfortunately, that’s going to take some time to do a reliable analysis of that traffic, since so many WvW players are server hopping at the moment.

The whole “it ain’t broke” stance is really a joke, however. If you are fighting a “battle” with virtually no opponents, regardless of the time of day/night, of course it’s broke. Despite the “non-interference” public face ANet have put on the issue, I doubt they ever intended there to be battles with virtually zero resistance (how is that even fun, btw?)

Having said that – it will be interesting to see how these servers who are building themselves a 24hr fighting force (good for you, btw) will fare once they are truly evenly matched against servers with identical traffic/population patterns. Will their players stick around, or are the majority of them there simply because it’s “easy pickins”?

Time will tell.

I honestly feel like it’s something that ANet wants the players to police themselves. And if we did do it ourselves, we’d be better for it.

Hello,

my point of view as a French playing on FR servers:

- Mixing NA and EU ladder is a bad idea: Regional servers (DE, ES, FR) would be crushed by “International/US” ones, since they are only on 1 timezone.

- The timezones issue will always be : even if there were only International english speaking servers, the different foreign communities would tend to regroup.
So, we know that timezone issue is what’s causing the problem, and can’t be fixed.
But ANet can act on the consequence of this : the population differential.

-> By giving advantages based on the current wvwvw pop for example, or putting an handicap for the overpopulated side.
And that’ll be the difficult part: balancing this so it remains fair to each server, and so that everyone (including people that work night shift or play overseas) can play a part like the other players.

ArenaNET and Matt,

If this the best you can say…..

Night Capping is a huge issue and if you wanna see a healthly WvW, you should start fixing this right now cos is not working at all and all we know this. Scoring is far to be fair with the current system and it just creates bad feelings cos is quite stupid.

Scoring, orbs and rewards needs a fix, an urgent fix and i really hope you have working hard on it right now. Competitive WvW is not about night camping or things like those to get advantage during the week, just should be about good tactics and skilled players.