Guild Wars 2

If there are servers with dominant WvW groups they’ll end up matched against similar servers. In general I’m against close to limitless potential to be “better” than the other people by putting in more time and effort but in this case there isn’t much to gain by such “hardcore” play.

In general I feel like there should be a flexible cap on the number of people from a server in a map even if the opposing servers’ players aren’t in. For example 1:1:1 in Eternal battlegrounds and 6:2:2 advantage for the home server in the borderlands. Other than that it’s ok to attack during the off hours, it’s part of the WvW concept. Just look at most browser based strategy games.

>mfw having the time of my life in wvw.

Here is a solution:

Have US servers and EU servers fight in teamed match-ups

So that it would be like

Ferguson’s Crossing (US) + Fissure of Woe (EU) vs.
Borlis Pass (US) + Blacktide (EU) vs.
another US server + EU server

This should mainly eliminate nigh capping, because EU and US have different peak times. Obviously, this will not work with the mega servers that have constant hour long queues to WvW like HoD…but for most of the servers, I think it would actually work, and hopefully make WvW a more interesting experience.

Zero.8590 agree with u.

I made the same topic a few days ago, the moderator is going to tell you to put your thoughts in the stickied topic, which really means, no one will actually read your good ideas anymore. Thanks Arenanet.

Yes, nightcapping is unfair.

war isnt fair, balanced or should they be. Night cappers dont complain about day cappers. so stop kittening about them.

raenen.5807:

war isnt fair, balanced or should they be. Night cappers dont complain about day cappers. so stop kittening about them.

Does it make the game any more fun when you can go capping unopposed?

I’m not saying that nightcappers are ‘wrong’ in what they do, because that is absurd, but its Arenanet’s stubbornness to approach it as an issue.

Even if they fix the scoring. Even if the ‘point’ of nightcapping is diminished (which won’t happen mind you, because apparently everyone’s time is equally precious) there still remains the problem that, fighting unopposed is not fun.

You cant fix this without screwing someone. If you nerf capping then anyone that plays nights cant enjoy WvW. If you dont do anything then people will continue to complain.

raenen.5807:

You cant fix this without screwing someone. If you nerf capping then anyone that plays nights cant enjoy WvW. If you dont do anything then people will continue to complain.

Why is playing at night enjoyable anyways? There is no opposition.

WvW has become less about ‘winning’ critical battles, but more about participation. If thats what Arenanet is going for, then I have nothing more to say.

I posted a solution a few days ago, and a moderator smacked it down because apparently having everyone talk in ONE topic (the sticky) is a great idea. Not to mention several people read my idea wrong in the first place.

Set a 12 hour time slot for WvW servers. This is NOT based on timezone. You can have 4 or even 6 different time slots. WvW servers will only be pitted against servers with the same time slots.

The effect: People will choose servers based on which WvW timeslot serves them best. I will never play the game at 4am in the morning, .’. I will choose a timeslot that suits me, as will everyone else. People that play at 4am in the morning will choose the timeslot that suits them.

Its like friggin business hours.

Your missing the key point winning. Anet has already said they Anet has already said they arent changing it. Its like bargining with your parent to stay up another 20 minutes. they decided its their game done.

raenen.5807:

Your missing the key point winning. Anet has already said they Anet has already said they arent changing it. Its like bargining with your parent to stay up another 20 minutes. they decided its their game done.

I know they said that. And look at how much disgust Matt’s statement on the sticky is met with.

Arenanet are banging their head against the wall hoping something will happen, and it just isn’t. So answer my question; is ‘nightcapping’ fun for you?

Only other thing they could do would be give the outnumbered bonus to forts and keeps. Make them harder to take out if your that outnumbered but then people would kitten about that. But it would make night capping harder.

Is it fun? I’d like an honest reply.

night-capping is great fun! and in fact, the fun scaled with regard to the challenge the opposition poses. i.e the more evenly matched, the more fun….all the way down to….the grind to finish capping everything when there is no opposition.

On our server what happens when there is no opposition, is that we cap everything, then just about everyone logs, no upgrading, no defense, nothing. Makes me laugh and cry at the same time lol

i guess some will find it fun cos there must be a period of time when ur running through the maps like locusts collecting like billlions of xp/karma , then u can leave the BG and go and do some dungeons or crafting or something.
save you having all that nonsense of playing against folk for hours and hours to make the same gains.

not my cup of tea but some folk want maximum xp/karma per hour and dont mind how they achieve that.

ginzo.8792:

i guess some will find it fun cos there must be a period of time when ur running through the maps like locusts collecting like billlions of xp/karma , then u can leave the BG and go and do some dungeons or crafting or something.
save you having all that nonsense of playing against folk for hours and hours to make the same gains.

not my cup of tea but some folk want maximum xp/karma per hour and dont mind how they achieve that.

You know, soon servers are just going to start agreeing on when their night cap period starts, so everyone can maximise their benefits from capping. Yep, thats what its going to be, 3 way farming.

Good job Arenanet!

Is it fun? I’d like an honest reply.

To paraphrase one of the kitten nightcapping proponents, “war isn’t supposed to be fun”. Because that is all their argument comes down to at the end.

Fun is subjective. The for the guys winning its fun. For those losing it isnt so regardless its not fun for someone. If you change it then it wont be fun for the night guys.

I find it hilarious they are just shoving all discussion topics into this sticky. One place where they can ignore all the complaints and remain bold in an unfair and uncaring attitude. It’s okay for you American developers, to once again not care about your European players.

To those talking about night capers. Yes, fun is subjective but fun for the minority over fun for the majority is the worst kind of game you could possibly design.

Until they fix night capping or time-zone issues, WvW is dead.

Atrixer.9275:

I find it hilarious they are just shoving all discussion topics into this sticky. One place where they can ignore all the complaints and remain bold in an unfair and uncaring attitude. It’s okay for you American developers, to once again not care about your European players.

To those talking about night capers. Yes, fun is subjective but fun for the minority over fun for the majority is the worst kind of game you could possibly design.

Until they fix night capping or time-zone issues, WvW is dead.

Americans have a lot of the same issues. Don’t say they don’t care about only you,

I made a little picture to illustrate what I think of Piken Square (lower half of EU servers).

http://imageshack.us/a/img803/7739/modelf.jpg

The magenta part seems to be what is causing trouble for us. We do well in prime hours but every server we’ve been matched against just seems to sleep a bit later than us.

i must say i like the idea of US+EU team WvW
(since 2 worlds build a “team” the WvW power of the teams scale better)

After nearly 1000 more posts on this topic alone, most, if any, of the good ideas hiding within the 20 pages which no-one will bother to sort through, ANET least of all…….I think we are owed another reply from Matt.

I really feel like we are being ignored. Yes they gave us a “response” but most people here are disgusted by it and would like a little more effort on their part….ANET, stop ignoring us.

There are already a massive of people dropping your game and for each person you lose, that’s a kittenon of potential mini-transactions you’re are losing, and from our POV that’s all you really care about anyway. Lose, Lose.

I found there is more “opposition” at 5am-9am US than at 5pm-8pm. So you want an afternoon capping too?

So I still have no clue as to how you think only the 4 hours a day you play is somehow the only time that matters. I have over 1000 tokens and 6k wvw kills, all playing at that time where you claim no one plays.

This week we’ve (Fort Aspenwood) been paired against Maguuma and Sea of Sorrows.

A peek over at the ranking’s page;
SoS – 10 (green)
Mag – 11 (blue)
FA -12 (red)

SoS is a known Oceanic server.
Mag has some quality SE Asian players.
FA is mostly NA.

Friday night prime time; FA is dominating these two servers that “rank” above us..
Saturday morning; Mag and SoS have taken over the maps; FA is in third place (even though we claimed whole maps Friday night.)

Not to be outdone; FA works hard to maintain their day point advantage. We begin by reclaiming whole maps.
Saturday evening; we rest with a 3k point lead.

Sunday morning, we wake with SoS in the lead again. Everyone I hear is frustrated by this! SoS can literally get +600 points a tick with no opposition. We at most can get +460 to +520 a tick; as SoS and Mag also field some day pops.
We do not relent; FA resecures whole maps. Mag pretty much disappears from the game. We rest that night with a 7.5k lead

Monday morning; we still have a lead. Monday evening, a great lead.
Tuesday morning, an even greater lead. Tuesday evening; we are 40k over SoS and almost 80k over Mag.

We DID something about night capping; we stayed up late and woke up early. We are tired of this broken system and we went proactive. Do not give in to these night capping servers; dominate them.

You FA guys have been a right pain the the proverbial too! Its been fun playing against you guys, because you DO stay on later and maintain a presence for that much longer and as a result you guys are definitely benefiting

Its nice to see that instead of giving in to the night-capping, that you (as a server) are doing something about it.

SoS has gained a couple of new NA guilds too, and that’s certainly helped us out a lot in terms of not always losing everything in our night-time. We still don’t have the numbers we would like to have and with the long weekend in the state’s it has meant our low-pop times have been exaggerated, but them’s the breaks and what keeps it all interesting and dynamic.

GJ and keep it up FA Much as we hate you atm, we certainly have nothing to complain about and may (possibly) have some grudging respect for ya’s

Shepperd.2178:

After nearly 1000 more posts on this topic alone, most, if any, of the good ideas hiding within the 20 pages which no-one will bother to sort through, ANET least of all…….I think we are owed another reply from Matt.

I really feel like we are being ignored. Yes they gave us a “response” but most people here are disgusted by it and would like a little more effort on their part….ANET, stop ignoring us.

There are already a massive of people dropping your game and for each person you lose, that’s a kittenon of potential mini-transactions you’re are losing, and from our POV that’s all you really care about anyway. Lose, Lose.

I hate how moderators shove any related topic into here, our messages instantly get looked over.

raenen.5807:

Fun is subjective. The for the guys winning its fun. For those losing it isnt so regardless its not fun for someone. If you change it then it wont be fun for the night guys.

I AM the night guy, and I find it an insane waste of my time. When I PvP, heck when I PvE I want a challenge, at least SOME opposition.

Well i still agree that having WvW shut down during some downtime hours is ridiculous.
However it’s been suggested to change the point gain system during downtimes, i can understand that someone’s time isn’t more important then another person.

However if Anet makes the point gain system in direct link with the quantity of opposing players online it would be much fairer.
Why would claiming and holding keeps against 10 players reward the same as if you were defending them against a full opponent(s) server?
It hardly takes the same skill to claim against NPC’s so imo rewards in points should be less.

Also, neither the Australian players, nor the Canadian players have a server of their own to play in, thus disrupting the times in WvW when their prime-time is coming up
Though maybe a bit more radical i would suggest that both mentioned get a server of their own, and get ACTUAL REWARDS for joining and staying on that server.
No player would leave on his own account unless he’d be rewarded for it, the same thing counts with the whole server unbalancing issue.
Letting players solve those issues on their own isn’t getting anything done.

Ex

Great job putting French Canadians playing agains’t EU people so they can cap everything overnight when there no one to fight agains’t when normally they couldn’t fight their way out of a paper bag. So much for the server ranking meaning anything…

I am playing @vabbi, and i have to admit, that current situation totaly sucks.

We are medium, closer to low population server and we may have even during the prime time "
the “outmanned” buff. Without even speaking of night. This leaves us no chanses when we are put together with high population servers. Worst in this is that we are having no fun of playing during our prime time sometimes – all your motivation is gone, when u see the scores, then u enter the battleground and see full battleground of fully upgraded towers/keeps etc and rest of motivation is gone.

My thoughts of fixing this situation probably are same with many other people:

Give us normal outmanned buff, not those useless magic find bonuses. Also, it could be possible to create “Overhelming” buff for enemies, which would weaken them and reduce supply and point incomes.

Also, i think that floating value for max. players at the map, which would not let player differences at the map between servers no more then 10% would be just amazing idea to realize. It would easy do 90% of balancing, would bring skill, not zerg factor to winning wvw, and would motivate high populated servers to transfer for lower populations.

French Canadians ruins the whole WvW.
In far shiverpeaks we are always against vizunah square FR server, in the day we are stronger then them but at night u see their numbers growing and they cap the whole 4 maps almost every night.. thats just BS

I gotta echo this…

“Look I appreciate you guys taking in comsideration of all players around global time zones. However, the problem is that most of these players have flocked to few servers and left other servers empty.
A good solution would be to have a RELATIVE queue based on the population of all 3 servers in WvW. Such that, if one server has players on queue and that queue starts at 250 players and other servers can’t match up even 100 players. Then the queue should be decreased to 100 players and encourage other players to transfer out and create a POPULATION balance.
The problem isn’t that player’s are playing in other time zones, the problem is that players are OUT MANNING other servers during off peak hours. The out mann buff needs a severe update to balance out the effects of actually being out manned.
It all comes down to population balance, if you can balance out and actually control the amount of players in the WvW where everyone has relatively equal numbers just like primetime, then players will actually enjoy WvW.”

Brilliant.

Though I’d probably eat alot of flame and whatnot for this, after reading a few pages of the thread and then skipping to the end, I feel that many are going about this the wrong way entirely..
To start things off I’man Oceanic player in Crystal Desert (just so you know when I do play)

Firstly, what Anet has said about Everyone’s time being equally important to them (to Anet) as we are all paying customers, regardless of our timezone. <—- This I respect and I don’t see why everyone would want to flame them down for that. The fact that your server doesn’t have players during your “night time” and you lose your “worth” isn’t really the intention of Anet I believe. It may seem that way currently but you should cut them some slack. This problem doesn’t really have an easy solution.

Those who are talking about server population in WvW buffs/debuffs should know that it won’t work out. Any kind of timezone benefit/“punishment” will result in people of that timezone complaining that the other timezones get benefits while they get “punishment” and vice versa. Like NA peak timezone remains the same while in Oceanic we get some kind of debuff though we fight against few to no one at all? That makes WvW pointless for us too, which already makes the game not fair for us in that aspect. We use up less time but its still time nonetheless in WvW, but in the end that time will become meaningless and eventually Oceanics WvWing will make minimal impact. Then it will become whomever is not on NA peak timing complaining like crazy and it goes on forever.

Adjustments to the point system based on timing also will not work as it devalues the time of other people in the timezones affected. Making other peoples time more worth it and other’s even lesser.

If you really want a “fair” system, there is really no other way about it then to be proactive and recruit these “night time” players/guilds to your server and try to fight your way through.

Ren.6351:

Though I’d probably eat alot of flame and whatnot for this, after reading a few pages of the thread and then skipping to the end, I feel that many are going about this the wrong way entirely..
To start things off I’man Oceanic player in Crystal Desert (just so you know when I do play)

Firstly, what Anet has said about Everyone’s time being equally important to them (to Anet) as we are all paying customers, regardless of our timezone. <—- This I respect and I don’t see why everyone would want to flame them down for that. The fact that your server doesn’t have players during your “night time” and you lose your “worth” isn’t really the intention of Anet I believe. It may seem that way currently but you should cut them some slack. This problem doesn’t really have an easy solution.

Those who are talking about server population in WvW buffs/debuffs should know that it won’t work out. Any kind of timezone benefit/“punishment” will result in people of that timezone complaining that the other timezones get benefits while they get “punishment” and vice versa. Like NA peak timezone remains the same while in Oceanic we get some kind of debuff though we fight against few to no one at all? That makes WvW pointless for us too, which already makes the game not fair for us in that aspect. We use up less time but its still time nonetheless in WvW, but in the end that time will become meaningless and eventually Oceanics WvWing will make minimal impact. Then it will become whomever is not on NA peak timing complaining like crazy and it goes on forever.

Adjustments to the point system based on timing also will not work as it devalues the time of other people in the timezones affected. Making other peoples time more worth it and other’s even lesser.

If you really want a “fair” system, there is really no other way about it then to be proactive and recruit these “night time” players/guilds to your server and try to fight your way through.

You spend most of this post talking about how any adjustment to the system would cause some players to worth less than others…

… and then you end it by saying the only way we can compete is searching out and recruiting this very small set of players, who are in high demand because their worth is so much higher than everyone else?

Anet just combine eu and us servers god d….. i can mostly only play at night, but im not even bothered to play anymore, since i dont see the fun in playing 20 vs 300 fr…

I know Anet has already said they are not doing much about night capping, but when a server night caps and gets 50k lead with 3 orbs the other 2 sever just dont even try anymore because they gotta go to sleep. Now when they want to play wvw on the weekday after work no one is playing it because what is the point? You cant capture anything and if you do capture one you will lose it when you go to bed on top of needing to fight a server with 3 orbs. NOT FUN ANET. I’m sure many people have already complained about this in the 20 something pages.

Stuff like this makes me wanna leave gw2, because whats the point? the ppl who play at night on the not dominant server are having a terrible time believe me.

night capping is fine.

in real war, attacking enemies when they are asleep / not at home is a valid tactic.

I am an Aussie living in NA time zone and think that a lot of these shut W3 down outside my play time are incredibly selfish. The QQ’ing is completly pathetic. I read one response that said the servers are in NA so they should be cattered for NA’s only. Did the guy who wrote that read it again later then off himself because he realised how stupid it was? All the threats of leaving and statements of w3 being dead are rubbish. W3 is in a very healthy state, the servers are full with queues on the top 6 servers and a healthy battle rages almost 24 hours a day.

This comes down to one single issue, the me generation wanting to win or not play. How about just enjoying the time you have in the game and trying to dominate during your time and forget about the point system. Some weeks you will be out manned in night shifts but eventually the server ranking system will see the servers with the so called unfair advantage pitted against each other most weeks. There is a very very simple solution to all those that are highly competitive and have to win to enjoy the game. Server transfer to a winning server that can backup your hard work during the day. Believe me its not going to hurt your server because you will find your only 1 of 1000 people out of 3 million that actually give a kitten about winning so much.

Dia

To anybody who says “Well in real war they attack at night or when the enemy is sleeping” needs to take a serious look at themselves.

This isn’t real war, it’s a game, it’s meant to be fun and competetive. If you want real war join the army.

Ren.6351:
Though I’d probably eat alot of flame and whatnot for this, after reading a few pages of the thread and then skipping to the end, I feel that many are going about this the wrong way entirely..
To start things off I’man Oceanic player in Crystal Desert (just so you know when I do play)
Firstly, what Anet has said about Everyone’s time being equally important to them (to Anet) as we are all paying customers, regardless of our timezone. <—- This I respect and I don’t see why everyone would want to flame them down for that. The fact that your server doesn’t have players during your “night time” and you lose your “worth” isn’t really the intention of Anet I believe. It may seem that way currently but you should cut them some slack. This problem doesn’t really have an easy solution.
Those who are talking about server population in WvW buffs/debuffs should know that it won’t work out. Any kind of timezone benefit/“punishment” will result in people of that timezone complaining that the other timezones get benefits while they get “punishment” and vice versa. Like NA peak timezone remains the same while in Oceanic we get some kind of debuff though we fight against few to no one at all? That makes WvW pointless for us too, which already makes the game not fair for us in that aspect. We use up less time but its still time nonetheless in WvW, but in the end that time will become meaningless and eventually Oceanics WvWing will make minimal impact. Then it will become whomever is not on NA peak timing complaining like crazy and it goes on forever.
Adjustments to the point system based on timing also will not work as it devalues the time of other people in the timezones affected. Making other peoples time more worth it and other’s even lesser.
If you really want a “fair” system, there is really no other way about it then to be proactive and recruit these “night time” players/guilds to your server and try to fight your way through.
You spend most of this post talking about how any adjustment to the system would cause some players to worth less than others…
… and then you end it by saying the only way we can compete is searching out and recruiting this very small set of players, who are in high demand because their worth is so much higher than everyone else?

Well I did put a “fair” <—- meaning its not exactly the best method but its the only one I can think of that won’t cause grief to others. I’m not saying people in Oceanic timezones have more worth that someone in NA, just that you don’t have people in that timezone to help you fight. The point I wanted to make was to just say that changes to the WvW points system/population system wouldn’t work out without really causing some kind of complaints from one side of the world.

I mean when I was fighting ET/IoJ we’d come in and fight a zerg of like 60 and all I had was 15 guys. We got totally destroyed by them, but what my server did was start asking around for those Oceanic’s who were lurking around and asked if they were willing to start participating in WvW to help CD rise up…

Of course I can’t say whether your server has any Oceanics or what but theres nothing else you can really do aside from staying up to play yourself to cover your "night time
shift (which of course is madness) or to try to recruit more oceanic players to your server.

Just to reinstate the above, I’m not trying to give like a 100% solution I’m just saying that its quite hard to get a proper solution without pissing someone off.

Would it be so bad to have 8 maps and 3teams of 2 servers each? 1 from NA and 1 EU. The teams should be random and “equally” balanced (top-last or top-top).

@Ren:

Yes I see what you’re saying, but take a step back for a second. As it stands right now, for any NA server, 1 Oceanic/Asian/European player is worth how many NA players?

Let’s say, for the sake of argument, that I and I alone represented a server. Doesn’t matter which one, let’s just imagine that I could make all of the decisions for that server. (Yes, I realize we are already in the realm of the ridiculous… that’s part of the point)

And so I am trying to put together a WvW team to rise to the top and become a T1 or T2 competitor. Let’s say that I have “applicants”, so we don’t have to discuss HOW I am supposed to take players away from my competition.

Of these applicants… NA players are basically useless to me, where as Oceanics are vital not because they are excellent strategists or good players – but because of where they live in the world. If I am a mid range server, simply taking a couple active “off-hours” guilds from another server can almost instantly swap our ladder positions. Currently the NA ladder is primarily dictated by your off-hours coverage.

NA players on NA servers =/= Oceanic players on NA servers

I agree that all players should be equal. Right now, the only thing that really matters in the NA ladder is how many non-NA players you have on your server.

Now… before some people go nuts… yes, I know it isn’t strictly NA and Oceanic and it is more based on an individuals schedule than geographical location. Yes, I know servers that lack NA population suffer too – but that is the same problem reversed.

I would never want to see any “solution” that caused occassional imbalances to dissapear, or prevent some players from fully experiencing WvW. I do however want to see some kind of solution to help equalize the situation. I think around the clock coverage should still be important, just not this important.

The most important part of WvW should be organization, strategy, and coherence. Not who has the largest share of a very small subset of the population.

Thanks ANet. You have killed the WvW experiance on our server thanks to doing nothing about nightcapping.
Everyone has stoped doing it becouse there no use, we always loose at the end anyways.
Only casual PvPers left that hardly knows which zone their in, fighting the grub.

Okay yeah, I just wanted to say that we are all equal, or at should have been anyway. I do agree with your final statement but… Currently aside from completely revamping servers like by creating a few Oceanic servers with region lock I can’t think of another solution. But even that has its flaws as what.. we’d only be able to make only a few servers on that end.

Ren.6351:

Okay yeah, I just wanted to say that we are all equal, or at should have been anyway. I do agree with your final statement but… Currently aside from completely revamping servers like by creating a few Oceanic servers with region lock I can’t think of another solution. But even that has its flaws as what.. we’d only be able to make only a few servers on that end.

Yes, it is a simple problem without any simple solution.

My favorite idea is to eliminate the NA and EU designations, and close a few of the smallest servers. The whole world should be on integrated servers, which will help solve this problem in a major way without changing the game at all.

I personally feel that the problem is this,
your players have no control over their own destiny
not in the sense they have no ability, as an individual or as a guild.
More in the sense of the simple, they log in they are losing, how do they change that, they try to change it themselves they cant, they join a guild they cant. They become part of a team, they cant, their team can’t.

There is no outlet.

quit or play.

I feel you need to put the power in the hands of the players, the people who play this game. (bit eve like i know, wouldnt go that far. They need a way to balance this with Anets support.

oh btw im listening to the cranberries now, heard them first when i washed windows, swept chimmneys.

Bring back shorter matches.

Unless there is human intervention involving the server match ups, I don’t see why the match ups have to be week long affairs. That way if a prime time only server gets matched up against some 247 server, or a NA server vs an Oceanic server, players don’t have to deal with that level of demoralization as much on the losing servers and are more excited to partake in WvW instead of playing when the matchup starts realizing you are outmatched and nothing but a kill farm for a week for the more powerful server.

Make them shorter again, WvW was more interesting and a lot more fun then, imho.

Well I would like to Quote Anet on something " We dont want any players time to be more valuable than others players time". You say this claiming to not want to alienate off peak players but as it stand in WvW off peak players time is more valuable than peak players time. During peak time you cant claim 6 keeps in an hour. Its just not possible but in off peak times its a pretty simple matter and happens all the time and it makes there time worth more. A good plan to curb this is to implement a scoring ratio based on number of active players. If all realms have equal players or semi close players then they should get normal scoring but if one realm has a quarter of the players they should get extra points for the things they hold or the other team should get reduced points. ( i am only proposing to change the total score gained at a time, the score that affects the rating of the realm, but not the server wide buff gains)