you can’t punish players that don’t play in your timezone.
With that, instead of trying to solve the problem by timezone, solve the problem by outmannned buff.
If your realm is “Outmanned” in a zone, the following buffs should be applied
-gates/walls/npcs take 20% less damage
-npcs deal 20% more damage
-all siege of the outmanned team deals 20% more damage.
this is a great way to help the outmanned team last longer until more players arrive to support the fight.
Night capping, like WvW population imbalances would be solved by a dynamic border pop cap (i.e. you can only have the same number of people in the border zones as the next highest pop +x%).
But of course this has been suggested many times and is not the solution, because it would mean people wanting to go into empty border zones at night and cap all the towers without opposition would HAVE TO QUEUE TOO LONG.
I completely disagree with the OP. I LOVE night-capping. I enjoy WvW the most at around 3am. At this time there are few people on the maps and certainly no zergs. It means I can really enjoy tactically taking towers and camps etc. with a few other players who are online. It makes WvW fun and challenging and the most enjoyable I ever find it (compared to running in a zerg train during peak hours). I can see why organised night-capping in large groups might be a problem but you cant expect people to wait around for the zergs to return so we can all ‘play fair’. Wars are 24/7 and so should WvW.
you can’t punish players that don’t play in your timezone.
With that, instead of trying to solve the problem by timezone, solve the problem by outmannned buff.
If your realm is “Outmanned” in a zone, the following buffs should be applied
-gates/walls/npcs take 20% less damage
-npcs deal 20% more damage
-all siege of the outmanned team deals 20% more damage.this is a great way to help the outmanned team last longer until more players arrive to support the fight.
This won’t work. 20% less damage will maybe prolong it a few minutes longer. If people are sleeping or at school/work, they’re not going to wake up or rush home to login to defend. Plus, you can always place another ram to compensate for the 20% reduction in damage.
you can’t punish players that don’t play in your timezone.
With that, instead of trying to solve the problem by timezone, solve the problem by outmannned buff.
If your realm is “Outmanned” in a zone, the following buffs should be applied
-gates/walls/npcs take 20% less damage
-npcs deal 20% more damage
-all siege of the outmanned team deals 20% more damage.this is a great way to help the outmanned team last longer until more players arrive to support the fight.
What exactly would that help if an enemy 20 man night shift zerg is running around and your servers night shift consist of 3 half-sleeping players of which 2 are AFK in the spawn?
The buffs/debuffs you proposed mean absolutely nothing to the issue. NPCs dealing 20% more damage is especially laughable, since 20% more than taking no damage is… still taking no damage.
The “solution” posted earlier was less ticks at 00-08 when its “nighttime” for people on the server. Equally ridiculous since for people across all timezones (US or EU doesnt matter, both areas cover multiple timezones), that would equal more like 19-11, ie cut straight into primetime. It dont work to modify by time, we’ve already reached that conclusion. So that I agree with.
Still think you need to go to the root – keeps being taken unopposed and held unopposed shouldnt be worth much. A 20v20 siege in one border in the middle of the night when every other map is completely empty should be all that matters, even if one server is “holding” the other 95% of the keeps.
(edited by Dawdler.8521)
I see a lot of talk about how this is only an issue with those who worry about PPT. But I think it is important to stress that it is very important that your server is able to hold things over the sleepy hours. Those of us who can only get on during this time can be stuck in a wvw map with no waypoint, no siege, no protection, and no safety against a zerg from a server that happens to have a stronger night crew, all because their main population is gone at the moment. Outmanned is a nice buff for them, but they still deserve at least a way to hold their territory fairly.
It effects all of us, regardless of whether or not you care about PPT.
Just my 2c.
(edited by Kokurai.7258)
Poor Australian players. They dont have any server.
Ferguson’s Crossing
The definition of one word will literally explain your grief as well as provide a solution for your sorrow.
Coverage.
Welcome the the internet. Not everyone plays when you are allowed to play, and no one is going to step away from the keyboard when you have to. 24/7 we’re killing each other. Over points that mean nothing on a scoreboard that means nothing. In the end have fun and good luck living longer than your enemy. But crying about coverage in a MMO is pretty sad. Not sure if ultra troll, or ultra confused.
People (OP especially) need to realize that everyone who bought this game has the right to experience it the same way. YOU can’t punish someone who plays when YOU are not able to, just because YOU are losing.
EU people who want to play on NA servers have that right and vice versa. People who purchased this game in countries that don’t have servers, have the right to play on any server when they are able to.
And, if the OP is American, how dare you tell our troops who are overseas that their contributions to WvW should not matter, or that they can’t transfer servers just because YOU can’t play during those hours and they are gaining ppt for their server.
How about the people in EU and NA who have evening jobs or are students and they can only play during the night or the afternoon? Should they be punished as well?
How about we just get rid of Afternoon and Primetime capping, since others are left out?
Yes, the game is 24/7, and everyone has a different schedule, and people need to respect that. THIS IS A GAME AND EVERYONE DESERVES TO BE ABLE TO EXPERIENCE IT THE SAME WAY. DON’T TRY TO HANDICAP THE EXPERIENCE OF OTHERS BECAUSE YOU ARE A SORE LOSER.
Some ppl don’t understand what is all about. 90% ppl are sleeping at night so when most of host server forces are in beds, other time zones few ppl may have their day prime time and can flip scoreboard upside-down. NA players have their own servers with low ping also.
Winning in fair fight is the most important thing in pvp like games, so it MUST be fixed.
(edited by Sin.4130)
Some ppl don’t understand what is all about. 90% ppl are sleeping at night so when most of host server forces are in beds, other time zones few ppl may have their day prime time and can flip scoreboard upside-down. NA players have their own servers with low ping also.
Winning in fair fight is the most important thing in pvp like games, so it MUST be fixed.
Same can be said, but in reverse for DB. Our SEA force is our largest, and when they sleep (EU) all of our stuff goes, so our EU and NA coverage deserve special protection and attention. Sound good?
Some ppl don’t understand what is all about. 90% ppl are sleeping at night so when most of host server forces are in beds, other time zones few ppl may have their day prime time and can flip scoreboard upside-down. NA players have their own servers with low ping also.
Winning in fair fight is the most important thing in pvp like games, so it MUST be fixed.
Same can be said, but in reverse for DB. Our SEA force is our largest, and when they sleep (EU) all of our stuff goes, so our EU and NA coverage deserve special protection and attention. Sound good?
All players should have as equal conditions as possible.
Some ppl don’t understand what is all about. 90% ppl are sleeping at night so when most of host server forces are in beds, other time zones few ppl may have their day prime time and can flip scoreboard upside-down. NA players have their own servers with low ping also.
Winning in fair fight is the most important thing in pvp like games, so it MUST be fixed.
On our server (Gunnars Hold EU) and our former matchup 3 people on EB and each BL could take it all. Complete maps and made our server tick for insane amounts during the night. We won that week because of that, completly unfair advantage.
Some ppl don’t understand what is all about. 90% ppl are sleeping at night so when most of host server forces are in beds, other time zones few ppl may have their day prime time and can flip scoreboard upside-down. NA players have their own servers with low ping also.
Winning in fair fight is the most important thing in pvp like games, so it MUST be fixed.
Same can be said, but in reverse for DB. Our SEA force is our largest, and when they sleep (EU) all of our stuff goes, so our EU and NA coverage deserve special protection and attention. Sound good?
All players should have as equal conditions as possible.
That is something I agree with completely. It has to be fair and affect everyone, not just ‘nightcappers’ because they work or live on the other side of the world. It has to be in place/able to work any time of day, not just ‘nighttime’
That is something I agree with completely. It has to be fair and affect everyone, not just ‘nightcappers’ because they work or live on the other side of the world. It has to be in place/able to work any time of day, not just ‘nighttime’
Need for sleep is something different then for example need for job, school etc.
Servers population in one time zone or nearest should be equal enough for fair matches.
(edited by Sin.4130)
That is something I agree with completely. It has to be fair and affect everyone, not just ‘nightcappers’ because they work or live on the other side of the world. It has to be in place/able to work any time of day, not just ‘nighttime’
Need for sleep is something different then for example need for job, school etc.
Server population in one time zone or nearest should be equal enough for fair matches.
Closest timezone for me is NA. Im in NA. I am still technically a ‘nightcapper’. This wont work unless they make an oceanic/asian based server.
Also, one of my guildies is a NA player. He works the graveyard shift, finishing early morning EST (5am or so) and then comes online to play, technically a nightcapper too, so work is a reason for nightcappers
Need for sleep is something different then for example need for job, school etc.
Servers population in one time zone or nearest should be equal enough for fair matches.
Really? Why is your sleep(relax time) more important than my job that allows me to buy gems by cash?
Who are you that you want to dictate conditions i can play with?
Even conditions are just now, every tower/keep/camp will bring you same ammount of points 24/7.
here is a hint for you:
Than whinning on forums about somebody took your tower at night, change job, start sleeping during day and play during night.
You will help your server more than whining on forums.
Yh great idea change your life for stupid online game . To be honest night capping is one of the biggest bulls**ts in this game . I know it is really awesome when your server got night cappers and you are practically win every week doing nothing but it really sucks when you lose match-ups only because of night cappers .
Some ppl don’t understand what is all about. 90% ppl are sleeping at night so when most of host server forces are in beds, other time zones few ppl may have their day prime time and can flip scoreboard upside-down. NA players have their own servers with low ping also.
Winning in fair fight is the most important thing in pvp like games, so it MUST be fixed.
I wanna see your prove that 90% of the people are sleeping at night. PROVE IT.
And it is a fair fight. Some servers have a lot of people who play late NA hours, SEA/Oceanic hours, as well as EU hours (on NA servers and NA hours on EU servers). That IS THEIR RIGHT SINCE THEY PAID REAL MONEY FOR THIS GAME.
Sore kitten losers. When my server was 12 and facing SoS, and getting killed by their SEA/Oceanic coverage, I didn’t whine. I just went out and had fun, and tried to kill as many of them, and tried to get the ppt up during primetime just for kicks. It’s all about fun while you are playing, quit worrying about what happens when you aren’t.
Some ppl don’t understand what is all about. 90% ppl are sleeping at night so when most of host server forces are in beds, other time zones few ppl may have their day prime time and can flip scoreboard upside-down. NA players have their own servers with low ping also.
Winning in fair fight is the most important thing in pvp like games, so it MUST be fixed.
Same can be said, but in reverse for DB. Our SEA force is our largest, and when they sleep (EU) all of our stuff goes, so our EU and NA coverage deserve special protection and attention. Sound good?
All players should have as equal conditions as possible.
That is something I agree with completely. It has to be fair and affect everyone, not just ‘nightcappers’ because they work or live on the other side of the world. It has to be in place/able to work any time of day, not just ‘nighttime’
If you think night cappers are really the only reason servers win, then you need to visit Sea of Sorrows for a few weeks. They have a great night crew, but their EU coverage and NA coverage isn’t as strong, so they lose to people who do have stronger coverage in those spots.
Same can be said for Dragonbrand, who has some insane night coverage. But, when faced with people who have good NA coverage, and decent night coverage, they lose.
All zones of coverage are factored into these scores. It all depends on the match ups.
SBI (my server) has good night coverage, poor EU coverage, and good NA coverage. We lost our season 1 week 1 match up to FA because they had better EU coverage, and that is fair. It balances out in the long run. SoS has better night coverage, we had better day/NA, and we almost won last week, we did win one of the match ups with them.
TLDR; Total coverage counts, not just one time zone. One time zone cannot win a match. Their are 24 hours in a day, and trying to win a match with only 8 hours of coverage is foolish. Don’t even try to say it isn’t fair, because tossing 16 hours of coverage out the window because you don’t play in it, now that is unfair.
I wanna see your prove that 90% of the people are sleeping at night. PROVE IT.
All my friends sleep at night and act at day time, is it good prove for you ? if not – visit any one time zone server or read about human behavior
(edited by Sin.4130)
Yh great idea change your life for stupid online game . To be honest night capping is one of the biggest bulls**ts in this game . I know it is really awesome when your server got night cappers and you are practically win every week doing nothing but it really sucks when you lose match-ups only because of night cappers .
Nothing sucks more than losing your matchup due to Primetime cappers. Same can be said.
Funny how people think that the night cappers aren’t playing this game the same way. Funny how they think that night cappers don’t enjoy losing because the other server has more primetime players. It goes both ways. You guys need to get over yourselves (and btw, I am a student, and I play whenever I can, and that is normally only at reset these days, but if I get a chance to play in primetime I do, and if I play during the night I do, and if it is the morning I will, etc, etc.) I expect my time to always count, and so does everyone else.
Yh great idea change your life for stupid online game . To be honest night capping is one of the biggest bulls**ts in this game . I know it is really awesome when your server got night cappers and you are practically win every week doing nothing but it really sucks when you lose match-ups only because of night cappers .
your nights, is someone elses day………its a MMO and goes on 24/7 so suck it up
ANet won’t (and shouldn’t) EVER punish people for where they live, the hours they work, go to school, etc. Aside from being counter to some of their core design philosophy, it would drive players away from this game. I for one would like to see the servers keep running.
I’m saying this as a west-coast NA player, the very kind that frequently gets nightcapped by OCX, SEA and EU coverage, and someone who spends over 50% of his play time in WvW. I’m no stranger to the arguments and frustrations that spawned this thread. Here are my two cents:
It is a game. Deal with it. Fair to you is not fair to them, but allowing everyone to play when and how they want is fair to everyone.
If you really don’t like the nightcapping, get a job that lets you play at 3AM and take care of it yourself. Don’t come here to cry.
sigh
Op claims that it is unfair that some people play when he/she is asleep and that because they worked hard during their day it shouldn’t be taken away. Following your logic and being Australian I think you should be banned from wvw or have your points reduced when I’m asleep because I can’t keep the towers I worked for during my day. However I suspect you’d disagree with that because it doesn’t fit into your incredibly self entitled view of the issue.
You claim servers lose 90% of their population during the night, NEWSFLASH, that affects every server. The server your on is affected by this, the server your fighting is affected by this. If your enemy has an oceanic guild which outplays your night crew then that’s is YOUR SERVERS RESPONSIBILITY to rectify it either by:
a) getting your own oceanic guild to counter theirs
b) staying up late yourself
c) performing better during the server day to out do the efforts of the night crew
This is not meant to be a nice little arena fight where everyone wears the same gear and has the same time limits etc etc etc. It’s a WAR. That means it’s dirty. Your encouraged to out play, outnumber and out gear your opponent. It’s about effort, especially now that servers are being matched to servers of a similar standard and we’re increasingly less likely to have blowout matches. If you can’t deal with that then go play spvp which is a separate being and has what you want, or so it seems.
Who are these night cappers by the way – apart from when OP sleeps. For example NA is divided into three time zones, so in which time frame does ‘night capping occur’.
Also, what about day capping – all those folks who play and cap stuff while our NA brothers and sisters are hard at work or study .. I think we should do something to address this timezone too so OP doesn’t feel shortchanged.
One persons night time is another persons prime time. Therefore this cannot be changed or altered in any way.
The only thing I see is regardless of time timezone, it’s again the coverage in numbers at a particular time that is the problem, and it all boils down to the outmanned buff, make it more of a battle advantage and therefore even ur low defense numbers in your non prime time will have benefits against the night capping zerg that outnumbers you.
I’m going to try and approach this topic from both angles. Being someone that spends over half the gold I make on structural upgrades and siege weaponry in WvW, I can identify with the fact that it sucks to have everything you capped and upgraded taken while you are sleeping. HOWEVER nightcapping is a phenomenon in WvW that isn’t really stoppable. The fact of the matter is there are people from other time zones that play GW2, and they want to play WvW whenever they have time and feel like it (granted theres no queue). Night capping is something you’re either going to have to start planning for, or just accepting that it will happen. Theres no way to take away night capping without effectively stepping on another players toes somewhere.
Lol people still care about PPT?
As much as I hate PPT, it matters when your server starts to drop because you only play for fights, and you don’t want to verse the lower ranked trash servers that never want to fight (they instead PPT or play siege wars, gets boring quick) (this probably isn’t an issue for EU, it is for NA though)
Night capping – final solution … = BAN NIGHT TIME!
I think the problem is the whole point system, get rid of it. I don’t know how they could adjust or fix it but it is the problem. From what I mostly see in WvW anyways it’s nothing but a farming train. It’s not that often you have people caring about holding stuff rather than joining the zerg to rack up that silver/karma from taking stuff.
I have seen times when we have had a tower or keep fully upgraded and we have held it for a good number of hours by hard work. Then some noob commander comes in advertising his “karma train” and when told about an enemy zerg assaulting said tower/keep the reply is something like: “let them take it, more cash/points for us taking back”. This is PART of the problem right here. Not enough incentive/reward for holding stuff rather than taking. And yes this happens a lot at what would be called “night capping hours” my server time.
Point/reward system needs a major overhaul.
sigh
Op claims that it is unfair that some people play when he/she is asleep and that because they worked hard during their day it shouldn’t be taken away. Following your logic and being Australian I think you should be banned from wvw or have your points reduced when I’m asleep because I can’t keep the towers I worked for during my day. However I suspect you’d disagree with that because it doesn’t fit into your incredibly self entitled view of the issue.
I would argue that it’s not a “self entitled” view, and here’s why. Look at this example:
http://mos.millenium.org/servers/view/35/
This is our current match, and is representative of every match my server has with any opponent server ranked higher than it is. A matchup is not competitive or fun when the opponent can tick 500-600 uncontested for a significant portion every 24 hour period. There is absolutely no counter to this – other than what we did last week which was straight up accept 3rd place at reset and spend the entire week standing on their throat whenever we had a force online so that the other server could take 1st.
It’s not self entitled to want to have your contributions to be meaningful. The night capper side of this argument is that they feel persecuted by these complaints because it is an attack on their contributions. However their contributions are worth nearly 4x what anyone else’s are worth and they don’t want to lose it. In the end, you care as much about PPT as we do, otherwise you wouldn’t care that we are asking for some kind of mechanism to level the playing field… You WANT to have the 500+ tick 4-6 hour window so that your server insta-wins. That is a lot more self entitled than wanting a solution that creates an even playing field. If you don’t care about PPT, then what difference does it make if your PPT is downshifted when you don’t meet resistance? We’ve been forced not to care about PPT for nearly 1.5 years in this system while your side of the ocean has singlehandedly decided weeklong matchups 4 hours at a time… in the interest of fairness – considering that this is indeed a game with no rewards on the line and not a competitive sport – is it self entitled to ask that everyone who plays has reasonable opportunity to affect the outcome of a match?
Also, the far reaching consequences of this cycle is negatively impacting WvW as a whole. Every week that a server sees the matchup posted on Friday after reset and already knows what the final score is going to look like is one more week of people either giving up and not playing WvW at all, or transferring to a new server higher in the ranks. Its a self perpetuating problem that is driving people away from the game mode, not attracting them to it. Every week since leagues, less and less people show up to play WvW on my server – and universally the reason is because what they do simply does not matter in relation to the nighttime presence of opponents. Every week more people from my friends list show up on other servers where they would actually prefer to deal with high population queues than to simply not matter.
The ones that don’t matter asking to matter in the outcome are not self entitled. The ones telling them to shut up and accept the fact that they never will matter are self entitled.
You claim servers lose 90% of their population during the night, NEWSFLASH, that affects every server. The server your on is affected by this, the server your fighting is affected by this. If your enemy has an oceanic guild which outplays your night crew then that’s is YOUR SERVERS RESPONSIBILITY to rectify it either by:
a) getting your own oceanic guild to counter theirs
b) staying up late yourself
c) performing better during the server day to out do the efforts of the night crew
a) Oceanic guilds do not transfer to servers that don’t already have oceanic guilds. We’ve tried for over a year and had 2 willing to transfer, both of which left after being outmanned by our opponents for a couple of weeks. No one is willing to be “the one” to spearhead the growth.
b) staying up late is an acceptable counter to people from your own time zone staying up late… not a long term solution against servers who have people with daytime during your night time.
c) During the day you are still facing active opposition from TWO sides. You can perform well, but countering a 10k lead would require both other servers working in cooperation at all other times of the day to counter which would then severely punish the players in 19 hours of a 24 hour day for the actions of those in 5 of the 24 hours.
In the end, the final solution may not even be in this thread… but something does have to change because the way it is simply does not work for the greater number of players. We need an overall structural change to how scoring works or how matchups are made.
It’s always daytime somewhere in the world….WvW is a place where the sun never sets.
This is a pointless conversation when people don’t even listen to what the opposing viewpoint is saying.
Some people get fixated on the word night. And timezones. The issue is not about "night"capping or where you live on a round planet (too bad the world isn’t flat) or when you work or when you sleep or any of that.
Its about different numbers of people playing at different times in our 24-hour cycle around the sun. And its about fun. Funny the way some people decrying some method of balance talk about fun. Thats exactly why people have talked about this since launch.
It is more fun to play when you have a relatively equal number of people involved. And it is more fun when the score is close.
Anyway, I’m betting by July WvW will have gone to Red vs. Green vs. Blue. They can do it with the EOTM map and that will be the testing ground. Soon after it’ll expand to WvW proper.
This is a pointless conversation when people don’t even listen to what the opposing viewpoint is saying.
Some people get fixated on the word night. And timezones. The issue is not about "night"capping or where you live on a round planet (too bad the world isn’t flat) or when you work or when you sleep or any of that.
Its about different numbers of people playing at different times in our 24-hour cycle around the sun. And its about fun. Funny the way some people decrying some method of balance talk about fun. Thats exactly why people have talked about this since launch.
It is more fun to play when you have a relatively equal number of people involved. And it is more fun when the score is close.
Anyway, I’m betting by July WvW will have gone to Red vs. Green vs. Blue. They can do it with the EOTM map and that will be the testing ground. Soon after it’ll expand to WvW proper.
Common sense…who would have tunk it
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