Guild Wars 2

Jessica Boettiger.2563:

It has been the case for a while now that players who very recently respawned are not worth any WXP. To bring other systems in-line with this, players who are not worth any WXP are now also not worth any loot or XP. We are aware that this also affects sigil stacks, and are evaluating whether we want to treat the stacks the same way: only when a player is worth WXP/XP and loot, can stacks be gained from killing them.

I don’t get the point.

Players who recently respawned are not worth any WXP… And on top of that players who are not worth any WXP are now also not worth any loot (or XP).

So my effort to kill such a player is also not worth it? If that is true then we need visuals that indicates the player is not worth to kill for either WXP or loot.

Would be fun if this also applies on recently spawned mobs in PVE! Helps to stop the botting for sure :P

Yup, again, I’m not sure behind the logic of this system. I’d like to know more about the reasoning that led to such thing, because I don’t consider the things Jessica said to be problematic in any way.

I had killed 3 players yesterday in a row without getting loot (or wxp/exp) or stacks from my sigil, which confused me. I didn’t realize this was implemented, but I can see the thought process behind it. One of these ‘kills’ still confused me because it was on the other side of the map; possibly because of enemy waypoint? What bothered me was the fact that I was taking a camp and fighting in 2v1 /1v1 fights for a duration in which I wasn’t getting stacks on my stacking weapon for my efforts (which is sort of the point to fighting with your sigil, especially outnumbered). I think it’s a good idea because nobody likes spawn camping, but perhaps, especially on enemy and home BLs this should be re-evaluated, as camps are close to the spawn as well.

Thanks for taking the time to read this,

terrible change, there was not enough loot in wvw already before

Jessica Boettiger.2563:

GreenAlien.5623:

What is the reason for that mechanic?

The purpose of this mechanic has always been to mitigate spawn camping, kill trading, and as an added benefit, it also discourages botting.

The threshold of time before a player is worth WXP (and now also XP/Loot) has not changed, and is low enough that it is almost always the case that a player’s death will award WXP and loot in the time it takes for them to run from a portal keep to a nearby objective.

This is just going to make the reward difference between this game mode and others even more glaring. One of the best ways that WvWers actually generate some efficient form of income is through killing enemy zergs that wipe and try to blob into their structure to defend it.

Also, why would you only nerf kills and not the mindless tower and keep farm? WvW is a competitive game mode that is supposed to be about fighting other players over control of locations rather than avoiding kills and constantly trading structures for rewards.

Does the respawn cd also take effect after manual res/rally?
It does confuse things a lot, especially with thieves/mes who can stealth on down.
Does a killl message show up in the new combat log?

Jessica Boettiger.2563:

The purpose of this mechanic has always been to mitigate spawn camping, kill trading, and as an added benefit, it also discourages botting.

The threshold of time before a player is worth WXP (and now also XP/Loot) has not changed, and is low enough that it is almost always the case that a player’s death will award WXP and loot in the time it takes for them to run from a portal keep to a nearby objective.

I’m not so sure about that threshold of time. Something definitely changed in the last patch. I won a 1v1 fight against an enemy warrior near Umber (supply camp on Eternal Battlegrounds) earlier this week, and I was rewarded with no WXP, no XP, no loot, and not stacks on my stacking sigil. I was quite confused. And that wasn’t the only time that happened either.

As for the spawn camping thing… spawn camping is a strategy in some cases, so you’re definitely not going to get rid of it with this mechanic. For example, if my server has a zerg attacking enemy Overlook on EB, my havoc group may cut off reinforcements from the enemy spawn to prevent them from getting to their keep. That could be considered spawn camping, but it does server a strategic purpose.

I have done about 20 champion bag type events in the last 3 days and only got bags for 5 – players ive definitely contributed towards killing have given me nothing and these are players in big zergs trying to get into the keep so they have been there a while and arnt on ‘cooldown’

Im not doing less damage than I was before so I just don’t get it, but 15 bags less is a BIG diference

Uh, I think the ANet employee is incorrect in their explanation of why you don’t get credit. This lack of credit for kills occurs EVERYWHERE in WvW, not just near spawn points. It’s been in the game for months. I’ve noticed because I am very much into doing my daily achievements. I also noticed that when my guildmates, (who are not berzerker thieves for the most part like myself get way more loot bags off the enemy than I do), even though I tag way more enemy than they do. I do MUCH more damage overall than the majority of my guildmates. They’ll talk about getting 30 loot bags off an enemy zerg we stomped while I only get 8 or so. It’s very disheartening and has made me lose much of my interest in WvW.

This has not always been the case. Up until a few months ago, if I tagged someone for 2000 points of damage, I got credit for the kill.

I think the reason is that some types of attacks get you credit for “tags” better than others. For example, if I do an area attack and hit 5 enemy players for 2000 points of damage each (10,000 damage total) versus a melee warrior who hits 3 players with melee for 3000 damage each (9000 damage total), he may get credit for all 3 if those enemies die while I may not get credit for any even if all of the enemy I hit die as well.

Dagger storm, which is one of the thief’s elite skills that can only be used every 90 seconds (typically once per encounter with the enemy) may not give credit for many kills even if I tag 20 enemy. Area effect skills like choking gas or cluster bomb seem not to count very much either. This may be because a minimum amount of damage is required per enemy to count.

The end result of this is that if you play a class or build that can survive close range melee against an enemy zerg (such as most warriors), you will get way more xp, loot, and kill credit versus squishier classes or builds even if you do significantly less damage overall. I don’t want to play a warrior. It’s not a class I particularly enjoy playing. Guardians are fun, but way too slow by my standards. I leveled a guardian to 80, gave him full exotic gear, and just could not get past the lack of mobility in WvW. Kudos to those that enjoy these classes. I don’t think it’s fair that I get penalized for playing a thief.

One way to mitigate this is to make sure you are always in a group as it drops the damage threshold for getting credit. Does that make any sense whatsoever? Is there any logical reason for it? No. It’s stupid. But it does help somewhat.

On a side note, because of the megaserver feature, we now have enormous crowds at world boss fights. That’s great, but it has an unintended side effect. As a berzerker thief, I never had a problem getting credit for kills. Now, with world bosses getting burned down so much faster, I try to make sure on certain fights that I am always in a group. Ulgoth and the 3 champs that spawn before him are prime examples of this issue. I’ve unloaded on these champs and on Ulgoth and done over 100k damage to Ulgoth and about 50k damage to the champs without getting credit for the kills. I know those numbers aren’t big, but you have to understand that they melt pretty fast, so we are talking maybe 30 seconds to kill each champ and 60 seconds to kill Ulgoth. Even in a group, I sometimes don’t get credit for a champion. The avatars that spawn before the jungle wurm are another example of this problem. I can do a ton of damage to them, way more than most players, and still not get credit if I am not in a group. It’s very annoying to the player that likes independence.

Players who are no longer “honorable kills” (someone who has been killed recently) should have a buff to convey this. This buff should be visible to the enemy team; not to the player who has their buff or their allies. This will allow the enemy to know what’s going on and prevent those with the buff from feeling discouraged or gaming the system with it.

SFShinigami.2015:

Earlier today I spent probably close to an hour killing the same terrible BG ele as he contested water gate over and over again. Every time I’d down him and every time he’d go to login screen before I could stomp him. He then, presumably, would log in dead, have to waypoint before entering WvW gain then run all the way back to do it over again. Most of the time he gave no wxp or loot. The intervals were 3 and half to 5 minutes. That seems a little excessive. Also, as WvWers our gold tends to come from lots of little pieces of loot that add up over time. We already get crap for rewards in general, more or less removing the potential to accumulate gold this way is a real kick in the pants.

This. Soooo much this.

I already make extremely small amounts of gold in WvW and when it gets to the point that I’m not even getting any loot from killing players, which is what i spend most of my time doing, It begs the question of why the kitten do i bother with WvW anyway.

Please Anet, I dont care if I get WXP for player kills, but dont touch my loot unless you’re gonna buff it!

Also, It doesnt help that the cost of getting increased supply delivery from your camps has been stealth-patched up to 10s. I wondered where all my gold was going.

Great!

15 charr’s.

Jessica Boettiger.2563:

We will be removing the timer after death before killed players are worth XP in WvW.

is that only for xp or also for loot?

Jessica Boettiger.2563:

DraganBlack.7864:

Jessica Boettiger.2563:

We will be removing the timer after death before killed players are worth XP in WvW.

is that only for xp or also for loot?

If a player is worth XP, they will also be worth loot. This also affects rallying, sigil stacks, on-kill procs, etc.

thank you. that is great

If you want to prevent Spawn camping, Give us the Vigil Megalaser from Teq and put two of em at the end of every spawn, facing the EB keep. Give it the range, and double the damage of a regular cannon.

enemy player walks over to your spawn, shoot with laser. enemy dies.

Hamster.4861:

If you want to prevent Spawn camping, Give us the Vigil Megalaser from Teq and put two of em at the end of every spawn, facing the EB keep. Give it the range, and double the damage of a regular cannon.

enemy player walks over to your spawn, shoot with laser. enemy dies.

Or have the legendary defenders patrol the area instead of just standing there.

Jessica Boettiger.2563:

We will be removing the timer after death before killed players are worth XP in WvW.

Thanks for the response Jessica! Glad to see this thread didn’t just go dark!

I’m sure the WvW community would be happy to share ideas to combat problems like spawn camping (maybe there could be more visibility to other exits?), or kill trading if those do become a major problem – but like many posters have said, we just haven’t seen these pop up often, if at all.

Hamster.4861:

If you want to prevent Spawn camping, Give us the Vigil Megalaser from Teq and put two of em at the end of every spawn, facing the EB keep. Give it the range, and double the damage of a regular cannon.

enemy player walks over to your spawn, shoot with laser. enemy dies.

ohh, did someone say we get to play lazers???? is nom going to come play lazers too?

Wow, Anet is certainly working hard this month, keep it up :-)

You know what, I’m gonna second the SPAWNLAZERS idea. Put some kind of mannable turrets at spawn that let people fry anyone that tries to camp, and spawn camping will end. Not only that, it would be insanely friggin hilarious.

Dayra.7405:

Nerf the loot of fresh killed people is one thing, but how about the balancing action of improve the loot of people not killed for a long time?

It’s not that WvW is already over-rewarded. And nerfing at one end without improving at the other is a overall nerf.

This is something I’d like to see. With visible bounty mark next to their rank.

Jessica Boettiger.2563:

DraganBlack.7864:

Jessica Boettiger.2563:

We will be removing the timer after death before killed players are worth XP in WvW.

is that only for xp or also for loot?

If a player is worth XP, they will also be worth loot. This also affects rallying, sigil stacks, on-kill procs, etc.

Thankyouuuuu. The worst part was not knowing if they died, or logged off or whatever…. actually no, not getting my 5 stacks was the worst part, so thankyou!

It was such a buzzkill to spend 60+ seconds in a hard fought 1v1 only to not have your kill acknowledged

It’s sure not working as intended. Killed two players at east side of SM and got nothing. If they can run to there and still have the debuff, the timer is too kitten long. They are as much as a threat as any other player, I don’t care that they just respawned three minutes ago.

Hmm, I appreciate the swift action, though couldn’t there be something in between, like just have recently dead players be worth 1/2 xp and -50% mf penalty (in regards to their personal drops) or something.

Well, doesn’t matter really. I guess this will be fine too. WvW loot was never too good.

Thank you for this change. I was becoming seriously concerned about it because of how it appeared to fundamentally affect the rally mechanic. I appreciate the increased communication from arenanet that has taken place prior to and following the September feature pack.

With regard to preventing spawn camping, there are some other things I would like to suggest. I think one or more of the following would greatly reduce the incidence of spawn camping while still not wholly evaporating fights for the starter tower.

1. A modification of Siegerazer’s buff to include increased toughness and significantly reduced condition duration.
2. When siegerazer arrives at tower, siege is instantly generated without control point capture
3. Work out kinks with generated siege. (I haven’t used it since patch; does the free ram still not allow you to get stacks on the door?)
4. Add boon removal to siegerazer to reduce the ability of players to enter bubbles with stability.