Guild Wars 2

Why in this game there is no DR on CCs?

1st stun = full duration
2nd stun = half duration
3rd stun = immune

Perma CC is not funny.

DR on CC is not needed so it isn’t in the game.

Can’t have DR on CC when AE has such a low player cap and WvW involves so many players. You need zergs to do more than throw shots at each other. They need to win with control too.

It can be overwhelming in smaller engagements, but this is why ANet should have spent more time spreading CC around so one class couldn’t provide numerous different types of it.

CreativeAnarchy.6324:

DR on CC is not needed so it isn’t in the game.

I think it is needed and should be in the game.

it is stupid to have the same form of cc applied over and over, since it doesn’t bring diversity but a brainless train of OP builds.

CreativeAnarchy.6324:

DR on CC is not needed so it isn’t in the game.

it IS needed…. i honestly don’t understand why it is still not implemented

CCs in this game would be fine and good if they came at high costs, sadly, quite few classes have access to strong CCs with low/no costs almost

Stability, Stunbreaks, and Saffron Bread/Lotus Root.

/thread

Galsia.4102:

Stability, Stunbreaks, and Saffron Bread/Lotus Root.

/thread

not every class has easy access to stability
stunbreaks usually have long CD, CCs are spammable though
food can’t be used in pvp yet mechanics still apply

Cynz.9437:

CreativeAnarchy.6324:

DR on CC is not needed so it isn’t in the game.

it IS needed…. i honestly don’t understand why it is still not implemented

CCs in this game would be fine and good if they came at high costs, sadly, quite few classes have access to strong CCs with low/no costs almost

It is NOT needed.

All you are asking for is things to be dumbed down further. I honestly don’t understand why people keep asking for that to happen.

There are ways to deal with it, use them. If you don’t, your fault.

Cynz.9437:

Galsia.4102:

Stability, Stunbreaks, and Saffron Bread/Lotus Root.

/thread

not every class has easy access to stability
stunbreaks usually have long CD, CCs are spammable though
food can’t be used in pvp yet mechanics still apply

Those that are lacking Stability have other means to negating CCs.

Thieves have a plethora of blinds, evades, stealths and shadowsteps (some only being pseudo-stunbreaks).

Mesmers have stealth, clones, and teleporting stunbreaks. Though not a stunbreak, Phase Retreat on a 10sec CD.

Engineers have blind, stealth, two (three technically, but it’s a racial TB skill) channeled blocks, Protection Injection, Stabilized Armor, and at the moment a boatload of vigor.

Cynz.9437:

Galsia.4102:

Stability, Stunbreaks, and Saffron Bread/Lotus Root.

/thread

not every class has easy access to stability
stunbreaks usually have long CD, CCs are spammable though
food can’t be used in pvp yet mechanics still apply

I’m not talking about PvP but WvW.

You do have food to help and runes if you choose to go that route.

If you are a class that doesn’t have enough stun breaks, you probably shouldn’t be in front of the zerg with the ones that can handle CC.

CreativeAnarchy.6324:

All you are asking for is things to be dumbed down further. I honestly don’t understand why people keep asking for that to happen.

Defends spammable CC’s but says the game shouldnt be dumbed down.

I am really confused right now.

I’m kinda sad that thieves only have stability on one elite with a 120 second cooldown. Not a bad elite, but… /sigh I miss the stability on demand I have on other characters.

Since I already wrote quite a bit about this in the previous thread (https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/wuv/wuv/Diminishing-return-system-for-wvw-cc-trains/first) I’ll keep this somewhat short.

DR on CC is not needed in GW2. Its that simple. Unlike other games, where certain classes did not have access to stunbreaks, every class in GW2 has access to some form of breaking CC’s, through stunbreaks or through stability.

Since every class has access to ways to break CC, getting hit by a single CC will not/should not influence the fight in a major way. Furthermore, in a 1v1 or even small group setting, the lack of DR on CC allows for experienced players to have an edge on new players. An experienced player will know when to dodge to avoid the stuns/cc and allowing them to not have to blow their stunbreaks. Implementing a DR on CC would close the gap even further between someone who has put in 2000 hours in the game and someone who has put in 50. IMO, if you have put in extra time and can make such skill plays as dodging CCs you should get an advantage over some new player who just eats all the CCs. A DR would take this out of play, since you could effectively eat the CC and just laugh as they try and CC you again.

For larger groups, my opinion and reasoning is addressed in the thread I linked above. Basically, DR is not needed since Anet allows for a boon to be applied that makes you immune to CC anyways. Once again, a DR would close the gap between skill play and mindless play. When you’re engaging a larger group (especially if you’re a smaller group) its extremely important to know when to pop your stability so you get maximum effectiveness out of it. If a DR was implemented, I would prob choose to just eat the first CC or two to gain immunity for the rest of the fight, since this immunity would basically be like perma-stability.

To sum it up, I do not support DR being implemented since it allows for bad play to be rewarded. In any game, good play should be rewarded while bad play is punished. If you’re being hit by a lot of CC and you’ve still failed to adapt, then you are the problem not the CC.

Galsia.4102:

Cynz.9437:

Galsia.4102:

Stability, Stunbreaks, and Saffron Bread/Lotus Root.

/thread

not every class has easy access to stability
stunbreaks usually have long CD, CCs are spammable though
food can’t be used in pvp yet mechanics still apply

Those that are lacking Stability have other means to negating CCs.

Thieves have a plethora of blinds, evades, stealths and shadowsteps (some only being pseudo-stunbreaks).

Mesmers have stealth, clones, and teleporting stunbreaks. Though not a stunbreak, Phase Retreat on a 10sec CD.

Engineers have blind, stealth, two (three technically, but it’s a racial TB skill) channeled blocks, Protection Injection, Stabilized Armor, and at the moment a boatload of vigor.

You kinda forgot the necro in your post. Please inform the black ping pong ball users out there how exactly to avoid chain CC’s when we have no blocks/evades/vigor or easily accessible stability. Not to mention no way whatsoever of disengaging from a fight.

Duplicate topic… They won’t add DR because dodge is a thing. And stun break.

We don’t need mechanics to equalize bad and good players.

Stability negates all CC (except Immobilize) for its duration. Stun breakers are your “trinkets.” You have access to both of them. Some classes more than others, which is inherent in their design.

Adding DRs to CC would require a complete overhaul to the game’s combat system from a design perspective. If it went in as-is it all CC would pretty much instantly become useless due to the abundance of stun breaks. And how would stability affect it?

You should never be immune as is the class war can get to immune level of counter cc. On-top of that bleeds and burns are under cc to should we make them less and less stronger or go though the pain of separating them. There are stuns and knock backs these are in there own part of the “cc” in gw2 but there is a hard counter to them that is stability and in many ways stability is far stronger then it should be because the only counter to stability is boon removal and only a few classes have easy access to such ability.

CreativeAnarchy.6324:

DR on CC is not needed so it isn’t in the game.

DR is not needed but there is a Hammer Train meta right now. I dont understand.

The problem is the absurd amount of push, pull and interrupt spam in this game. And stability is a black or white mechanic, you are immune or you are dead, too simple. In wvw you need to go in teams with guardians with a lot of aoe stability (0/0/10/30/30), and if your group stability is on CD you need to feint back out of hammer train to gain time for stability up.

CreativeAnarchy.6324:

DR on CC is not needed so it isn’t in the game.

even in zerg v zerg or blob v blob, stunlock warriors aint fun.
There is a limit, and it has long since been crossed. This suggestion, is probably one of the more reasonable one, short of nerfing warrior CC

Prysin.8542:

CreativeAnarchy.6324:

DR on CC is not needed so it isn’t in the game.

even in zerg v zerg or blob v blob, stunlock warriors aint fun.
There is a limit, and it has long since been crossed. This suggestion, is probably one of the more reasonable one, short of nerfing warrior CC

Because dumbing down the entire game mechanics due to one weapon set on one class is reasonable… Have a look at the warrior patch notes preview though: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Dec-10th-Balance-Preview-Updated-Nov-6th/first

Tommyknocker.6089:

You kinda forgot the necro in your post. Please inform the black ping pong ball users out there how exactly to avoid chain CC’s when we have no blocks/evades/vigor or easily accessible stability. Not to mention no way whatsoever of disengaging from a fight.

Direct counters to CCs? No, not really. Though they do have an overwhelming and unrivaled condi-pressure to ensure the threat never reaches them. If that seems to fail, they’ve got a metric f@#k-ton of EHP for back up.

While also available to everyone else, -40% stun duration & +70 Toughness or -20% damage while disabled & -20% Condi Duration food.

we indeed have dodge, stunbreaks, foods etc but gotta be honest, CCs are really too much..
sometimes seems to play pinball and it’s kinda stupid

Galsia.4102:

Tommyknocker.6089:

You kinda forgot the necro in your post. Please inform the black ping pong ball users out there how exactly to avoid chain CC’s when we have no blocks/evades/vigor or easily accessible stability. Not to mention no way whatsoever of disengaging from a fight.

Direct counters to CCs? No, not really. Though they do have an overwhelming and unrivaled condi-pressure to ensure the threat never reaches them. If that seems to fail, they’ve got a metric f@#k-ton of EHP for back up.

While also available to everyone else, -40% stun duration & +70 Toughness or -20% damage while disabled & -20% Condi Duration food.

Please roll a necro and then comment. I am not trying to be rude here, but only one build dumbfire/terror will give enough pressure to keep some players (usually the bad ones) from you for any length of time. Unrivaled? Not really, as many other classes, engi, mesmers and yes thieves have the ability to put as much if not more pressure on you as a necro can. Although we have a ton of health, it does not matter when you are held and pummeled upon while watching your #!#^ ton of health dissolve before your eyes. And yes the food and rune/sigils are of course available to everyone, the fact that a necro HAS to use them to be on par with other classes that have easier means to mitigate/disengage is the true issue.

As to the Op, I agree, there needs to be a form of DR associated with CC, if only to stop ANet from using so bloody much of it in the PvE world.

Edit to add: There is a reason that everyone targets the necro in a group and it’s not due to the fact that we are the most dangerous. It is due to the fact that we are easy badges. And even if you run across a necro with greater skill than most you can always leave the fight knowing full well we cannot follow you.

CD on stunbreaker >> CD on CC
Dodges are limited and become useless if 1 CC hits you
Stability last few seconds.
That means you can avoid/break the first wave.

Dealing with a train of 5 – 6 hammer warriors is so much fun… Oh wait, maybe they are skillful players with 2000+ hours played, since they can press F1.

I hear if you dodge or use stability CC diminishes in returns by an amazing factor of 100%.

Daendur.2357:

CD on stunbreaker >> CD on CC
Dodges are limited and become useless if 1 CC hits you
Stability last few seconds.
That means you can avoid/break the first wave.

Dealing with a train of 5 – 6 hammer warriors is so much fun… Oh wait, maybe they are skillful players with 2000+ hours played, since they can press F1.

I destroyed a BT necro that had no stability or any form of stunbreaks the other day. Maybe you should stop kittening and l2stunbreak.

Writetyper.1985:

I hear if you dodge or use stability CC diminishes in returns by an amazing factor of 100%.

except CD on CCs is very short while CD on stability and dodge is quite long in comparison

it would be fine and all not to have DR in this game if CCs actually came at high costs and had long CD, but they don’t… many CCs in this game are spammy (not to mention stupid immob changes that prevent you from dodging for 30+ sec)

UltraHiDef.4809:

Daendur.2357:

CD on stunbreaker >> CD on CC
Dodges are limited and become useless if 1 CC hits you
Stability last few seconds.
That means you can avoid/break the first wave.

Dealing with a train of 5 – 6 hammer warriors is so much fun… Oh wait, maybe they are skillful players with 2000+ hours played, since they can press F1.

I destroyed a BT necro that had no stability or any form of stunbreaks the other day. Maybe you should stop kittening and l2stunbreak.

and why should i know that BT necro ?
Maybe you should l2readsignatures …

Writetyper.1985:

I hear if you dodge or use stability CC diminishes in returns by an amazing factor of 100%.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Earthshaker

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Lightning_Reflexes
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/%22Protect_Me%22
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Quickening_Zephyr
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Signet_of_Renewal

i hear 10s is less than 40 … and even than 60….
i picked up a random class.

I’m just gonna go out on a limb here and assume you’re referring to experiences on your Thief since they have garbage Stability.

Daendur.2357:

CD on stunbreaker >> CD on CC

Infiltrator’s Return.

Daendur.2357:

Dodges are limited and become useless if 1 CC hits you

Bountiful Thief, Vigorous Recovery, Feline Grace, Roll for Initiative, Signet of Agility, Withdraw, Sigil of Energy, Flanking Strike, Disability Shot, and lolDeath Blossom.

Then there’s that whole completely shutting down their build with just Black Powder, but that’s not really important.

Daendur.2357:

Writetyper.1985:

I hear if you dodge or use stability CC diminishes in returns by an amazing factor of 100%.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Earthshaker

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Lightning_Reflexes
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/%22Protect_Me%22
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Quickening_Zephyr
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Signet_of_Renewal

i hear 10s is less than 40 … and even than 60….
i picked up a random class.

You dropped this:
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Rampage_As_One

But really, what’s 20 seconds of Stability going to do against a class dependent on stun-locking you?

Daendur.2357:

Writetyper.1985:

I hear if you dodge or use stability CC diminishes in returns by an amazing factor of 100%.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Earthshaker

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Lightning_Reflexes
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/%22Protect_Me%22
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Quickening_Zephyr
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Signet_of_Renewal

i hear 10s is less than 40 … and even than 60….
i picked up a random class.

Earthshaker is one easy skill to dodge. If you can’t, then you merely suck.

Galsia.4102:

I’m just gonna go out on a limb here and assume you’re referring to experiences on your Thief since they have garbage Stability.

No i don’t.
I’m referring to my experience in group fights. Where you actually have to face a melee train made of hammer warriors supported by backline necros that fear you, coupled with some staff eles with static field.
Everything put inside a messy explosion of colorful light effects.

Galsia.4102:

Bountiful Thief, Vigorous Recovery, Feline Grace, Roll for Initiative, Signet of Agility, Withdraw, Sigil of Energy, Flanking Strike, Disability Shot, and lolDeath Blossom.

nice build … so 35 trait points are gone (20 in condition) where to put others? you may go for condition and you bring a sigil that gives you precision…
Roll for initiative has a 60s cooldown
Bountiful Theft + Vigorous recovery are going to be nerfed
And you are carrying 3 weapon sets … wow.

UltraHiDef.4809:

Earthshaker is one easy skill to dodge. If you can’t, then you merely suck.

Yeah, indeed everything is 1vs1, right ?
In a group fight skills aren’t so easy to read…

only DR what i miss is the kd system from gw1. you cant cc somebody while under the effect of an other cc. the kd warrior was one rule with the highest skill requirement.

Daendur.2357:

Why in this game there is no DR on CCs?

1st stun = full duration
2nd stun = half duration
3rd stun = immune

Perma CC is not funny.

This. Or maybe
1st stun = full duration
2nd stun = daze

Or perhaps the good system from guild wars1 where you are immune to stuns when already stunned. In any case, something has to be done about this abuse of the broken CC system.

Daendur.2357:

CreativeAnarchy.6324:

DR on CC is not needed so it isn’t in the game.

I think it is needed and should be in the game.

it is stupid to have the same form of cc applied over and over, since it doesn’t bring diversity but a brainless train of OP builds.

Which is working as inteded since its anet design philisophy.
Devon had nicer words for it, something along the lines of “no mechanics that lower the returns if there are more players”

Slomo.1029:

Devon had nicer words for it, something along the lines of “no mechanics that lower the returns if there are more players”

like condition capped to 25 ?
or AoE target capped to 5 ?

Galsia.4102:

I’m just gonna go out on a limb here and assume you’re referring to experiences on your Thief since they have garbage Stability.

Daendur.2357:

No i don’t.
I’m referring to my experience in group fights. Where you actually have to face a melee train made of hammer warriors supported by backline necros that fear you, coupled with some staff eles with static field.
Everything put inside a messy explosion of colorful light effects.

“No you don’t”… have garbage Stability on your Thief? Did you maybe mean, “No I’m not [referring to experiences on my Thief]?” In which case you failed to tell me which class you’re playing. That leaves the other class in your Signature up for usage, which in that case means, 18 seconds of group stability. Seeing as you’re surrounding yourself with allies so your individual mistakes aren’t as obvious, just grab a few more Guardians and chain group Stability while 1-spamming Staff like a true king of the zerg.

Galsia.4102:

Bountiful Thief, Vigorous Recovery, Feline Grace, Roll for Initiative, Signet of Agility, Withdraw, Sigil of Energy, Flanking Strike, Disability Shot, and lolDeath Blossom.

Daendur.2357:

nice build … so 35 trait points are gone (20 in condition) where to put others? you may go for condition and you bring a sigil that gives you precision…
Roll for initiative has a 60s cooldown
Bountiful Theft + Vigorous recovery are going to be nerfed
And you are carrying 3 weapon sets … wow.

I assumed you didn’t know all the dodging capabilities of a Thief considering you’re the type of person who complains on the forums about other classes. Anyways, I would have thought it was obvious I was listing them all for the sake of picking and choosing a few, not all of them. So, what is your Thief build, and please don’t say P/P Zerker because that’ll make this thread that much funnier.

Arguing about cooldowns is a bad argument. CC cooldowns need to be shorter than stunbreak cooldowns if you actually want Offense to be stronger than Defense, which you tend to have in a game to make sure it ends.

Proven.2854:

Arguing about cooldowns is a bad argument. CC cooldowns need to be shorter than stunbreak cooldowns if you actually want Offense to be stronger than Defense, which you tend to have in a game to make sure it ends.

yeah but Ccs in this game are spammable actually not just short CD

Galsia.4102:

words

you don’t deserve a reply since you are just making statements based on what you think “I” do and not on what the gameplay is/can be in different situations.

Cynz.9437:

Proven.2854:

Arguing about cooldowns is a bad argument. CC cooldowns need to be shorter than stunbreak cooldowns if you actually want Offense to be stronger than Defense, which you tend to have in a game to make sure it ends.

yeah but Ccs in this game are spammable actually not just short CD

Then cc the ppl who are ccing you? I images this is mainly aimed at the War class its not the fact that they have lowish cd cc its about how hard it is to land cc on them and make them stick. Its counter cc that is the problem atm.

Proven.2854:

Arguing about cooldowns is a bad argument. CC cooldowns need to be shorter than stunbreak cooldowns if you actually want Offense to be stronger than Defense, which you tend to have in a game to make sure it ends.

CC is both defense and offense though. CC is in fact one of the main defences of any stunspam warrior or melee train.

This is why we have stun breakers and condition removals. It would only be OP if there was no counter to it. But there is.

Daendur.2357:

Galsia.4102:

words

you don’t deserve a reply since you are just making statements based on what you think “I” do and not on what the gameplay is/can be in different situations.

Well, actually, that is a reply.

You have all the tools available you just refuse to learn how to use them. You’d just rather have other equally inept people agree with your horrible ideas.

Enjoy your circlejerk I guess.

Galsia.4102:

Direct counters to CCs? No, not really. Though they do have an overwhelming and unrivaled condi-pressure to ensure the threat never reaches them. If that seems to fail, they’ve got a metric f@#k-ton of EHP for back up.

While also available to everyone else, -40% stun duration & +70 Toughness or -20% damage while disabled & -20% Condi Duration food.

Also http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Foot_in_the_Grave

Get into a hammer train where all warriors run hammers and the necros strip your stability. Guess you are kind of screwed, huh?

Or you could run in an organized group where you have guardians with multiple sources of stability.

Organization + skill should always win, end of story. GvG is about synergy; all the people asking for DR are just asking for devs to nerf the skill gap and need to stop.

Jorjeis.2169:

Or you could run in an organized group where you have guardians with multiple sources of stability.

Organization + skill should always win, end of story. GvG is about synergy; all the people asking for DR are just asking for devs to nerf the skill gap and need to stop.

But even then, you’ve got what? Stand Your Ground (5 seconds, 30 sec cooldown, breaks stun), Hallowed Ground (10 sec, AoE, 6 sec cast, 80 sec cooldown), and Virtue of Courage (Only if you get the Master trait, 3 sec, 30 sec cooldown) are all Guardians have for that crucial boon which can be removed by a Necromancer. 3 things that grant 5-man groups stability that can easily be removed and do nothing against a group of 15 warriors with at least 2 stuns and a knockdown if they only equip hammers. Just thought I should put that down.

Madora.9340:

But even then, you’ve got what? Stand Your Ground (5 seconds, 60 sec cooldown, breaks stun), Hallowed Ground (10 sec, AoE, 6 sec cast, 80 sec cooldown), and Virtue of Courage (Only if you get the Master trait, 3 sec, 30 sec cooldown) are all Guardians have for that crucial boon which can be removed by a Necromancer. 3 things that grant 5-man groups stability that can easily be removed and do nothing against a group of 15 warriors with at least 2 stuns and a knockdown if they only equip hammers. Just thought I should put that down.

Not sure which guardians you’re running with, but I might question them about their lies about the Stand Your Ground cd. http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Stand_your_ground. Not only that, but I’d be asking them why they aren’t running shouts cd reduction if you’re having stability trouble.