Guild Wars 2

EDIT: The increase of arrow cart damage on players moved fights from the objectives to the fields. This is an idea to address how to bring the fights back to the objectives

I am sure many are used to the " reduce ac damage on players" threads that we see frequently in the forums, but what if we combated it a different way instead? To use siege against players would still be more powerful than fighting with your character alone, BUT they have to make a hard choice to do so. They would instead have to choose between more damage or no LOOT or PPK for doing so. If siege damage on players gave the player and their server no loot or PPK for using it on their opponents instead of outright fighting with their character, it would no longer reward lazy game play, and would not be the first thing people choose to do when they see an opponent.

This would still allow players to even the odds, while at the same time reduce the number of players doing it so that it is no longer an obstacle to having good fights. If Loot and PPK is limited to fighting other players without the use of siege it encourages fun fights and encourages players to learn to play their characters instead. When you see entire zergs jumping on siege inside a tower because there are 5 people outside, it is getting to the point of being ridiculous.

It would be possible though to add siege damage, PPK and loot for players using siege as part of the outnumbered buff, so that if they are actually outnumbered, it could still apply, but is removed outside of that.

What do you think the pros and cons are to removing PPK and loot for siege damage on players?

I think the presence of siege enhances the feeling that we are in a war and not some barbaric all out slugging of each other in a vast open plain with no structures and no other motives. Besides, siege itself is very costly (the ones that are effective) and this balances itself out to some extent. So nope, I don’t vote for less features in game.

Tbh, people that sit on siege all day don’t really care about loot since they don’t really get loot unless people are kittened enough to sit under AC fire.
Also you would be denying loot to outnumbered players trying to defend a structure from a far large group (somenthing you’ll normally can only achieve by the use of siege).
And what if a pug drops an AC that get built in the middle of a zerg fight? That will deny an entire zerg loot just because some random troll dropped an AC?

Jeknar.6184:

Tbh, people that sit on siege all day don’t really care about loot since they don’t really get loot unless people are kittened enough to sit under AC fire.
Also you would be denying loot to outnumbered players trying to defend a structure from a far large group (somenthing you’ll normally can only achieve by the use of siege).
And what if a pug drops an AC that get built in the middle of a zerg fight? That will deny an entire zerg loot just because some random troll dropped an AC?

Loot and PPK for siege could be added to the outnumbered Buff, so if they are actually outnumbered it would still apply. As for siege trolls, I was told that if players were building usesless siege just to aggravate other players we were supposed to report them for botting and a dev would come watch them and ban them if they found they were actually trolling. That is what we have been doing for years to address that issue.

What zergs already do if someone drops open field siege like that, they call out the guy who did it in chat and move to another area to fight instead.

Roxanne.6140:

I think the presence of siege enhances the feeling that we are in a war and not some barbaric all out slugging of each other in a vast open plain with no structures and no other motives. Besides, siege itself is very costly (the ones that are effective) and this balances itself out to some extent. So nope, I don’t vote for less features in game.

Siege damage to other siege should still count as WXP, and it would not reduce the need for siege used on structures or against other siege. Siege vs Siege is still very much a part of the game and would not remove siege from the game at all.

Jeknar.6184:

Tbh, people that sit on siege all day don’t really care about loot since they don’t really get loot unless people are kittened enough to sit under AC fire.
Also you would be denying loot to outnumbered players trying to defend a structure from a far large group (somenthing you’ll normally can only achieve by the use of siege).
And what if a pug drops an AC that get built in the middle of a zerg fight? That will deny an entire zerg loot just because some random troll dropped an AC?

That’s not true. I get loot on my cannons and loot from my superior ACs. It’s not a lot but it’s still some. I get more when I am on my characters but at least I still get loot. How do you know 1 person doesn’t drop bags to more than1 player anyway

If they didn’t want people to die by ac’s they wouldn’t put them in the game. Wvw is not about killing enemy zergs in open field fights. You can make fun of people who use ac’s all you want to kill zergs but that is their intended purpose. Wvw isn’t a Zerg vs Zerg game mode. It is a capture and defense mode. I do enjoy open field fights but they aren’t going to change loot systems because you don’t like being killed by seige

Roxanne.6140:

Jeknar.6184:

Tbh, people that sit on siege all day don’t really care about loot since they don’t really get loot unless people are kittened enough to sit under AC fire.
Also you would be denying loot to outnumbered players trying to defend a structure from a far large group (somenthing you’ll normally can only achieve by the use of siege).
And what if a pug drops an AC that get built in the middle of a zerg fight? That will deny an entire zerg loot just because some random troll dropped an AC?

That’s not true. I get loot on my cannons and loot from my superior ACs. It’s not a lot but it’s still some. I get more when I am on my characters but at least I still get loot. How do you know 1 person doesn’t drop bags to more than1 player anyway

And if they limited to actually being outnumbered, it could still be used as a “leveling the playing field” mechanic without rewarding a zerg for getting on siege against the 5 players outside.

Sweet Sanity.8593:

If they didn’t want people to die by ac’s they wouldn’t put them in the game. Wvw is not about killing enemy zergs in open field fights. You can make fun of people who use ac’s all you want to kill zergs but that is their intended purpose. Wvw isn’t a Zerg vs Zerg game mode. It is a capture and defense mode. I do enjoy open field fights but they aren’t going to change loot systems because you don’t like being killed by seige

You would still be able to die by acs. I did not suggest removing the siege damage on players. If they limit the rewards to the outnumbered buff, it does not reward the zerg for using siege against the few , while still rewarding the few against the many.

I am not discussing " me not wanting to get killed by siege" I am discussing the mechanic that sent the players from the objectives to the fields in the first place. The objective of WvW isn’t to fight in the field, it is to fight over the objectives. I want to bring the fights to the objectives again by addressing what ran people off in the first place.

When Siege vs Player is what moved fights from the objectives to the field, how do you propose they bring the fights back to the objectives?

You want to make it so people get less loot for defending with seige that is intended for defending things. That makes no sense.

Sweet Sanity.8593:

You want to make it so people get less loot for defending with seige that is intended for defending things. That makes no sense.

I would also like them to make the walls actually useful as well though. It should not be as easy to pull people from walls and fighting from walls should give them a range advantage and the walls should actually offer a bit more protection than they currently do. Encouraging players to fight with their characters to defend rather than jump on siege as the go to response is what I want to try to achieve.

It was when they increased arrow cart damage that players stopped fighting in the objectives, and they have never done anything to offset the ramifications of that. What could they do to bring the fights back to the objectives when it was the Siege issues that made people leave in the first place?

Not every character or class can use ranged weapons as a viable option. I run mostly all melee builds on my wvw toons. Some characters don’t do damage at all, and can’t defend without seige. They shouldn’t be punished while people who pew pew from walls get buffed

Sweet Sanity.8593:

Not every character or class can use ranged weapons as a viable option. I run mostly all melee builds on my wvw toons. Some characters don’t do damage at all, and can’t defend without seige. They shouldn’t be punished while people who pew pew from walls get buffed

So what would you suggest to bring the fights back to the objectives, when it is the AC damage that ran them off in the first place? How do you address the issue of entire zergs jumping on siege against the few instead of fighting? These are some of the issues that have to be addressed to revitalize WvW for the long term.

If players will not fight over objectives it is no longer an objective based game mode.

If ac’s stop you then treb or cata. There are a dozen ways to take most objectives, many of which can’t be stopped by ac’s

lil devils x.6071:

Sweet Sanity.8593:

Not every character or class can use ranged weapons as a viable option. I run mostly all melee builds on my wvw toons. Some characters don’t do damage at all, and can’t defend without seige. They shouldn’t be punished while people who pew pew from walls get buffed

Don’t you think defenders need an advantage? lol. What’s a castle if there is no advantage when it comes to defending it? Might as well designate plots of flat land as castle, put some textbox label over the grass “castle”

So what would you suggest to bring the fights back to the objectives, when it is the AC damage that ran them off in the first place? How do you address the issue of entire zergs jumping on siege against the few instead of fighting? These are some of the issues that have to be addressed to revitalize WvW for the long term.

If players will not fight over objectives it is no longer an objective based game mode.

If you have that deep pockets to award every member of your zerg with a siege, then you really need to be rewarded with whatever sadistic joy you get from shooting small groups of bunnies

How about making it a bit more “realistic”? The rate of fire of a “real” arrow cart is very slow; they had to reload all those arrows. So one way is to leave it as is but just increase the CD time to 15 or 30 seconds between volleys.

I don’t sit in towers with 30 people waiting to ac a group of 5 to death and laugh at them. That is silly. But if 20 people attack a tower and I’m the only one in there I shouldn’t get denied loot for not running out there and killing them. U can’t go to the outnumbered buff either because I could have a 50 man group attacking bay while I defend the tower alone. U can’t deny everyone loot because of the actions of some people who abuse seige

Sweet Sanity.8593:

I don’t sit in towers with 30 people waiting to ac a group of 5 to death and laugh at them. That is silly. But if 20 people attack a tower and I’m the only one in there I shouldn’t get denied loot for not running out there and killing them. U can’t go to the outnumbered buff either because I could have a 50 man group attacking bay while I defend the tower alone. U can’t deny everyone loot because of the actions of some people who abuse seige

We have already seen the end game of this though is the issue. Simply because you don’t do that does not mean there are not servers that DO. Anything the individual can do the blob can do and does do in mass. If there is nothing prohibiting the zerg from siege humping instead of fighting .. anyone.. that is exactly what happens in the end if it is left in game as a " win" mechanic. The issue is the current dynamic isn’t working to bring players to the objectives to fight, it is making them not care about the objectives anymore at all due to it. That has to be addressed or the game mode will continue to decline.

atticus.5284:

How about making it a bit more “realistic”? The rate of fire of a “real” arrow cart is very slow; they had to reload all those arrows. So one way is to leave it as is but just increase the CD time to 15 or 30 seconds between volleys.

That may be a good option too, in addition, make it so they cannot build as much siege in an area to limit the number of players that can get on siege at once. The amount of siege that can be built in a tower is still ridiculous.

It might work that way in your server but even if s place is seiged all to hell if you know what you are doing you can take ever last bit of it out. It takes longer yes, but it is supposed to take longer to take defended objectives. If you don’t know how to counter seige then you don’t deserve to take the objective

Sweet Sanity.8593:

It might work that way in your server but even if s place is seiged all to hell if you know what you are doing you can take ever last bit of it out. It takes longer yes, but it is supposed to take longer to take defended objectives. If you don’t know how to counter seige then you don’t deserve to take the objective

LOL, I am on Maguuma. Players refuse to look at siege little lone get on it. HAHA! My guild is known for being the guild that is expected to take out fully defended, fully upgraded, sieged all to hell keeps. That is what we do because many could not. The thing is it is not fun to spend 6 hours countersieging and not getting good fights due to this mechanic. Guilds want to have fun when they play and get good fights, but it is no fun when you take out a keeps siege and get in there only to have everyone jump out and not fight when you do. If we killed their siege, they just left instead of fight. Talk about an underwhelming experience. The all walls down all gates down no siege brawls in lords room for hours are so much more fun. That way, when you win, you felt like you earned it, and when you lose, at least it was a good fight.

I am discussing what caused the decline of T1 and what led to the Overstacking of BG. YB is world renowned for their zerg running into a tower and jumping on siege when there were only 5 players outside. That is why no matter what tier you go to or what server, most agree that was the most toxic game play they have experienced.

Taking defended fortified things isn’t supposed to be easy. If you wanna just blob all the things don’t let them get fortified or go after easier things. Wvw isn’t about fights as much as you all want it to be. It’s a capture and defense mode.

I enjoy fights, but it’s not what wvw is about.

As a solution however they do need to make an arena or special map for fighting like that, not change what is already there to something you want that not everyone does

Sweet Sanity.8593:

Taking defended fortified things isn’t supposed to be easy. If you wanna just blob all the things don’t let them get fortified or go after easier things. Wvw isn’t about fights as much as you all want it to be. It’s a capture and defense mode.

I enjoy fights, but it’s not what wvw is about.

As a solution however they do need to make an arena or special map for fighting like that, not change what is already there to something you want that not everyone does

We want to FIGHT OVER OBJECTIVES, and yes that IS what WvW is supposed to be about. Not to blob anything down is what I just specifically asked for. All walls down ,all doors down, and all 3 servers queued up in a lords room fight is the best game play this game has to offer. Fighting outnumbered against 2 other servers for hours is the best the game has to offer. The objective is the prize for winning that fight.

PvD, Killing NPC’s and get chest = PvE and not WvW at all. You do not even need opponents in the game mode to do that, so why have that as a part of a massively multiplayer PvP game mode? 99% of the game is PvE, they can do that there instead of in the only large scale PvP game mode in the game.

I enjoy those giant three way smc fights too. But not every server has groups to fight like that in every objective we want to defend, nor would I want every single fight to be like that. Nerfing ac’s does nothing to make that happen more regardless.

if I have 5 people I should be rewarded for defending against 20

lil devils x.6071:

Sweet Sanity.8593:

Not every character or class can use ranged weapons as a viable option. I run mostly all melee builds on my wvw toons. Some characters don’t do damage at all, and can’t defend without seige. They shouldn’t be punished while people who pew pew from walls get buffed

So what would you suggest to bring the fights back to the objectives, when it is the AC damage that ran them off in the first place? How do you address the issue of entire zergs jumping on siege against the few instead of fighting? These are some of the issues that have to be addressed to revitalize WvW for the long term.

If players will not fight over objectives it is no longer an objective based game mode.

i’d suggest learning to counter siege. most acs on walls can be aoe’ed or players pulled and nuked to death.. there used to be a time where players would build trebs and take out as much siege as they could before taking the wall down or bringing the fight to them when the players came for the trebs. this tactic is rarely used nowadays because most players left in this mode only like to take easy objectives and if there is 1 ac or 10 acs they move on to next empty objective.

oh and about adding it to the outnumber icon only. no thanks. defenders are a rare thing these days and even if you do not have the outnumber icon you can still be outnumbered defending because everyone else is off looking for an easy objectives to take.. if a player is silly enough to die from siege they should drop loot and be worth points.

briggah.7910:

lil devils x.6071:

Sweet Sanity.8593:

Not every character or class can use ranged weapons as a viable option. I run mostly all melee builds on my wvw toons. Some characters don’t do damage at all, and can’t defend without seige. They shouldn’t be punished while people who pew pew from walls get buffed

So what would you suggest to bring the fights back to the objectives, when it is the AC damage that ran them off in the first place? How do you address the issue of entire zergs jumping on siege against the few instead of fighting? These are some of the issues that have to be addressed to revitalize WvW for the long term.

If players will not fight over objectives it is no longer an objective based game mode.

i’d suggest learning to counter siege. most acs on walls can be aoe’ed or players pulled and nuked to death.. there used to be a time where players would build trebs and take out as much siege as they could before taking the wall down or bringing the fight to them when the players came for the trebs. this tactic is rarely used nowadays because most players left in this mode only like to take easy objectives and if there is 1 ac or 10 acs they move on to next empty objective.

oh and about adding it to the outnumber icon only. no thanks. defenders are a rare thing these days and even if you do not have the outnumber icon you can still be outnumbered defending because everyone else is off looking for an easy objectives to take.. if a player is silly enough to die from siege they should drop loot and be worth points.

You are trying to tell a leader of [KILL](The guild that servers call on and pay to take out the worst possibly, fully upgraded , fully zerg defended, sieged all to hell keeps. THAT is what we are actually known for..) how to counter siege. I know all about siege and counter siege. We have been doing that for years with servers saying " oh it’s okay if we let it upgrade because Kill can handle taking that out." WE are the people they expect to do that, and I am telling you it makes the game BORING. When you get in there, the zerg runs off and won’t even fight because they think they need siege to do so.

Players are not looking for easy objectives, they are looking for players to actually FIGHT for the objectives not use siege and if their siege gets blown up run away. That is lame as hell. We want the 6 hour all out brawls winner takes all siegeless fights to feel like we are actually having fun.

lil devils x.6071:

EDIT: The increase of arrow cart damage on players moved fights from the objectives to the fields. This is an idea to address how to bring the fights back to the objectives

I am sure many are used to the " reduce ac damage on players" threads that we see frequently in the forums, but what if we combated it a different way instead? To use siege against players would still be more powerful than fighting with your character alone, BUT they have to make a hard choice to do so. They would instead have to choose between more damage or no LOOT or PPK for doing so. If siege damage on players gave the player and their server no loot or PPK for using it on their opponents instead of outright fighting with their character, it would no longer reward lazy game play, and would not be the first thing people choose to do when they see an opponent.

This would still allow players to even the odds, while at the same time reduce the number of players doing it so that it is no longer an obstacle to having good fights. If Loot and PPK is limited to fighting other players without the use of siege it encourages fun fights and encourages players to learn to play their characters instead. When you see entire zergs jumping on siege inside a tower because there are 5 people outside, it is getting to the point of being ridiculous.

It would be possible though to add siege damage and loot for players using siege as part of the outnumbered buff, so that if they are actually outnumbered, it could still apply, but is removed outside of that.

What do you think the pros and cons are to removing PPK and loot for siege damage on players?

I see a problem with PPK from entirely different perspective, it is either an outright bug, or unintended, or design oversight, something along those lines and I think should be brought up to A-nets attention, but siege use is not a part of it. Mind anyone curious, I’m a firm advocate for more PPK and less PPT, but not as it functions right now.

My general beef with it and as I am perceiving it is as follows:

1. PPK is awarded just for “tagging” a target (like a PVE mob at a PVE event), not killing them, and EVERYONE in the entire zergs seems to gain and contribute to the score point total.

2. What it does, is that lets say you have 20 vs 50, 2 zergs, one is vastly outnumbered. The 50 size zerg downs and kills 10 people from the 20 size zerg due to sheer numbers before they can get away. The 20 size zerg kills 2 people out of the 50 (again due to outnumbered) and the total score, assuming each side gets only 2 base PPK per kill, ends up awarding 1000 points to the score of the players who already have a gigantic advantage and only 80 points to the players who are grossly outnumbered.

One of the whole issues of even having a score system overhaul, was to bring this more inline, yet when you look at the scores awarded, it is exactly opposite overall effect, hence, unintended or bugged.

PPK should never have been blown out of proportions in favor of the vastly larger zerg, it needs to be exactly opposite to at least somewhat reflect the level of challenge, right now, it rewards the lack thereof.

Totally agree that siege play sucks and it’s over used. But its a necessary evil. It’s the only real counter play to combat large gaps between group numbers. Until zerg busting is reintroduced some other way, ac’s in particular need to stay as is.

The change your suggesting would take a lot away from defenders & scouts which are both rare these days. Changing it so these kinds of players get no loot or ppt for their defensive contributions(who already don’t really get much loot or ppk) would deter a lot of people from continuing to do so, making them join the ktrain blobs which are the one the largest problems of wvw.

That said, if they made wvw, as you envision it, without doors and pve mobs to hold objectives, it would be a lot more enjoyable. A conquest style capture/holding system for each objective that could be contested at any time would split up the player base stop the ktrains, and force fights both small and large scale. I can get behind this idea.

1 hour of face rubbing on a gate while 6 ac shoot your head… Yeah sooo much fun. The only “fun” siege is the golem. If they want more siege wars add more golem like things

How about no to this entire thread.

Instead of penalizing the defenders we should focus on how to make blobbing easier and more profitable. Lol With any luck we’ll run wvw into the ground!

#MakeBlobbingGreatAgain2016

Dhemize.8649:

How about no to this entire thread.

Instead of penalizing the defenders we should focus on how to make blobbing easier and more profitable. Lol With any luck we’ll run wvw into the ground!

#MakeBlobbingGreatAgain2016

Defending is the easiest thing to do in the game, that is why you can have all walls down, all gates down and have have both opposing servers map Queues up in your keep and fight them both off. You’re right next to your spawn, if you can’t defend right next to your spawn, you don’t deserve to keep it. You do not actually need siege damage on players to defend, they have to run across the whole map to get there and are already at a disadvantage.

When you go to WvW, you should be prepared to fight outnumbered all the time, if you are not set up for that change your build. That is why you carry multiple sets of armor on you at all times and switch builds according to what you are trying to do. You don’t whine about the zergs, you fight them, that is what makes WvW fun.

As is bolded in the first post, if you are actually outnumbered, an outnumbered buff could impact the damage PPK and loot on siege to help balance. A zerg inside a keep on siege doesn’t need help. Siege makes it so players blob up to attack objectives in the first place..

lil devils x.6071:

Dhemize.8649:

How about no to this entire thread.

Instead of penalizing the defenders we should focus on how to make blobbing easier and more profitable. Lol With any luck we’ll run wvw into the ground!

#MakeBlobbingGreatAgain2016

Defending is the easiest thing to do in the game, that is why you can have all walls down, all gates down and have have both opposing servers map Queues up in your keep and fight them both off. Your right next to your spawn, if you can’t defend right next to your spawn, you don’t deserve to keep it. You do not actually need siege damage on players to defend, they have to run across the whole map to get there and are already at a disadvantage.

When you go to WvW, you should be prepared to fight outnumbered all the time, if you are not set up for that change your build. That is why you carry multiple sets of armor on you at all times and switch builds according to what you are trying to do. You don’t whine about the zergs, you fight them, that is what makes WvW fun.

As is bolded in the first post, if you are actually outnumbered, an outnumbered buff could impact the damage PPK and loot on siege to help balance. A zerg inside a keep on siege doesn’t need help.

Sorry, I must have missed the part where you were only talking about the defender’s main keep and nothing else.

I’ll also point out that if you are carrying around so much gear to equip for the occasion then you would have no issue tanking up for ACs while you man 5 rams. Lol

Dhemize.8649:

I’ll also point out that if you are carrying around so much gear to equip for the occasion then you would have no issue tanking up for ACs while you man 5 rams. Lol

6* rams and no problem tanking up at all, it is just boring as hell to have everyone run out of the keep when we get in there and kill their siege instead of actually fight. The Siege vs player is what makes it MORE blobby, not less and makes players think they can’t fight without it.

Siege damage on siege is fine. You take down 6 rams with a superior treb easy.

lil devils x.6071:

Dhemize.8649:

I’ll also point out that if you are carrying around so much gear to equip for the occasion then you would have no issue tanking up for ACs while you man 5 rams. Lol

6* rams and no problem tanking up at all, it is just boring as hell to have everyone run out of the keep when we get in there and kill their siege instead of actually fight. The Siege vs player is what makes it MORE blobby, not less and makes players think they can’t fight without it.

Siege damage on siege is fine. You take down 6 rams with a superior treb easy.

If you bust in and find nobody inside then that’s a sign that they don’t believe they stand a fighting chance, which indicates that you’re running fatter than you think and need to slim down.

I’ve been on both sides of the blob vs siege arms race and both are garbage. Punishing one does not solve it. The idle players at spawn, the server style of running smaller groups instead of an omniblob, and other factors not considered makes this a poor decision that only takes away from another player’s game because they don’t play your way. I’m just grateful this idea will likely die off like the hundreds that came before it.

Dhemize.8649:

lil devils x.6071:

Dhemize.8649:

I’ll also point out that if you are carrying around so much gear to equip for the occasion then you would have no issue tanking up for ACs while you man 5 rams. Lol

6* rams and no problem tanking up at all, it is just boring as hell to have everyone run out of the keep when we get in there and kill their siege instead of actually fight. The Siege vs player is what makes it MORE blobby, not less and makes players think they can’t fight without it.

Siege damage on siege is fine. You take down 6 rams with a superior treb easy.

If you bust in and find nobody inside then that’s a sign that they don’t believe they stand a fighting chance, which indicates that you’re running fatter than you think and need to slim down.

I’ve been on both sides of the blob vs siege arms race and both are garbage. Punishing one does not solve it. The idle players at spawn, the server style of running smaller groups instead of an omniblob, and other factors not considered makes this a poor decision that only takes away from another player’s game because they don’t play your way. I’m just grateful this idea will likely die off like the hundreds that came before it.

When we busted in, they outnumbered us and then they jumped out as soon as we killed their siege over and over and over again.. ( YB). BG put up a fight in comparison, not jumped out like that. That was why everyone considers that style game play toxic.
You are talking about players who outnumber and run in towers and keeps and jump on siege instead of fight, even when we had 5, yes,FIVE players vs 25. Man that sure is FAT. LOL

JQ didn’t and MAG doesn’t have an omniblob issue… In fact, BG used to tell us we kept promising to bring an omniblob but could not crap out one to save our lives.. WE KILL omniblobs.. Why do you think I am telling people not to come to WvW with Cheap gear and PvE builds and to be ready to play? You can have a great time if you learn to play and farm the omniblobs.. BAGS for dayz!

lil devils x.6071:

Dhemize.8649:

lil devils x.6071:

Dhemize.8649:

I’ll also point out that if you are carrying around so much gear to equip for the occasion then you would have no issue tanking up for ACs while you man 5 rams. Lol

6* rams and no problem tanking up at all, it is just boring as hell to have everyone run out of the keep when we get in there and kill their siege instead of actually fight. The Siege vs player is what makes it MORE blobby, not less and makes players think they can’t fight without it.

Siege damage on siege is fine. You take down 6 rams with a superior treb easy.

If you bust in and find nobody inside then that’s a sign that they don’t believe they stand a fighting chance, which indicates that you’re running fatter than you think and need to slim down.

I’ve been on both sides of the blob vs siege arms race and both are garbage. Punishing one does not solve it. The idle players at spawn, the server style of running smaller groups instead of an omniblob, and other factors not considered makes this a poor decision that only takes away from another player’s game because they don’t play your way. I’m just grateful this idea will likely die off like the hundreds that came before it.

When we busted in, they outnumbered us and then they jumped out as soon as we killed their siege over and over and over again.. ( YB). BG put up a fight in comparison, not jumped out like that. That was why everyone considers that style game play toxic.
You are talking about players who outnumber and run in towers and keeps and jump on siege instead of fight, even when we had 5, yes,FIVE players vs 25. Man that sure is FAT. LOL

JQ didn’t and MAG doesn’t have an omniblob issue… In fact, BG used to tell us we kept promising to bring an omniblob but could not crap out one to save our lives.. WE KILL omniblobs.. Why do you think I am telling people not to come to WvW with Cheap gear and PvE builds and to be ready to play? You can have a great time if you learn to play and farm the omniblobs.. BAGS for dayz!

You must be the server hero… taking on zergs with only 5 people.

I can’t take you seriously as you’ve been a huge supporter of blobs in past posts and try to justify it. The very idea that you want to take away from others is toxic. The fact you tell others not to come to WvW without correct gear is toxic. Everyone starts somewhere and wants to play at their own pace. Get rid of the elitist attitude and you might accomplished something.

Dhemize.8649:

lil devils x.6071:

Dhemize.8649:

lil devils x.6071:

Dhemize.8649:

I’ll also point out that if you are carrying around so much gear to equip for the occasion then you would have no issue tanking up for ACs while you man 5 rams. Lol

6* rams and no problem tanking up at all, it is just boring as hell to have everyone run out of the keep when we get in there and kill their siege instead of actually fight. The Siege vs player is what makes it MORE blobby, not less and makes players think they can’t fight without it.

Siege damage on siege is fine. You take down 6 rams with a superior treb easy.

If you bust in and find nobody inside then that’s a sign that they don’t believe they stand a fighting chance, which indicates that you’re running fatter than you think and need to slim down.

I’ve been on both sides of the blob vs siege arms race and both are garbage. Punishing one does not solve it. The idle players at spawn, the server style of running smaller groups instead of an omniblob, and other factors not considered makes this a poor decision that only takes away from another player’s game because they don’t play your way. I’m just grateful this idea will likely die off like the hundreds that came before it.

When we busted in, they outnumbered us and then they jumped out as soon as we killed their siege over and over and over again.. ( YB). BG put up a fight in comparison, not jumped out like that. That was why everyone considers that style game play toxic.
You are talking about players who outnumber and run in towers and keeps and jump on siege instead of fight, even when we had 5, yes,FIVE players vs 25. Man that sure is FAT. LOL

JQ didn’t and MAG doesn’t have an omniblob issue… In fact, BG used to tell us we kept promising to bring an omniblob but could not crap out one to save our lives.. WE KILL omniblobs.. Why do you think I am telling people not to come to WvW with Cheap gear and PvE builds and to be ready to play? You can have a great time if you learn to play and farm the omniblobs.. BAGS for dayz!

You must be the server hero… taking on zergs with only 5 people.

I can’t take you seriously as you’ve been a huge supporter of blobs in past posts and try to justify it. The very idea that you want to take away from others is toxic. The fact you tell others not to come to WvW without correct gear is toxic. Everyone starts somewhere and wants to play at their own pace. Get rid of the elitist attitude and you might accomplished something.

Uh no our server hero was an uplevel drunken guardian who chased off a golem zerg and made them WP.. LMAO 5 chasing a zerg into a tower to jump on ACs was justa normal day for most when fighting that server..

Blobs vs blobs are hours of fun.. why would I not support that? We like to play many ways, not just one. We fight Blob vs blob, 15-20 vs blob, 5-6 vs 15-20. It is all fun. WHy would I not support any of it?

Helping players get good gear and show them how to fight outnumbered=\= elitist. Not willing to learn or get involved in ones server community = not a team player.

lil devils x.6071:

Dhemize.8649:

lil devils x.6071:

Dhemize.8649:

lil devils x.6071:

Dhemize.8649:

I’ll also point out that if you are carrying around so much gear to equip for the occasion then you would have no issue tanking up for ACs while you man 5 rams. Lol

6* rams and no problem tanking up at all, it is just boring as hell to have everyone run out of the keep when we get in there and kill their siege instead of actually fight. The Siege vs player is what makes it MORE blobby, not less and makes players think they can’t fight without it.

Siege damage on siege is fine. You take down 6 rams with a superior treb easy.

If you bust in and find nobody inside then that’s a sign that they don’t believe they stand a fighting chance, which indicates that you’re running fatter than you think and need to slim down.

I’ve been on both sides of the blob vs siege arms race and both are garbage. Punishing one does not solve it. The idle players at spawn, the server style of running smaller groups instead of an omniblob, and other factors not considered makes this a poor decision that only takes away from another player’s game because they don’t play your way. I’m just grateful this idea will likely die off like the hundreds that came before it.

When we busted in, they outnumbered us and then they jumped out as soon as we killed their siege over and over and over again.. ( YB). BG put up a fight in comparison, not jumped out like that. That was why everyone considers that style game play toxic.
You are talking about players who outnumber and run in towers and keeps and jump on siege instead of fight, even when we had 5, yes,FIVE players vs 25. Man that sure is FAT. LOL

JQ didn’t and MAG doesn’t have an omniblob issue… In fact, BG used to tell us we kept promising to bring an omniblob but could not crap out one to save our lives.. WE KILL omniblobs.. Why do you think I am telling people not to come to WvW with Cheap gear and PvE builds and to be ready to play? You can have a great time if you learn to play and farm the omniblobs.. BAGS for dayz!

You must be the server hero… taking on zergs with only 5 people.

I can’t take you seriously as you’ve been a huge supporter of blobs in past posts and try to justify it. The very idea that you want to take away from others is toxic. The fact you tell others not to come to WvW without correct gear is toxic. Everyone starts somewhere and wants to play at their own pace. Get rid of the elitist attitude and you might accomplished something.

Uh no our server hero was an uplevel drunken guardian who chased off a golem zerg and made them WP.. LMAO 5 chasing a zerg into a tower to jump on ACs was justa normal day for most when fighting that server..

Blobs vs blobs are hours of fun.. why would I not support that? We like to play many ways, not just one. We fight Blob vs blob, 15-20 vs blob, 5-6 vs 15-20. It is all fun. WHy would I not support any of it?

Helping players get good gear and show them how to fight outnumbered=\= elitist. Not willing to learn or get involved in ones server community = not a team player.

“Why do you think I am telling people not to come to WvW with Cheap gear and PvE builds and to be ready to play?” = elitist attitude.

Claiming/bragging to chase 25 people away (to supposedly jump on ACs) with only five people = elitist attitude.

The overall goal of this thread = elitist attitude and a poor idea to boot.

/thread

lil devils x.6071:

Players are not looking for easy objectives, they are looking for players to actually FIGHT for the objectives not use siege and if their siege gets blown up run away. That is lame as hell. We want the 6 hour all out brawls winner takes all siegeless fights to feel like we are actually having fun.

That’s not entirely true as we know most of the players will run away from a fight as soon as the odds don’t favor them. Yes, sure, there are players that want fights, but nowadays most of the players just want to choo-choo their way to victory or annoy a k-train by putting a siegeloaded objective in their way.

Jeknar.6184:

lil devils x.6071:

Players are not looking for easy objectives, they are looking for players to actually FIGHT for the objectives not use siege and if their siege gets blown up run away. That is lame as hell. We want the 6 hour all out brawls winner takes all siegeless fights to feel like we are actually having fun.

That’s not entirely true as we know most of the players will run away from a fight as soon as the odds don’t favor them. Yes, sure, there are players that want fights, but nowadays most of the players just want to choo-choo their way to victory or annoy a k-train by putting a siegeloaded objective in their way.

If they stop rewarding PvD, maybe The K-train will move back to EotM. *shoves it back in it’s box and sits on it" THERE.

Dhemize.8649:

lil devils x.6071:

Dhemize.8649:

lil devils x.6071:

Dhemize.8649:

lil devils x.6071:

Dhemize.8649:

I’ll also point out that if you are carrying around so much gear to equip for the occasion then you would have no issue tanking up for ACs while you man 5 rams. Lol

6* rams and no problem tanking up at all, it is just boring as hell to have everyone run out of the keep when we get in there and kill their siege instead of actually fight. The Siege vs player is what makes it MORE blobby, not less and makes players think they can’t fight without it.

Siege damage on siege is fine. You take down 6 rams with a superior treb easy.

If you bust in and find nobody inside then that’s a sign that they don’t believe they stand a fighting chance, which indicates that you’re running fatter than you think and need to slim down.

I’ve been on both sides of the blob vs siege arms race and both are garbage. Punishing one does not solve it. The idle players at spawn, the server style of running smaller groups instead of an omniblob, and other factors not considered makes this a poor decision that only takes away from another player’s game because they don’t play your way. I’m just grateful this idea will likely die off like the hundreds that came before it.

When we busted in, they outnumbered us and then they jumped out as soon as we killed their siege over and over and over again.. ( YB). BG put up a fight in comparison, not jumped out like that. That was why everyone considers that style game play toxic.
You are talking about players who outnumber and run in towers and keeps and jump on siege instead of fight, even when we had 5, yes,FIVE players vs 25. Man that sure is FAT. LOL

JQ didn’t and MAG doesn’t have an omniblob issue… In fact, BG used to tell us we kept promising to bring an omniblob but could not crap out one to save our lives.. WE KILL omniblobs.. Why do you think I am telling people not to come to WvW with Cheap gear and PvE builds and to be ready to play? You can have a great time if you learn to play and farm the omniblobs.. BAGS for dayz!

You must be the server hero… taking on zergs with only 5 people.

I can’t take you seriously as you’ve been a huge supporter of blobs in past posts and try to justify it. The very idea that you want to take away from others is toxic. The fact you tell others not to come to WvW without correct gear is toxic. Everyone starts somewhere and wants to play at their own pace. Get rid of the elitist attitude and you might accomplished something.

Uh no our server hero was an uplevel drunken guardian who chased off a golem zerg and made them WP.. LMAO 5 chasing a zerg into a tower to jump on ACs was justa normal day for most when fighting that server..

Blobs vs blobs are hours of fun.. why would I not support that? We like to play many ways, not just one. We fight Blob vs blob, 15-20 vs blob, 5-6 vs 15-20. It is all fun. WHy would I not support any of it?

Helping players get good gear and show them how to fight outnumbered=\= elitist. Not willing to learn or get involved in ones server community = not a team player.

“Why do you think I am telling people not to come to WvW with Cheap gear and PvE builds and to be ready to play?” = elitist attitude.

Claiming/bragging to chase 25 people away (to supposedly jump on ACs) with only five people = elitist attitude.

The overall goal of this thread = elitist attitude and a poor idea to boot.

/thread

No that is not an elitist attitude, it is expecting them to put forth the effort to learn what it takes to play the game mode well. It is no different than not expecting people to show up to a basketball game in flippers and a scuba suit to try and play basketball.

That isn’t an " elitist attitude" that is just trying to show them the right tools for the job. You don’t try to saw a log with a pocket knife either, you get the right tool for the job.

You are not getting it.. Our 5 players are not impressive was the point I was making.. they overreacted and would not fight because YB has the “fight guilds not welcome here” attitude. YB actually had that on the home page of their forums .

The overall thread = How to bring players back to fighting over objectives and not jump out and run away if they can’t use siege. Are you trying to say you don;t think the fights should come back to objectives as is the point of an objective based PvP game mode? Not bringing the fights back to the objectives means the game mode will have greatly reduce longevity as players get bored and leave with broken game mechanics as no one cares to fight over objectives or win anymore..

There are multiple ways to counter ANY siege ANYwhere. No need for topics like this.

Offair.2563:

There are multiple ways to counter ANY siege ANYwhere. No need for topics like this.

We know all about counter siege.. The point is IT is BORING and running off players from the game. There IS a need for threads like this IF you want to:

• Increase game population
• Increase player satisfaction
• increase game longevity

Counter siege =\= bringing the fights back to objectives. Counter siege=\= make the game action packed and fun. Counter siege =\= increasing the games longevity and overall player satisfaction.

THAT is why there is a need for threads like these.

McWolfy.5924:

1 hour of face rubbing on a gate while 6 ac shoot your head… Yeah sooo much fun. The only “fun” siege is the golem. If they want more siege wars add more golem like things

See that is what needs to be understood. The game mode is meant to be fun, and most players do not find counter siege fun IS the issue. It is making players bored , and when players get bored of a game, they leave it. When players leave it the game dies..

I want my bags when players are too dumb to get out of my AC fire..

Hit EOTM and drop an AC above the bell tower. Watch the lemmings all zerg the circle and die to the AC fire. Enjoy the bags.. Rinse and repeat..

You die to AC it is a YOU problem.

LazyDad.2037:

I want my bags when players are too dumb to get out of my AC fire..

Hit EOTM and drop an AC above the bell tower. Watch the lemmings all zerg the circle and die to the AC fire. Enjoy the bags.. Rinse and repeat..

You die to AC it is a YOU problem.

Dying to AC fire isn’t even the problem with AC’s… Players not fighting without them and running off when you take out the AC IS the problem.

Your proposal misses the main point of why people jump on siege every chance they get. Put plainly,
using siege weapons is fun.

I use siege all the time. I like the sounds the machines make. I like the animations. What’s more, I get to stay in one place without having to hare around like a hyperactive toddler. Compared to running after a colored tag like one of Benny Hill’s extras it seems positively grown up.

Personally, I don’t give a hoot whether players I’m shooting with a cannon or an arrow cart die or not. I certainly don’t care whether they drop loot or give points. It’s a targeting game with a moving target and that’s fun in itself.

You can take out every practical reason and reward for shooting moving targets with a projectile-firing machine and shooting them is still going to be fun. Only way you’re going to stop it being fun is to take the siege out of the game entirely, at which point the game is over and we move on to something else that’s fun.

lil devils x.6071:

Offair.2563:

There are multiple ways to counter ANY siege ANYwhere. No need for topics like this.

We know all about counter siege.. The point is IT is BORING and running off players from the game. There IS a need for threads like this IF you want to:

• Increase game population
• Increase player satisfaction
• increase game longevity

Counter siege =\= bringing the fights back to objectives. Counter siege=\= make the game action packed and fun. Counter siege =\= increasing the games longevity and overall player satisfaction.

THAT is why there is a need for threads like these.

Siege has been in game since launch. The reason people leave en masse ( least the one i know of ) doing that cause of the kitten ups with HoT and the class imbalance – Especially when it comes to small combat.

Offair.2563:

lil devils x.6071:

Offair.2563:

There are multiple ways to counter ANY siege ANYwhere. No need for topics like this.

We know all about counter siege.. The point is IT is BORING and running off players from the game. There IS a need for threads like this IF you want to:

• Increase game population
• Increase player satisfaction
• increase game longevity

Counter siege =\= bringing the fights back to objectives. Counter siege=\= make the game action packed and fun. Counter siege =\= increasing the games longevity and overall player satisfaction.

THAT is why there is a need for threads like these.

Siege has been in game since launch. The reason people leave en masse ( least the one i know of ) doing that cause of the kitten ups with HoT and the class imbalance – Especially when it comes to small combat.

Here is a pretty accurate timeline of events that have caused the current state of WvW. Yes, HoT was devastating, but this has been an issue since the 80% AC buff in 2013 sending players away from the objectives. If we really want WvW fixed and for players to care about the score and fight over objectives again, we have to fix the problems that caused it to become this way, starting from the beginning:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/wuv/WvW-Timeline-Situation-Explained