Guild Wars 2

While I’m not alone in saying that the players are grateful for the renewed effort to WvW, I’m not envisioning a very bright future with the path being presented.

When looking at the history of WvW we can see a constant loss in players over the years, along with permanent losses after each tournament. Current efforts have been decent to increase the overall low population, but this emergency effort doesn’t provide a good future outlook… Why do I say this? Because there doesn’t seem to be anything in the works as far as engine improvements, professions and meaningful new features… for long term appeal and growth.

The following is NOT to advertise any competitor, it’s to raise awareness here of what would more than likely keep GW2 pvp competitive for the future.

While Anet has a decent engine, and has made improvements, we all see the strains in any mass combat situation. I’ll be honest and say that it looks very attractive to see " goal is 30 fps with up to 500 players", compared to the 20- 30 fps with 150 players on the combat field.

Since GW2 launched, professions were all designed to be kinda of jack of all roles, but only decent with some. The main focus to profession roles is damage, with secondary capabilities to do something like control for a few seconds and/or support for a few seconds during combat… Now I can honestly say that GW2 has a really great combat system with the ability to cast on the move and with targeting, but those are the only major highlights to professions and combat here. There are virtually no decent roles to play here outside of DPS. Viable skills are limited across all game modes. We have a “twitchy” combat system that is fast paced, but most of our skills are on 25+++ second timers and our auto attacks do 90% of the heavy labor to take down enemies… As an old school pvper I’m going to honestly say that 25+++ seconds is a lifetime in combat, and having 75% of our skills on these “lifetime” cool downs makes for a very low quality combat experience.

I’m not sure how to phrase it, but this is kind of like a “sool” profession and combat system here… Limited roles, limited viability, limited skills, limited variety, limited everything… profession and combat designs… So when I see a hugely diverse amount of classes and roles to play it’s pretty exciting compared to here.

What great features does GW2 WvW have to keep and grow players? Reward tracks? Necessary server linking to combat dwindling populations? No competitions? Extremely limited amount of maps to play on?… Like what features are good and exciting and sustainable here for the long run?

I’m hard pressed to think of any, and when I look at the possibility of a no queue open world designed for massive combat of 500 plays while maintaining 30 fps, a cast of 30 different archetypes and 10 different roles to play, classes designed solely for pvp, a true realm vs realm experience with sandbox features, a not “I win” stealth system and a far better fleshed out cc system… I can’t really see any appeal here compared.

I do not like to compare and contrast games, but the reality is that for the long run GW2 doesn’t provide players a quality engine for mass combat, it doesn’t provide players a quality and diverse cast of classes and roles, it doesn’t provide a quality combat system due to skill designs, stealth mechanics, cc system… and it doesn’t provide players with any list of quality features to play with that retain and grow the playerbase.

As I said, we are all grateful for the renewed effort, but what does GW2 offer a year from now that keeps it interesting enough for players to stick around for WvW and such?

Every game I’ve ever played people log these same complaints. Then the games last another 5-10 years. People get bored and move on. Keeping things the same aren’t going to change them, reverting back to an old version won’t bring them back. Player churn is factored into how companies like anet operate. They don’t have to make you happy if they can make 2 newer players who aren’t burned out happy.

Hesacon.8735:

Every game I’ve ever played people log these same complaints. Then the games last another 5-10 years. People get bored and move on. Keeping things the same aren’t going to change them, reverting back to an old version won’t bring them back. Player churn is factored into how companies like anet operate. They don’t have to make you happy if they can make 2 newer players who aren’t burned out happy.

But here is the thing… 95% of game development efforts have gone to PvE. Professions have been extremely unattended to. Patchwork efforts go to performance stuff while the devs know 1000% they designed portions of their game for mass combat scenarios… So while there is a natural fade in player interest, there has also not been any sort of major effort in the above 3 areas.

Anet is trying to grow the game to make money, but are not willing to make the strong reinvestments to make that happen.

WvW will be in trouble a year from now if core things don’t improve, and 2 things I’ve mentioned have an impact on the rest of the game as well.

Swagger.1459:

So while there is a natural fade in player interest, there has also not been any sort of major effort in the above 3 areas.

Clearly anet is neglecting wvw, they certainly haven’t

• Been having weekly polls to determine what the general public wants out of wvw
• Brought back alpine, which the vocal minority had been clamoring for
• Added reward tracks to help keep player interest in wvw and draw in some new people looking for loot
• Overhauled the objective upgrade system
• Overhauled the squad system to make it easier on commanders
• Add PPK to encourage fights rather than k-trains and PPT
• Had discussions on how to solve many of the gripes the vocal wvw players bring up, including night capping and server populations
• Actually solved gripes people had like auto looting

Nope, anet is completely ignoring wvw and letting it die a withered husk. I’ll be surprised if wvw still exists in July.

Hesacon.8735:

Swagger.1459:

So while there is a natural fade in player interest, there has also not been any sort of major effort in the above 3 areas.

Clearly anet is neglecting wvw, they certainly haven’t

• Been having weekly polls to determine what the general public wants out of wvw
• Brought back alpine, which the vocal minority had been clamoring for
• Added reward tracks to help keep player interest in wvw and draw in some new people looking for loot
• Overhauled the objective upgrade system
• Overhauled the squad system to make it easier on commanders
• Add PPK to encourage fights rather than k-trains and PPT
• Had discussions on how to solve many of the gripes the vocal wvw players bring up, including night capping and server populations
• Actually solved gripes people had like auto looting

Nope, anet is completely ignoring wvw and letting it die a withered husk. I’ll be surprised if wvw still exists in July.

Or you could read the op and understand I gave the current efforts a nod already.

I agree with a lot of what you said above. It will always be harder to change an existing game though and certainly one where the current issues weren’t predicted. There are a lot of good suggestions out there for assisting the situation. For me I came back due to renewed interest among my friends in the game mode. You have a lot of differing (valid) issues in your post. All of which take a number of solutions to put into place.

For a long while I didn’t see much improvement or involvement with WvW. Now we are making some forward progress at least. No solution is going to be perfect out the gate. Why? Because of the unpredictability of players for one thing.

Any new game has the advantage of learning from Anet and developing around the needs of the player base. We’ll eventually see another company get it right and have a winner on their hands. I have no doubt about that. A lot of people I know have been playing since GW1 launched and don’t really seem keen on leaving for good. Taking a break? Sure. That I would see as being a real possibility.

I think a lot of people are waiting to see what changes are going to be implemented. Sure, I’d like to see changes in the engine too. But at that point does Anet just start working on GW3?

Swagger.1459:

Hesacon.8735:

Every game I’ve ever played people log these same complaints. Then the games last another 5-10 years. People get bored and move on. Keeping things the same aren’t going to change them, reverting back to an old version won’t bring them back. Player churn is factored into how companies like anet operate. They don’t have to make you happy if they can make 2 newer players who aren’t burned out happy.

But here is the thing… 95% of game development efforts have gone to PvE. Professions have been extremely unattended to. Patchwork efforts go to performance stuff while the devs know 1000% they designed portions of their game for mass combat scenarios… So while there is a natural fade in player interest, there has also not been any sort of major effort in the above 3 areas.

Anet is trying to grow the game to make money, but are not willing to make the strong reinvestments to make that happen.

WvW will be in trouble a year from now if core things don’t improve, and 2 things I’ve mentioned have an impact on the rest of the game as well.

I hate when ppl just pull % out of nothing they mean nothing becuse there is nothing to back it up. WvW pve and spvp are 100% being worked on becuse they are different teams and not the same. Comply beyond me why ppl think things can only be done one at a time.

Jski.6180:

Swagger.1459:

Hesacon.8735:

Every game I’ve ever played people log these same complaints. Then the games last another 5-10 years. People get bored and move on. Keeping things the same aren’t going to change them, reverting back to an old version won’t bring them back. Player churn is factored into how companies like anet operate. They don’t have to make you happy if they can make 2 newer players who aren’t burned out happy.

But here is the thing… 95% of game development efforts have gone to PvE. Professions have been extremely unattended to. Patchwork efforts go to performance stuff while the devs know 1000% they designed portions of their game for mass combat scenarios… So while there is a natural fade in player interest, there has also not been any sort of major effort in the above 3 areas.

Anet is trying to grow the game to make money, but are not willing to make the strong reinvestments to make that happen.

WvW will be in trouble a year from now if core things don’t improve, and 2 things I’ve mentioned have an impact on the rest of the game as well.

I hate when ppl just pull % out of nothing they mean nothing becuse there is nothing to back it up. WvW pve and spvp are 100% being worked on becuse they are different teams and not the same. Comply beyond me why ppl think things can only be done one at a time.

WvW has received a fraction of development compared to PvE since August 2012. That’s the main message.

Are some of you here to nitpick wording or contribute to the main topic?

It’s pretty easy to understand the meaning of that phrase by using some basic reasoning skills.

The work that is currently being done is great. They already know they need to work on things such as profession balance etc., but can’t do everything at once or it would be back to “maybe we will see an update by the end of 2016” scenario.

In hind sight, of course there should have been things worked on LONG ago. Scoring changes should have been started about 3 months after the initial free transfers and servers settled down a bit, profession and skill balance should have been more game encompassing and designed from the ground up for entire game rather then 5v5 spvp that doesn’t even reflect rest of the game (not just WVW) in terms of builds, consumables, etc.

Multiple maps could have been in use since long ago, for example once in a great while why not rotate in the original BL with the lake in middle just for a week or 2 ?

Server links are great, playing on T3 now feels like playing on T7 or T6 when WVW was at its height, whereas playing on T2 before (after YB rolled up to T1) felt like playing on nearly deserted T8.

There are still things to be done, one of the most important is to stop / prevent large groups of players from manipulating the transfer system. The current efforts for this, the “low thresh hold for full servers” are gettign a lot of innocent players caught up in the crossfire, sort of speak. So some different transfer limitations should be in place, while the thresh hold should be raised.

If they do this right, and this time around leave some team actually working on and implimenting continuous changes to WVW after the large ones are done, then things will be in good shape, or as good as they can possibly get. Otherwise will be back to square one.

Hesacon.8735:

Every game I’ve ever played people log these same complaints. Then the games last another 5-10 years. People get bored and move on. Keeping things the same aren’t going to change them, reverting back to an old version won’t bring them back. Player churn is factored into how companies like anet operate. They don’t have to make you happy if they can make 2 newer players who aren’t burned out happy.

I really have to agree with this. GW2 is going on 4 years now, and that is OLD for any mmorpg. Player turnover is always a factor with a game this old…..as you said….people get bored, burnt out, looking for something new, etc…..

Your last sentence, especially, is very, very accurate, imo.

I think that GW2 will most likely last at least another 5 years. Things will change, wvw will inevitably fluctuate as old players leave, new players come in, and vets continue on.
This is a similar sort of cycle that most mmoprgs go through as they age. Doesn’t mean they’re dying……just is constant change and adaptation to fluctuating playerbase numbers on Anet’s part.

3-5 years from now, a lot of us will be playing some new mmoprg with wild pvp/wvw, a great graphics engine, and whining about all the problems with it whilst fondly remembering this game, I bet.

Teon.5168:

Hesacon.8735:

Every game I’ve ever played people log these same complaints. Then the games last another 5-10 years. People get bored and move on. Keeping things the same aren’t going to change them, reverting back to an old version won’t bring them back. Player churn is factored into how companies like anet operate. They don’t have to make you happy if they can make 2 newer players who aren’t burned out happy.

I really have to agree with this. GW2 is going on 4 years now, and that is OLD for any mmorpg. Player turnover is always a factor with a game this old…..as you said….people get bored, burnt out, looking for something new, etc…..

Your last sentence, especially, is very, very accurate, imo.

I think that GW2 will most likely last at least another 5 years. Things will change, wvw will inevitably fluctuate as old players leave, new players come in, and vets continue on.
This is a similar sort of cycle that most mmoprgs go through as they age. Doesn’t mean they’re dying……just is constant change and adaptation to fluctuating playerbase numbers on Anet’s part.

3-5 years from now, a lot of us will be playing some new mmoprg with wild pvp/wvw, a great graphics engine, and whining about all the problems with it whilst fondly remembering this game, I bet.

Ok, the entire premise of this thread is asking to make improvements to the engine, professions and add better features to wvw…

Those three are extremely common and valid request.

Now if you don’t want the game to grow in any area then we don’t ask for anything correct?

How much PvE development has gone on over the years compared to pvp stuff?

A very much anticipated pvp game will come out and make a dent into wvw here, so Anet needs to be aware of that. So do players. There will be guilds and players from here bailing out of wvw in its current form because it doesn’t have any staying and holding power… So instead of just LS, LS, PvE tailored xpac, LS, LS, PvE tailored xpac, LS, LS, LS… How about the devs invest a bit more into WvW, take a harder look at professions and really dig into the engine stuff a bit more at some point?

I mean are any of these unreasonable? Don’t you all want pvp related stuff improved? Or should we just not care that in a year or so pvp might be a ghost ship?

Swagger.1459:

Teon.5168:

Hesacon.8735:

Every game I’ve ever played people log these same complaints. Then the games last another 5-10 years. People get bored and move on. Keeping things the same aren’t going to change them, reverting back to an old version won’t bring them back. Player churn is factored into how companies like anet operate. They don’t have to make you happy if they can make 2 newer players who aren’t burned out happy.

I really have to agree with this. GW2 is going on 4 years now, and that is OLD for any mmorpg. Player turnover is always a factor with a game this old…..as you said….people get bored, burnt out, looking for something new, etc…..

Your last sentence, especially, is very, very accurate, imo.

I think that GW2 will most likely last at least another 5 years. Things will change, wvw will inevitably fluctuate as old players leave, new players come in, and vets continue on.
This is a similar sort of cycle that most mmoprgs go through as they age. Doesn’t mean they’re dying……just is constant change and adaptation to fluctuating playerbase numbers on Anet’s part.

3-5 years from now, a lot of us will be playing some new mmoprg with wild pvp/wvw, a great graphics engine, and whining about all the problems with it whilst fondly remembering this game, I bet.

Ok, the entire premise of this thread is asking to make improvements to the engine, professions and add better features to wvw…

Those three are extremely common and valid request.

Now if you don’t want the game to grow in any area then we don’t ask for anything correct?

How much PvE development has gone on over the years compared to pvp stuff?

A very much anticipated pvp game will come out and make a dent into wvw here, so Anet needs to be aware of that. So do players. There will be guild from here bailing out of wvw in its current form because it doesn’t have any staying and holding power. So instead of just LS, LS, PvE tailored xpac, LS, LS, PvE tailored xpac, LS, LS, LS… How about the devs invest a bit more into WvW, take a harder look at professions and really dig into the engine stuff a bit more at some point?…

I mean are any of these unreasonable? Dot you all want pvp related stuff improved? Or should we just not care that in a year or so pvp might be a ghost ship?

Never said I didn’t want to see the game grow. Would love to see that. And yes, you’re correct….PvE has gotten the much larger bulk of the attention than has wvw. Heck, we all wondered if Anet was even paying attention to WvW for a couple years considering that they rarely posted about it for so long.

I would love to see Anet execute some of your ideas about stuff that needs to be worked on and improved. My last response to Hesacon was basically just agreeing with the statements about turnover, game age, and that sort of thing.

I would love to see continued effort in improving this game. And I have been very encouraged of late with all the wvw communication. I am sure they realize that they’ll have some tough competition coming down the pipe in the near and distant future.

But, eventually(hopefully later than sooner), this game and its wvw, pvp, pve will turn into a ghost ship as it grows really long in the tooth.

Personally, I hope that happens a long ways down the road……I still enjoy this game too much….would love to see GW2 remain healthy for at least another 5 years.

Heck, even Dark Age of Camelot is still up and running, and it’s 15, 16 years old, now? Unless Anet really screws up, I could easily see GW2 lasting another 8 or so years.

Swagger.1459:

Teon.5168:

Hesacon.8735:

Every game I’ve ever played people log these same complaints. Then the games last another 5-10 years. People get bored and move on. Keeping things the same aren’t going to change them, reverting back to an old version won’t bring them back. Player churn is factored into how companies like anet operate. They don’t have to make you happy if they can make 2 newer players who aren’t burned out happy.

I really have to agree with this. GW2 is going on 4 years now, and that is OLD for any mmorpg. Player turnover is always a factor with a game this old…..as you said….people get bored, burnt out, looking for something new, etc…..

Your last sentence, especially, is very, very accurate, imo.

I think that GW2 will most likely last at least another 5 years. Things will change, wvw will inevitably fluctuate as old players leave, new players come in, and vets continue on.
This is a similar sort of cycle that most mmoprgs go through as they age. Doesn’t mean they’re dying……just is constant change and adaptation to fluctuating playerbase numbers on Anet’s part.

3-5 years from now, a lot of us will be playing some new mmoprg with wild pvp/wvw, a great graphics engine, and whining about all the problems with it whilst fondly remembering this game, I bet.

Ok, the entire premise of this thread is asking to make improvements to the engine, professions and add better features to wvw…

Those three are extremely common and valid request.

Now if you don’t want the game to grow in any area then we don’t ask for anything correct?

How much PvE development has gone on over the years compared to pvp stuff?

A very much anticipated pvp game will come out and make a dent into wvw here, so Anet needs to be aware of that. So do players. There will be guilds and players from here bailing out of wvw in its current form because it doesn’t have any staying and holding power… So instead of just LS, LS, PvE tailored xpac, LS, LS, PvE tailored xpac, LS, LS, LS… How about the devs invest a bit more into WvW, take a harder look at professions and really dig into the engine stuff a bit more at some point?

I mean are any of these unreasonable? Don’t you all want pvp related stuff improved? Or should we just not care that in a year or so pvp might be a ghost ship?

The game engine I can agree needs to be updated.
Professions have been moved up to a balance pass every quarter.
WvW features are being worked on with communication and feedback from the player base.

I don’t understand what more you want. PvE is the bread and butter for this game as much as I disagree with that direction.

Don’t worry I comprehended what you wrote so you don’t need to trot out your old excuse of I didn’t understand. Maybe GW2 PvP modes aren’t the game types for you.

bloodletting wolf.2837:

The game engine I can agree needs to be updated.

+100

The time to grow WvW has long past — if they had begun to cultivate WvW two/three years ago, there’d be a good chance WvW would be thriving right now. But they did nothing and it’s simply too late at this point.

By now, Anet/GW2/WvW’s reputation has been damaged too much to expect future growth. Given this, it’d be foolish for the devs to put in the massive amounts of work needed to deal with OP’s issues.

The best you can hope for are small, easy to implement, features that can slow down the population decline. Just look at the current and upcoming polls: it all involves small, relatively simple tweaks here and there.

Perhaps things would be different if WvW had some competition two/three years back. Unfortunately there wasn’t any. As for hope of improvement due to the upcoming competition: it’s too late — the negative buzz from HoT effectively put GW2 out of the race. New players interested in this type of game mode aren’t going to consider GW2 as an option when these competitors are released.

If you want 500 players on a map with decent fps, you’re going to have to wait for those other games to come out. It’s not coming to WvW.

i’m pretty close to dropping WvW / the game completely depending on what they decide to do after the server linking beta ends and what direction they take WvW. So far they have been basically undoing all the damage they did with HoT bit by bit.

Swagger.1459:

A very much anticipated pvp game will come out and make a dent into wvw here, so Anet needs to be aware of that. So do players. There will be guilds and players from here bailing out of wvw in its current form because it doesn’t have any staying and holding power… So instead of just LS, LS, PvE tailored xpac, LS, LS, PvE tailored xpac, LS, LS, LS… How about the devs invest a bit more into WvW, take a harder look at professions and really dig into the engine stuff a bit more at some point?

I mean are any of these unreasonable? Don’t you all want pvp related stuff improved? Or should we just not care that in a year or so pvp might be a ghost ship?

You’re 100% right. And its not really just the 1 game, “there is another”.

I foresee the majority of the WvW guilds still playing this game will leave for these other games leaving purely a militia/pug base left in the mode. Whilst the recent WvW focus is good I still think the actual changes show that anet is not prepared to make hard decisions on the mode for the long term.

morrolan.9608:

Whilst the recent WvW focus is good I still think the actual changes show that anet is not prepared to make hard decisions on the mode for the long term.

Even they probably see the writing on the wall: there’s no point putting lots of effort at this time — they missed that boat already (and then smashed it to bits with HoT).

I think that WvW players are kinda loyal to a fault. I am still playing WvW and haven’t even finished end-game yet (proudly still level 12 Hot!). The problem is that Anet has been sitting on the most incredible gameplay to hit the scene in a long time, and it took a massive outflux of guilds (people) moving to different games for them to realize it. It should have never gotten to the point of combining servers, but I am glad they started paying attention to it instead of letting it die completely.

Thustlewhumber.7416:

I think that WvW players are kinda loyal to a fault. I am still playing WvW and haven’t even finished end-game yet (proudly still level 12 Hot!). The problem is that Anet has been sitting on the most incredible gameplay to hit the scene in a long time, and it took a massive outflux of guilds (people) moving to different games for them to realize it. It should have never gotten to the point of combining servers, but I am glad they started paying attention to it instead of letting it die completely.

I hate to say it, but older mmorpgs almost always get to a point of combining and/or merging servers. Numbers get a lot different from year one, and there comes a time when a game company must be realistic to keep the game playable, as numbers decline, fluctuate, etc……

I am enjoying the fact that at least they’re now paying some attention to wvw.

As someone who has played wvw for nearly 3.5 years now, I am very much enjoying the new direction it is heading. They are making some great changes, implementing much needed and long overdue features, and most importantly they are actually communicating, taking feedback into account with polls and live beta tests, and trying to fix what doesn’t work or is broken.

Do people not remember when they didn’t even acknowledge that wvw existed? When we would get screwed over with no updates, no fixes, no communication for months at a time.

Of course there are things that can be improved, and stuff that I personally am not crazy about. But really they deserve a lot of credit for this new direction, and I really look forward to what is in store for the future.

I much prefer this steady stream of updates, features, changes, and fixes rather then a hyped up event here and there that burns out a bunch of people. Or making massive changes with no feedback, communication whatsoever. Even if I don’t agree with or like everything that is being done, I am realistic and don’t expect perfection. They are on the right path, and if some people don’t want to be a part of it and move on, well that’s your choice to do so.

Swagger.1459:

Jski.6180:

Swagger.1459:

Hesacon.8735:

Every game I’ve ever played people log these same complaints. Then the games last another 5-10 years. People get bored and move on. Keeping things the same aren’t going to change them, reverting back to an old version won’t bring them back. Player churn is factored into how companies like anet operate. They don’t have to make you happy if they can make 2 newer players who aren’t burned out happy.

But here is the thing… 95% of game development efforts have gone to PvE. Professions have been extremely unattended to. Patchwork efforts go to performance stuff while the devs know 1000% they designed portions of their game for mass combat scenarios… So while there is a natural fade in player interest, there has also not been any sort of major effort in the above 3 areas.

Anet is trying to grow the game to make money, but are not willing to make the strong reinvestments to make that happen.

WvW will be in trouble a year from now if core things don’t improve, and 2 things I’ve mentioned have an impact on the rest of the game as well.

I hate when ppl just pull % out of nothing they mean nothing becuse there is nothing to back it up. WvW pve and spvp are 100% being worked on becuse they are different teams and not the same. Comply beyond me why ppl think things can only be done one at a time.

WvW has received a fraction of development compared to PvE since August 2012. That’s the main message.

Well ya and they changed that. The problem with your point of view they can never get to the level of development for one game type becuse your talking about a point of the game where pve was a major driver for the game (as in there only so much you can add to wvw with out making it a complete mess see EOTM and think of what wvw would be like if they took every thing from there and added it to the BL.) So there is nothing that can be done to realizes what you want from Anet and wvw at this point. Your point of view is “if you do not make it right the first time give up.”

I think gw2 in general has no bright future.

There’s more people watching Microsoft Flight Simulator than guild wars 2 right now on twitch tv lol

Jski.6180:

Swagger.1459:

Jski.6180:

Swagger.1459:

Hesacon.8735:

Every game I’ve ever played people log these same complaints. Then the games last another 5-10 years. People get bored and move on. Keeping things the same aren’t going to change them, reverting back to an old version won’t bring them back. Player churn is factored into how companies like anet operate. They don’t have to make you happy if they can make 2 newer players who aren’t burned out happy.

But here is the thing… 95% of game development efforts have gone to PvE. Professions have been extremely unattended to. Patchwork efforts go to performance stuff while the devs know 1000% they designed portions of their game for mass combat scenarios… So while there is a natural fade in player interest, there has also not been any sort of major effort in the above 3 areas.

Anet is trying to grow the game to make money, but are not willing to make the strong reinvestments to make that happen.

WvW will be in trouble a year from now if core things don’t improve, and 2 things I’ve mentioned have an impact on the rest of the game as well.

I hate when ppl just pull % out of nothing they mean nothing becuse there is nothing to back it up. WvW pve and spvp are 100% being worked on becuse they are different teams and not the same. Comply beyond me why ppl think things can only be done one at a time.

WvW has received a fraction of development compared to PvE since August 2012. That’s the main message.

Well ya and they changed that. The problem with your point of view they can never get to the level of development for one game type becuse your talking about a point of the game where pve was a major driver for the game (as in there only so much you can add to wvw with out making it a complete mess see EOTM and think of what wvw would be like if they took every thing from there and added it to the BL.) So there is nothing that can be done to realizes what you want from Anet and wvw at this point. Your point of view is “if you do not make it right the first time give up.”

Bolded part 1. Really? They can’t? It’s just impossible correct?

Bolded part 2. Huh? Where in any of my posts did you assume that? Please show me because I’m dying to know.

GW2 is nearly four years old. Player attrition happens in these games as players want new experiences in other games. GW2 still has a healthy population.

Compare that to most other MMOs… Outside of WoW, GW2 is probably one of the most successful MMOs running. Where are you going to go… Rift, Wildstar, EDO, SWToR, BnS, BDO, etc? Nobody has combat on this scale with this activity level.

Straegen.2938:

GW2 is nearly four years old. Player attrition happens in these games as players want new experiences in other games. GW2 still has a healthy population.

Compare that to most other MMOs… Outside of WoW, GW2 is probably one of the most successful MMOs running. Where are you going to go… Rift, Wildstar, EDO, SWToR, BnS, BDO, etc? Nobody has combat on this scale with this activity level.

Umm we are talking about WvW here…

Ok, gw2 is 4 years old… and what? Don’t make strong improvements to WvW?

Player attrition happens, so what? You don’t think Anet wants more players playing and spending money?

GW2 has a healthy population except in WvW, hence the needed linking, or did you somehow miss that emergency bandage?

You are obviously not aware of some rvr games coming out, one of which will take a chunk of pvp minded players here unless more than server linking and reward tracks happen…

If you don’t want strong improvements to WvW, then don’t complain when the mode is dead a year from now.

Edit- I find certain comments very interesting, it’s almost as if some of you want WvW to remain a subpar experience…

Just do me a favor, don’t QQ to the devs later when the entire WvW population fits into a few maps.

X T D.6458:

As someone who has played wvw for nearly 3.5 years now, I am very much enjoying the new direction it is heading. They are making some great changes, implementing much needed and long overdue features, and most importantly they are actually communicating, taking feedback into account with polls and live beta tests, and trying to fix what doesn’t work or is broken.

Do people not remember when they didn’t even acknowledge that wvw existed? When we would get screwed over with no updates, no fixes, no communication for months at a time.

Of course there are things that can be improved, and stuff that I personally am not crazy about. But really they deserve a lot of credit for this new direction, and I really look forward to what is in store for the future.

I much prefer this steady stream of updates, features, changes, and fixes rather then a hyped up event here and there that burns out a bunch of people. Or making massive changes with no feedback, communication whatsoever. Even if I don’t agree with or like everything that is being done, I am realistic and don’t expect perfection. They are on the right path, and if some people don’t want to be a part of it and move on, well that’s your choice to do so.

Oh yea, I certainly remember when Anet basically ignored wvw’s existence.

And I completely agree with your above post. It has been extremely refreshing to see the current level of communication Anet is trying to establish and maintain with the wvw playerbase.

Swagger.1459:

Ok, gw2 is 4 years old… and what? Don’t make strong improvements to WvW?

They just made a slew of improvements that effect WvW and some that are direct WvW upgrades. On top of that they are directly soliciting user feedback for future changes.

Swagger.1459:

Player attrition happens, so what? You don’t think Anet wants more players playing and spending money?

WvW is a small player base for them. It is only a fraction of their entire player base and likely a small one. I speculate that WvW is a loss leader for ANet.

Swagger.1459:

GW2 has a healthy population except in WvW, hence the needed linking, or did you somehow miss that emergency bandage?

Virtually every MMO that divides its populations up has server mergers typically within the first year or two. I said GW2 populations are healthy not that they are at their highest levels.

Swagger.1459:

You are obviously not aware of some rvr games coming out, one of which will take a chunk of pvp minded players here unless more than server linking and reward tracks happen…

I Alpha’d one of them and IMO it isn’t nearly as good as GW2 unless a player likes MMOs from about a decade ago. Crowfall is still a long way away best I can tell. There has only been one other successful RvR game and it was a fraction of the player base GW2 has. At DAoC’s peak population it wasn’t as big as GW2 is today… not even close.

Swagger.1459:

Edit- I find certain comments very interesting, it’s almost as if some of you want WvW to remain a subpar experience…

It is not like there is another game out there doing it better or even in the same ballpark. DAoC… nearly killed their RvR in third year with ToA and it had a relatively small population. ESO RvR… that flopped. SWToR, they had to remove their large scale combat from the game completely. Warhammer… bwahhahahha. CoR… whew swing and a miss. WoW… no RvR and what they do have isn’t as good.

To me going from 24 to 12 servers only increased the stale boring server fights we get locked into for months on end. If your at the bottom you will remain at the bottom if your at the top you will remain at or near the top.
I don’t know what the fix is but I do know this is getting seriously old and not fun anymore. The mass transfers killed WvW and I do not believe it can be re-balanced at this point. I am primarily a WvW player and I have just about lost hope for GW2.

Straegen.2938:

It is not like there is another game out there doing it better or even in the same ballpark. DAoC… nearly killed their RvR in third year with ToA and it had a relatively small population. ESO RvR… that flopped. SWToR, they had to remove their large scale combat from the game completely. Warhammer… bwahhahahha. CoR… whew swing and a miss. WoW… no RvR and what they do have isn’t as good.

As an RvR game mode, most other games did it better than GW2/WvW, some of them had other failings (Warhammer for example), but the actual design of the game mode I’d say WvW is pretty flawed and compares poorly, the redeeming part of WvW isn’t the RvR it is the combat or rather it was, since the HoT powercreep the combat in this game has taken a big downturn (same for PvP), which I guess why that at least on EU you can see the decline has set in again and the brief boost from alpine/stab change has worn off.

Straegen.2938:

At DAoC’s peak population it wasn’t as big as GW2 is today… not even close.

Which is pretty meaningless given it was over a decade ago and there were far less people playing MMOs fullstop, I mean you could equally say DAoC at its peak had a much larger share of the MMORPG market than GW2 ever had.

Swagger.1459:

But here is the thing… 95% of game development efforts have gone to PvE.

Too be fair, 95% of the player base are probably not interested in WvW. All the effort goes into PVE, which is often to the detriment of WvW (in terms of imbalanced builds).

And too many WvW players are too invested in their PVE builds to accept a separation of PVE and WvW builds.

At least Anet are working on population balance.

I find it extremely interesting that DaoC is brought up so much in wvw discussions. (I know I bring them up way too often) They were truly the first mmorpg to get wvw/rvr right, imo. And yea, that game had a ton of other problems….especially ToA…….but they pretty much showed every other mmorpg out there how to do wvw.

Even with the dated graphics and slow movement, if they weren’t charging a monthly sub, I would probably still play that game every once in awhile. Played it for 10+ years, and their wvw was something special(except for the horridly long cc….that was over the top…lol)

That being said, I do love GW2’s wvw, even with all the problems.

Wanderer.3248:

Swagger.1459:

But here is the thing… 95% of game development efforts have gone to PvE.

Too be fair, 95% of the player base are probably not interested in WvW. All the effort goes into PVE, which is often to the detriment of WvW (in terms of imbalanced builds).

And too many WvW players are too invested in their PVE builds to accept a separation of PVE and WvW builds.

At least Anet are working on population balance.

Agreed. GW2 was built as a PvE game first, then PvP, and lastly a wvw game. I consider us fortunate to actually having Anet paying attention to this portion of the game, finally.

Straegen.2938:

Swagger.1459:

Ok, gw2 is 4 years old… and what? Don’t make strong improvements to WvW?

They just made a slew of improvements that effect WvW and some that are direct WvW upgrades. On top of that they are directly soliciting user feedback for future changes.

Swagger.1459:

Player attrition happens, so what? You don’t think Anet wants more players playing and spending money?

WvW is a small player base for them. It is only a fraction of their entire player base and likely a small one. I speculate that WvW is a loss leader for ANet.

Swagger.1459:

GW2 has a healthy population except in WvW, hence the needed linking, or did you somehow miss that emergency bandage?

Virtually every MMO that divides its populations up has server mergers typically within the first year or two. I said GW2 populations are healthy not that they are at their highest levels.

Swagger.1459:

You are obviously not aware of some rvr games coming out, one of which will take a chunk of pvp minded players here unless more than server linking and reward tracks happen…

I Alpha’d one of them and IMO it isn’t nearly as good as GW2 unless a player likes MMOs from about a decade ago. Crowfall is still a long way away best I can tell. There has only been one other successful RvR game and it was a fraction of the player base GW2 has. At DAoC’s peak population it wasn’t as big as GW2 is today… not even close.

Swagger.1459:

Edit- I find certain comments very interesting, it’s almost as if some of you want WvW to remain a subpar experience…

It is not like there is another game out there doing it better or even in the same ballpark. DAoC… nearly killed their RvR in third year with ToA and it had a relatively small population. ESO RvR… that flopped. SWToR, they had to remove their large scale combat from the game completely. Warhammer… bwahhahahha. CoR… whew swing and a miss. WoW… no RvR and what they do have isn’t as good.

Bolded part… There will be, that’s the point.

Teon.5168:

Wanderer.3248:

Swagger.1459:

But here is the thing… 95% of game development efforts have gone to PvE.

Too be fair, 95% of the player base are probably not interested in WvW. All the effort goes into PVE, which is often to the detriment of WvW (in terms of imbalanced builds).

And too many WvW players are too invested in their PVE builds to accept a separation of PVE and WvW builds.

At least Anet are working on population balance.

Agreed. GW2 was built as a PvE game first, then PvP, and lastly a wvw game. I consider us fortunate to actually having Anet paying attention to this portion of the game, finally.

Sure, something is happening, but what does wvw offer to pvp minded players a year from now to keep them and to grow the wvw playerbase?

Swagger.1459:

Straegen.2938:

Swagger.1459:

Ok, gw2 is 4 years old… and what? Don’t make strong improvements to WvW?

They just made a slew of improvements that effect WvW and some that are direct WvW upgrades. On top of that they are directly soliciting user feedback for future changes.

Swagger.1459:

Player attrition happens, so what? You don’t think Anet wants more players playing and spending money?

WvW is a small player base for them. It is only a fraction of their entire player base and likely a small one. I speculate that WvW is a loss leader for ANet.

Swagger.1459:

GW2 has a healthy population except in WvW, hence the needed linking, or did you somehow miss that emergency bandage?

Virtually every MMO that divides its populations up has server mergers typically within the first year or two. I said GW2 populations are healthy not that they are at their highest levels.

Swagger.1459:

You are obviously not aware of some rvr games coming out, one of which will take a chunk of pvp minded players here unless more than server linking and reward tracks happen…

I Alpha’d one of them and IMO it isn’t nearly as good as GW2 unless a player likes MMOs from about a decade ago. Crowfall is still a long way away best I can tell. There has only been one other successful RvR game and it was a fraction of the player base GW2 has. At DAoC’s peak population it wasn’t as big as GW2 is today… not even close.

Swagger.1459:

Edit- I find certain comments very interesting, it’s almost as if some of you want WvW to remain a subpar experience…

It is not like there is another game out there doing it better or even in the same ballpark. DAoC… nearly killed their RvR in third year with ToA and it had a relatively small population. ESO RvR… that flopped. SWToR, they had to remove their large scale combat from the game completely. Warhammer… bwahhahahha. CoR… whew swing and a miss. WoW… no RvR and what they do have isn’t as good.

Bolded part… There will be, that’s the point.

I am sure hoping so. By that time, GW2 will be very long in the tooth and I will be ready for some game maker to take a stab at cool WvW with a better graphics engine, and possibly the knowledge of avoiding mistakes from other games that attempted that mode.

Games evolve over time. Hopefully, I will see some game maker evolve beyond the attempts made by DaoC and Gw2, and find a way to make a more exciting and effective form of WvW/RvR.

And no, that does not mean I am giving up on GW2. Far from it, at this point in time.

Swagger.1459:

Bolded part… There will be, that’s the point.

Remember when Warhammer, ESO, CoR, etc was going to be the next big RvR thing? I do and only one Western RvR since DAoC has been an unqualified success.

Crowfall is so far out nobody knows and any number of things can kill it. I have been in Camelot since the Alphas and old school is definitely the play style. I am sure some will like it but others particularly those used to playing newer MMOs will be in for a big adjustment. CU could still fail under its own weight and is way behind schedule. They aren’t even in Beta stage yet and their first Betas are really Alphas.

zinkz.7045:

As an RvR game mode, most other games did it better than GW2/WvW, some of them had other failings (Warhammer for example), but the actual design of the game mode I’d say WvW is pretty flawed and compares poorly, the redeeming part of WvW isn’t the RvR it is the combat or rather it was, since the HoT powercreep the combat in this game has taken a big downturn (same for PvP), which I guess why that at least on EU you can see the decline has set in again and the brief boost from alpine/stab change has worn off.

Warhammer had the worst class imbalances of any game ever. ESO… similar problems to Warhammer (not as bad but still bad) and the game mode is grind centric. CoR… wow did that flop. Aion also poor implementation. DAoC is probably the best comparison but smaller populations, key press style combat and a myriad of really bad game design decisions post launch. I really cannot think of a better RvR game than GW2. If you can name one, I would like to play it.

zinkz.7045:

Which is pretty meaningless given it was over a decade ago and there were far less people playing MMOs fullstop, I mean you could equally say DAoC at its peak had a much larger share of the MMORPG market than GW2 ever had.

DAoC never really surpassed UO and was dwarfed by EQ both games that came out well before it. When the WoW Beta landed a couple years after DAoC’s launch, well that pretty much nuked everything. Peak DAoC populations only existed for 1-2 years. After that it fell into relative obscurity.

As for GW2, it has seen over 5 million sales of the game (not including free accounts) in a market plagued by failure after failure. To call GW2 anything but a massive success in an era of so many failed AAA MMOs is disingenuous. DAoC had a couple of horrible expansions by its forth year that drove most of their RvR players out of the game (myself included).

So GW2 is a successful mmo that is wasting away portions of their game.

Don’t have a feature if you’re not willing to put a strong effort back into that feature at some point right?

GW2 wants to advertise in the mmo space and tout successes, but the reality is still there despite the numbers…

http://m.ign.com/articles/2015/10/23/guild-wars-2-hits-7-million-players-as-expansion-launches

GW2 didn’t do so well converting free players into box sales. Nor did the increase in free players make any noticeable bump in wvw populations.

http://fortune.com/2015/11/24/areanet-investing-in-esports/

3.1 million monthly concurrency, but here is wvw struggling.

Why was there such low appeal to convert free players? Why lower than expected box sales overall? Why is wvw still in condense mode? Why wasn’t something done after each tournament having permanent losses to the wvw playerbase?

im having fun. the game will lose appeal and eventually die. an unavoidable truth.

Stand The Wall.6987:

im having fun. the game will lose appeal and eventually die. an unavoidable truth.

Ok, but wouldn’t you rather have GW2 improve as much as possible? I know the devs certainly do because that means more $.

RodOfDeath.5247:

I think gw2 in general has no bright future.

There’s more people watching Microsoft Flight Simulator than guild wars 2 right now on twitch tv lol

To be fair GW2 is hard to watch on video. Its way too fast and its hard to tell what’s going on. Plus all the effects.

Johje Holan.4607:

RodOfDeath.5247:

I think gw2 in general has no bright future.

There’s more people watching Microsoft Flight Simulator than guild wars 2 right now on twitch tv lol

To be fair GW2 is hard to watch on video. Its way too fast and its hard to tell what’s going on. Plus all the effects.

Compare current to past viewership. It’s gone down drastically in the past few months.