Guild Wars 2

Hi guys,

The 24/7 concept of WvW has ever been a big design failure. There will never be any balance in WvW, as long as servers are able to dominate their bracket during the nighttime, while they constantly loose during daytime.
You crush an opponent during the daytime and win every zerg-fight, build up your T3 Towers and Keeps, spending tons of gold on the upgrades. And then you come back the next day, and everything is gone, because there is always this one server, that has zergs of 60 people on every map, whereas your server hasn’t 60 people on all maps together, because there are no no-livers on your server that can play all night long. The nightshift server only wins the bracket because there is no one from your server there, to fight against during nighttime. (yes, I’m looking at you, Vizunah Square)
I don’t know what anet’s definition of balance is, but this system is far from being balanced. And it has been for over a year. Enough time to really look into the problems of their content, which they obviously didn’t.

Best,

Krumbotor

You may remember Devon Carver blog at june 5, on the Future of WvW:

“Right now our game rewards you for holding an objective, not necessarily for taking it, and overwhelmingly favors the last server to log out for the day. We have some ideas in the pipeline to try to increase scoring when people are playing the game and to make it much more difficult to keep your territory without actively guarding it.”
https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/devon-carver-on-the-future-of-world-vs-world/

A pity that it was just another unaccomplished promisse.

When the edge of the mists come out we can all play there and not in the WvW borderlands, few if any will play there, even now a proper wvwer would know that ppt is just an arbitrary number, Most people will be in Edge of the Mists and its overflows, much to the discontent on devon carver who wants server “competition”

competition, yes, but not only competition for coverage.

Where coverage is so dominant that everything else is insignificant.

Krumbotor.9064:

The nightshift server only wins the bracket because there is no one from your server there, to fight against during nighttime. (yes, I’m looking at you, Vizunah Square)

Morningshift please. http://mos.millenium.org/servers/view/9/126
Don’t worry US primetime in EU zone is back for you http://mos.millenium.org/servers/view/9/128 , don’t talk about night if you don’t play at night.

WvWvW is 24/7 design, deal with this, we deal with this.

The dominance of off-time over prime-time has to be nerved for all times not only night, day as well.

The emptier a match the more important is coverage of that time for match-outcome.
This is a paradox with respect to all possible times.

Dayra.7405:

The dominance of off-time over prime-time has to be nerved for all times not only night, day as well.

The emptier a match the more important is coverage of that time for match-outcome.
This is a paradox with respect to all possible times.

What primetime? German primetime when the French were still eating? Spanish primetime when the German raidoff ? and Russians ? EU zone have to deal with cultural issues not only timezone. And everybody will be bored if we fight only our other national servers.

Dayra.7405:

You may remember Devon Carver blog at june 5, on the Future of WvW:

“Right now our game rewards you for holding an objective, not necessarily for taking it, and overwhelmingly favors the last server to log out for the day. We have some ideas in the pipeline to try to increase scoring when people are playing the game and to make it much more difficult to keep your territory without actively guarding it.”
https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/devon-carver-on-the-future-of-world-vs-world/

A pity that it was just another unaccomplished promisse.

Actually not, we are slowly getting there. The adding of points for stomping is an example of this. I am not saying it is enough, but Devon has to take it slowly and I do have to agree with him. WvW is heading in the right direction (finally!)

SpehssMehreen.5897:

When the edge of the mists come out we can all play there and not in the WvW borderlands, few if any will play there, even now a proper wvwer would know that ppt is just an arbitrary number, Most people will be in Edge of the Mists and its overflows, much to the discontent on devon carver who wants server “competition”

Untrue, Devon has said that if this new map is more popular that the current WvW it could at some point replace it. They even hope it will be really popular because that will show them that the things they learned from the current WvW map enabled them to make an even better map.

@OP: You can’t punish people that play at night. Because for some night is actually day and their effort for the server should be equally rewarded as the people that play in the so called ‘prime’. I don’t say it doesn’t create imbalances, but it is the only way for now. Only thing I can say is have fun and don’t care to much about PPT, because trust me, you’ll start hurting your real life if you do that too much.

GrandMechantLoup.8201:

Dayra.7405:

The dominance of off-time over prime-time has to be nerved for all times not only night, day as well.

The emptier a match the more important is coverage of that time for match-outcome.
This is a paradox with respect to all possible times.

What primetime? German primetime when the French were still eating? Spanish primetime when the German raidoff ? and Russians ? EU zone have to deal with cultural issues not only timezone. And everybody will be bored if we fight only our other national servers.

Lol, primetime is not a specific point or interval in the time of a specific timezone.

Prime-time of a match is the time where most people (of all sides) are in the match.
In upper tears this usually means: the time where all three sides have queue on all or at least most maps. This may be different time for different matches, and even different for different days of the same match.

To select a threshold:
Prime-time start when more than 1000 people are in the match.
Off-time starts when the number of people drops below 1000.
(assuming 4*3*100 = 1200, as the match-capacity.)

Anyhow, this should not be binary depending on a threshold, but dynamically based on the amount of people actually in the match.

Here is just another proposal how this can be done:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/wuv/wuv/Night-protection-1/3326019

MiLkZz.4789:

@OP: You can’t punish people that play at night.

At least I do not want to punish them, BUT I want to end their dominance of match outcome.

Another possibility is to separate the 24h into different slices, that play separate matches:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/wuv/wuv/Night-protection-1/3281118
3 matches running 8/7 over a week, (or 4 matches running 6/7). Then the night-player may fight for the night ranking of their server, the day players fight for the day-rank of their server and the evening players fight for the evening rank of their server.
Smaller server may compete with larger servers by focussing in one slice, larger servers will likely go to fight to win several slices.

To make my post more precise: I’m talking about 1:00 am to 6:00 am CET. That’s when most of your keeps and towers fall to the enemy who has overwhelming presence in WvW during the night. Gw2 is a game and it should be possible for normal people with normal schedules to have fun during normal times, to build something up. Who the kitten sits in front of the computer all night, to raid the enemy? And don’t come up with the “don’t play if you don’t like it or deal with it”, that’s just lame. I love guildwars, but I hate anet for limiting the games possibilities.

Krumbotor.9064:

Hi guys,

The 24/7 concept of WvW has ever been a big design failure. There will never be any balance in WvW, as long as servers are able to dominate their bracket during the nighttime, while they constantly loose during daytime.
You crush an opponent during the daytime and win every zerg-fight, build up your T3 Towers and Keeps, spending tons of gold on the upgrades. And then you come back the next day, and everything is gone, because there is always this one server, that has zergs of 60 people on every map, whereas your server hasn’t 60 people on all maps together, because there are no no-livers on your server that can play all night long. The nightshift server only wins the bracket because there is no one from your server there, to fight against during nighttime. (yes, I’m looking at you, Vizunah Square)
I don’t know what anet’s definition of balance is, but this system is far from being balanced. And it has been for over a year. Enough time to really look into the problems of their content, which they obviously didn’t.

Best,

Krumbotor

What are you going to do ban other countries from playing?

It’s not like people are trying to be sneaky about the whole thing – you need to realise that people live in other time zones.

Well… Isnt the answer simple? Remove ppt. Only allow score per kill and per capture (say 25/75 ratio).

Problem solved. Even if a server completely dominate the night and hold ALL the keeps against absolutely no one attacking them… They get nothing more than the points for capping said keeps. The next day, they have to prevent the enemy from capping them to “keep” the points. In other words, holding a keep for a certain period of time (until tick) doesnt exist. You have to hold a keep period or the enemy get score for taking it.

It solves both the night time and outmanned one fell swoop (outmanned buff would obviously not give points for the enemy). It focus the points to where the actual battles is – the rest of the already capped/reinforced/million arrowcart sieged map is “dormant”.

Never going to happen though. Anet cannot “fix” WvW without remaking it from scratch. At best, I hope for commander functions. But… well… 1.5 years later…

SpehssMehreen.5897:

When the edge of the mists come out we can all play there and not in the WvW borderlands, few if any will play there, even now a proper wvwer would know that ppt is just an arbitrary number, Most people will be in Edge of the Mists and its overflows, much to the discontent on devon carver who wants server “competition”

This man speaks the truth. As soon as EotM hits, the original 4 borderlands are going to be deserted for a very long time.

Krumbotor.9064:

To make my post more precise: I’m talking about 1:00 am to 6:00 am CET. That’s when most of your keeps and towers fall to the enemy who has overwhelming presence in WvW during the night. Gw2 is a game and it should be possible for normal people with normal schedules to have fun during normal times, to build something up. Who the kitten sits in front of the computer all night, to raid the enemy? And don’t come up with the “don’t play if you don’t like it or deal with it”, that’s just lame. I love guildwars, but I hate anet for limiting the games possibilities.

Only kids think that everybody go to bed at 1:00 AM CET. In real world some kittens work when you “normal people” are sit in front of your computer, some kittens don’t sleep, some kittens are unemployed/at home, some kittens are in vacation, some kittens are in other timezone.

SpehssMehreen.5897:

When the edge of the mists come out we can all play there and not in the WvW borderlands, few if any will play there, even now a proper wvwer would know that ppt is just an arbitrary number, Most people will be in Edge of the Mists and its overflows, much to the discontent on devon carver who wants server “competition”

WvW isn’t about competition, its about coverage. Should the winners get better rewards for having better coverage? Its not showing they won because superior strategy and tactics. But only that they had more people around the clock then their “competitors”.

The only thing that superior rewards for the winners would do, is cause players to server hop to the server with the most coverage so they can win.

GrandMechantLoup.8201:

Krumbotor.9064:

To make my post more precise: I’m talking about 1:00 am to 6:00 am CET. That’s when most of your keeps and towers fall to the enemy who has overwhelming presence in WvW during the night. Gw2 is a game and it should be possible for normal people with normal schedules to have fun during normal times, to build something up. Who the kitten sits in front of the computer all night, to raid the enemy? And don’t come up with the “don’t play if you don’t like it or deal with it”, that’s just lame. I love guildwars, but I hate anet for limiting the games possibilities.

Only kids think that everybody go to bed at 1:00 AM CET. In real world some kittens work when you “normal people” are sit in front of your computer, some kittens don’t sleep, some kittens are unemployed/at home, some kittens are in vacation, some kittens are in other timezone.

Lol, did you really had to tap into this trap-question?

Night is when there are less than 350 people (sum up all sides) in a WvW-match.

Keep/Castle/Tower-Lords disappear and Ticker-score is shutdown, whenever there is that low interest in a match. Camp-capture, Stomping and Dolly kills still work and score as usual.

Note, that one side alone can “activate” the match by filling up ALL 4 maps, i.e. capacity per side is around 400, boykott doesn’t work.

Krumbotor.9064:

To make my post more precise: I’m talking about 1:00 am to 6:00 am CET. That’s when most of your keeps and towers fall to the enemy who has overwhelming presence in WvW during the night. Gw2 is a game and it should be possible for normal people with normal schedules to have fun during normal times, to build something up. Who the kitten sits in front of the computer all night, to raid the enemy? And don’t come up with the “don’t play if you don’t like it or deal with it”, that’s just lame. I love guildwars, but I hate anet for limiting the games possibilities.

some people dont sit in front the comp, for them thts their offtime. Lot of people work evenings and nights, or freelance. The world doesnt only exist for you

There are people on NA off hours that work and have families. They don’t live in their parents basement and are not people with no life.

Maybe you should come out of your own parents basement before calling whole time zones of player “no-lifers” just because they play on your off hours.

CreativeAnarchy.6324:

There are people on NA off hours that work and have families. They don’t live in their parents basement and are not people with no life.

Maybe you should come out of your own parents basement before calling whole time zones of player “no-lifers” just because they play on your off hours.

Jokes on you he lives in their attic.

Krumbotor.9064:

because there are no no-livers on your server that can play all night long

Cause no other time zones exist except yours and if another time zone does exist then the Online game should only be played according to 1 servers prime time.

Did I understand that right?

Let’s make WvW only playable between 5pm – 9pm Australian time essentially locking out any EU and any NA, or am I being selfish with that idea?

Aza.2105:

SpehssMehreen.5897:

When the edge of the mists come out we can all play there and not in the WvW borderlands, few if any will play there, even now a proper wvwer would know that ppt is just an arbitrary number, Most people will be in Edge of the Mists and its overflows, much to the discontent on devon carver who wants server “competition”

WvW isn’t about competition, its about coverage. Should the winners get better rewards for having better coverage? Its not showing they won because superior strategy and tactics. But only that they had more people around the clock then their “competitors”.

The only thing that superior rewards for the winners would do, is cause players to server hop to the server with the most coverage so they can win.

I’m confused. Spehhs never said anything about rewards there. He only pointed out that Devon insists upon hanging on to server matchups when the last 15 months have shown it to be such a failure in terms of balance. DC has even stated unequivocally that he doesn’t believe that balance is important in WvW, which of course is probably why the population balance CDI never went anywhere.

Spehss is probably correct … Edge of the Mists is likely to be the number one destination for WvW’ers, at least until a better game comes out, simply because it has a greater chance of being balanced.

oh man another one of these threads!look there are no oceanic serers and it is an international game. so yeah i work during the day and sometimes till 2am in the worning. only on sundays id be able to play with my na friends. so if they changed it i could never play again unless i deleted all my characters to go to a eu server or pay gems. also i do not wish to play on a eu server as i like the community which im in. if anet would enforce something that would affect my play time like i cannot get ppt or anything because i play off time, id simply quit the game.