Guild Wars 2

From the Release Notes (WvW section):

• Area-of-effect revive skills no longer revive NPCs from dead.

Does this mean no more bannering the Lord? Apologies if this has already been discussed.

yup its about time they fixed that.

amem to that…

No longer will that stray warrior banner a lord and deny my WXP and karma and no longer will my enemies boast about that 2 hour garri fight with 15 banners and 200 loot bags because those fights were the worst, I mean seriously, who the hell wants to fight other players, im just there for your karma, let the EoTM people have thier PPT.

sephiroth.4217:

No longer will that stray warrior banner a lord and deny my WXP and karma and no longer will my enemies boast about that 2 hour garri fight with 15 banners and 200 loot bags because those fights were the worst, I mean seriously, who the hell wants to fight other players, im just there for your karma, let the EoTM people have thier PPT.

Yeah! Because Warriors running in and using Battle Standard (over and over) to revive the Keep Lord is the true essence of player versus player combat.

My jaw dropped when I read this. I’m with sephiroth, some of the best fights i’ve ever gotten in wvw only waged on because of lord bannering. IMO the fights are the fun part, not getting the xp/etc, I could easily get that from pve :/

No more Wars/Necros/Ele Lord rezzes? Hey now you can just blob rush structures, cap it and be done with it. Who cares about protracted fights and all that boring stuff.

A bit dissapointing update imo…
Bannering lord over and over was a bit too much sometimes but think it would be better if they just put cooldown on ressing Lord or death penalty on Lord (like its now with players) that it can rally only number of times and each time has less health…

A very regrettable and disappointing decision. I think this epitomises an unhealthy “our way or the high way” attitude. It’s my opinion that WvW should be about players expressing innovation via siege placement, battle tactics and overall strategy. The degree to which these are actually allowed to happen is debatable, but bannering the Lord allowed for interesting methods of delaying/preventing enemy captures. I think it’s a mistake to take away fun things, especially ones that help thwart massive blobs.

Banners Hold RIP

I think there is a much happier ground between not bannering and constant bannering. Banner and the like now borders on under-powered due to the very long cool down that ability has.

From my end, this is a bizarre and unwelcome change. As background: My play is almost exclusive to WvW. I have been in countless fights in keeps, on offense and defense, where reviving the Lord NPC has been a factor. We have won due to bannering and won despite bannering; we have lost due to bannering and lost despite bannering. Sometimes these contests will stretch for thirty or forty-five minutes or more of intense waves of combat.

In all these encounters, with many guilds and groups, and thus scores of players — win or lose — I have never heard anyone — from the dedicated to the casual — complain about the fact one can revive the Lord NPC. Based on my knowledge of the players with whom I have run (which includes considering their own comments) I expect that the sample I have experienced is fairly representative, if not of the whole playerbase, then at least of WvW participants. I’m sure there are people who disliked it, but if I haven’t encountered them before today (and then only on the forum), I doubt they are many.

The thrill of rushing through a legion of red nameplates to throw a flag at a loyal dead charr; the visceral immersion of standing guard over a corpse, eyes peeled for would-be saviors charging recklessly toward you and hammer readied to send them hurtling away again — this is gone now. I assume that, as with most changes, we will, significantly, never be told why this was done. And that will make it the most disappointing.

The same day they introduce disabling grenades, theoretically to augment a small force’s capacity to defend (though of course they can similarly bolster an assault), they remove this tactic and cripple a small force’s capacity to defend. Are these folks even communicating?

It’s quite simply explained: it got in the way of the karma train.

Notice how the upper tier players don’t like it, and it’s what the lower tier players have been asking for in threads going back over a year?

In before someone says “empty PvDooring servers”.

For the record, it’s a good change.

I agree with Rimmy, This is a change that was asked for over and over and over on these forums because quite frankly a server shouldn’t be able to hold a keep by death rushing and resurrecting the lord over and over. It becomes a war of attrition at that point which puts the attacking side at a huge disadvantage, especially if the keep has a waypoint. It is a positive addition to the game, especially for servers rank 13 and below that don’t have the huge blob running 24 hours a day.

Vermillion.4061:

So in other words defending has gotten a lot harder now and you can’t delay for your group to go from citadel to gari anymore.

That’s what contesting is for, not continuous bannering until the enemy gets bored and leaves.

Ok, fair enough. I am not sufficiently familiar with the experience on lower tier servers to have considered the viewpoint with due thoroughness. That said, I must ask: How bad is it? Are you capping keeps with 5 people? Fewer? With an assault of, say, 20-25, a bannered Lord tends to be alive for only a few more seconds before requiring another banner. I could understand a much smaller force would need more time, which could prove ultimately costly.

I also recognize that the solution elected — eliminate all AoE resurrection on NPC’s — is doubtless simpler from a coding perspective than would be implementing some sort of cap, but it also seems an inferior answer.

However, I remain unconvinced. Was this really the reason for the change? One sweeping switch to benefit only underpopulated servers? I’m as anti-blob as the next guy, but are circumstances such that the size of the groups that are the best offense that can be mustered on these servers means they lack the hands to deal with bannering? If this is the case, was this the best solution? If this is not the case, what was the cause?

As someone who has bannered plenty of lords, I’m glad they made this change, it was stupidly broken. No one character should be able to contest a point so long with such minimal effort.

For those complaining, you can still rez the lord, it just will take a little bit more effort than hitting a single button while running around on a bulky warrior with stability and virtual CC-immunity.

One of the worst changes. The problem with lord bannering was never with The Lord being able to be Rezzed by one banner. But because the warrior is able to trait for double endure pain and anti imob traits. and ignore all imobs and damage for a lifetime before being able to banner The Lord while everyone watch helplessly.

I feel that anet took the easy way out by removing all bannering instead of nerfing endure pain (eg, negate 85% dmg instead of 100%) which would’ve been a better choice instead of outright removing it.

RIP T3 keeps during off hours and long epic 1 hour lords room fight. The only tatic that outnumbered servers have against bigger groups during their weakest timezone has just been removed from the game.

Makes scouting that much more important in advance, rather than 1 warrior running in and bannering the dead lord over and over before it’s too late.

And lord’s room siege.

I welcome this change, it seems like many will need to focus a bit more on quick response time, and better communication to defend now.

This happened last night to my server.
We had the keep lord killed, almost halfway to capture, then the enemy group comes and revives him, and we all got wiped. It would’ve been a great fight, since the teams were pretty much even, but the keep lord gave them an advantage.

storiessave.3807:

This is one of the changes I’m most annoyed about, tbh. I don’t play a warrior, but I found it fun to have to watch for kamikaze warriors as you’re trying to cap something, whether you’re part of a small havoc group or a big blob.

It was always fun to have extended fights – yes, it annoyed people when a lord might get bannered 2-3 times in a row, but I still found it exhilarating, and it is really the only way you can “contest” a cap while your server’s backup gets there to fight whoever’s capping. Now, blobs will roll over everything and there will be no way to save a tower or keep before it’s flipped.

I don’t think this is a positive change, personally, and I don’t see the reason for it. They could’ve put a cap on how many times an NPC can be bannered or something, but I’ve never seen a lord bannered more than 2-3 times before you can flip a tower or keep. That’s hardly excessive.

2-3 times is nothing. I have been in gari fights where the lord got bannered 30-40 times in a row, possibly more, but we stopped counting after a while.

Incidentally, at least a few of them against your server, so …..

Also, when I was on lower tiers, I forgot which server it was against maybe DH or GOM, but I remember several gari matches where the enemy would literally switch to 30ish or 40ish all warrior alts and do nothing BUT exclusively banner.

These were horrid fights, if the lords got bannered only 2-3 times as you say no one would ever have any problem with it and bring it to devs attention. On the flipside, the devs should have left the 2-3 times alone, its the ones after that which was the problem.

As far as defense tactics go, well, couple posts below, or above is about the OPness of the new siege disablers, so you focus your defenses differently now. Another words, its a change, break from staleness.

It is a good change for those who dislike strategy.

Even thinking that wasn’t so much problem, more for garr fights but everywhere else was fine but at the end I think was the right think to do.

Anet does have this uncanny knack for completely random changes that usually do more harm than good to their game, usually those changes also water down some specific mechanic in the game and take away something that actually for different reasons made the gameplay exciting.

This change is one of those changes, albeit not the worst example one could find in the history of their updates, but still… pretty bad.

More power to blobbing and zerging and less tactics. I don’t really care though.

I like this change. Sure, the long, drawn-out fights were occasionally fun, but it was a broken mechanism. Any way to make taking T3 objectives easier is welcomed. Force that smaller group defending against an invading force to actually fight that invading group with some coordination and skill. No more waiting for the friendly blob to show up. You can still contest, too.

Yes, it’ll allow enemy blobs to take objectives quickly, but small skill groups can churn through those blobs. And if you haven’t spotted those large blobs coming, then you need better scouts.

Also, keep in mind that power rezzing a dead Lord is still an option for you stealthy thieves or tanky Wars/Guards.

The “No bannering” change isn’t a good change. I’m sorry that there are people on servers with 6 people trying to take keeps but whats good for the goose isn’t necessarily good for the gander. Medium ground would have been to give the lord some kind of rez sickness;less and less hp each banner(3 times?) until it dies and there’s a cooldown 10 min cooldown when it can be bannered again, but it still can be manually rezzed. Even then, banners were not the problem, Warriors were. Necros and Eles could “banner” but they couldn’t just face roll and be immune to everything while doing so. This isn’t going to make people want to sit around more and watch structures. There will probably be less and less people who give a kitten but the charts and metrics will look great when all the PvE AP hunters drop in for S3 so it’s a success!

This eliminated interesting counterplay or even clutch comebacks, stupid and poorly thought out change.

Why not just give the lord a debuff so he cannot be hard ressed again for x amout of seconds/minutes?

The group with more warriors shouldn’t always win… This change prevent that.

You still can contest it
Banner chaining a lord sometimes was fun but mostly annoying and clearly a design fail

Lazy change. Should have just made it only ressable once every 5 minutes or something. Not being resable at all just encourages more pvd and less fighting.

Also warriors weren’t the only ones who could res the lord with a skill, those other classes’ skills are now utterly uselses in every game mode now.

I’m honestly amazed that some people think that bannering the lord was good and ‘strategic’ mechanic.

Yeah, those 1-2 hour Garrison fights with 100-200 Lord resses were awesome weren’t they? Just reset the fight whenever you want to.

Thankfully, you can still hard ress, so fire up those Rune of Mercy thieves.

Bubi.7942:

I’m honestly amazed that some people think that bannering the lord was good and ‘strategic’ mechanic.

Yeah, those 1-2 hour Garrison fights with 100-200 Lord resses were awesome weren’t they? Just reset the fight whenever you want to.

Thankfully, you can still hard ress, so fire up those Rune of Mercy thieves.

What do you think is more fun to have: a 2 hour garri fight with 100 lord resses, or a 0 minute fight where someone golem rushed your garri and you couldn’t get your full group there in time to defend?

Bubi.7942:

I’m honestly amazed that some people think that bannering the lord was good and ‘strategic’ mechanic.

Yeah, those 1-2 hour Garrison fights with 100-200 Lord resses were awesome weren’t they? Just reset the fight whenever you want to.

Thankfully, you can still hard ress, so fire up those Rune of Mercy thieves.

Yep acutally 1-2 hour garrison fights were what made WvW fun and exciting. You may find it hard to believe but I don’t find farming and flipping 2 undefended castles and a keep in 5 minutes the kind of siege pvp that i was hoping to get from WvW.

Strangely, some of us enjoy combat more than constant brainless running, flipping and objective farming. 0o

This change gives more power to “get a huge blob and crush everything that comes in your way” and less power to smaller groups that fought well for an hour and finally managed to drive the bigger group out of the keep. How is that good?!

And I’m not saying that bannering Lord was a perfect design, but this “fix” only makes WvW worse and even amplifies some serious problems that plague WvW.

Ever heard of contesting?

The good fights are those which last hours on end, without either side bannering the lord non stop.

As for the no bannering anymore, scouts will be more important for calling out incoming enemies, numbers and locations. (Players will have to watch objectives closer to avoid waiting until swords pop to respond.)

I really hope they made scouting rewarding in the same patch. If you have to sit in a tower or keep for an hour or two or even more while everybody outside is having tons of fun, it’s necessary to be kept entertained in any way.
With that bannering change scouts will be even more important and it won’t be any easier to find people who really want to do that as long it is as boring and unrewarding as it is.

Mishi.7058:

The good fights are those which last hours on end, without either side bannering the lord non stop.
…

Yeah…and they often happen because the lord kept getting bannered…

Mishi.7058:

… (Players will have to watch objectives closer to avoid waiting until swords pop to respond.)

Sounds like fun!

RIP Yaks Bend. What will your server do now?

Bubi.7942:

Ever heard of contesting?

Contest vs blob = 0 seconds of contesting time.

gennyt.3428:

Mishi.7058:

The good fights are those which last hours on end, without either side bannering the lord non stop.
…

Yeah…and they often happen because the lord kept getting bannered…

Mishi.7058:

… (Players will have to watch objectives closer to avoid waiting until swords pop to respond.)

Sounds like fun!

Actually prior to my break they happened due to groups being very organized and very little bannering. However people used tactics, along with siege, and could drive off the enemy, or defeat the defenders and secure the objective. Then again maybe that was only tiers 1/2

How dare a positive change be made!!!

Bubi.7942:

Ever heard of contesting?

Oh yeah right, how could I be so stupid to forget about CONTESTING with 10 ppl versus a 40-50 man blob.

Next time a huge blob melts through our garri I’ll make sure to suggest we simply contest the kitten out of it all and laugh in their face. I’m sure at least 50% of them will just ragequit when they see our mighty contesting slowing their progress.

style.6173:

It is a good change for those who dislike strategy.

Lord rez ? Strategy ????
ROFL … I see now what Warriors consider as strategy.

Svarty.8019:

Bubi.7942:

Ever heard of contesting?

Contest vs blob = 0 seconds of contesting time.

Exactly. Small numbers can’t contest against a map blob, which is typically what you are going to encounter in any keep-defense situation. Managing to get in a banner is (was) pretty much the only way to buy some extra time for reinforcements to show up.

Yet another kick in the shins to defenders and a friendly nod to the k-train.

Kicast.1459:

style.6173:

It is a good change for those who dislike strategy.

Lord rez ? Strategy ????
ROFL … I see now what Warriors consider as strategy.

No you don’t, because you see lord bannering as strategy. Lord bannering is not a strategy, however it does open up various strategic options for defending the keep.

But obviously blobbing your way through the keep is strategic to you? Because that’s what we’ll see even more from now on.

samo.1054:

Bubi.7942:

Ever heard of contesting?

Oh yeah right, how could I be so stupid to forget about CONTESTING with 10 ppl versus a 40-50 man blob.

Next time a huge blob melts through our garri I’ll make sure to suggest we simply contest the kitten out of it all and laugh in their face. I’m sure at least 50% of them will just ragequit when they see our mighty contesting slowing their progress.

Sorry to say, but you won’t win a “40-50” v. 10 in the lord room even with banners.

The option to slow the cap and opening up time for reinforcements is still there. All that was taken away was that a single ilvulnerable guy can reset the whole process. And about 5 of them can do this infinte times.

This was a good step. Notice step. Next should be buffing defenses a bit.