Guild Wars 2

Wow, I’ll practically be able to flip any camp anywhere with impunity. Even with white swords it was about 50:50 that someone would come along.

The chances of someone coming to defend a camp without white swords are really low.

Empty BL.

Split Zerg into 2-4 man teams.

Attack every objective at once.

Watch the entire map flip at the same time.

To all the people saying “It gives small groups a chance to take towers”. Really? Is that what you want? To kill a door and a few NPCs then pat yourselves on the back? Whether it’s helping small teams or zergs(and it will) it’s still promoting PvDoor. Your 5 man group flips and empty tower and the zerg steamrolls it back 5 minutes later, not even in GW2’s meager scheme of things did your actions matter, gg.

This will kill solo roaming, when I go around capping camps I expect swords to call attention and therefore have a fight. Now I’ll just cap camps
Not to mention swords gave roaming another taste, once swords popped clock started ticking. That’s what makes it exciting

No idea who actually thought that no white swords was a good idea. In fact, it is a horrible idea.

The only thing worse than no changes is making bad changes. Bad approach.

The purpose of this game is to have fun. Sitting around doing sfa in a tower is not fun. There is nothing difficult to understand here yet Anet just don’t get it. What is wrong with them?

Removing white swords is nonsensical. Sticking a few people across the map to sentry doesn’t “break the zerg” even assuming that it doesn’t already happen.

Instead of toying with the idea of removing white swords entirely, which is assuredly doomed to fail, the white sword mechanic should be re-tuned.

Camps can be handled differently as they have different requirements (e.g. they flip fast for solo/small groups and a zerg can flip it before 30 seconds are even up) from towers & keeps.

Gates/walls should parse how much damage is being done to them. If the damage/time is indicative of heavy damage, e.g. 5 rams or a golem rush, white swords should pop immediately. If it’s 2 rams worth of damage, maybe it should stay 30 seconds, as it is now. If it’s 1 ram, maybe it should take 45 seconds or some number over 30. If it’s 1 guy hitting a gate for 10 damage, no swords should pop at all, until some significant damage has been totaled (like 1% gate hp). And perhaps these numbers should all be tweaked based on the structure’s upgrade status.

Logical solution:

Variable time for white swords to pop based on # of players on the map (more = a bit longer), and completely re-balance the stupid siege disable trap.

Really disappointing that this is still going forward despite near universal objections to it, but at least it’s a test at first.

In real life any large force moving around would be spotted, so what we should have is any blob of 20 or more marked on the map. Contacts with enemies should appear on the map as these would also be reported.

Instead, we get the last indications of where the opposition is removed from the map, making it either ‘stand in tower and do sweet fa for a few hours, there’s a good chap, don’t mind us we’ll carry on gaining goodies’ or just join the karma train and forget about having scouts or defenders.

Stupid kitten is stupid.
Simple as that.
Clueless dev is clueless.. also as simple as stupid is .

So yeah, remove swords.. remove map and remove wvw because what is the point when they has no idea..

No more holding a borderland with 10 people vs blobs.

Merlin Dyfed Avalon.5046:

Stupid kitten is stupid.
Simple as that.
Clueless dev is clueless.. also as simple as stupid is .

So yeah, remove swords.. remove map and remove wvw because what is the point when they has no idea..

No more holding a borderland with 10 people vs blobs.

… doubtless you’ll be back to apologise and correct yourself in a couple of weeks.

Svarty.8019:

Merlin Dyfed Avalon.5046:

Stupid kitten is stupid.
Simple as that.
Clueless dev is clueless.. also as simple as stupid is .

So yeah, remove swords.. remove map and remove wvw because what is the point when they has no idea..

No more holding a borderland with 10 people vs blobs.

… doubtless you’ll be back to apologise and correct yourself in a couple of weeks.

Maybe.. maybe not..

If I am on a server that can hold their border 10 vs 50 because of those swords then you won’t see me back.

If i would move to over stacked servers like every little muppet is doing then yes i won’t complain because we are winning either way.

Instead of White Swords…it would be cooler to have black smoke slowly rise from the facility being attacked….

ANET… let us help you skip the testing and tell you how stupid this idea is… It is dumber idea then when you added blood-lust (prior to nerf) and almost everyone told you it was a dumb idea.. You didn’t listen and waited for ‘data’.
No white swords will lead to karma trains… anyone that tells you different either doesn’t play wvw exclusively or trying to kill your game faster then you. During low coverage hours people will just karma train and no white-swords will lead to players just running around scouting, which is important part of the game but the LEAST enjoyable part.

The removal of white swords WILL NOT increase the number of players enjoying WvW.

The removal of white swords WILL NOT increase gem sales.

Choose which ever answer motivates you more but do not remove white swords.

Meh, what a bad change.
This sword-icon is an important indicator for less populated servers or just non-prime times in general.
I am playing on a EU server that is usually around rank 20, we often have scouts for pretty much anything during prime times or at the beginning of a new week, but thats about it. The rest of the week we have to rely on those icons.
I usually am taking the role of a defensive scout roamer, lol. When there is nothing in reach for me to solo or we just generally dont have any stationary scouts I heavily rely on those swords to check out if its just another troll attacking the walls and scouts or something a bit more serious and then alert the commander.
This has been tremendously important for us.

White swords must stay!

Wow. So they’re still gonna do it, despite unanimous opposition:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/wuv/wuv/Adopt-a-Dev-for-the-WvW-Fall-Tournament/page/9#post4513301

This is the definition of not listening to the community.

What’s next? Maybe something like this: “We have heard all the player reactions on SAB. We are listening. Therefore, we have decided that it will never return in game. Let us know your opinions because we’re listening!”

Yes, how dare they do exactly what people shout about all the time? Letting players TEST potential changes?

The fact still remains that the forums are a minority of the player-base. And even that minority have constantly been shouting about being allowed to test upcoming changes. Now we are allowed to test upcoming changes and yet people are raging like mad because of it?

lordkrall.7241:

Yes, how dare they do exactly what people shout about all the time? Letting players TEST potential changes?

The fact still remains that the forums are a minority of the player-base. And even that minority have constantly been shouting about being allowed to test upcoming changes. Now we are allowed to test upcoming changes and yet people are raging like mad because of it?

Yes we can test this, but we already know the outcome so why bother? Removing swords will lead to more ktrains and those people scouting will simply stop with it. Yes forum are a minority but go and ask around on your server how they think about it. I dont think lot of people will agree with this change.

Which is why it is great to actually test it. Then both the players and ArenaNet can see if it works or not.

lordkrall.7241:

Which is why it is great to actually test it. Then both the players and ArenaNet can see if it works or not.

…there’s no need to test this. Everyone who’s played enough WvW knows this is a terrible idea. It’s frustrating because there’s a clear disconnect between the players, who already know the consequences of this change, and Anet, whose stubbornness insists this change still needs to be “tested”.

In my mind, this would be like insisting we “test” whether the apple will fall to the ground when dropped. Anet is like that crazy guy who thinks there’s a chance the apple will fly up.

Oh, so when they don’t let us test things they are the worst company ever for not letting us test things, but when they let us test things they are the worst company every for wasting time?

Keep in mind how much rage and stuff we had about the NPE before people actually played it. Based on voices here it was the worst thing ever and would kill the game. When the update actually happened and people actually started trying it out though, most found it quite good.

There is no harm whatsoever in testing this over a weekend. And the fact that they actually put it up for testing instead of just simply adding it permanently is a rather good thing in my eyes.

lordkrall.7241:

Oh, so when they don’t let us test things they are the worst company ever for not letting us test things, but when they let us test things they are the worst company every for wasting time?

Keep in mind how much rage and stuff we had about the NPE before people actually played it. Based on voices here it was the worst thing ever and would kill the game. When the update actually happened and people actually started trying it out though, most found it quite good.

Some things require testing, and some things don’t. When an idea is so unanimously spurned and so obviously terrible, Anet does more harm by “testing” it than by simply nipping it in the bud.

By disregarding overwhelming player feedback, Anet appears very out-of-touch with the player base and very ignorant about how WvW works.

lordkrall.7241:

There is no harm whatsoever in testing this over a weekend. And the fact that they actually put it up for testing instead of just simply adding it permanently is a rather good thing in my eyes.

Except they said they’d be testing this for multiple weeks, likely in the month of December. Multiple weeks of karma trains, PvDoor, and inability to detect enemy movements? No one who actually plays WvW would think that’s good for WvW.

Don’t bother with him, he would even agree if they locked his account for no reason.

And yea testing is a nice thing, but do it with something useful. Rather then this whole terrible idea we all know what is going to happen so testing this , is not needed.

Lord Kuru.3685:

Wow. So they’re still gonna do it, despite unanimous opposition:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/wuv/wuv/Adopt-a-Dev-for-the-WvW-Fall-Tournament/page/9#post4513301

This is the definition of not listening to the community.

I disagree; reading that post was something of a relief. They aren’t going to issue a permanent change and completely ignore us – they are trying a multi-week test to see how it works. That’s … reasonable. I still don’t think it will work well, but at least they are willing to do a temporary test first.

After all, the changes provide enough space for further changes to mechanics (provided by Anet) and play styles (required from us).

If they leave us without swords without compensation to emphasise on defense, active play and communications, that’d be bad. As long as we don’t know if they give us some tools neccessary to tackle these, I’d keep calm and wait for what they’ll throw at us in December, though.

Haworth.4561:

A lot of people who upgrade towers, camps, and escort dolyaks and scout, are going to be burned out and might simply give up after this change.

I already gave up on wvw after siege disablers came in. Now we need something to counter siege disabler, so we remove white swords. Anet, just admit that siege disabler was a bad idea and scrap it.

Also, if you’re moving toward encouraging scouting, you need to make it just as rewarding as blobbing.

maeggle.6021:

After all, the changes provide enough space for further changes to mechanics (provided by Anet) and play styles (required from us).

If they leave us without swords without compensation to emphasise on defense, active play and communications, that’d be bad. As long as we don’t know if they give us some tools neccessary to tackle these, I’d keep calm and wait for what they’ll throw at us in December, though.

Let’s keep quiet and wait, after all they won’t release commander tags with each color sold separately, right?

The time to give Anet the benefit of the doubt, when it comes to WvW, has long passed.

rhapsody.3615:

I already gave up on wvw after siege disablers came in. Now we need something to counter siege disabler, so we remove white swords. Anet, just admit that siege disabler was a bad idea and scrap it.

It’s a habit of Anet to fix mistakes in roundabout ways, frequently introducing more mistakes. They do these all the time with skill balancing screw ups.

Horrible idea. Nothing more to say. Karmatrain inc

This means I will be running around the maps like a headless chicken, blindly guessing where the action might be. It’s going to be tough to find any small scale fights without the white swords as I usually avoid the orange ones and try to track down the camp flippers and a-likes instead.

Luvpie.8350:

No white swords will lead to karma trains… anyone that tells you different either doesn’t play wvw exclusively or trying to kill your game faster then you.

Or likes karma trains and PvDoor, thinks that’s the apex of WvW play, and wants to encourage more of it. Plenty of people seek to get a kick out of it in EotM.

Personally, I’m starting to think they could solve the whole problem of population imbalances and giving the inevitable losers a fighting chance or a reason to show up and play by creating a PvE map full of WvW objectives defended by (slightly — don’t want to make things too hard for the karma train) tougher NPCs that everyone can endlessly defeat while all playing on the same winning side.

GreyWraith.8394:

I disagree; reading that post was something of a relief. They aren’t going to issue a permanent change and completely ignore us – they are trying a multi-week test to see how it works. That’s … reasonable. I still don’t think it will work well, but at least they are willing to do a temporary test first.

While I’ve expressed similar sentiments, the question remains open as to how, exactly, they are going to kitten whether the test was a success or failure and how they’ll determine whether to keep the change or revert it back. How are they going to tell if it’s a success or failure? Are they going to poll? Are the people who don’t like it going to have to boycott WvW to express their displeasure? Are they going to look at scores? By what criteria is a change a failure or success?

Berk.8561:

GreyWraith.8394:

I disagree; reading that post was something of a relief. They aren’t going to issue a permanent change and completely ignore us – they are trying a multi-week test to see how it works. That’s … reasonable. I still don’t think it will work well, but at least they are willing to do a temporary test first.

While I’ve expressed similar sentiments, the question remains open as to how, exactly, they are going to kitten whether the test was a success or failure and how they’ll determine whether to keep the change or revert it back. How are they going to tell if it’s a success or failure? Are they going to poll? Are the people who don’t like it going to have to boycott WvW to express their displeasure? Are they going to look at scores? By what criteria is a change a failure or success?

There’s no need to measure failure or success if your plan is to declare success regardless of outcome. Easy, right?

Lord Kuru.3685:

Berk.8561:

GreyWraith.8394:

I disagree; reading that post was something of a relief. They aren’t going to issue a permanent change and completely ignore us – they are trying a multi-week test to see how it works. That’s … reasonable. I still don’t think it will work well, but at least they are willing to do a temporary test first.

While I’ve expressed similar sentiments, the question remains open as to how, exactly, they are going to kitten whether the test was a success or failure and how they’ll determine whether to keep the change or revert it back. How are they going to tell if it’s a success or failure? Are they going to poll? Are the people who don’t like it going to have to boycott WvW to express their displeasure? Are they going to look at scores? By what criteria is a change a failure or success?

There’s no need to measure failure or success if your plan is to declare success regardless of outcome. Easy, right?

John: We ran the test weeks and the results were fantastic. We now implement this no white swords as we are really excited about it, hope you guys will be aswell!

Svarty.8019:

I believe this is the right direction, with a tweak. Only remove white swords for whoever is leading the scores at any one time. Done.

This incentivises the other two teams to attack the strongest side as was suggested a very long time ago.

I was gonna post something like this, but This player worded it perfectly. That’s my idea of how it should be done. It’s the only way to keep some balance in wvw. Leading servers like sfr will now have a choice. Abuse hidden white swords, but not lead in points, or have a perma lead on points, but loose the sneak advantage. They lead, so they should not have the most choices, they should have the least, to balance it out.