Supposedly racial elites aren’t supposed to outshine class elites. So why is it that Norns get snow leopard form with a ridiculous 1600 range dash, coupled with a 5 second stealth (on 10s cooldown)? This gives way too much mobility/escapability to classes that don’t have innate mobility, but only if you are a norn. Sure it’s terrible for battling, but that’s not what you’ll be using it for.
Really though, all racial elites should be completely disabled in wvw.
I don’t think the problem lays in the norn elite skill, but rather in the professions own elites. If they rather take elite that has long CD only for its stealth and dash then theres definetly wrong with the professions own Elites.
A Pink scumbag of [FACE] and deep inside a [GuM]ster
Mouggari – Warrior – Candy cane Avenger
You give up so much utility/power by choosing the snow leopard it’s not worth it unless you are just planning to run around (perhaps doing the WvW world completion or running to a JP).
Pray tell me what good would this elite skill do without the mobility?
I rarely run with it, but quick switching to Snow Leopard is handy to rush inside a tower or to quick contest a supply camp about to flip in the distance, while the non-norn zerg catches up.
I don’t think the problem lays in the norn elite skill, but rather in the professions own elites. If they rather take elite that has long CD only for its stealth and dash then theres definetly wrong with the professions own Elites.
Supposedly racial elites aren’t supposed to outshine class elites. So why is it that Norns get snow leopard form with a ridiculous 1600 range dash, coupled with a 5 second stealth (on 10s cooldown)? This gives way too much mobility/escapability to classes that don’t have innate mobility, but only if you are a norn. Sure it’s terrible for battling, but that’s not what you’ll be using it for.
Really though, all racial elites should be completely disabled in wvw.
then again, that mad 1600 dash is the ONLY thing its good at… and at most you get 3 of those, so thats 5200 dash, on a 240 sec cooldown. Albeit, its better then the Ranger Elites by far, so dun nerf it… or i will have nothing to put on my Rangers “0” slot
Lv 80 Guard, Ranger, Ele, Thief, warr, engi
Currently @ some T1 server in EU
Wow. The only good escape ability and a player cries nerf. Unbelievable. I’m constantly amazed at what some players whine about while playing certain classes…these elites aren’t that good anyway. They are unusable in most situations because they deny access to all other skills. But seriously a player who plays a class with all kinds of escapes whining about something like this…..
Most people who don’t roam have no idea how kittening OP Snow Leopard is and thinks it’s a joke. Definitely wish I had rolled Norn on my necro, as I would happily trade my other elites for gtfoh button when roaming.
The snow leopard is a pretty cool elite but you give up quite some power during the fight just to be able to escape. Thieves for example dont even need an elite for that. They can escape at will. So in my opinion it is fair that other classes can get the snow leo to escape once every 4 minutes.
I’de run it on my necromancer if I could since it’s either that, a knockdown with a long cast time, or a I win button for powermancers. Although plague form easily has enough utility to out shine it, it’s a slightly better choice for solo roaming.
Wow. The only good escape ability and a player cries nerf. Unbelievable. I’m constantly amazed at what some players whine about while playing certain classes…these elites aren’t that good anyway. They are unusable in most situations because they deny access to all other skills. But seriously a player who plays a class with all kinds of escapes whining about something like this…..
You just admitted it is a good escape ability. That right there is grounds for nerf. Racial elites should not be good at anything.
I’m not complaining because I can’t get away on ele. Classes like necro and even mes (although they already have good elites snow leopard is still at least viable) have little mobility but if they are a norn they suddenly have access to this ridiculous mobility. However if you play a non-norn necro you are screwed for no reason. Give it to all players and I have no qualms.
…and asura can hide behind smaller objects/larger players 24/7…. humans can use revealing clothing to distract players (dat t3). Please make everything a grey blob with no variety or flavor what so ever.
An ele complaining about other classes using an elite to gain mobility is pretty funny btw.
I don’t even have a norn and I say no to this. (I don’t like them, they’re too big) Rarely is it used. and there’s nothing preventing you from immobilizing them before they take off. Do you just stand there and gawk at them when you see them transform? And Asurans have radiation field which is pretty devastating with it pulsing poison and weakness, and humans have the avatar of melandru, which you could transform into, root them then run away, sylvari have a root thing as well I think. I forget what charr have, but I assume they have something that can be just as annoying as well. The point is, all races have some situational skills that can be annoying. But that’s all they are, situational and easily countered. Why do you think barely anyone uses them? They’re mostly just for fun.
I don’t even have a norn and I say no to this. (I don’t like them, they’re too big) Rarely is it used. and there’s nothing preventing you from immobilizing them before they take off. Do you just stand there and gawk at them when you see them transform? And Asurans have radiation field which is pretty devastating with it pulsing poison and weakness, and humans have the avatar of melandru, which you could transform into, root them then run away, sylvari have a root thing as well I think. I forget what charr have, but I assume they have something that can be just as annoying as well. The point is, all races have some situational skills that can be annoying. But that’s all they are, situational and easily countered. Why do you think barely anyone uses them? They’re mostly just for fun.
I think the charr one is a charzooka and it is pretty bad for the cooldown. Not totally sure but the only elite I use is the warbanner for my charr warrior. Everything else is really bad. Rampage can be ok but you can’t use any other skills except weapon skills and you don’t get to use your own weapons(not sure what others are doing to make this elite useful) .
I speak for my self and no one else. Only fools believe they speak for a majority.
So an elementalist crying that someone got away via 240second cl dash? Sorry, I have only 1 thing to say about this: WHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHHAHAH
Sorry what? I cant remember the last time I could get away from someone as ele. Lighting Flash and RTL might be nice and stuff. But any thief just catches up 3 seconds later. And sadly 90% of roaming WvW population are thiefs. I always ask myself if I missed some skills besides RTL, Lighting Flash and mabye Fire 3 to make some distance. Because I dont see a Thief, melee Ranger or a Sword/Horn Warrior lose to Ele any day. And nobody is talking about mobility of those classes.
Running away from stuff like Necros and Guardians doesnt count.
But if you combine something like a Ranger (or really a “Closer”, melee version) with the Norn skills it gets quite funny.
I have a Norn thief and I recently started using this exact elite skill for getting in and out of situations while roaming.
I ran into a trio of roamers last night while most of my stealth were already on cool down. I Transformed, stealthed, and burst out of there. I just happened to find another would be 4th enemy charging towards me and while in stealth targeted him with that dash skill and knocked him flat.
I imagine he was very surprised when he got knocked flat on his kitten by a giant invisible snow leopard.
As others have said, it’s fine. The problem is how awful some of the other elite options are. Especially for the Elementalist class. There isn’t a day that goes by where I don’t regret making mine a Sylvari instead of a Norn. It’s also the hardest decision when creating an alt for me these days: do I want cat form, or are this class’ elites worth a kitten ?
Thankfully most other classes in this game actually have good elite skills. Or, at the very least, they aren’t great, but better than a speed boost on a 4min cooldown.
So an elementalist crying that someone got away via 240second cl dash? Sorry, I have only 1 thing to say about this: WHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHHAHAH
Sorry what? I cant remember the last time I could get away from someone as ele. Lighting Flash and RTL might be nice and stuff. But any thief just catches up 3 seconds later. And sadly 90% of roaming WvW population are thiefs. I always ask myself if I missed some skills besides RTL, Lighting Flash and mabye Fire 3 to make some distance. Because I dont see a Thief, melee Ranger or a Sword/Horn Warrior lose to Ele any day. And nobody is talking about mobility of those classes.
Running away from stuff like Necros and Guardians doesnt count.
But if you combine something like a Ranger (or really a “Closer”, melee version) with the Norn skills it gets quite funny.
You also have this awesome greatsword you can drop from the sky and use to spin/dash away with. I noticed you forgot to mention that.
If you’re just turning tail and running you’re doing it wrong. Eles also have multiple ways to CC people trying to chase/hurt them. Use them.
You also have this awesome greatsword you can drop from the sky and use to spin/dash away with. I noticed you forgot to mention that.
If you’re just turning tail and running you’re doing it wrong. Eles also have multiple ways to CC people trying to chase/hurt them. Use them.
Oh yea, forgot that. Thats a viable option. Guess whakittens an elite skill too.
Yes, I am kitten at running away. Most of the time I stay and kill stuff or accept my own death. But my point still stands, other classes have more mobility, but nobody talks about it. Its always Eles or Thiefs.
Never a Necro with perma Conditions and dealing 2k of dmg per tick or the fact that Guards are the backbone of every group play and wihout its not possible to get anywhere.
Supposedly racial elites aren’t supposed to outshine class elites. So why is it that Norns get snow leopard form with a ridiculous 1600 range dash, coupled with a 5 second stealth (on 10s cooldown)? This gives way too much mobility/escapability to classes that don’t have innate mobility, but only if you are a norn. Sure it’s terrible for battling, but that’s not what you’ll be using it for.
Really though, all racial elites should be completely disabled in wvw.
No combative player is going to waste an elite like that, so tell me … what’s the difference between a roamer who runs far away at the sight of you and one that runs far away after you jump him? Answer: nothing.
You do your forum name great justice.
D/D Thief who prefers mobility to stealth … so yeah, I die a lot
Stormbluff Isle [AoD]
Supposedly racial elites aren’t supposed to outshine class elites. So why is it that Norns get snow leopard form with a ridiculous 1600 range dash, coupled with a 5 second stealth (on 10s cooldown)? This gives way too much mobility/escapability to classes that don’t have innate mobility, but only if you are a norn. Sure it’s terrible for battling, but that’s not what you’ll be using it for.
Really though, all racial elites should be completely disabled in wvw.
No combative player is going to waste an elite like that, so tell me … what’s the difference between a roamer who runs far away at the sight of you and one that runs far away after you jump him? Answer: nothing.
You do your forum name great justice.
The difference is that the roamer lives, and can keep taking camps/killing Dolyaks/doing stuff without having to run from a waypoint.
Edit: I roam to get points, not for some skill-measuring contest. Does it really matter if losing an elite skill means I cannot kill someone as easily, or at all? Killing them isn’t going to get points, but being able to reset the fight over and over again (see Thief stealth, Norn Elite, pre-nerf RTL) means I don’t have to worry about dying to a larger force, and can keep taking important objectives.
I still wouldn’t want to see it nerfed just because a few bads refuse to bring an immobilize skill with them and think they can just mow everything down with all attack skills before it can get away. I remember how much it sucked when RTL got nerfed. And no the sword wouldn’t make up for it unless mist form hadn’t also been nerfed. If you’re in a situation where you need to run, standing there for 4 seconds to summon the kitten thing isn’t helping. If I had known RTL and mist form was going to be nerfed, I would have made my ele a norn and just dealt with the fact that I find them physically repulsive. If I hadn’t invested so much time in my guardian, i’d remake him as a norn since guardian is so painfully slow and their elites aren’t that fantastic anyway. the invincibility one is nice, but stealthing and running away is better.
I’d be more inclined to say mobility needs a nerf. There’s so much importance in one’s ability to run away and reset the situation…
Also, WvW is exactly where racial elites should be.
Don’t say that. Because if they nerf mobility, given how brilliant Anet is at making decisions, they’ll nerf everyone except thieves who in all honesty are the ones who need the biggest nerf in mobility to begin with. It never made sense to me that someone who’s stealthed could run so fast. How the hell do you sneak around while sprinting? I’d like to know how to accomplish that, i’d be robbing banks left and right if I could sneak around running at top speed and not be noticed. But I guess this is a game and doesn’t have to make sense despite the fact that in every other MMO when a character is sneaking around in stealth their mobility is actually REDUCED cuz ya know, they’re sneaking around!
It’s not just about mobility people… you need to take into consideration the cc abilities of the classes as well. It’s rare that another class can stop my eng from getting away should I chose to ditch the fight… and I don’t have perma switfness or even rocket boots. Many of those same things I use to get away, I can also use to keep others from getting away. Guardian is similar to in this respect as well.
@ Nik… Thief has been nerfed enough. It’s not top tier 1v1 nor is it good for groups. It’s a pretty poor class overall unless you’re contesting, ganking yaks, or scouting. Btw a-net said they want to increase thief mobility, not lower it.
Wait..so we have thieves/mesmers/guardians with broken and OP mechanics -especially in wvw- and you are complaining about one form for one race among all 5 where the majority of that race players don’t slot it?
Before they nerf that form they need to nerf thief mobility for which people have been complaining for a YEAR in TONS of thread.
And yes to be fair, the dash is outrageous and needs to be nerfed significantly. Combined with stealth it can get you past zergs easily.
I run a necro Norn and I can just break out of any fight/zerg chase I want. I rolled a necro norn because necros have crap escape abilities.
Supposedly racial elites aren’t supposed to outshine class elites. So why is it that Norns get snow leopard form with a ridiculous 1600 range dash, coupled with a 5 second stealth (on 10s cooldown)?
It is 1600 range. Period.
Plus there’s a long activation time on the transform that gives enemies plenty of time to stun, cripple or imobilise.
Not only that, you need to untarget first, otherwise it does the Elementalist RTL trick of pulling you back into trouble.
That means you can’t use autotargeting any more. All in all, it’s a clumsy elite to use.
What we have here is an L2P issue. If you think it’s so great, roll a Norn and see how useful it is. Then you can figure out a counter.
It doesn’t need to be nerfed. Are people really that stupid that they can’t bring an immobilize skill with them? Its the same bull that got RTL nerfed when you could always immobilize someone before they got away with it. But no, its zerker everything and only damage abilities, and if someone gets away they’re OP right? Typical zergling mentality. That’s why we can’t have nice things. when you see him transforming, freaking immobilize him! he’s not going anywhere and they’re stupidly easy to kill transformed since they don’t have access to their regular skills.
Pain Inverter and Technobabble…Both were/our incredibly powerful abilities for a Ranger.
Both require Asura, and I wouldn’t have it any other way, I love builds that use things like this…Dumbing down the game to SPvP level is not what I call a good thing.
If someone thinks their Elites aren’t amazing, and they think Norn Atleast would be useful….More power to them.
So an elementalist crying that someone got away via 240second cl dash? Sorry, I have only 1 thing to say about this: WHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHHAHAH
Sorry what? I cant remember the last time I could get away from someone as ele. Lighting Flash and RTL might be nice and stuff. But any thief just catches up 3 seconds later. And sadly 90% of roaming WvW population are thiefs. I always ask myself if I missed some skills besides RTL, Lighting Flash and mabye Fire 3 to make some distance. Because I dont see a Thief, melee Ranger or a Sword/Horn Warrior lose to Ele any day. And nobody is talking about mobility of those classes.
Running away from stuff like Necros and Guardians doesnt count.
But if you combine something like a Ranger (or really a “Closer”, melee version) with the Norn skills it gets quite funny.
Yeah. But perhaps the problem there is thief, not that Norn Elite that I’ve seen used perhaps 10 times. All it gives is an escape card every 240 seconds, and perhaps some warriors (like my guildie) can use it to Troll Shot from stealth.
Really, stop playing that PVT tank if you don’t want people to get away.
It is 1600 range. Period.
Plus there’s a long activation time on the transform that gives enemies plenty of time to stun, cripple or imobilise.
Not only that, you need to untarget first, otherwise it does the Elementalist RTL trick of pulling you back into trouble.
That means you can’t use autotargeting any more. All in all, it’s a clumsy elite to use.
What we have here is an L2P issue. If you think it’s so great, roll a Norn and see how useful it is. Then you can figure out a counter.
It goes farther than the listed 1600 range. If you hold the button down, it goes closer to 3000. You have enough time to use it twice, so 6000 distance total.
Also, when you start transforming into snow leopard, you can use the stealth right away, before the animation finishes. This improves your chances of not being CC’d.
All of that said, if Snow Leopard is better than your class elites, then it is the class elites which need help. Snow Leopard is 2-3 casts of 5 seconds of stealth and 2 long-range charges, on a 240 second cooldown using up your elite slot. If you are willing to give up your elite slot for such a skill, it is not snow leopard’s fault…
This is part of a larger problem, where generally elites suck. Ask yourself, if you were allowed to slot a utility skill in the elite slot, would you?
Gate of Madness | Leader – Phoenix Ascendant [ASH]
Niniyl (Ele) | Barah (Eng) | Luthiyn (War) | Niennya (Thf)
This is myTrahearne’s story
I love all the people resorting to calling me out for maining an ele. Stick to the topic or get out. Yes I like to see imbalanced things nerfed, regardless of class/race. I have a thief and a norn (how I even found out about this ridiculous elite), but it won’t stop me from targeting them.
And notice how many replies my topics get? Evidently the things I am requesting are only giving voice to popular opinion.
As to the above sentiment, I would also prefer a normal utility in place of my elite.
I think people are missing the real issue here. The Snow Leopard elite is perfectly fine. The problem is, there are profession elites so badly designed and underpowered they get outshined by this situational, long cd, 30 second duration one trick pony racial skill.
Instead of crying for nerf of the racial, we should demand devs to actually buff the subpar profession elites. As of now, there are professions that have one or even none viable elite skill. And that’s just on land, underwater it’s even worse.
lol norn leets are pretty worthless apart from using it to run away lol this seems like a waste of time. It sounds to me like someone was trolling you and it worked. I should stay out of the forums too many good ideas lol.
I see good ideas every day …good in theory. – Shawn Farthing
Masters in Geek Mythology
YOU ARE NOT THE INVENTOR OF WORDS!!! lol
It is 1600 range. Period.
Plus there’s a long activation time on the transform that gives enemies plenty of time to stun, cripple or imobilise.
Not only that, you need to untarget first, otherwise it does the Elementalist RTL trick of pulling you back into trouble.
That means you can’t use autotargeting any more. All in all, it’s a clumsy elite to use.
What we have here is an L2P issue. If you think it’s so great, roll a Norn and see how useful it is. Then you can figure out a counter.
This is part of a larger problem, where generally elites suck. Ask yourself, if you were allowed to slot a utility skill in the elite slot, would you?
since i play a ranger, hell yeah!! I would. I would run with 2 spirits and 2 traps. Making all your lives miserable.
Lv 80 Guard, Ranger, Ele, Thief, warr, engi
Currently @ some T1 server in EU
Supposedly racial elites aren’t supposed to outshine class elites. So why is it that Norns get snow leopard form with a ridiculous 1600 range dash, coupled with a 5 second stealth (on 10s cooldown)? This gives way too much mobility/escapability to classes that don’t have innate mobility, but only if you are a norn. Sure it’s terrible for battling, but that’s not what you’ll be using it for.
Really though, all racial elites should be completely disabled in wvw.
I rerolled my guardian just for snowleopard for solo roaming. It was the best decision I ever made pertaining to guardian, and you’re bad for saying it needs nerfed.
Jeeez! lighten up people. Anet have said the elites generally are intended to be a bit of candy-floss, not particularly useful, just something to add a bit of individual style to the classes and races. None of them are worth squat compared to a slot-skill .
I don’t hear anyone complaining about the town clothes they were given. (My great hulking Norn Guardian looks utterly stupid in his frilly pyjamas)
