Guild Wars 2

Extra proofs can be used for siege.

I think having them soulbound is really stupid in my opinion. That’s like saying ‘in order for you to use tomes of knowledge on your warrior, you must earn those tomes of knowledge only on a warrior in pvp’.

I mean, really?

By having them soulbound, what we end up with is leftover soulbound proofs of heroics that become useless because you’re hoping that when you open up that chest of the mists you just happen to make a perfect 10 proofs of heroics to hand in. My ele always has 1 proof of heroic leftover, and same with my revenant. If they weren’t soulbound perhaps I’d actually be able to make use of them.

Furthermore, to back up my reasoning on why making them soulbound is so stupid, is the fact that the chests of the mists are account bound. So you can give the proofs of heroics to other characters (as it should be in my opinion), but instead, the chests of the mists don’t stack. So you have to put in umpteen chests into your bank, clogging up valuable space, all because the proofs of heroics are soulbound (despite them being transferable via account bound chests of the mists). So stupid…

/rant

Tyler Bearce.3427:

The chest, containing Proofs, being account bound is a bug. Earning specializations (skills and traits) is intended to be character progression. Ex: If you want to fully train up your warrior, you actually need to play your warrior for some amount of time. I say some amount of time since Tomes of Knowledge have allowed players to bypass a lot of existing character progression.

Why do the pve players get training wheels then? Why don’t they have to earn masteries per character?

Tyler Bearce.3427:

The chest, containing Proofs, being account bound is a bug. Earning specializations (skills and traits) is intended to be character progression. Ex: If you want to fully train up your warrior, you actually need to play your warrior for some amount of time. I say some amount of time since Tomes of Knowledge have allowed players to bypass a lot of existing character progression.

Hi Friend,

Although character progression is important, this will reduce the speed at which people will adapt the metagame, and will probably lead to some specs getting written off as “unviable” when they aren’t actually, instead of having people try the ones that need more specialized situations or compositions.

WvW ranks are account bound.

Masteries are account bound.

Ascended and Legendary Gear are account bound.

PvP rank is account bound.

Something is not adding up with the explanation …………

They are taking active measures to discourage WvW, it just doesn’t make sense. If “character progression” was really a thing, why aren’t mastery per character?

SoulstitchMMO.1396:

They are taking active measures to discourage WvW, it just doesn’t make sense. If “character progression” was really a thing, why aren’t mastery per character?

Because it was supposed to be alt friendly, but only in PvE and sPvP apparently. Even at the initial HP cost it was still more alt friendly in PvE than in WvW, but people complained about the time it took to get one character through with the mastery levels necessary to rush repeats through, and people complained about the HP’s themselves being too difficult (some of them legit were hard as kitten), and hey guess what? They were all scaled back – less mastery levels needed, less challenging HP’s, less HP total to unlock the specializations.

AND YET these things are supposed to be character bound? You’re kidding, right?

I will just say that comparing things, what Anet is asking from WvW players would be the same as asking any PvP player to win 250 unranked/ranked matches with each character to unlock the elite specialization.

Outrageous right? However not, apparently, for WvW players.

azyume.6321:

I will just say that comparing things, what Anet is asking from WvW players would be the same as asking any PvP player to win 250 unranked/ranked matches with each character to unlock the elite specialization.

Outrageous right? However not, apparently, for WvW players.

This so much. PvE players can just get all the masteries on one toon, then for every other alt they play it’s a matter of just running around collecting hero points. No grind, just run directly there, get it and go to the next one.

What kinda crap is Anet trying to pull? No matter what you still have to grind out levels. Making them soulbound is just a slap in the face for wvw.

I still love having to work 200x as much as our better rewarded and loved pve counter parts… (Yes it’s a bump… This issue still makes me mad and anet hasn’t replied since the comment of concern)

Proofs of Heroics should be account bound...period. What do my fully unlocked Druid or Reaper want with these tokens? Superior siege? Because I can no longer use them at vendor, I took my Chronomancer to Queensdale to get hero points...level 80, fully geared, grinding through that map...is this "progression?" When Anet talks about "character progression" it sounds as if the existence of a fully realized character is some sort of affront to them.

Tyler Bearce.3427:

The chest, containing Proofs, being account bound is a bug. Earning specializations (skills and traits) is intended to be character progression. Ex: If you want to fully train up your warrior, you actually need to play your warrior for some amount of time. I say some amount of time since Tomes of Knowledge have allowed players to bypass a lot of existing character progression.

Okay so first, thank you for venturing in here, which is a rarity, to explain something.

Second, I think that perhaps you people at ANet should understand that, it seems, every time you come in here it’s with some news that players feel is not thought out very well.

Third, it might be a good thing if you people at ANet actually sat down and read what people here post. Not the whiteknights that make you feel fuzzy about what you are trotting out every time you make a post, but the players that are really chapped about things. These threads won’t make you feel fuzzy, but they will give you a much better idea about what your players think about the direction the game mode we enjoy is going.

The flaw with the character progression idea is that nobody in their right mind would go to WVW for character progression. It’s a place full of expert players armed to the teeth who will insta-kill somebody who isn’t an experienced level 80 armed to the gills. With the new maps it’s a LONG run back to where you died.

PVE is the place for character development. There you have a choice of what level you play at.

With the various change issues about the only good things about WVW now are that it’s good for dailies and building bonds with guildies. It USED to be attractive as a way to pick up hero points for secondary characters in your stable as well but that has been taken away.

People with both mature and developing characters don’t want to be spending a lot of time on leveling if they have fully mature characters too. Once you have a level 80 ascended armor dude with elite specs this is where the gold for your account is going to come from. This is what you want to be playing. Lower level characters are mostly good for log chopping and digging out iron or turning karma into linen while you accumulate tomes and mats for more ascended armor.

ANET needs to think more like a player. Players are looking at their play from the view of what benefits the account overall, not so much about an individual character. It’s ACCOUNT progression that matters.

Glass Hand.7306:

ANET needs to think more like a player. Players are looking at their play from the view of what benefits the account overall, not so much about an individual character. It’s ACCOUNT progression that matters.

Frustrating thing is when they originally changed WvW masteries to be account bound they seemed to get this. Now they’ve seemingly backtracked on that, probably because they want to restrict the acquisition of elite specs as much as possible whilst retaining an illusion of bending to what WvW players want with the proofs of heroics.

Guys. You can make your elite spec in pve within an hour. Just tag up and run around. There are very good descriptions on the net. Do it while waiting in EB Q. Thats how i done it with my revenant.

WvW rewards have always been pants. Many things are still unavailable, such as but not limited to, runes, sigils, most new item types (i.e. sinister), skins, ascended back, ascended armor, ascended weapons.

This poor reward state no doubt has a part to play in the downfall of WvW participation. Even if it was not intented for Proofs to be shared to other characters, nerfing WvW rewards even further at this point i cannot comprehend when there are so many more pressing issues.

It is logic but another small nail in the WvW coffin ….

When will the developers understand that WvW IS Endgame.

Come on now. What irritates me most about this, is that pve players don’t have to gain Masteries per Character, and Masteries make getting pve heroic challenges a cake walk.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Proof-how-disconnected-Anet-is-with-players/5825768

So do I have you folks right on this?

• Wxp is a account bound system. It makes very little sense to soulbound it, because in theory you could play 90% of a level on characters you need masteries for you wanted to gain mastery for, but as long as you ding your level on a character that doesn’t, you won’t, which defeats the purpose of supposedly playing the character you want to gain masteries first. This already waters down the concept of so called character based progression.

• Laziness is a red herring because account bound or soulbound does not reduce the total amount of hero points required. If you have 8 characters, you’ll need 2000 hero points total regardless of what you do. Furthermore, due to how WvW works, you can’t just bring any alt onto the battlefield in any given time. It is irresponsible because unlike in open world, you double downing can greatly ruin a fight thanks to the rally mechanic. One good example is someone that wants to bring a druid in a big fight; a lot of commanders aren’t going to really appreciate you running with them as base ranger for long periods of time. If someone had wanted notaries to unlock a HP account wide, now that would be greed.

• As an aside, WvW has some of the worst rewards based system. There may be a perception that it also a rather bad place to gain masteries yet unlike pvp not having the masteries actually matters. Furthermore, it is still faster to go to Vedant brink and just do them there assuming you have some degree of Central Tyria mapped. Key word: opportunity cost and direct comparisons to pve cannot be considered fair.

• If your rebuttal consists of “go to pve”, then I think that is evidence that the system in World vs World is not very good. Workarounds are generally suggested to get around something that isn’t working properly.

ArchonWing.9480:

So do I have you folks right on this?

• Wxp is a account bound system. It makes very little sense to soulbound it, because in theory you could play 90% of a level on characters you need masteries for you wanted to gain mastery for, but as long as you ding your level on a character that doesn’t, you won’t, which defeats the purpose of supposedly playing the character you want to gain masteries first. This already waters down the concept of so called character based progression.

• Laziness is a red herring because account bound or soulbound does not reduce the total amount of hero points required. If you have 8 characters, you’ll need 2000 hero points total regardless of what you do. Furthermore, due to how WvW works, you can’t just bring any alt onto the battlefield in any given time. It is irresponsible because unlike in open world, you double downing can greatly ruin a fight thanks to the rally mechanic. One good example is someone that wants to bring a druid in a big fight; a lot of commanders aren’t going to really appreciate you running with them as base ranger for long periods of time. If someone had wanted notaries to unlock a HP account wide, now that would be greed.

• As an aside, WvW has some of the worst rewards based system. There may be a perception that it also a rather bad place to gain masteries yet unlike pvp not having the masteries actually matters. Furthermore, it is still faster to go to Vedant brink and just do them there assuming you have some degree of Central Tyria mapped. Key word: opportunity cost and direct comparisons to pve cannot be considered fair.

• If your rebuttal consists of “go to pve”, then I think that is evidence that the system in World vs World is not very good. Workarounds are generally suggested to get around something that isn’t working properly.

That is an excellent summary. I would like to add one important thing:

Experience gained in WvWvW currently doesn’t account for anything. Maybe later Arenanet will add some WvWvW related masteries, but in the meanwhile it would be nice to direct experience gained in WvWvW to either Tyria or HoT masteries.

I know it doesn’t make sense, but the current mastery system doesn’t make sense either. How is killing spiders in HoT pve maps teach you gliding or Nuhoch Lore?

WvWvW definitely needs more incentives to play it, not less!

Thanks, that’s a definitely a talking point and I should have fitted it under point #3— it’s a key reason why PvE and WvW cannot be compared directly.

If you walk around Verdant Brink, it’s fairly hard not to be rewarded. Pretty much everything you do will contribute to participation and earn you some steel chest of some kind. This includes helping people out with champs that guard hero points… And that gets your masteries done and you can progress. This encourages cooperation. This is simply not the same for World vs World. It’s just extremely rare in PvE that you will come out with nothing or less than you already had, except in the most difficult of content and that’s mostly a player issue. And you really don’t want people to feel they wasted their time.

On the other hand, Wxp generally rewards selfish behavior more, but that’s an entirely different can of worms.

Sure, I understand a lot of people don’t care about the reward system, but often times it’s the thought that counts. And while some of the HoT maps few like a nicely gift wrapped present, WvW’ers get…. Well, I wouldn’t mind a lump of coal at this rate.

The effects of this decision are even worse than just discouraging you from playing the way you want and the way that is beneficial to your side. I am already forced to keep an eye on the WXP bar all the time and switch characters when it gets close to turning over, to the detriment of both my own play and that of my side. Then, today when I was just doing some quick gathering on my way through the place with a character that didn’t need the trophies I saw a ZvZ brawl at a distance. There was a treb nearby and my bar was only half full, so why not lend a helping hand to my teammates and send some bovine love in the general direction? Huuuuge mistake. A couple of loot bags drop, I collect them and Ping! Rank up! A loot bag had contained a vial of liquid WXP that got auto-consumed. Another wasted chest suggests that this “feature” discourages people from partaking in the game at all, because the expected level of wasting of resources is both uncontrollable and unacceptable.

I don’t understand how Tyler honest can justify in his head that it’s ok to get to just about to level, log out, log in the character you want the chest on, and accept it there. Rather than just throw it in the bank for the character.

This is a Quality of Life issue here. WvW Progress is Account Progression. The reward, is personal? This is not logical. This makes no sense. It’s unncessary tedium to have to log out/in to accept a chest when it could just be passed around, or currency.

Please fix this ridiculousness.

SoulstitchMMO.1396:

I don’t understand how Tyler honest can justify in his head that it’s ok to get to just about to level, log out, log in the character you want the chest on, and accept it there. Rather than just throw it in the bank for the character.

This is a Quality of Life issue here. WvW Progress is Account Progression. The reward, is personal? This is not logical. This makes no sense. It’s unncessary tedium to have to log out/in to accept a chest when it could just be passed around, or currency.

Please fix this ridiculousness.

I wouldn’t blame Tyler this looks like a decision made further up the chain.

morrolan.9608:

SoulstitchMMO.1396:

I don’t understand how Tyler honest can justify in his head that it’s ok to get to just about to level, log out, log in the character you want the chest on, and accept it there. Rather than just throw it in the bank for the character.

This is a Quality of Life issue here. WvW Progress is Account Progression. The reward, is personal? This is not logical. This makes no sense. It’s unncessary tedium to have to log out/in to accept a chest when it could just be passed around, or currency.

Please fix this ridiculousness.

I wouldn’t blame Tyler this looks like a decision made further up the chain.

It was. Tyler is just the sacrificial lamb they trotted out this time.

Please make the chests accountbound again. It is incredibly annoying. Since the change I’ve accidentally gotten 70 proofs on my main WvW character.

Infusion.7149:

Please make the chests accountbound again. It is incredibly annoying. Since the change I’ve accidentally gotten 70 proofs on my main WvW character.

You mean you didn’t log out, log in another character, do one event and get your chest under the guise of “character development”.

Just make both acountbound. It would be a relive. Forcing to play the same PvE content multiple times is grind and nothing WvW or PvP players realy want.