Guild Wars 2

Because Anet doesn’t even play their own game.

Just a minute ago in WvW on my guard, came across condi mesmer, I have 5 cleanses on this build I’m running with meds. Condi mesmer bombs me with 10 confusion and 9 torment in about 2 seconds then i cleared it and went after him, he stealths and comes back to apply another 8 stacks of confusion on me and 6 torment. This goes on 3 more times when I’ve used all my cleanses, 2/3 of those times i had double digits of torment and confusion applied to me in seconds. And now because I have no more clears I’m dodging trying to get away and in the end I died with 21 confusion stacks and 13 torment.

Talk about broken

PU condi + perplex rune, probably the most broken build out there along with D/D celelelele burn blind bots, and since every roamer out there seem to jump aboard the pwnwagon, roaming in wvw is very, very boring now.

wvw is only for ppt now…

you’re just now figuring this out?
don’t forget about this goldmine of information we’ve been told

https://youtu.be/4LhvuomaJaY

Arimas.3492:

Because Anet doesn’t even play their own game.

Just a minute ago in WvW on my guard, came across condi mesmer, I have 5 cleanses on this build I’m running with meds. Condi mesmer bombs me with 10 confusion and 9 torment in about 2 seconds then i cleared it and went after him, he stealths and comes back to apply another 8 stacks of confusion on me and 6 torment. This goes on 3 more times when I’ve used all my cleanses, 2/3 of those times i had double digits of torment and confusion applied to me in seconds. And now because I have no more clears I’m dodging trying to get away and in the end I died with 21 confusion stacks and 13 torment.

Talk about broken

And you play guardian. Immagine who plays ranger….
This game is far from being balanced. And many players are quitting it for this reason.

ANet keeps listening to the PvE players and buffed conditions for some reason when it should’ve been hard nerfed instead.

Funny thing about these mesmer’s running PU Perplex is they will kill you and then dance over your corpse like it took some skill to do it.

Darkness.9732:

And you play guardian. Immagine who plays ranger….
This game is far from being balanced. And many players are quitting it for this reason.

Why should Ranger have a problem? Since trapper they have more stealth than both Mesmer and Thief.

The real shame is that Anet refuses to talk about balance whatsoever and that they balance the game only every six months. So we end up always in a situation where some classes ar OP as kitten like mesmers for six months before they eventually get toned down, if the dev who is responsible for that has a good day, well maybe. That leads to bandwagoning every time, WvW is full of troll mesmers these days and Anet is too stubburn to do something against it or to recognize it as a problem. GW2 is a 100% FOTM game where they kind of force or at least highly encourage such behavior. Balancewise this is the most unprofessional handling in a game i´ve ever seen, and Anet is still dreaming the E-Sports dream, lol, with very limited success.

And to the OP, you can´t fight against such trolls with condi cleanse alone, you have to fight Aids with Aids, if i were you i would respecc to a medi guard and try to burn these mesmers to ashes

Dawdler.8521:

Darkness.9732:

And you play guardian. Immagine who plays ranger….
This game is far from being balanced. And many players are quitting it for this reason.

Why should Ranger have a problem? Since trapper they have more stealth than both Mesmer and Thief.

Useless stealth.

The moment an enemy step on the trap, the ranger gets revealed.

Or the game simply not made for 1v1?

Speaking of condi mesmers being broken let me tell you my story. My friend on his condi warrior and I on my medi guardian just puking out aoe heals and condition removal were having fun during WvW reset last night. We were pretty much single(duo?)-handedly responsible for holding onto all 3 bloodlust buffs for a good 6 hours straight. We 1v2’d, 2v3’d, even fought 4 to 5 people a few times and came on top because we worked together and communicated over voice chat, healing, cleansing and CCing for each other, we were basically unstoppable.

At a certain point we ran into a trio of troublesome condi necros working together and modified our build for heavy condition countering and beat them. Not too long after, while still running anti-condi(I’m even using -40% condi duration food) builds we run into just this one mesmer who used PU + condis + perplexity. We were just plain unable to kill him thanks to mesmer’s plentiful survival tools, and while we were able to survive indefinitely in up to 2v3 and some 2v4’s earlier, he could singlehandedly wipe us both out with a neverending spam of high confusion and torment stacks, no amount of cleansing or healing could save us, we would eventually go down. The few times we were actually doing not-so-horrible all he had to do was moa one of us after a condi bomb so we couldn’t counter it and then just sweep up whoever was left.

This is not a “get good” problem, we fought and won countless fights and held all 3 bloodlusts for 6 hours, if we ran into a problematic combination of players we just adapted our builds and countered them, but NOTHING we could do allowed us to beat this one mesmer 2v1, something IS broken.

Ygdrad.7839:

Speaking of condi mesmers being broken let me tell you my story. My friend on his condi warrior and I on my medi guardian just puking out aoe heals and condition removal were having fun during WvW reset last night. We were pretty much single(duo?)-handedly responsible for holding onto all 3 bloodlust buffs for a good 6 hours straight. We 1v2’d, 2v3’d, even fought 4 to 5 people a few times and came on top because we worked together and communicated over voice chat, healing, cleansing and CCing for each other, we were basically unstoppable.

At a certain point we ran into a trio of troublesome condi necros working together and modified our build for heavy condition countering and beat them. Not too long after, while still running anti-condi(I’m even using -40% condi duration food) builds we run into just this one mesmer who used PU + condis + perplexity. We were just plain unable to kill him thanks to mesmer’s plentiful survival tools, and while we were able to survive indefinitely in up to 2v3 and some 2v4’s earlier, he could singlehandedly wipe us both out with a neverending spam of high confusion and torment stacks, no amount of cleansing or healing could save us, we would eventually go down. The few times we were actually doing not-so-horrible all he had to do was moa one of us after a condi bomb so we couldn’t counter it and then just sweep up whoever was left.

This is not a “get good” problem, we fought and won countless fights and held all 3 bloodlusts for 6 hours, if we ran into a problematic combination of players we just adapted our builds and countered them, but NOTHING we could do allowed us to beat this one mesmer 2v1, something IS broken.

So why is it a problem when the two of you can 1v2, 2v3, 2v5.etc as you mentioned, but it’s not okay when the condi mesmer can 1v2 you? Maybe he or she just knows how to play very well (better than the two of you), and adapted their own build and playstyle to counter yours.

The whole point of WvW is to not have fair fights….
You use the “world” to get an advantage. And therefore you will 90% of the time not fight someone on even grounds. Go sPvP if you want something along those lines.

However talking about the mesmer class is another subject entirely than wvw balance.

Although I would agree with you that PU mesmers are a bit op atm. Especially placed in competent hands^^

But yeah off-topic title is off-topic

DiscoJacen.1590:

The whole point of WvW is to not have fair fights….

Fair fights and poor class balance are two different things.

zinkz.7045:

DiscoJacen.1590:

The whole point of WvW is to not have fair fights….

Fair fights and poor class balance are two different things.

READ Exactly 3 more lines of my previous post and realize why you’re silly right now : )

You went against a mesmer build that counters yours fairly easily. In general the “PU mesmer” is a very strong 1v1 duel build, but you can just run away. It has poor lockdown and chasing capabilities.

Perplexity runes should be strong in 1v1 fights, because that’s where they are good. Runes of strength for instance, are strong in any game mode. However, one could argue that it’s synergy with confusion oriented builds are too strong.

If they replaced the confusion duration with something else, then confusion oriented builds won’t have such a strong synergy with perplexity runes, yet the runes will remain a solid choice for any condition roamers.

I usually don’t have any problem against condi mesmers. We just kill them 5 vs 1 easily and drop some rams over his body and spam laugh, jump, dance and cheer.

Think of condition cleansing like Toughness.

Having a lot of Toughness will help you take a few hits. But you’re still dead meat if you don’t avoid a lot of the damage in the first place.

Yes, it’s bullkitten that conditions can be stacked like 10 times faster than they an be cleansed. That’s how the game works, though.

Reverence.6915:

ANet keeps listening to the PvE players and buffed conditions for some reason when it should’ve been hard nerfed instead.

As much as I hate what happened and is happening to roaming and WvWvW in general, I don’t see a fix for the combat system unless WvWvW gets separate (and well developed!) rules from PvE. Even then, with the open nature of the maps and varying fight sizes, creating any semblance of balance will still probably be out of reach. I guess that they wanted to give PvEers something other than a zerker meta, as if the issue wasn’t that the PvE is shallow and predictable but nope more condi stacks and stuff!

I have been playing condi mesmer for 10 months. It was not very powerful before, now it has solid punch. ( I am still amazed that an insane developer thought giving mesmers blinding dis. + ineptitude + PU together. That is why power builds also kick tushy.) It was fun back then ( required much more skillful play though) and it is fun now.

It is very easy to shut down PU mesmer, especially if you can see his play style. Just barf some condi dmg on him. That build has a very poor condi cleanse. A good condi build can really kill him with quite ease ( if two player have same skill cap). Main problem is that no one plays according to confusion and torment. They continue running around you and spamming auto’s or fast skills. If you are too troubled with condi mesmer builds, just grab a burn guardian build. You will insta-kill any mesmer without very good skills.

By the way, I am not saying you were bad or something, but guardian in current meta can really kick condi mesmers pretty easily. But if you are a burn guardian, you can kill him, laugh at him, raise his body, and kill him again just for kicks.

The balance forum doesn’t exist anymore because too many people made topics to complain about losing a 1v1 against [insert profession] using [insert build].

Even if it’s filled with toxic threads it should still exist just for the few threads that will have valid points… That is the whole point of having moderation teams…

Junkpile.7439:

I usually don’t have any problem against condi mesmers. We just kill them 5 vs 1 easily and drop some rams over his body and spam laugh, jump, dance and cheer.

LOL well done.

DiscoJacen.1590:

zinkz.7045:

DiscoJacen.1590:

The whole point of WvW is to not have fair fights….

Fair fights and poor class balance are two different things.

READ Exactly 3 more lines of my previous post and realize why you’re silly right now : )

Not really, the OP made a thread about class balance in WvW, you banged about WvW “not being fair” which has nothing to do with this thread, even though for some reason you think it does.

zinkz.7045:

DiscoJacen.1590:

zinkz.7045:

DiscoJacen.1590:

The whole point of WvW is to not have fair fights….

Fair fights and poor class balance are two different things.

READ Exactly 3 more lines of my previous post and realize why you’re silly right now : )

Not really, the OP made a thread about class balance in WvW, you banged about WvW “not being fair” which has nothing to do with this thread, even though for some reason you think it does.

Talking about a “balance” forum in the WvW section basically means (grammatically) that he’s referring to a “balance WvW” section. Then he proceeded to talk about a class specific unbalance that should either be posted to the class specific section (mesmer here) or the GW2 general discussion section.

So in the first part of my reply I basically replied to his title. And then I replied to the class issue he was referring to. You still haven’t read the full reply.
It’s your obsessive aggression that has nothing to do with this thread.

DiscoJacen.1590:

Talking about a “balance” forum in the WvW section basically means (grammatically) that he’s referring to a “balance WvW” section.

What? Class balance in WvW is what he is talking about, you were talking about “fair fights” which are two different things. (and no that the latter part of your post mentioned the class balance does not negate the “silliness” of the first part)

DiscoJacen.1590:

Then he proceeded to talk about a class specific unbalance that should either be posted to the class specific section (mesmer here) or the GW2 general discussion section.

LOL, who made you mod, most balance threads critical of a class don’t get posted in class forums, as they tend to get a bad response there, so people post them in the PvP forum for class balance in PvP , in the dungeons forum for class balance in PvE, and guess where for class balance in WvW?

DiscoJacen.1590:

It’s your obsessive aggression that has nothing to do with this thread.

The only person being “aggressive” is you.

Arimas.3492:

Because Anet doesn’t even play their own game.

Just a minute ago in WvW on my guard, came across condi mesmer, I have 5 cleanses on this build I’m running with meds. Condi mesmer bombs me with 10 confusion and 9 torment in about 2 seconds then i cleared it and went after him, he stealths and comes back to apply another 8 stacks of confusion on me and 6 torment. This goes on 3 more times when I’ve used all my cleanses, 2/3 of those times i had double digits of torment and confusion applied to me in seconds. And now because I have no more clears I’m dodging trying to get away and in the end I died with 21 confusion stacks and 13 torment.

Talk about broken

heh, it could have been worse actually, you should see me on my perplex engi. LOL just LOL !!!

the perlex runes , yea ……

some thieves use them too.

realistically though, perplex cheese aside, the game is not balanced for 1 v 1. its balanced for 5 v 5 in which case you would have been cleansed more and faster then he could have applied them unless you had a uber sucky team. and hes the one that would have been cheesed.

Arimas.3492:

Because Anet doesn’t even play their own game.

Just a minute ago in WvW on my guard, came across condi mesmer, I have 5 cleanses on this build I’m running with meds. Condi mesmer bombs me with 10 confusion and 9 torment in about 2 seconds then i cleared it and went after him, he stealths and comes back to apply another 8 stacks of confusion on me and 6 torment. This goes on 3 more times when I’ve used all my cleanses, 2/3 of those times i had double digits of torment and confusion applied to me in seconds. And now because I have no more clears I’m dodging trying to get away and in the end I died with 21 confusion stacks and 13 torment.

Talk about broken

Totally agree.

If Anet, not a few, but all of them had to play this game two hours a day, things would change in a month.

It took you 12 mins to make an even more angry version of your post Zinkz. maybe in 12 more minutes you’ll edit it again with more rage? : )

On the topic: Anet listens to streamers and “influential” ppl regarding most changes (basically whatever will give them good press). And if you look at some stuff by wodden potatoes or some of the PvE streamers, you can see that a lot of the skill balances we got were “influenced” by pve players and not “competitive” players (ie that legendary interview of Reyana where Mikey dropped a “If you’re into WvW basically you’re into PvE” bomb^^).

Plus if you add that most patches are barely tested (remember when grenade barrage was broken or guardians hitting at 35K with all the symbols stacking dmg?) it seems clear that there will always be a class or combination that will be superior and left as it is.

This game does not have balance because there are so many builds. There is not one build that can survive everything or kill everything. Like some posters have already said, you need to run away, or change up your armoring, traits, and foods to counter a PU Mesmer. Condi clearing is not the answer, killing them fast is. If you’ve very defensive by having a ton of cleanses, then you’re constantly backpedaling.

Other posters have stated already, PU mesmers have very little condi clear, so, since the OP is a guardian, if you are a condi build, like a fire, medi guard, you will down him very fast.

PU mesmers are also susceptible to any interrupt build, like hammer warrior, or engis with all those god kitten knockbacks and knockdowns (I don’t play an engi, so I don’t know what the hell it is, but it’s frustrating as all hell). That’s the great thing about this game, imo. You can’t win every fight.

Look, how people are defending their god mode OP mesmer builds here under guise of talking about there being practically no need for Balance, because WvW = PvE..

When one single class becomes so broken op, that you can easily kill with it 1v 3+ fights with no sweat, because you have somewhat of overwhelming DPS through just 2 conditions that you can spam like crazy, which together are already op enough, because they totally lock a person down to practicalyl do nothing, if you don’t want to receive absurd amounts of damage in very short time, while still dealing also damage over time even if you do nothing …. is just a big sign, that there needs to be done something about Mesmers .

Mesmers got way too much Survivability Tools, they are now much better at Stealth, than Thieves, what is already in itself ridiculous, when Thieves are the Masters of Stealth
They have Block Skills, something about that Thieves can only dream of and have only with 1 Skill for Underwater Combat …
Simply said, this kind of Mesmer build is simply way too unforgiving, too much survivability paired with absolute absurd condition DPS, that in itself is already very powerful, cause conditions ignore armor.

If ANet doesn’t want to nerf the mesmer build per se, then they absolutely have to nerf the Conditions.

1. Nerf Confusion back to its old state, because with its damage over tiem its clearly OP.

2. Nerf Torment and remove the Damage over time, when standign still, it shoudl damage only, when you move. If you want damage over time, there are already 3 Conditions for that – Poison, Bleeding, Burn. 3 DoT Conditions are more than enough for Game Balance, we dont need 5 of this crap, which totally ruins Game Balance!!

3.Let Conditions not ignore completely Armor anyxmore (100%), but just only 75 or 50% Armor Ignorance, so that the Conditions will deal less damage, so that actually those players, which play a high defense build actually also receive lesser damage from conditions and are tougher to beat, than if you fight a glass cannon with conditions that has no defense at all … this change would make then also Vulnerability for Condition Builds more important, since the last patch it increases also the Condition Damage by maximum 25%, which is insane, which is why I ’d say, Vulnerability should have maximum 15 stacks… helps also balancing a bit the direct damage powercreep too

4. ANet has to remove finally Buff Food/Potions from WvW, they are also one big reason, why these builds are so massively out of control, cause you can buff with these things your Conditioon Damage and Durations into insane heights

5. Anet has to merge Boon Duration with either Vitality or Healing Power, so that actually going for a defensive build helps you out also in having longer working Boons, so that conditions like Resistance, that can help against such condition spam can help better. and Anet has to place Resistance a bit more into the game. Way too less Skills/Traits give this boon at the moment to other classes than the mesmer to have something in the hand against massive burst condistion spam like these insane high amounts of torment paired with confusion…add on top of this high burning and poison, and you are in most cases screwed very quickly,if you have not enough condi cleanses. Thieves for example lost practically 30% Boon Duration (my build) with the trait changes -.- I want to have them back, because it helped to make defensive boons last significantly enough longer to make a difference for me.
If like every 25 Points of Vitality would give also 0,5% Boon Duration, that would be awesome, cause with like 1700 Vitality for example, this would be then 34% Boon Duration more. So with 1500 Vitality you would have then exactly those lost 30% Boon Duration back..
Make this change a Trait for specific classes liek the Thief, so that not everyone gets just through vitality a massive Boon Duration Buff, and et voila done or make it part of Healing Skills, like Signet of Malice, that its passive effect grants you now also Boon Duration based on your Vitality with said formular.
Many options that would work and wheres a will, theres also a path. Just do it!

There’s a wide, wide gulf between ‘not balanced for 1v1’ and ‘all 1v1 matchups are 8-2 or worse’.

Confusion was way better before. If there was an option I would use the old condi system where it damages much more. I have been playing condi mesmer for a long long time. Zerker pu is too hard to counter ok, but if you can not beat condi build then it means you either do not have a condi cleanse, or you are an engineer

Guardian,necro and survival ranger are all kicking condi mesmers tushy easily. At least I do with those classes.

Just don’t stay in a fight with a pu mesmer just run away. One thing they can’t do is chase you, thankfully. You could ofc roll to a pd thief which just destroys a pu mesmer no matter how good he is or how bad you are.
But to be honest the game is not balanced 1v1 and should never be. Although if you want to do proper duels go do them in spvp custom duel arena there are certain rules that one can’t run such cheese builds like celecrap.

Reverence.6915:

ANet keeps listening to the PvE players and buffed conditions for some reason when it should’ve been hard nerfed instead.

Once more I have to point out that its not the conditions themselves BUT its the condition inflicting skills and traits of certain professions.

Go try out a S/S+LB condi Warrior….

He CAN’T by ANY means deal these amounts of damage through conditions. He can’t stack so many bleeds, his torments can go up to 6-7 at most and I achieved 8 burning stacks using fully traited LB with 100% burn duration only on NPCs.

Another example that they aren’t really knowing what they are doing… They nerfed bleed damage per stack and at the same time they nerfed Warrior Arm’s bleed focused traits! End up warrior S/S being weaker that it used to be (and wasn’t powerful for quite some time).

A.Net broke the already imperfect and biased balance. They buffed conditions without having in-check the capabilities of specific professions and builds.

For quite some time I felt that A.Net runs seperate teams for each profession balance that they aren’t permitted to talk to each other!

Ran into a thief last night that i had no hope of fighting, i even changed to a ridiculous condi cleanse/transfer build to no avail.

I was running these abilities to counter his build:

Consume Conditions: Removes all conditions.
Dagger 4: transfers 3 conditions.
Staff 4: Transfers 3 conditions.
Plague Signet: send 5 conditions.
Well of Power: Converts 1 condition into a boon every second for 6 seconds.
Shrouded removal: remove a condition while entering DS and every 3 seconds after.
Corrupter’s Fervor: reduced 20% condi damage.

Nothing i could do would affect this thief. I do have to hand it to him. He’d burst from stealth, dodge/blind all my attacks, heal/cleanse anything i put on him in stealth. Everytime he’d pop back out he’d just condi me up again.

Reaper shroud can’t come soon enough. Blind> DS tanking.

Don’t get me started on Mesmers. I wish i could have recorded a mesmer bursting 9 clones in about a 5 second period.

Most of the time, these classes arn’t a problem. It’s just that Anet has given some classes all the tools in the world with short cool downs while other classes have a limited skill set with large cool downs >.>

warhammer online lost about 3/4 of its subscribers in the first 2 months because of class imbalance. its not a small issue that can be ignored.

wow guys come on, adapt ur build then when u play against such players
how many condi clearers has a full condi PU mesmer? little
how many vitality has it? little
is the burst every time he bursts different? no… evade, again evade, do ur burst…
with my condi regen ranger i win in 1 of 2 fights against a PU mesmer
with my necro i let them stack and then i just sent it back
thief… don’t even want to tell more
and u will prolly find 100 more ways to counter it when u take effort to learn

but i do understand: complaining is easier then adapting ur build, learn how to counter it and then have fun…

keep complaining guys, thats why anet dont listen to u….

EDIT: no, i dont play pu mesmer or pu condi mesmer ;-)

counter condis with more condis and more stealth, pro tip!