Guild Wars 2

Few points.
Bloodlust buff. To be more accurate, stomp-for-server-points part.
Before bloodlust, player death was insignificant. You die, someone receive some wxp and loot, you group can be weakened, but all those things are not impacting your server. Server points was all about map control, which was all about organization. You put scouts, you swipe enemy zergs off map, you grab all structures that you can, you get your points. Better organization = win.
Now things changed. 12 stomped pugs (over all maps) per point tick under full bloodlust > Stonemist castle, 29 > whole EB corner, 49 > whole border. Someone going to tell me that taking the whole defended border is easer than stomp 49 random people?
May be it was good idea, you can now roam and do something really useful for server. But this coin have other side – overall control over situation from organized groups is gone now. You can keep scouts over all maps, you can siege structures, you can organize perfect floating firefight teams to response on scout calls, but you cannot control your pugs, and you cannot prevent them from being stomped. Value of organization begins to decrease.
Punishing the entire server for the actions of a few random people is wrong. Stomp part need to be changed.

Make control points as modifier to borderland point tick. 0 points controlled = you get only 30% from this borderland captured structure point value per tick. 1 point = 50%, 2 = 75%, 3 = 100%, 4 = 125%, 5 = 150%. With this change, you will be unable just sit in towers, because your borderland point tick will be only 30% of value (so control over map center will be critical), and in same time your server will be not punished just because you have some people who don’t want to be careful and don’t listen the orders.

P.S. Also i think about binding structure point value to upgrade status, so t1 = 75% of value, t2 = 100% an T3 = 125%, but this is another topic imo.

I really don’t think the points per stomp is getting as much attention as it should be. You know how we used to throw our bodies into circles to delay captures until help arrived? I’m not sure the math supports that anymores. So you’re down on buffs, probably fighting a larger force, fighting a buffed force, and are losing your structures. The scoring rules now suggest that you not even try to defend.

Anet, in every mode, try to discourage actual fighting. They really don’t get it.

So don’t let the other servers get 3 BL buffs? It really doesn’t take that much effort to capture the buff for your realm if you really feel you should have it. Much less even if you hold the Garrison.

WvW just got another layer of strategy added. Learn, adapt, overcome.

Tom Gore.4035:

So don’t let the other servers get 3 BL buffs? It really doesn’t take that much effort to capture the buff for your realm if you really feel you should have it. Much less even if you hold the Garrison.

WvW just got another layer of strategy added. Learn, adapt, overcome.

Reminds me gold sPvP memo “<class> is fine and clearly not OP, l2dodge”.
Punishing server for actions of random people is NOT fine. Punishing you for trying to go and fight then you are outnumbered is NOT fine. Punishing defenders for taking hard fight while trying to hold keep (because dying people give your opponent more points than holding this keep for 2hours straight) is NOT fine. Stomping points is plain bad and wrong conception.

Tom Gore.4035:

WvW just got another layer of strategy added. Learn, adapt, overcome.

You are as ignorant of the realities of most match-ups as Devon Carver seems to be.

Benjamin.6235:

Tom Gore.4035:

WvW just got another layer of strategy added. Learn, adapt, overcome.

You are as ignorant of the realities of most match-ups as Devon Carver seems to be.

Yes matchups are kittened up. We know that. It has nothing to do with this mechanics however, and everything to do with their stupid random matchups.

Go bark at the right tree.

The match-ups will be forever stupid. Anet’s refusal to address issues months and months ago have assured that. What they need now is mechanics to alleviate that. This mechanic just makes it worse. Incredibly worse.

In the T1 matchup each bloodlust buff was worth around 84 PPT, averaged over the first 48 hours of it being live. Each bloodlust buff is worth more than twice as much as stonemist, and that’s completely neglecting the +50 to all stats.

I’m sure the points on stomp were put in with the best of intentions, but they are warping WvW drastically and providing incredibly toxic incentives. They really, truly need to be removed ASAP.

Rednik.3809:

but you cannot control your pugs, and you cannot prevent them from being stomped.

This is my observation also. And you have even less control over the 3rd place servers pugs who are feeding points to your enemy.

There needs to be some limitations on how often a player can donate points to an enemy server.
Maybe put a 15 minute timer after they die whereby they cant generate points when stomped, or some form of dimishing returns similar to the wxp they yield on death.

Lifewaster.5912:

Rednik.3809:

but you cannot control your pugs, and you cannot prevent them from being stomped.

This is my observation also. And you have even less control over the 3rd place servers pugs who are feeding points to your enemy.

There needs to be some limitations on how often a player can donate points to an enemy server.
Maybe put a 15 minute timer after they die whereby they cant generate points when stomped, or some form of dimishing returns similar to the wxp they yield on death.

It already works like that. People who are not worth WXP give no points.

Tom Gore.4035:

It already works like that. People who are not worth WXP give no points.

Is that just from your observations as I have seen no confirmation of that, and the score board changes constantly so its difficult to test in game.

Also for a person to be worth no wxp, they would need to have died several times already yielding a point every time, if the diminishing return only kicks in at 0 wxp then its not much of a dimisning return at all.

Lifewaster.5912:

Tom Gore.4035:

It already works like that. People who are not worth WXP give no points.

Is that just from your observations as I have seen no confirmation of that, and the score board changes constantly so its difficult to test in game.

Also for a person to be worth no wxp, they would need to have died several times already yielding a point every time, if the diminishing return only kicks in at 0 wxp then its not much of a dimisning return at all.

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/borderlands-bloodlust-in-world-vs-world/

Just says so in the official announcement. Don’t know if it’s true, though. As you said, it’s pretty difficult to test.

And yes the DR on it of course could be tuned. I’m sure they will if they see stomp XP is the deciding factor of matches too often.

The amusing thing about Bloodlust points is that the big zergy servers are encouraged to zerg even more so they do not lose PPT from stomps and the smaller more roamer orientated servers are being turned off from their type of play by general dislike of the buffs. So, in a blow out match this is just going to lead to a 100 man blob in each map from 1 server all playing ‘I Spy’ all day long and Tequiiiiiiiiiiiiila! getting the crap kicked out of him on the other 2 servers.

Tom is kind of right. But there is a part he is not seeing.

because of the population imbalances what we have is not enough people to defend a tower/keep AND defend the center ruins. If we rally up and remove the bloodlust from our BL down in the lower tiers… no-one is on other maps taking their borders. If we try and split up to many people would take over our BL and take that ruins.

So this leads to… if you are severely outnumbered and cannot take back the Ruins… just log out. Its the best defense.

THAT is what is wrong with this whole thing.

Ostra.3927:

So this leads to… if you are severely outnumbered and cannot take back the Ruins… just log out. Its the best defense.

THAT is what is wrong with this whole thing.

But when you think about it, logging out will still end up to you losing the match. If you stay in, at least you get to play and maybe even have fun, which I believe is the reason anyone plays, or should play computer games.

Sure, if every fight is 1v5 then it gets old pretty quickly, but as I said that is more a problem of ANets terrible matchup system which pits servers as much as 4 tiers off against each other.

Tom Gore.4035:

Ostra.3927:

So this leads to… if you are severely outnumbered and cannot take back the Ruins… just log out. Its the best defense.

THAT is what is wrong with this whole thing.

But when you think about it, logging out will still end up to you losing the match. If you stay in, at least you get to play and maybe even have fun, which I believe is the reason anyone plays, or should play computer games.

Sure, if every fight is 1v5 then it gets old pretty quickly, but as I said that is more a problem of ANets terrible matchup system which pits servers as much as 4 tiers off against each other.

And since Devon has already said that negative forum posts are discounted IF WvW participation keeps increasing, the only way to change bloodlust or the server matchup issues is to NOT PLAY.

Swamurabi.7890:

And since Devon has already said that negative forum posts are discounted IF WvW participation keeps increasing, the only way to change bloodlust or the server matchup issues is to NOT PLAY.

Well that goes without saying. If you don’t find the gameplay fun anymore you should stop playing, period. Playing a game you don’t like playing sounds like a drug habit. It’s not healthy.

I think what he means Tom, is just what you said. What is the point of trying to find fun in a battle that is already lost. He can log and go do something more productive.

(edit: I was replying to the first post, so kinda a moot point)

People still care about ppt, its quite cute really.

nielscase.6258:

I think what he means Tom, is just what you said. What is the point of trying to find fun in a battle that is already lost. He can log and go do something more productive.

(edit: I was replying to the first post, so kinda a moot point)

Yes, but it’s exactly what he should do, if he doesn’t find the gameplay fun and so should everyone else.

Of course if despite all this, WvW player amounts still keep rising it tells the devs a lot of people still find it fun enough to spend their time on.

Tom Gore.4035:

Swamurabi.7890:

And since Devon has already said that negative forum posts are discounted IF WvW participation keeps increasing, the only way to change bloodlust or the server matchup issues is to NOT PLAY.

Well that goes without saying. If you don’t find the gameplay fun anymore you should stop playing, period. Playing a game you don’t like playing sounds like a drug habit. It’s not healthy.

The problem is I do have fun even when my server goes up against higher pop servers. I have less fun going against lower pop servers but still show up. I just happen to be lucky to be in a non-PPT focused guild on a non-PPT focused server.

Devon is incorrect in assuming that because I play it is a validation of the WvW design.

Tom Gore.4035:

nielscase.6258:

I think what he means Tom, is just what you said. What is the point of trying to find fun in a battle that is already lost. He can log and go do something more productive.

(edit: I was replying to the first post, so kinda a moot point)

Yes, but it’s exactly what he should do, if he doesn’t find the gameplay fun and so should everyone else.

Of course IF despite all this, WvW player amounts still keep rising it tells the devs a lot of people still find it fun enough to spend their time on.

That is IF, its also all about perception. If people don’t find the idea of a buff and stomp points fun, then same problem(regardless if it actually is or not)

I am not playing because Devon said himself it is the only way for them to change their poorly implemented live beta.