When Anet servers are having issues and things seem to be in a place where the company recognizes the ongoing issues, there should be something said to the imbalance that comes with leaving WvW open for play.
First and foremost, there is a wave-by-wave disconnect/reconnect in where players get kicked, reconnect, fight, then get kicked and repeat the cycle. Eventually players get tired of the constant tides of DC and reconnect and stop all together for the night/day. This dwindles population in a given borderland to a point where it becomes either free ktrain or slaughter. Thus affecting the PPT and overall scores. Not fair to servers behind and not fair to servers ahead.
Secondly, allowing WvW servers to stay open during the connectivity issues allows for objectives to become upgraded completely uncontested. Yaks are running from supply camps unhindered and unobstructed. Thus allowing for keeps and castles to get Waypoints and all objectives to upgrade free from contest.
Finally, the imbalance caused by the connectivity issues causes the fights in WvW to become jittery and stand off-ish. Players are too scared to push in because they do not want to DC or end up out of place and enemies back away or range attack because melee is too unreliable. Thus the battle becomes more a ballet of drunks than actual fighting.
Overall, the issues with known connectivity issues skew the balance and fairness of competitive matchups to the point where it becomes disgustingly silly to log into an unreliable connection and try to play the gamemode correctly.
TL;DR – Shut down WvW when you (ArenaNet) know you are having connectivity issues.
Why should they close the game mode when this acctually does not affect anyone in any way? What difference does it make if you win or you lose in WvW? And what about the players that only play WvW? Should they be denied of their game mode just because of server issues? Then better off shutting the whole game as people on PvE are suffering the same issues (in fact I lost my T4 Solid Ocean party 4 times because of the disconects).
Why should they close the game mode when this acctually does not affect anyone in any way? What difference does it make if you win or you lose in WvW? And what about the players that only play WvW? Should they be denied of their game mode just because of server issues? Then better off shutting the whole game as people on PvE are suffering the same issues (in fact I lost my T4 Solid Ocean party 4 times because of the disconects).
Because unlike your PvE parties where you can reset over and over again in the hopes that the connection says stable long enough to complete Jade Maw, WvW does not reset midmatch, WvW does not care if players are online or not, and more importantly WvW keeps on going even if Anet servers are not optimally operating.
In a competitive scene, WvW should not be allowed to continue operating if players are allowed to play in an unfair environment. I am a WvW-only player and I do not want to have the hassle of logging onto the borderland to continue to push a group that is taking advantage of the situation. It is dirty tactics and kittening annoying to have to deal with.
Why should they close the game mode when this acctually does not affect anyone in any way? What difference does it make if you win or you lose in WvW? And what about the players that only play WvW? Should they be denied of their game mode just because of server issues? Then better off shutting the whole game as people on PvE are suffering the same issues (in fact I lost my T4 Solid Ocean party 4 times because of the disconects).
Because unlike your PvE parties where you can reset over and over again in the hopes that the connection says stable long enough to complete Jade Maw, WvW does not reset midmatch, WvW does not care if players are online or not, and more importantly WvW keeps on going even if Anet servers are not optimally operating.
In a competitive scene, WvW should not be allowed to continue operating if players are allowed to play in an unfair environment. I am a WvW-only player and I do not want to have the hassle of logging onto the borderland to continue to push a group that is taking advantage of the situation. It is dirty tactics and kittening annoying to have to deal with.
How is WvW competitive? It hasn’t been remotely competitive since the Tournaments which aren’t coming back as per Devs? You win absolutely nothing if you place 1st and lose absolutely nothing if you place last…….
How is WvW competitive? It hasn’t been remotely competitive since the Tournaments which aren’t coming back as per Devs? You win absolutely nothing if you place 1st and lose absolutely nothing if you place last…….
cough
[kuh m-pet-i-tiv]
adjective
1. of, pertaining to, involving, or decided by competition :
2. well suited for competition; having a feature that makes for successful competition
3. having a strong desire to compete or to succeed.
4. useful to a competitor; giving a competitor an advantage:
cough cough
[kom-pi-tish-uh n]
noun
1. the act of competing; rivalry for supremacy, a prize, etc.
2. a contest for some prize, honor, or advantage:
3. the rivalry offered by a competitor:
4. a competitor or competitors:
5 Sociology. rivalry between two or more persons or groups for an object desired in common, usually resulting in a victor and a loser but not necessarily involving the destruction of the latter.
6. Ecology. the struggle among organisms, both of the same and of different species, for food, space, and other vital requirements.
If you are going to base of in the definition of the word competition, you need to answer: What are we competing for?
If you are going to base of in the definition of the word competition, you need to answer: What are we competing for?
Servers are competing for the top spot. To say they are number 1 on the leaderboards. Just like in PvP, players are vying for the top dog slot to say they are #1. Yes, the scoring system is jank and the balance of servers makes me die inside, but it is still a competitive scene. And thus should be treated as such in terms of equal grounds to play on. Letting a server remain online and active when players are being affected by an issue that causes connectivity to said server to be spotty, then that is not equal grounds to fight on. As this causes an imbalance in the way that the server acts and reacts to players. As noted in issue Number 2
Competition via Leaderboards does not really mean anything atm, with the broken linking system and laughable glicko adjustments, the whole thing is a mess, and honestly I would be embarrassed to try to explain it to some one new to the game.
Leaderboards incite competition. You cannot have 100% of the WvW population say “These leaderboards are meaningless” Someone, somewhere will still use the leaderboards as bragging rights. Mag, BG, TC, whoever. Thus, it’s a competitive scene and subject to the standards of even playing grounds.
Ever noticed that crashes are for some reason suspicously frequent on tuesdays, just after Anet has released a patch?
Yeah, DDoSing has nothing to do with it. It’s usually either:
A) Legitimate server/game crashes. They happen. Anet mess up.
B) Patches messing with your game files because you havent cleaned your .dat for months/years/eons.
Either way competition is good, but its not that serious. Honestly, one of the most memorable times in WvW this past year has been when the entire server crashed and reset every 5 minutes or so. We made it challenge to cap the same tower during that time before giving up, lol (I think we tried 10-15 times, TS was so full of laughs).
This is one of those things that I think sounds ok in theory but would undoubtedly be extremely annoying in practice. I would be very nervous to see where they would draw the line on what exactly constitutes “server connectivity issues.”
But they can’t be bothered to reset pro league games where people are dcing past a certain point so I hardly think they’re going to shut down wvw when lots of players start dcing for a few hours.
I think what people fail to understand is that while the DDoS is in progress the problem is happening to all servers for ANET not just a few selected ones. I believe ANETs team was doing the best they could judging from the varying providers they were switching to regularly all day. I was Tracert-ing trying to figure out if it was something going on at my end.Anyway running the servers as is during an attack is allows the technicians to diagnose the problem better because some DDoS attacks are harder to filter out than others.So they need to know what is legitimate traffic and what isn’t. Yes it can be annoying but better than not being able to fix it by shutting things off.
Leaderboards incite competition. You cannot have 100% of the WvW population say “These leaderboards are meaningless” Someone, somewhere will still use the leaderboards as bragging rights. Mag, BG, TC, whoever. Thus, it’s a competitive scene and subject to the standards of even playing grounds.
They are completely meaningless with all the manual glicko adjustments happenening…
While I’m not going to go I to the aspect of competitiveness, especially on a general WvW scale these kinds of DDoS attacks do create some issues.
My server was being double pushed during the time these attacks took place, by Gunnar’s in home border and some Gankdara and mainly Gankdara in EB. What happened is we had so many being DC’d and unable to log in that we lost everything due to not being able to mount much of a defence. We’re already outnumbered a lot of the time and clearly don’t belong fighting these servers, a quick look at the match up scores shows this.
Losing upgraded garri and EB keep especially when the enemy has a T3 SMC is a massive blow to prime time operations. Everywhere takes a considerable longer time to get to and defending most towers in EB extremely difficult and all but garri and the north two towers in home border a big uphill struggle. As a result most commanders and people just left for the evening as we will get karma trained by both enemy servers due to having the easier to take stuff.
I’m not saying the answer is to prevent people playing however a possible solution could be to freeze the score income at the point where these events happen along with upgrade levels. Then when normal service is resumed kick everyone out and restore to the state of just before DDoS attacks happened so everyone can pick up where they left off.
I doubt such a system could be implemented though.
While I’m not going to go I to the aspect of competitiveness, especially on a general WvW scale these kinds of DDoS attacks do create some issues.
My server was being double pushed during the time these attacks took place, by Gunnar’s in home border and some Gankdara and mainly Gankdara in EB. What happened is we had so many being DC’d and unable to log in that we lost everything due to not being able to mount much of a defence. We’re already outnumbered a lot of the time and clearly don’t belong fighting these servers, a quick look at the match up scores shows this.
Losing upgraded garri and EB keep especially when the enemy has a T3 SMC is a massive blow to prime time operations. Everywhere takes a considerable longer time to get to and defending most towers in EB extremely difficult and all but garri and the north two towers in home border a big uphill struggle. As a result most commanders and people just left for the evening as we will get karma trained by both enemy servers due to having the easier to take stuff.
I’m not saying the answer is to prevent people playing however a possible solution could be to freeze the score income at the point where these events happen along with upgrade levels. Then when normal service is resumed kick everyone out and restore to the state of just before DDoS attacks happened so everyone can pick up where they left off.
I doubt such a system could be implemented though.
This is exactly what I am wanting. Extreme measures are maybe not what we need, but extreme measures are what I suggest until something can be implemented to prevent such double teaming from happening
Why should they close the game mode when this acctually does not affect anyone in any way? What difference does it make if you win or you lose in WvW? And what about the players that only play WvW? Should they be denied of their game mode just because of server issues? Then better off shutting the whole game as people on PvE are suffering the same issues (in fact I lost my T4 Solid Ocean party 4 times because of the disconects).
Your first sentence is incredibly wrong.
Most of the other two server didn’t log back in over the last outage, leaving us, YB, free to finally get some properties back for the first time this week.
If you haven’t seen what can and does happen when some and not others have access, you aren’t playing WvW much at all.
Why should they close the game mode when this acctually does not affect anyone in any way? What difference does it make if you win or you lose in WvW? And what about the players that only play WvW? Should they be denied of their game mode just because of server issues? Then better off shutting the whole game as people on PvE are suffering the same issues (in fact I lost my T4 Solid Ocean party 4 times because of the disconects).
Your first sentence is incredibly wrong.
Most of the other two server didn’t log back in over the last outage, leaving us, YB, free to finally get some properties back for the first time this week.
If you haven’t seen what can and does happen when some and not others have access, you aren’t playing WvW much at all.
I’m still trying to see what’s the problem of losing some structures in a game mode where “winning” means nothing.
If wvw is going to shutdown when a bunch of people DC and don’t log back in then they might aswell close wvw for good and focus on EotM team assignment mechanics.
Why should they close the game mode when this acctually does not affect anyone in any way? What difference does it make if you win or you lose in WvW? And what about the players that only play WvW? Should they be denied of their game mode just because of server issues? Then better off shutting the whole game as people on PvE are suffering the same issues (in fact I lost my T4 Solid Ocean party 4 times because of the disconects).
Your first sentence is incredibly wrong.
Most of the other two server didn’t log back in over the last outage, leaving us, YB, free to finally get some properties back for the first time this week.
If you haven’t seen what can and does happen when some and not others have access, you aren’t playing WvW much at all.
I’m still trying to see what’s the problem of losing some structures in a game mode where “winning” means nothing.
I gave you some good reasons, though tbh it’s mainly the WPs and services that matter. They make the game mode more enjoyable and certainly for the losing side more accessible to quickly recover a bit after a good ole span…k-training by the other two servers.
Scoring may not matter but losing everything is very demoralising to people playing.
If wvw is going to shutdown when a bunch of people DC and don’t log back in then they might aswell close wvw for good and focus on EotM team assignment mechanics.
It wasn’t a bunch of people DCing, it was a recognised malicious attack preventing a lot of people logging in for quite a while. You’re better than resorting to this poor twisting of words.
Any “advantage” garnered from a series of disconnects won’t noticeably impact the outcome of a match. Odds are your opponents are also suffering those disconnects. Any “free” upgrades they’re gaining on their maps, you’re gaining on yours.
The only thing I recall being particularly unfair is a specific borderland being unplayable for a proloned amount of time. The qq when that happens is for real.
~ Kovu
If wvw is going to shutdown when a bunch of people DC and don’t log back in then they might aswell close wvw for good and focus on EotM team assignment mechanics.
It wasn’t a bunch of people DCing, it was a recognised malicious attack preventing a lot of people logging in for quite a while. You’re better than resorting to this poor twisting of words.
Um…ya it was a bunch of people dcing then…infact I got dced and tried logging back in, found something else to do cause nope, can’t get in. If I could have, I would have likely been dced again.
Any “advantage” garnered from a series of disconnects won’t noticeably impact the outcome of a match. Odds are your opponents are also suffering those disconnects. Any “free” upgrades they’re gaining on their maps, you’re gaining on yours.
The only thing I recall being particularly unfair is a specific borderland being unplayable for a proloned amount of time. The qq when that happens is for real.~ Kovu
Kovu, tell TLC I want that 1v1.
Also, mind that upgrades that are already maxed out are not affected. But paper structures are given free stuff.
If wvw is going to shutdown when a bunch of people DC and don’t log back in then they might aswell close wvw for good and focus on EotM team assignment mechanics.
It wasn’t a bunch of people DCing, it was a recognised malicious attack preventing a lot of people logging in for quite a while. You’re better than resorting to this poor twisting of words.
Um…ya it was a bunch of people dcing then…infact I got dced and tried logging back in, found something else to do cause nope, can’t get in. If I could have, I would have likely been dced again.
There you go downplaying it again. There were many who couldn’t log in at all and chose to play something else and check back later and then chose to not bother trying when they were unable to log in. Additionally this wasn’t just a bunch of people being DC’d it was a malicious DDoS attack there is a very clear difference, at one point most NA servers were down.
No-one is saying everytime a few people have some log in issues WvW should be suspended, just under exceptional circumstances such as 2 days ago when it was a clear orchestrated attack.
I’m still trying to see what’s the problem of losing some structures in a game mode where “winning” means nothing.
I’m still trying to see what’s the problem of losing some structures in a game mode where “winning” means nothing.
Fine. Let’s use your logic. Why do you play Guild Wars 2? Why do you spend hours, day after day, playing a game where there is no “winning”?
If wvw is going to shutdown when a bunch of people DC and don’t log back in then they might aswell close wvw for good and focus on EotM team assignment mechanics.
It wasn’t a bunch of people DCing, it was a recognised malicious attack preventing a lot of people logging in for quite a while. You’re better than resorting to this poor twisting of words.
Um…ya it was a bunch of people dcing then…infact I got dced and tried logging back in, found something else to do cause nope, can’t get in. If I could have, I would have likely been dced again.
There you go downplaying it again. There were many who couldn’t log in at all and chose to play something else and check back later and then chose to not bother trying when they were unable to log in. Additionally this wasn’t just a bunch of people being DC’d it was a malicious DDoS attack there is a very clear difference, at one point most NA servers were down.
No-one is saying everytime a few people have some log in issues WvW should be suspended, just under exceptional circumstances such as 2 days ago when it was a clear orchestrated attack.
How am I downplaying it guy? Everything you described is exactly what I said lmao. And I assure you, if servers are down and people were logged in, they dced.
I’m still trying to see what’s the problem of losing some structures in a game mode where “winning” means nothing.
Fine. Let’s use your logic. Why do you play Guild Wars 2? Why do you spend hours, day after day, playing a game where there is no “winning”?
I don’t know about Jeknar but since I quoted him I’ll say;
Because it’s fun.
I don’t care if my server wins or loses. I do a lot of scouting and I don’t care if the objective that I’m scouting gets captured either. I do it because I like to do it not because I care what happens to the tower/camp/keep.
I understand that winning is important to some people but having fun is important to others. My fun is not mandated by my servers victories but by how much I enjoy being around the players on my server. We can come dead last every week for all I care. I sign on every day to laugh and collect bags.
If you are going to base of in the definition of the word competition, you need to answer: What are we competing for?
Servers are competing for the top spot. To say they are number 1 on the leaderboards. Just like in PvP, players are vying for the top dog slot to say they are #1. Yes, the scoring system is jank and the balance of servers makes me die inside, but it is still a competitive scene. And thus should be treated as such in terms of equal grounds to play on. Letting a server remain online and active when players are being affected by an issue that causes connectivity to said server to be spotty, then that is not equal grounds to fight on. As this causes an imbalance in the way that the server acts and reacts to players. As noted in issue Number 2
Dude i have to agree with him, why would i care being in the top spot uf i personaly dont get anything for it? ALso there s so much imbalance between classes in wvw that the simple fact that one server runs more OP wvw classes rules better. i do wvw for the fights only and smalll scale ones because zergging is mindless and even less viable for more classes.
If i wanted competition for “real” i would go on spvp.
I’m still trying to see what’s the problem of losing some structures in a game mode where “winning” means nothing.
Fine. Let’s use your logic. Why do you play Guild Wars 2? Why do you spend hours, day after day, playing a game where there is no “winning”?
I play for entertainment. WvW for me is just a large sandbox where I can do whatever I want. If I feel like zerging I’ll join the zerg. If I want to roam I can. If I want to try ninja capture a objective before a blob arive I can. If I just want to k-train paper structures I can.
And if WvW isn’t being entertaining to me I do somenthing else. At 24,5k AP I cannot say “I only play WvW” without lying.
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