Guild Wars 2

Hey might as well start adding wvw achievements into the discussion too while you’re at it.

Do you have:
1000 ranks “Silver footman”? (for the eotm peeps)
250k kills for the title “Ultimate Dominator”? (for the OS farm peeps)
Captured SMC 1000 times for the title “Ultimate Liberator”? (cuz we use the old skool chieves count round here yo!)
The titles season1 “Veteran of the Mists”, season2 “Mist Runner”, season3 “Mist Treader”. (if you didn’t achievement hunt these you have no place in here)
Does your guild have all wvw upgrades maxed out, including an arena?
Oh, and got a rank this week?

Then hey good news! you can now enter the secret secret website poll over here, sign here and here and here promising you don’t tell anyone about it, kay? we dun want no filthy daily chievers in ere.

Wait you started wvw this year, got 500 ranks, only play in wvw? sorry outta luck come back in 3 years you’ll probably fit in some of the requirements then.

Hexinx.1872:

I think they should base it on ranks earned in WvW maps , and remove ranks earned in eotm. Then set a low bar threshold say rank 50 or so.

This should eliminate a high cap rank req farmed outside of WvW, allowing access to newer players who have invested a decent amount of time to have their voices heard, or the solo / roamers who collect points and rank much less frequently than say a commander. Includes everyone, gets rid of eotm ranks

Or do something like sending the mail to all players who earned 2 ranks that week

Raising the requirement of ranks per week before sending the mail is the most realistic suggestion so far for the desired results.

As for kill counts and ranks, without ranks earned in eotm (or any more complex criteria that isn’t covered by achievements, I highly doubt they can pull that kind of historical data for very long periods of time. Sure they keep a ton of data as has been apparent from some posts in these very forums but there is no reason to keep historical data you are unlikely to need access to (such as in which map and how much WXP was earned over time per player).

Choppy.4183:

lil devils x.6071:

By allowing players to vote as much as they want and who do not even understand how the game mode will affect the different play styles? Mhmmm..
Being a bit more professional or even as the above poster suggested, hire a professional to assist with the polls could help.

You’re assuming an issue without any evidence of the size of its influence. You’re also assuming they didn’t consult a professional, or have one on staff for the polls. Controls for confounding factors are applied both before and after data collection, and their alert system is an example of a pre-collection control. Another control is their high bar in support of a major change in order for it to occur.

The fact that this latest poll was such a blowout completely decimates your argument here. Not only would this pool of “illegitimate votes” from multiple account holders and people who don’t meet your standard of sufficient expertise have to be between 50% and 100% the size of “legitimate votes” in your eyes, they’d have to somehow, miraculously, all vote the same way.

The methodology is absolutely in line with standard survey practice. Accept the evidence that most Wvw players don’t agree with what you wanted, stop looking for ways to gerrymander the results you want, and move on.

You realize that I first brought this up on polls that resulted in the same results that I voted for right? That was when I first heard people talking about voting multiple times. Anet was informed of this issue with the first poll and did nothing to correct it then. They should have made proper adjustments before even making the second poll…

Stop looking for excuses for them not to solve a problem. We have evidence. They can be provided with the account names of a few of those who voted multiple times if they really want them. That doesn’t solve it for the next poll though now does it? You should understand this has been discussed here regardless of poll outcome.

Crise.9401:

Hexinx.1872:

I think they should base it on ranks earned in WvW maps , and remove ranks earned in eotm. Then set a low bar threshold say rank 50 or so.

This should eliminate a high cap rank req farmed outside of WvW, allowing access to newer players who have invested a decent amount of time to have their voices heard, or the solo / roamers who collect points and rank much less frequently than say a commander. Includes everyone, gets rid of eotm ranks

Or do something like sending the mail to all players who earned 2 ranks that week

Raising the requirement of ranks per week before sending the mail is the most realistic suggestion so far for the desired results.

As for kill counts and ranks, without ranks earned in eotm (or any more complex criteria that isn’t covered by achievements, I highly doubt they can pull that kind of historical data for very long periods of time. Sure they keep a ton of data as has been apparent from some posts in these very forums but there is no reason to keep historical data you are unlikely to need access to (such as in which map and how much WXP was earned over time per player).

Kill counts are kept for the achievement so should be easy to pull.

lil devils x.6071:

You realize that I first brought this up on polls that resulted in the same results that I voted for right? That was when I first heard people talking about voting multiple times. Anet was informed of this issue with the first poll and did nothing to correct it then. They should have made proper adjustments before even making the second poll…

Stop looking for excuses for them not to solve a problem. We have evidence. They can be provided with the account names of those who voted multiple times if they really want them.

Then ignore the last paragraph of my previous point and make your counter argument. Speaking as someone who actually has a background (education and professional) in survey design, there’s nothing wrong with Anets approach from a technical standpoint, which is why the other guy’s post was flat out wrong.

Your assertion of significant confounding factors from multiple accounts our pve’ers, so far, appears to be baseless. Your proposed solutions have their own inherent problems, and always seem to involve arbitrary standards.

lil devils x.6071:

Stop looking for excuses for them not to solve a problem. We have evidence. They can be provided with the account names of a few of those who voted multiple times if they really want them. That doesn’t solve it for the next poll though now does it?

Since you are all about solutions why not propose some… if it was a trivial thing to do they would have addressed it.

While I am not a game developer, I have enough general software development background for both traditional and web applications (as is relevant in these polls), I can tell you, without knowing anything about their specific backend solutions per se, that the only semi reliable way to detect duplicate accounts is based on payment information and even that has a change of false positives (I f.ex. bought two copies of the game but the second copy is not mine… I have also bought gems for that second account and been given cash back as compensation… the account in question belongs to a minor).

Then there is free to play accounts, with those all they can do is quite literally make a best guess and that is simply down to how most of today’s internet operates.

TL;DR: How would you detect duplicates? The best common factor between paid account duplicates is payment information (if they have that) and for free accounts there is no alternative to making a random guess (the accuracy of which decreases the less active some the compared accounts are).

Choppy.4183:

lil devils x.6071:

You realize that I first brought this up on polls that resulted in the same results that I voted for right? That was when I first heard people talking about voting multiple times. Anet was informed of this issue with the first poll and did nothing to correct it then. They should have made proper adjustments before even making the second poll…

Stop looking for excuses for them not to solve a problem. We have evidence. They can be provided with the account names of those who voted multiple times if they really want them.

Then ignore the last paragraph of my previous point and make your counter argument. Speaking as someone who actually had a background in survey design, there’s nothing wrong with Anets approach from a technical standpoint, which is why the other guy’s post was flat out wrong.

Your assertion of significant confounding factors from multiple accounts our pve’ers, so far, appears to be baseless. Your proposed solutions have their own inherent problems, and always seem to involve arbitrary standards.

There is something wrong with the approach if the goal is to keep the players who are impacted by the poll results playing the game. If you want those players to keep playing the game, you have to make sure those players are your target audience. If you do not care if those players leave the game, sure it wouldn’t matter. I am assuming their goal here was to increase player population, increase player satisfaction and increase game longevity but if that isn’t their goal of course it doesn’t matter if they get accurate information on that.

Your assertion that there were not significant factors affecting the results is unfounded as you cannot know how many of these votes were multiple accounts and PvE accounts when neither of these things were prevented and we already have evidence these things in fact did take place. Unless proper measures are taken to prevent this and they make new polls, there is no way to be sure eh?

Crise.9401:

lil devils x.6071:

Stop looking for excuses for them not to solve a problem. We have evidence. They can be provided with the account names of a few of those who voted multiple times if they really want them. That doesn’t solve it for the next poll though now does it?

Since you are all about solutions why not propose some… if it was a trivial thing to do they would have addressed it.

While I am not a game developer, I have enough general software development background for both traditional and web applications (as is relevant in these polls), I can tell you, without knowing anything about their specific backend solutions per se, that the only semi reliable way to detect duplicate accounts is based on payment information and even that has a change of false positives (I f.ex. bought two copies of the game but the second copy is not mine… I have also bought gems for that second account and been given cash back as compensation… the account in question belongs to a minor).

Then there is free to play accounts, with those all they can do is quite literally make a best guess and that is simply down to how most of today’s internet operates.

TL;DR: How would you detect duplicates? The best common factor between paid account duplicates is payment information (if they have that) and for free accounts there is no alternative to making a random guess (the accuracy of which decreases the less active some the compared accounts are).

I don’t use the same payment information on all accounts. That isn’t going to be the only way. I offered solutions, Only email the polls ( like they did for the surveys used to create this game and after HoT) to the players they want information from. Make sure all votes on the polls then have a minimum number of kill counts. Kill counts are collected for the achievement and should be easily accessible.

Xenesis.6389:

I’m starting to think Anet should probably just go back into silent mode,

I think that anet should just make the WvW they wanted to make and stop allowing the players to bully them.

At the moment I don’t know just how much time I should (if any) into community development or even simple game play, because I don’t know where the game is going.

Community opinion about the WvW is about as amorphous as a blackgate blob. I can get no sense of where things will end up by listening to other players.

My involvement has been reduced to checking for polls and collecting data. I have no desire for blob fights and am left waiting to see were this all goes.

lil devils x.6071:

There is something wrong with the approach if the goal is to keep the players who are impacted by the poll results playing the game. If you want those players to keep playing the game, you have to make sure those players are your target audience. If you do not care if those players leave the game, sure it wouldn’t matter. I am assuming their goal here was to increase player population, increase player satisfaction and increase game longevity but if that isn’t their goal of course it doesn’t matter if they get accurate information on that.

Your assertion that there were not significant factors affecting the results is unfounded as you cannot know how many of these votes were multiple accounts and PvE accounts when neither of these things were prevented and we already have evidence these things in fact did take place. Unless proper measures are taken to prevent this and they make new polls, there is no way to be sure eh?

You’re just pilling on more assumptions… About the primary purpose of the polls, and the variance and impact between the results and reality.

You’re also trying to shift your burden of proof about confounding factors to me while still asserting their significance without evidence. You’re also ignoring what I said about post collection controls, which Anet can likely do (and may be doing already) with all of your concerns. They should be able to put arbitrary filters on wvw rank, wvw rank gain within a specified time period, and maybe even exclude additional game accounts tied to the same email account.

That sort of approach is far less clumsy or problematic than what you’ve been proposing, and it leaves Anet with far more data to work with as well. It also keeps things simple for respondants, and it casts the widest possible net for inclusion from a PR perspective. Anet is doing a fine job with this.

As was said in another thread around 3 weeks ago……and it is still true today, and will still be true 6 months from now.

Liston.9708:

You may as well let LilDev keep ranting – cant be reasoned with on this subject.

Teon.5168:

As was said in another thread around 3 weeks ago……and it is still true today, and will still be true 6 months from now.

Liston.9708:

You may as well let LilDev keep ranting – cant be reasoned with on this subject.

sad thing – that was me who said it….. I can’t take my own advice….

Liston.9708:

Teon.5168:

As was said in another thread around 3 weeks ago……and it is still true today, and will still be true 6 months from now.

Liston.9708:

You may as well let LilDev keep ranting – cant be reasoned with on this subject.

sad thing – that was me who said it….. I can’t take my own advice….

lol….me either….although I have been trying to just ignore the obvious sorts of threads/posters that are pointless.

Never mind, I see the futility of this discussion. Erasing original post and adding something, hopefully, generally useful in its place.

At the end of the day ArenaNet are the sole judge of whether the poll depicts the actual opinion… they have way more data than is exposed to us to make that judgement call. And yes it is always a judgement call this is not something that they can’t interpret as best they see fit if it is necessary (ie. it is not a vote mandated by a contract or a law).

Not a single person has enough hard impartial statistics that can be considered anything more than anecdotal, compared to the amount of data ArenaNet has.

Bottom line, by not voting you can only hurt yourself…. boycotting a poll because you feel it is not valid is not going to achieve anything.

Surveys are only as good as the person who creates it. They provide an outcome dependend on the question asked and the answers possible. The outcome has to be analysed and interpreted. In our specific case, we can ask many questions but it only provides us with a hint on what the opinions among the players participating is (not among all players). However, it does not tell us anything about why the players voted for what they voted for.

From a scientific perspective, the design of the surveys is simply horrible. I would not allow anyone using the data for a further analysis.

gloflop.3510:

Surveys are only as good as the person who creates it. They provide an outcome dependend on the question asked and the answers possible. The outcome has to be analysed and interpreted. In our specific case, we can ask many questions but it only provides us with a hint on what the opinions among the players participating is (not among all players). However, it does not tell us anything about why the players voted for what they voted for.

From a scientific perspective, the design of the surveys is simply horrible. I would not allow anyone using the data for a further analysis.

By all means, please provide your scientific critique of their survey methodology.

I am fine with how the voting process is.

If it is to be changed it should IMHO be changed to those players with greater than 20K lifetime Yak kills….

( leave it alone 65% is a majority)

Xenesis.6389:

I’m starting to think Anet should probably just go back into silent mode, since we can’t even appreciate the effort they’re making in trying to communication with us lately, we begged and pleaded for years to be heard and now people just want to nitpick and break down everything they present to us.

These polls aren’t viable!, we have more pve players voting on stuff they don’t care about! sacrilegious!, we don’t have the hardcore players who quit two years ago voting! outrageous!, a rank 10 that gained a level this week gets to vote? wickedness!, well you worded it wrong it should be the other way so we get the majority of votes!, that guy has 20 accounts he spammed the votes the wrong way! lawlessness!,

Wait I thought this was a majority poll?, wait this wasn’t a majority poll? hold on I need my glasses, you didn’t explain this poll enough!, you explained the answers too much so people got confused!, you put too many yes answers so people got confused and didn’t vote no!, you need a year and 1000 ranks of experience to vote! the more ranks you get the more bonus votes you get veteran of the mist eotm’er!, they should hire a real professional survey company cause everything is random!

They have enough information on what to work on for the next year anyways.

Nothing to see here. I just want this on the next page as well.

Loosmaster.8263:

I’d still like to see a %-# conversion from the polls to get an idea of the overall WvW population.

Would be really nice to have some actual numbers to work with.. though I would also like to have some WvW ranks/kill numbers to go with that ( for all the polls).
1-500, 500-1000, 1000+ Would give a much better understanding of perspective.

Different groups will have different priorities as to what is and what is not important to their preference of game play.

msalakka.4653:

1 hour per week? Rank 10? So in other words, these polls are a joke.

This caters to karmatrain zombies, nothing more. DBL is a lot easier for brainless karmatraining, which got already easier and more profitable. I am seeing a continuing degradation of skill among the increasing mass of brainless PvErs who follow a tag around for reward spam. Of course they will vote for DBLs to return since those are the maps they first experienced and karmatraining is not as easy on the Alpines since these maps actually get upgraded and defended. Even just 2 guys can hold off many times their number at Lake because they can see all 3 walls from one spot, so you can’t simply attack a wall or gate and send a guy or two to cata a wall on another side. Sparkplug has, what, 5 walls?

Not everyone who prefers the DBL is a blob mouthbreather, obviously. However the problem is that the results now are skewed by a large number of votes by people who will ditch this game mode the minute something with easier, less-effort-required means of acquiring loot and reward track progress comes along. What you are then left with are only the committed WvW players who are in it for the competitive play, and far too many of those would rather leave WvW than play on the DBL.

When my server got a free transfer for a tournament season, we got a massive influx of PvErs who just wanted to be, for free, on a server that would win its league. We breezed through those boring matches with an overpowering 24/7 force of skillspammers who then promptly vacated the game mode once the tournament was over. That left us in a tier higher than we in reality were built for and we kept getting our teeth kicked in for weeks before Glicko adjusted.

Of course every clown that gets this email will vote on it without the least bit of consideration for the longevity of the game mode.

But c’est la vie. When you refuse to learn from your mistakes, you’ll just continue repeating them.

Well when you only need WvW to be there to get dailies, gift of battle and nodes, they can’t let something like people killing them in a PvP mode get in the way, they should just remove PvP from it so they can get their nodes and dailies done faster.

Yeah I dont fully like the polls either.

For instance my real answer about map rotation would be Alpine with a new real WvW map. Not Alpine with DBL.

Polls like this give Anet the excuse that “This is what we asked for”, when in fact it’s the best out of a list of bad ideas. As well as giving them the excuse to not make another WvW map for a while.

But it doesnt matter, I used to play almost 8 hours a night, now I play maybe 3 nights a weeks, 2-3 hours each night.
Shows you which direction this gameis continuing to go really.

McKenna Berdrow.2759:

Hey guys, since I’m seeing this topic pop up a lot, I wanted to step in and clear up some misconceptions.

1. Nearly every player that voted, plays WvW at least somewhat regularly.

2. Whether they play 1 hour a week, or dozens of hours a week, the breakdown between people who voted ‘Yes’ or ‘No’ remains very constant around the 65/35 split.

3. The in-game poll notification mail is only sent to players who are actively playing WvW. They must be at least rank 10, and have ranked up while the poll was running.

I got an in game mail for a wvw poll. I very rarely do wvw and when I do it is just for a quick daily. I was in there a bit more but just because I was helping the guild collect those new potions for the up grade.

I think that any player that has paid for the game should be allowed to vote in ANY poll that concerns the game. (like it currently is….you have a paid account, you can get into these forums and vote)

This alone gets rid of any sort of elitist attitude when it comes to the polls.
(Ok, it doesn’t get rid of the elitist attitudes, but it pretty much makes them irrelevant)

Plus, it also irks those people to no end that think they, and they alone know what is best for the game. That’s an added bonus, imo.

Teon.5168:

I think that any player that has paid for the game should be allowed to vote in ANY poll that concerns the game. (like it currently is….you have a paid account, you can get into these forums and vote)

This alone gets rid of any sort of elitist attitude when it comes to the polls.
(Ok, it doesn’t get rid of the elitist attitudes, but it pretty much makes them irrelevant)

Plus, it also irks those people to no end that think they, and they alone know what is best for the game. That’s an added bonus, imo.

The reality is though most MMORPG players do not want other players to attack them at all. It makes them feel bad when players can attack them. Safe zones are always far more popular than abandoned PvP zones. Of course if most PvE players vote on a WvW poll, it would be to remove PvP from WvW all together and have a place where you can run around and goof off and get rewards without worrying about being killed by players instead. They want to reduce the player skill involved to make it harder for WvW veterans to kill them and make is safer for them to be able to enjoy. By doing this of course, you will lose all the dedicated WvW players from the game.

“If it were up to me, you could walk to a guy in LA and get it with a Universal currency and never have to step foot in WvW if you didn’t want to. I think many WvW players would like to only be able to play WvW to get what they need and PvE players should be able to access everything they need from PvE as well. There is no point in trying to torture people who obviously do not like the other game modes just to be able to have fun the way they like to.”

I started another thread on this issue, with respect to the Gift of Exploration and the time involved in getting it versus the Gift of Battle for PVE’ers. It’s ridiculous (I know because I did the recent “Gift of Battle” reward track in a couple of hours and got myself yet another one), yet some PVE person (who I have no idea why she/he was even bothering to read these boards, other than to troll us) piped up and told me that Legendaries required components from ALL game modes and to suck it up (which they don’t, since nothing is required from PvP). Regardless, apparently it’s okay that it takes like no time for the PVE’ers to get Gift of Battle, but days (or even weeks) for the WvW’ers to get Gift of Exploration. How that is equitable is beyond me, but apparently most folks think it is because I never got any support behind the complaint – oh well – back to doing mindless, boring map completion. (which literally puts me to sleep – sigh)

Choppy.4183:

gloflop.3510:

Surveys are only as good as the person who creates it. They provide an outcome dependend on the question asked and the answers possible. The outcome has to be analysed and interpreted. In our specific case, we can ask many questions but it only provides us with a hint on what the opinions among the players participating is (not among all players). However, it does not tell us anything about why the players voted for what they voted for.

From a scientific perspective, the design of the surveys is simply horrible. I would not allow anyone using the data for a further analysis.

By all means, please provide your scientific critique of their survey methodology.

^^^ NOT productive.

Teon.5168:

I think that any player that has paid for the game should be allowed to vote in ANY poll that concerns the game. (like it currently is….you have a paid account, you can get into these forums and vote)

This alone gets rid of any sort of elitist attitude when it comes to the polls.
(Ok, it doesn’t get rid of the elitist attitudes, but it pretty much makes them irrelevant)

Plus, it also irks those people to no end that think they, and they alone know what is best for the game. That’s an added bonus, imo.

So you are saying that someone that knows nothing about the game area being polled about should be able to vote on the questions about gameplay changes to that area? Sounds just like the voting system in the United States, so maybe you’re right!

lil devils x.6071:

Teon.5168:

I think that any player that has paid for the game should be allowed to vote in ANY poll that concerns the game. (like it currently is….you have a paid account, you can get into these forums and vote)

This alone gets rid of any sort of elitist attitude when it comes to the polls.
(Ok, it doesn’t get rid of the elitist attitudes, but it pretty much makes them irrelevant)

Plus, it also irks those people to no end that think they, and they alone know what is best for the game. That’s an added bonus, imo.

The reality is though most MMORPG players do not want other players to attack them at all. It makes them feel bad when players can attack them. Safe zones are always far more popular than abandoned PvP zones. Of course if most PvE players vote on a WvW poll, it would be to remove PvP from WvW all together and have a place where you can run around and goof off and get rewards without worrying about being killed by players instead. They want to reduce the player skill involved to make it harder for WvW veterans to kill them and make is safer for them to be able to enjoy. By doing this of course, you will lose all the dedicated WvW players from the game.

Seriously, I don’t even pay much attention to your posts, anymore. The ‘know-it-all’ attitude is getting really old, and, imo, completely undermines any sort of possibly valid point you might be trying to make.

Scamp.5296:

Teon.5168:

I think that any player that has paid for the game should be allowed to vote in ANY poll that concerns the game. (like it currently is….you have a paid account, you can get into these forums and vote)

This alone gets rid of any sort of elitist attitude when it comes to the polls.
(Ok, it doesn’t get rid of the elitist attitudes, but it pretty much makes them irrelevant)

Plus, it also irks those people to no end that think they, and they alone know what is best for the game. That’s an added bonus, imo.

So you are saying that someone that knows nothing about the game area being polled about should be able to vote on the questions about gameplay changes to that area? Sounds just like the voting system in the United States, so maybe you’re right!

It’s a game, not some potential politically changing vote. If they have paid for it, then they get to vote. I frankly don’t care if they have never played the part of the game that they’re voting on. Again, it is A GAME…for entertainment purposes. Too many players take mmorpgs way, way too seriously. I have been there and done that with DaoC in the early years, and it is not healthy. Blinds a lot of people from rational thought.

Heck, we don’t even have to pay a monthly sub on GW2.

None of these polls on wvw will be life changing, to anyone. Game changing maybe, but there are tons of other games out there, so that’s not a huge deal, either.
If any of this is life changing to someone, then my sincere sympathies.

Scamp.5296:

“If it were up to me, you could walk to a guy in LA and get it with a Universal currency and never have to step foot in WvW if you didn’t want to. I think many WvW players would like to only be able to play WvW to get what they need and PvE players should be able to access everything they need from PvE as well. There is no point in trying to torture people who obviously do not like the other game modes just to be able to have fun the way they like to.”

I started another thread on this issue, with respect to the Gift of Exploration and the time involved in getting it versus the Gift of Battle for PVE’ers. It’s ridiculous (I know because I did the recent “Gift of Battle” reward track in a couple of hours and got myself yet another one), yet some PVE person (who I have no idea why she/he was even bothering to read these boards, other than to troll us) piped up and told me that Legendaries required components from ALL game modes and to suck it up (which they don’t, since nothing is required from PvP). Regardless, apparently it’s okay that it takes like no time for the PVE’ers to get Gift of Battle, but days (or even weeks) for the WvW’ers to get Gift of Exploration. How that is equitable is beyond me, but apparently most folks think it is because I never got any support behind the complaint – oh well – back to doing mindless, boring map completion. (which literally puts me to sleep – sigh)

The things is though, In PvE, you can go to any sever and there is no population cap to worry about taking up a space on the map. Even if THAT map gets full, you can go to another and still get what you need done. In WvW, you cannot do that. It is a gamemode with a playing field and a score. Bringing anyone in who is not there to play the game at all is like having a basketball game going on but in the middle of the game while they are trying to play, you have a guy come in and start a knitting club (farming nodes) in the middle of the court and for every person that does that, the basketball game going on loses a player, and the basketball player that played that court every day had to go sit in queue instead. Then another guy came into the game and decided to start playing miniature golf (dailies)on the basketball court and so now you have the knitting club and the miniature golf players taking up space and more basketball players that played there every day have to sit in queue instead too then another guy came in and he starts playing hopscotch (dueling) on the court and more basketball players are in queue, then another guy comes in and starts playing 4 square ( gift/ heroics/ badge/ karma farmers) and more basketball players are sitting in queue.. It is not even a Basketball game anymore when you put all this stuff in it and the basketball players are not even allowed to play anymore. That is what has been happening to WvW for a long time now, and they are just making it worse.

If PvE players wanted to come play WvW, they would come play WvW. They don’t, so why try and force them to when they have players waiting to come in that want to actually play the game? Many WvW players don’t want to go to PvE either, nor should they have to to be competitive in WvW. Just like basketball players want to play basketball on their court, WvW players want to pay WvW on theirs.

Teon.5168:

Scamp.5296:

Teon.5168:

I think that any player that has paid for the game should be allowed to vote in ANY poll that concerns the game. (like it currently is….you have a paid account, you can get into these forums and vote)

This alone gets rid of any sort of elitist attitude when it comes to the polls.
(Ok, it doesn’t get rid of the elitist attitudes, but it pretty much makes them irrelevant)

Plus, it also irks those people to no end that think they, and they alone know what is best for the game. That’s an added bonus, imo.

So you are saying that someone that knows nothing about the game area being polled about should be able to vote on the questions about gameplay changes to that area? Sounds just like the voting system in the United States, so maybe you’re right!

It’s a game, not some potential politically changing vote. If they have paid for it, then they get to vote. I frankly don’t care if they have never played the part of the game that they’re voting on. Again, it is A GAME…for entertainment purposes. Too many players take mmorpgs way, way too seriously.

Heck, we don’t even have to pay a monthly sub on it.

Of course players who have never played the things that other players enjoy should tell them how to design those areas because they know what those players need to have included for them to enjoy the game right? So if the majority of players do not want players to attack each other at all, they should just remove all PvP from the game eh? BTW MOST MMORPG players do not want to PvP at all.. In order to have PvP in an mmorpg at all, they would have to only get opinions from PvP players to do so because most players do not want to be killed by other players at all.

I have actually played most MMORPGS that have actually been made, beta tested most games out there, wrote numerous articles for gaming sites and been active in the wider gaming community for a very very long time, but of course “experience” = snooty know it all " elitist" in your mind. LOL

Scamp.5296:

Choppy.4183:

gloflop.3510:

Surveys are only as good as the person who creates it. They provide an outcome dependend on the question asked and the answers possible. The outcome has to be analysed and interpreted. In our specific case, we can ask many questions but it only provides us with a hint on what the opinions among the players participating is (not among all players). However, it does not tell us anything about why the players voted for what they voted for.

From a scientific perspective, the design of the surveys is simply horrible. I would not allow anyone using the data for a further analysis.

By all means, please provide your scientific critique of their survey methodology.

^^^ NOT productive.

Really? I generally find calling on someone to back up that sort of spurious claim is the best way to put it to rest. Either it’s not spurious, and they can demonstrate it, or else they don’t meet the challenge or they try and fail, showing everyone there was nothing supporting their claim.

Letting it hang out there though… I mean that’s how false information spreads.

Choppy.4183:

Scamp.5296:

Choppy.4183:

gloflop.3510:

Surveys are only as good as the person who creates it. They provide an outcome dependend on the question asked and the answers possible. The outcome has to be analysed and interpreted. In our specific case, we can ask many questions but it only provides us with a hint on what the opinions among the players participating is (not among all players). However, it does not tell us anything about why the players voted for what they voted for.

From a scientific perspective, the design of the surveys is simply horrible. I would not allow anyone using the data for a further analysis.

By all means, please provide your scientific critique of their survey methodology.

^^^ NOT productive.

Really? I generally find calling on someone to back up that sort of spurious claim is the best way to put it to rest. Either it’s not spurious, and they can demonstrate it, or else they don’t meet the challenge or they try and fail, showing everyone there was nothing supporting their claim.

Letting it hang out there though… I mean that’s how false information spreads.

Completely agree. Well said, Choppy.

ArchonWing.9480:

And then i remember that time someone achieved Diamond Legend in EOTM and everyone gave him crap for it….

Easy to suddenly emphasize the importance of rank when it’s convenient, right?

Honestly, what is a good rank for 4 years of play? We didn’t have rank for the 1st year so that didn’t get counted. But then again, rank 1000 is a paltry rank for consistent play…. if you’re a zergling. Hmmph. Hit more doors? I know people that show up regularly that have an unusually low rank because they suck at farming wxp. Doesn’t mean they suck at WvW though.

When the majority of MMORPG players do not want players to be able to attack them at all, how do they ensure that they target actual WvW players if they do not use Rank or kills to filter? If it were up to most players, there would be no PvP at all.

Scamp.5296:

Teon.5168:

I think that any player that has paid for the game should be allowed to vote in ANY poll that concerns the game. (like it currently is….you have a paid account, you can get into these forums and vote)

This alone gets rid of any sort of elitist attitude when it comes to the polls.
(Ok, it doesn’t get rid of the elitist attitudes, but it pretty much makes them irrelevant)

Plus, it also irks those people to no end that think they, and they alone know what is best for the game. That’s an added bonus, imo.

So you are saying that someone that knows nothing about the game area being polled about should be able to vote on the questions about gameplay changes to that area? Sounds just like the voting system in the United States, so maybe you’re right!

Yes, that is exactly what he is proposing. Since More MMORPG players do not like PvP at all, they should be able to turn it into a goofy zone where they can run around safely and get their rewards and not be worried about being attacked by those mean WvW veterans.

lil devils x.6071:

ArchonWing.9480:

And then i remember that time someone achieved Diamond Legend in EOTM and everyone gave him crap for it….

Easy to suddenly emphasize the importance of rank when it’s convenient, right?

Honestly, what is a good rank for 4 years of play? We didn’t have rank for the 1st year so that didn’t get counted. But then again, rank 1000 is a paltry rank for consistent play…. if you’re a zergling. Hmmph. Hit more doors? I know people that show up regularly that have an unusually low rank because they suck at farming wxp. Doesn’t mean they suck at WvW though.

When the majority of MMORPG players do not want players to be able to attack them at all, how do they ensure that they target actual WvW players if they do not use Rank or kills to filter? If it were up to most players, there would be no PvP at all.

Okay. So a lot of MMORPG players don’t want to have a place where other players could attack them. We need to filter them out because they’re going to take interest in a poll involving a game mode which is about being attacked by enemy players, because they like clicking buttons or what?

I’m sorry, but whatever you’re saying is tangential to what I said at best.

ArchonWing.9480:

lil devils x.6071:

ArchonWing.9480:

And then i remember that time someone achieved Diamond Legend in EOTM and everyone gave him crap for it….

Easy to suddenly emphasize the importance of rank when it’s convenient, right?

Honestly, what is a good rank for 4 years of play? We didn’t have rank for the 1st year so that didn’t get counted. But then again, rank 1000 is a paltry rank for consistent play…. if you’re a zergling. Hmmph. Hit more doors? I know people that show up regularly that have an unusually low rank because they suck at farming wxp. Doesn’t mean they suck at WvW though.

When the majority of MMORPG players do not want players to be able to attack them at all, how do they ensure that they target actual WvW players if they do not use Rank or kills to filter? If it were up to most players, there would be no PvP at all.

Okay. So a lot of MMORPG players don’t want to have a place where other players could attack them. We need to filter them out because they’re going to take interest in a poll involving a game mode which is about being attacked by enemy players, because they like clicking buttons or what?

I’m sorry, but whatever you’re saying is tangential to what I said at best.

No according to the players who said they were only in WvW to do dailies and didn’t really play wvw, they voted because they received a notice to come vote. To them WvW is just another farming node. Less things interfering with them being able to do that the better for them..

For example:

McKenna Berdrow.2759:

McKenna Berdrow.2759:

Hey guys, since I’m seeing this topic pop up a lot, I wanted to step in and clear up some misconceptions.

1. Nearly every player that voted, plays WvW at least somewhat regularly.

2. Whether they play 1 hour a week, or dozens of hours a week, the breakdown between people who voted ‘Yes’ or ‘No’ remains very constant around the 65/35 split.

3. The in-game poll notification mail is only sent to players who are actively playing WvW. They must be at least rank 10, and have ranked up while the poll was running.

I got an in game mail for a wvw poll. I very rarely do wvw and when I do it is just for a quick daily. I was in there a bit more but just because I was helping the guild collect those new potions for the up grade.

In addition, Anet put it out in the PVE community on Reddit… So you didn’t even have to be playing WvW to find out about it.

What you said was that rank would not help determine whether or not they knew anything about WvW, I was asking what would ? Kill count?

lil devils x.6071:

ArchonWing.9480:

lil devils x.6071:

ArchonWing.9480:

And then i remember that time someone achieved Diamond Legend in EOTM and everyone gave him crap for it….

Easy to suddenly emphasize the importance of rank when it’s convenient, right?

Honestly, what is a good rank for 4 years of play? We didn’t have rank for the 1st year so that didn’t get counted. But then again, rank 1000 is a paltry rank for consistent play…. if you’re a zergling. Hmmph. Hit more doors? I know people that show up regularly that have an unusually low rank because they suck at farming wxp. Doesn’t mean they suck at WvW though.

When the majority of MMORPG players do not want players to be able to attack them at all, how do they ensure that they target actual WvW players if they do not use Rank or kills to filter? If it were up to most players, there would be no PvP at all.

Okay. So a lot of MMORPG players don’t want to have a place where other players could attack them. We need to filter them out because they’re going to take interest in a poll involving a game mode which is about being attacked by enemy players, because they like clicking buttons or what?

I’m sorry, but whatever you’re saying is tangential to what I said at best.

No according to the players who said they were only in WvW to do dailies and didn’t really play wvw, they voted because they received a notice to come vote. To them WvW is just another farming node. Less things interfering with them being able to do that the better for them..

For example:

McKenna Berdrow.2759:

McKenna Berdrow.2759:

Hey guys, since I’m seeing this topic pop up a lot, I wanted to step in and clear up some misconceptions.

1. Nearly every player that voted, plays WvW at least somewhat regularly.

2. Whether they play 1 hour a week, or dozens of hours a week, the breakdown between people who voted ‘Yes’ or ‘No’ remains very constant around the 65/35 split.

3. The in-game poll notification mail is only sent to players who are actively playing WvW. They must be at least rank 10, and have ranked up while the poll was running.

I got an in game mail for a wvw poll. I very rarely do wvw and when I do it is just for a quick daily. I was in there a bit more but just because I was helping the guild collect those new potions for the up grade.

In addition, Anet put it out in the PVE community on Reddit… So you didn’t even have to be playing WvW to find out about it.

What you said was that rank would not help determine whether or not they knew anything about WvW, I was asking what would ? Kill count?

You’re missing the point here. And really, I’d really like to ask why someone that comes into WvW just to do dailies would even care which borderlands it’s on when nodes will just be nodes. [Not to mention most wvw dailies can be done in EOTM anyways, which is where a lot of the people you choose to describe go anyways]

There’s also plenty of complaints on these very forums about people complaining doing pve dailies and they won’t even consider WvW as an option.

And if people want easy dailies without opposition, the harder to navigate desert borderlands aren’t exactly a good choice for that.

I honestly think you’re seriously overestimating the amount of people that actually care about WvW beyond actual WvW’ers, much less want to vote on it, considering there’s quite a few people in WvW (actual players in WvW I have encountered) that can’t be kitten d to vote on it either.

Not to mention that I also know people that are pve focused and only come mostly to dailies, but they still once in a while do play in good faith still… So, I really don’t care for abstract generalizations.

As for kill count, it suffers the same trouble as world rank— easier to farm in higher tiers and in EOTM. It also doesn’t really give much credit to those people that are into refreshing siege and stuff like that. Not to mention that certain classes are better at receiving kill credit than others.

This isn’t to say that their current way of selecting doesn’t have trouble. Clearly rank 10 is too low. Also I dunno what they were doing with Reddit.

ArchonWing.9480:

lil devils x.6071:

ArchonWing.9480:

lil devils x.6071:

ArchonWing.9480:

And then i remember that time someone achieved Diamond Legend in EOTM and everyone gave him crap for it….

Easy to suddenly emphasize the importance of rank when it’s convenient, right?

Honestly, what is a good rank for 4 years of play? We didn’t have rank for the 1st year so that didn’t get counted. But then again, rank 1000 is a paltry rank for consistent play…. if you’re a zergling. Hmmph. Hit more doors? I know people that show up regularly that have an unusually low rank because they suck at farming wxp. Doesn’t mean they suck at WvW though.

When the majority of MMORPG players do not want players to be able to attack them at all, how do they ensure that they target actual WvW players if they do not use Rank or kills to filter? If it were up to most players, there would be no PvP at all.

Okay. So a lot of MMORPG players don’t want to have a place where other players could attack them. We need to filter them out because they’re going to take interest in a poll involving a game mode which is about being attacked by enemy players, because they like clicking buttons or what?

I’m sorry, but whatever you’re saying is tangential to what I said at best.

No according to the players who said they were only in WvW to do dailies and didn’t really play wvw, they voted because they received a notice to come vote. To them WvW is just another farming node. Less things interfering with them being able to do that the better for them..

For example:

McKenna Berdrow.2759:

McKenna Berdrow.2759:

Hey guys, since I’m seeing this topic pop up a lot, I wanted to step in and clear up some misconceptions.

1. Nearly every player that voted, plays WvW at least somewhat regularly.

2. Whether they play 1 hour a week, or dozens of hours a week, the breakdown between people who voted ‘Yes’ or ‘No’ remains very constant around the 65/35 split.

3. The in-game poll notification mail is only sent to players who are actively playing WvW. They must be at least rank 10, and have ranked up while the poll was running.

I got an in game mail for a wvw poll. I very rarely do wvw and when I do it is just for a quick daily. I was in there a bit more but just because I was helping the guild collect those new potions for the up grade.

In addition, Anet put it out in the PVE community on Reddit… So you didn’t even have to be playing WvW to find out about it.

What you said was that rank would not help determine whether or not they knew anything about WvW, I was asking what would ? Kill count?

You’re missing the point here. And really, I’d really like to ask why someone that comes into WvW just to do dailies would even care which borderlands it’s on when nodes will just be nodes. [Not to mention most wvw dailies can be done in EOTM anyways, which is where a lot of the people you choose to describe go anyways]

There’s also plenty of complaints on these very forums about people complaining doing pve dailies and they won’t even consider WvW as an option.

And if people want easy dailies without opposition, the harder to navigate desert borderlands aren’t exactly a good choice for that.

I honestly think you’re seriously overestimating the amount of people that actually care about WvW beyond actual WvW’ers, much less want to vote on it, considering there’s quite a few people in WvW (actual players in WvW I have encountered) that can’t be kitten d to vote on it either.

Not to mention that I also know people that are pve focused and only come mostly to dailies, but they still once in a while do play in good faith still… So, I really don’t care for abstract generalizations.

As for kill count, it suffers the same trouble as world rank— easier to farm in higher tiers and in EOTM. It also doesn’t really give much credit to those people that are into refreshing siege and stuff like that. Not to mention that certain classes are better at receiving kill credit than others.

This isn’t to say that their current way of selecting doesn’t have trouble. Clearly rank 10 is too low. Also I dunno what they were doing with Reddit.

They don’t have to care about WvW to vote. Voting for the sake of voting is an actual thing when devs tell people to " COME VOTE!! POLL!!" people just do because Anet told them to.

Maybe Dolyak kills would do it? HAHAHA.. Who would have ever thunk that Dolyak kills could determine who is a WvW player.. Though that might get protests from People for the Ethical Treatment of Dolyaks.

lil devils x.6071:

ArchonWing.9480:

lil devils x.6071:

ArchonWing.9480:

lil devils x.6071:

ArchonWing.9480:

And then i remember that time someone achieved Diamond Legend in EOTM and everyone gave him crap for it….

Easy to suddenly emphasize the importance of rank when it’s convenient, right?

Honestly, what is a good rank for 4 years of play? We didn’t have rank for the 1st year so that didn’t get counted. But then again, rank 1000 is a paltry rank for consistent play…. if you’re a zergling. Hmmph. Hit more doors? I know people that show up regularly that have an unusually low rank because they suck at farming wxp. Doesn’t mean they suck at WvW though.

When the majority of MMORPG players do not want players to be able to attack them at all, how do they ensure that they target actual WvW players if they do not use Rank or kills to filter? If it were up to most players, there would be no PvP at all.

Okay. So a lot of MMORPG players don’t want to have a place where other players could attack them. We need to filter them out because they’re going to take interest in a poll involving a game mode which is about being attacked by enemy players, because they like clicking buttons or what?

I’m sorry, but whatever you’re saying is tangential to what I said at best.

No according to the players who said they were only in WvW to do dailies and didn’t really play wvw, they voted because they received a notice to come vote. To them WvW is just another farming node. Less things interfering with them being able to do that the better for them..

For example:

McKenna Berdrow.2759:

McKenna Berdrow.2759:

Hey guys, since I’m seeing this topic pop up a lot, I wanted to step in and clear up some misconceptions.

1. Nearly every player that voted, plays WvW at least somewhat regularly.

2. Whether they play 1 hour a week, or dozens of hours a week, the breakdown between people who voted ‘Yes’ or ‘No’ remains very constant around the 65/35 split.

3. The in-game poll notification mail is only sent to players who are actively playing WvW. They must be at least rank 10, and have ranked up while the poll was running.

I got an in game mail for a wvw poll. I very rarely do wvw and when I do it is just for a quick daily. I was in there a bit more but just because I was helping the guild collect those new potions for the up grade.

In addition, Anet put it out in the PVE community on Reddit… So you didn’t even have to be playing WvW to find out about it.

What you said was that rank would not help determine whether or not they knew anything about WvW, I was asking what would ? Kill count?

You’re missing the point here. And really, I’d really like to ask why someone that comes into WvW just to do dailies would even care which borderlands it’s on when nodes will just be nodes. [Not to mention most wvw dailies can be done in EOTM anyways, which is where a lot of the people you choose to describe go anyways]

There’s also plenty of complaints on these very forums about people complaining doing pve dailies and they won’t even consider WvW as an option.

And if people want easy dailies without opposition, the harder to navigate desert borderlands aren’t exactly a good choice for that.

I honestly think you’re seriously overestimating the amount of people that actually care about WvW beyond actual WvW’ers, much less want to vote on it, considering there’s quite a few people in WvW (actual players in WvW I have encountered) that can’t be kitten d to vote on it either.

Not to mention that I also know people that are pve focused and only come mostly to dailies, but they still once in a while do play in good faith still… So, I really don’t care for abstract generalizations.

As for kill count, it suffers the same trouble as world rank— easier to farm in higher tiers and in EOTM. It also doesn’t really give much credit to those people that are into refreshing siege and stuff like that. Not to mention that certain classes are better at receiving kill credit than others.

This isn’t to say that their current way of selecting doesn’t have trouble. Clearly rank 10 is too low. Also I dunno what they were doing with Reddit.

They don’t have to care about WvW to vote. Voting for the sake of voting is an actual thing when devs tell people to " COME VOTE!! POLL!!" people just do because Anet told them to.

Maybe Dolyak kills would do it? HAHAHA.. Who would have ever thunk that Dolyak kills could determine who is a WvW player.. Though that might get protests from People for the Ethical Treatment of Dolyaks.

Well, that’s certainly possible that people are going to vote just because Anet told them too, but I’m tend to believe laziness prevails in these cases.

Though I do remember that time in our guild that we were suggested by someone from Anet to write reviews for metacritic concerning HoT. Hmm, guess they didn’t know what I was going to write =p (I was nice though)

Actually I would trust yaks over those other things.

lil devils x.6071:

They don’t have to care about WvW to vote. Voting for the sake of voting is an actual thing when devs tell people to " COME VOTE!! POLL!!" people just do because Anet told them to.

I think you severely overestimate the number of players who would do this if they don’t care much about the mode.

shrek.1046:

lil devils x.6071:

They don’t have to care about WvW to vote. Voting for the sake of voting is an actual thing when devs tell people to " COME VOTE!! POLL!!" people just do because Anet told them to.

I think you severely overestimate the number of players who would do this if they don’t care much about the mode.

I am guessing you didn’t read the posts on reddit… " although I am not a wvw player.." is a sure sign.

lil devils x.6071:

I am guessing you didn’t read the posts on reddit… " although I am not a wvw player.." is a sure sign.

the half a dozen guys who posted something along these lines were surely enough to turn a supermajority of Delete voters into a majority of Keep voters :^)

The hour per week player could describe me some weeks due to RL restrictions. I’m primarily a PvE player and usually join WvW to finish off my dailies, but end up still playing the game mode after they’re completed, often till I need to log off for the evening.

I’m currently just under rank 140 despite playing since headstart and only have about 1.6k player kills. I freely admit that I’m not an expert with the game mode, but I have fun playing it (when time permits) and have voted in every poll.

But if certain posters get their way, my voice will be excluded and my interest in the game mode will be diminished. In my view, all paying customers should have the opportunity to vote if they so wish, otherwise you risk alienating players who have an interest in the game mode but don’t meet whatever eligibility criteria is applied.

Besides, all this arguing over who is allowed to vote is ignoring the fact that ANet have confirmed the split of the recent poll results were consistent across the different levels of player WvW activity.

Sarrs.4831:

lil devils x.6071:

I am guessing you didn’t read the posts on reddit… " although I am not a wvw player.." is a sure sign.

the half a dozen guys who posted something along these lines were surely enough to turn a supermajority of Delete voters into a majority of Keep voters :^)

I am not saying that at all, however, this wasn’t just about one poll, I brought this up the very FIRST poll, they have known about the polling issues since the first poll and haven’t made any changes to ensure that the polls are representative of the people who keep WvW alive. Most people never comment, they just vote. SO even if you have half a dozen saying they voted and were not even WvW players, that means MANY more did so as well. That isn;t even getting into people telling me about voting 6 times..

In regards to just this poll, numerous players have already stated they either voted for DBL or didn’t vote at all due to Anet saying they wont get new maps unless they vote for the DBL. There was no point in voting , as people were only waiting on Alpine for Anet to make new maps as they said from the beginning so this was a lose/ lose situation regardless.

As I stated in my thread before they even made this poll, I didn’t want them to even offer the delete option at all , instead I wanted them to offer the " send DBL to Beta and make the needed changes then let players vote on when the map is ready for the live game" option instead.

My vote was for them to fix the map and since they cant fix the topography while it is in the live game, I wanted them to take it to beta and fix it so that it doesn’t stay broken forever… we just thought waiting 4 years to get spawn trebs fixed on ABL was bad… They were making us accept the map " as is" without making the needed repairs to even be able to get new maps at all.

Astraea.6075:

The hour per week player could describe me some weeks due to RL restrictions. I’m primarily a PvE player and usually join WvW to finish off my dailies, but end up still playing the game mode after they’re completed, often till I need to log off for the evening.

I’m currently just under rank 140 despite playing since headstart and only have about 1.6k player kills. I freely admit that I’m not an expert with the game mode, but I have fun playing it (when time permits) and have voted in every poll.

But if certain posters get their way, my voice will be excluded and my interest in the game mode will be diminished. In my view, all paying customers should have the opportunity to vote if they so wish, otherwise you risk alienating players who have an interest in the game mode but don’t meet whatever eligibility criteria is applied.

Besides, all this arguing over who is allowed to vote is ignoring the fact that ANet have confirmed the split of the recent poll results were consistent across the different levels of player WvW activity.

I think you misunderstand. You see, WvW was dying after HOT, Numerous guilds and massive amounts of players stopped playing all together due to HoT itself. People quit the game over the DBL being in the game and we had to beg them to come back and beg Anet to bring back the ABL so we could wait on this map until they made good WvW maps. IF they want to keep dedicated WvW players in the game at all, they need to start there first because players who do not play the game mode often are not going to know how to glitch into a keep because the map is broken, they are not going to know that certain classes cannot use their skills in many zones, that the keeps are buggy as hell.. Someone who just comes in now in then isn’t going to know what it will take to keep the dedicated wvw player playing at all. IF the players they keep play an hour or less a week, WvW is dead, that isn’t even WvW.

They need to start with what is required to keep dedicated players FIRST. Once that is resolved, they start taking wider information as to what will help draw in more players, but they need to test that with the dedicated players first to make sure it actually works in the mode, because the person playing an hour a week isn’t spending enough time in the mode to understand how all of the new elements work with everything else that exists in the game mode. I am not saying they should exclude your opinion entirely, I am saying they need to make sure they do what keeps the dedicated WvW players first, to ensure they maintain the current population as well as work on bringing player in.

I want new content as much ( if not more) than most. I want to make sure the content works for everyone and doesn’t make people leave instead. I am not saying that new voices should not be heard, I am saying that before it even gets to adding new voices, the old voices should be heard FIRST, because they know more about the subject than someone coming in who does not even understand how to refresh siege. Like I said previously, they need to get things voted on and tested by the dedicated wvw players first before it ever makes it to the wider community just to ensure it will work at all. IF it is a cool sounding idea that PvE players like but when implemented it breaks the game mode and everyone leaves that isn’t good for anyone.

The objective of content added should always be to:

• Increase game population
• Increase player satisfaction
• Increase game longevity

If it isn’t doing those things, it should not be added to the game and it certainly should not be " polled on" by polls given to people who are not even dedicated players to the game mode. If the dedicated players leave, why would the game mode stay running for those players that only play an hour now and then? The goal should be to bring in new players AND keep the ones you have. Not run them off for updates that are not even going to bring in new players? This isn’t how you do that.

You don’t ask someone who plays an hour a week to make a decision about a game mode that will make the player who plays 8+ hours a day of that game mode leave the game entirely.

Without the dedicated players, the game mode dies.

Is it just me, or is lil devils now blaming immigrants?* =P

*to the game mode

Rashagar.8349:

Is it just me, or is lil devils now blaming immigrants?* =P

*to the game mode

LMAO! Not at all silly :P It is just you. I am the one who says people should not be so hard in uplevels since they were all uplevels once themselves. I want to increase popualtion, that means bringing in many new players to the game. The goal should be to make content that keeps old players AND actually brings new player to the game mode. You don’t get that by making content that makes players leave instead . I think they should make sure all game content and items from past and present should be obtainable for new players and not have things that are obsoleted from the game for past players only.

Anet is responsible for the polls being whacked, not new players. I want them to make content that makes the game grow, and that means getting new player perspective as well, but they need to do it right so they do not lose players instead by letting the Veteran players make sure everything works properly in the game mode with the mechanics, the different play styles and the community and not just add stuff for the sake of adding stuff and disregard the consequences.

@lil devils x: I misunderstand nothing and was simply stating my situation to explain how potential restrictions on who can vote in these polls that have been suggested in this thread would impact my attitude to the game mode.

Basing your argument on the minimum limit of the range of WvW activity the poll respondents is completely spurious. I doubt the number of “hour per week or less” players voting in the poll had any significant impact on the final results and in my opinion, restricting the polls could make newer players feel discouraged from becoming more dedicated to the game mode.

I understand and appreciate the dedication of veteran WwW players and I know I owe a lot of the fun I’ve had playing WvW to them, but they are also able (and more likely) to participate in the polls. The polls are not the only place for dedicated players to give feedback either, as the subject of the latest poll proves, the devs are paying attention to the forums, where the majority of nuanced feedback would be provided by dedicated players.

Astraea.6075:

@lil devils x: I misunderstand nothing and was simply stating my situation to explain how potential restrictions on who can vote in these polls that have been suggested in this thread would impact my attitude to the game mode.

Basing your argument on the minimum limit of the range of WvW activity the poll respondents is completely spurious. I doubt the number of “hour per week or less” players voting in the poll had any significant impact on the final results and in my opinion, restricting the polls could make newer players feel discouraged from becoming more dedicated to the game mode.

I understand and appreciate the dedication of veteran WwW players and I know I owe a lot of the fun I’ve had playing WvW to them, but they are also able (and more likely) to participate in the polls. The polls are not the only place for dedicated players to give feedback either, as the subject of the latest poll proves, the devs are paying attention to the forums, where the majority of nuanced feedback would be provided by dedicated players.

It only impacts your opinion of the game mode if you know about the vote. How did you feel about the HOT surveys they emailed out to only certain players after Hot Came out? Why should they have to treat this any different? Most players didn’t even get HoT surveys, yet I didn’t see people saying " that makes me feel worse about the game mode". if they sent you a notice, then wouldn’t let you vote, that would be entirely different than just treating it as invite only from the beginning as they have repeatedly with other surveys.